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Ten Dead in Racist Shooting; Gunman Inspired by White Replacement Conspiracy; Shooting Fueled by Conspiracy Theory; Churchgoers Tie Up Gunman; Support in Congress for Finland Joining NATO; Russia Calls NATO Membership a Mistake. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired May 16, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:33]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A good Monday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

We begin this morning with just a heartbreaking mass shooting in America. Ten people murdered in cold blood over the weekend at a supermarket in Buffalo. The evidence shows clearly that they were targeted for one reason, because they were black. Their ages range from 32 to 86. Six of them were older than 60 years old.

This morning, we are learning more about those lives that were taken so callously, solely out of hate.

We're also learning more about the suspect. Authorities identifying him as this 18-year-old white man who apparently traveled more than three hours from his home to target that community. A 180-page manifesto attributed to the suspect was posted online just before the attack. It shows the meticulous planning that apparently went into a racist attack in just chilling detail.

We also learned that the suspect was already on law enforcement's radar. He had made a generalized threat as a high school student last year.

Tomorrow, President Biden will travel to Buffalo to meet with families of the victims. The terror in New York, sadly, just one of several mass shootings in recent days.

Let's begin with CNN's Victor Blackwell. He is on the scene in Buffalo.

Victor, the suspect currently faces one count of first-degree murder. That really a starting point here. Do we expect that federal hate crime charges will be added?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, very possible, Jim, considering all of the details and the evidence that you just detailed, if there is any case that could garner that type of -- those charges, this would be one of them.

We know from the U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland, he released a statement saying that this is being investigates as a hate crime, a racially motivated, violent, extremism.

I also just spoke with the Buffalo police commissioner, and he gave me some new details about just as tragic as this was with 13 people shot, 10 killed, that there is now evidence that the suspect intended for this massacre to extend beyond this single location.

Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COMMISSIONER JOSEPH GRAMAGLIA, BUFFALO POLICE DEPARTMENT: So there was evidence that was uncovered that he had plans, had he gotten out of here, to continue his rampage and continue shooting people. He had even spoken about possibly going to another store.

There's some documentation that said that he had -- if he got out of here, he was going to get in his car and continue to drive down Jefferson Avenue and continue doing the same thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: The commissioner says that they're also trying to piece together that day of reconnaissance. On Friday they say that he was here. They are now tracking his movements through their license plate recognition system. They also say that they have video of this suspect at other stores. They're looking for more to try to piece together potentially where else he wanted to go, where he was before the shooting.

I also spoke with the Erie County sheriff, John Garcia. Now, the suspect is in his custody in a county jail under suicide watch. We're told that there is a deputy watching him, cameras in his cell, that this suspect underwent a forensic mental health evaluation over the weekend. There have been no requests from family members to visit him.

And also that generalized threat that you mentioned that he made less than a year ago, we're told it was June of last year. The sheriff detailed that as a high school post-graduation project on murder/suicide. So that detail, of course, part of this investigation. That report that he completed, not enough to stop him from getting that gun that was purchased, according to the governor here, legally.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes. It was an AR-15. Once again, we saw the police carrying it, which has been used so often in mass shootings like this.

Victor Blackwell, thanks very much.

We are learning more about the ten victims who were killed in this attack. This morning a local pastor praised the bravery of retired police officer and Tops Supermarket security guard Aaron Salter Jr., pictured there. Salter now being hailed as a hero after he lost his life trying to defend the store right in the midst of the shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ULYSEES WINGO, PASTOR, ANTIOCH BAPTIST CHURCH: Had he not been there, more lives would have been lost. And the community knows Mr. Salter. I've had several encounters with him in my time as a councilmember and in my time shopping at this very Tops.

[09:05:03]

He was beloved by the community. He was a great person, a wonderful personality. And anyone who knows him would tell you nothing different.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: The guard tried to engage the shooter in the midst of this.

CNN senior correspondent Joe Johns, also in Buffalo this morning.

So, the security guard, one of the ten victims. What more do we know about the people who lost their lives here?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, except for the security guard, I would say soft targets. Ordinary, soft targets. Just a sampling, if you will, Jim, of the people who would be in an African American grocery store on a Saturday afternoon. There aren't a lot of African American grocery stores in many communities. Going about their business when this man burst in and starts shooting.

Tish James, the attorney general here in New York, talked yesterday at a memorial service about what she had heard from the family members of the victims, as well as people who were in the store at the time of the shooting.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LETITIA JAMES, NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL: They told me about the residents who pushed the mother with the baby to safety as this sick, demented, evil individual sought to shoot a woman with a baby. They talked to me -- this pastor talked to me about his neighbor who died. He preached about his neighbor who planted trees on her block and who cleaned up the block, and she, too, was struck down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: So, who were all of these people? There was a 20-year-old. There was somebody in their 30s. There were three people in their 50s. Three people in their 60s. Two in their 70s. And one woman who was 86 years old. That was Ruth Whitfield. She is the mother of the former fire commissioner here in the Buffalo area. And she was also, we're told, just coming away from seeing her husband, who was in a nursing home.

You already told us about the security guard. The other church ladies, very sad. The fact of the matter is, this was just an unconscionable attack by an individual who clearly was racist and cowardly as well. Jim.

SCIUTTO: I mean and full of false strength. Where is the strength in shooting unarmed people, many of them elderly? We see it so often.

Joe Johns, thank you so much.

Officials say this, that the gunman was inspired by what's known as the white replacement conspiracy theory. This is the baseless belief that liberals want immigrants and other people of color to replace native born, white Americans.

CNN's Sunlen Serfaty explains how that rhetoric has now made its way into the mainstream, into the halls of Congress as well.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. SCOTT PERRY (R-PA): For many Americans, what seems to be happening or what they believe right now is happening is what appears to them is we're replacing national born American, native born Americans to permanently transform the political landscape of this very nation.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The racist, anti- immigrant theory that says non-white immigrants are being brought to replace America's white population.

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): This administration wants complete open borders. And you have to ask yourself why. Is it really they want to remake the demographics of America?

J.D. VANCE (R), OHIO SENATE CANDIDATE: Democrat politicians who have decided that they can't win re-election in 2022 unless they bring in a large number of new voters to replace the voters that are already here. That's what this is about.

SERFATY: The white nationalist conspiracy theory is detailed in French writer Renaud Camus' 2011 book called "The Great Replacement." And elements of replacement theory appear to have motivated some of the most heinous recent mass murders in the U.S. and around the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: And we saw in that manifesto, rhetoric echoing what we've heard sometimes in the halls of Congress and elsewhere.

Joining me now to discuss, Scott Richman. He's the Anti-Defamation League regional director for New York and New Jersey. Also with me is Bakari Sellers, CNN political commentator, former South Carolina state representative.

Scott, I want to begin with you because some of the words you see in that manifesto are words that, well, you can hear from sitting lawmakers. We certainly hear on right wing media. Just speak to people at home who may not be aware of what exactly the replacement theory is. How dangerous is it for prominent people with big pedestals, big bully pulpits here to repeat this kind of rhetoric, and can you draw a direct line between that rhetoric and the kind of shooting we saw this weekend?

SCOTT RICHMAN, ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE REGIONAL DIRECTOR FOR NEW YORK AND NEW JERSEY: So, thank you so much for having me on.

The great replacement theory, as was said, is a heinous conspiracy theory that speaks about this idea that non-whites are coming into this country to replace the white community.

[09:10:00]

It's terribly dangerous. We've seen a straight line between the attacks in Poway, in Pittsburgh, in El Paso, in Christchurch. In fact, the manifesto that was put forth by this gunman, 180-page manifesto that he posted online prior to this shooting actually lifted pieces from the Christchurch manifesto. So, this is a terribly dangerous -- terribly dangerous theory that had been on the fringes. It had been on the fringes of the white supremacist movement. And it has slowly made its way closer to the mainstream. And you see the violent results of that.

SCIUTTO: No question.

And, by the way, if folks at home are watching this and say, well, this is just a point that Democrats make about Republicans, I want to quote a tweet from a former number three in the Republican House leadership, Liz Cheney, about this very issue. She tweeted this morning, the House GOP leadership has enabled white nationalism, white supremacy and anti-Semitism. History has taught us that what begins with words ends in far worse. GOP leaders must renounce and reject these views and those who hold them.

The fact is, Bakari Sellers, they are not and, in fact, giving more, not less, leeway, over the last several years. Is the -- is the -- in the barest political terms, are Republicans unlikely to confront this because it works for them at the ballot box?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean the answer to that question is, yes. But, Jim, we have to look a lot deeper than that because, one this is not an issue of both sides. This is not an issue of, well, this is just political talk. This theory is just like another theory this or that. No, we're talking about racism. We're talking about this country's original sin.

And what happens in the tragedy in this is that it's a cycle. This is who America is. We have this racist attack. We had outrage. We had thoughts and prayers. We had political back and forth. And then we have an entire cycle where it happens over and over and over again. And nobody does anything about it.

One of the things that was left off the list, which is near and dear to my heart, of course, is Charleston, with Mother Emanuel. I remember reading those text messages and tweets that there was a shooting at Mother Emanuel where somebody came into a church and killed black people simply because of the color of their skin. The problem that we have now, Jim, is that you have people like George

Wallace. The difference is, George Wallace now has a Brooks Brothers suit and a prime time TV show and they're able to espouse this nonsense. They're able to espouse this racism. This gentleman had "Nigers" on the barrel of his gun as he killed the best of us. He killed the ladies who sit in the front row of the church and they wear the big hats. And when you walk up to them and you hug them, they smell like Chanel No. 5, and you'll smell like that all day long. They give you the little pieces of candy in church and pop your hand when you're talking too loud. He killed the best of us all because of the color of their skin.

And so Republicans are going to make this any other issue. But until Republicans -- and, face it, this country -- and let's be extremely clear, white folk in this country combat racism, anti-Semitism, xenophobia, bigotry. Until we have that honest discussion, nothing else truly matters.

SCIUTTO: Scott, I know you have conversations with politicians of both parties on these issues, white supremacy and anti-Semitism. When you issue warnings like the one you just issued here about the direct connection between rhetoric like this and acts of violence like we saw this weekend, do they listen to you?

RICHMAN: The political parties listen to some extent. I mean we're hoping that acts like the Domestic Terrorism Prevention Act will be passed. We've called upon President Biden to convene a summit on hate crimes and extremism. Certainly, people are terribly disturbed by this. The question is, will they take action and can they take action? We live in a terribly polarized moment, unfortunately. A moment where people are divided, where it's very hard to get things done.

But, you know, with acts like this, we need to move this forward. This is an attack not just on the black community. You hear a lot about the black community being attacked. It's an attack on all of us. It's an attack on all of our values. And this man had no love for Jews, for Latinos, for Muslims, for many, many groups. And we all need to be united against this.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Or, indeed, love for the theory of this country, right, which is that it's not the color of your skin or where you come from, but you're a citizen when you make that oath to be a citizen.

Scott Richman, Bakari Sellers, thanks so much to both of you.

SELLERS: Thank you.

RICHMAN: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, the devastation, the sadness in New York was not the only mass shooting in this country over the weekend. In downtown Milwaukee, 17 people were shot Friday night just blocks away from the arena where the Milwaukee Bucks were competing in the NBA playoffs. Seventeen victims in that shooting range in age from 15 to 47. Thankfully, all of those victims are expected to survive.

[09:15:03]

Ten people taken into custody after that shooting.

Two other shootings happened in the same night in that area injuring four additional people.

And in Harris County, Texas, just north of Houston, a shooting at a packed flea market on Sunday left two people dead, several more hurt. The sheriff says the incident stemmed from an argument. They're still looking for witnesses and for video.

Didn't stop there. In California, police are investigating the motive behind a mass shooting at a church in that case. We're learning the worshippers were able to fight back. They hog-tied the gunman with an extension cord. They likely prevented more deaths. One person, though, was killed, five others wounded.

CNN national correspondent Camila Bernal is live on the scene of the Orange County shooting. It's hard to keep up, I know.

Camilla, so this was after a church banquet when this shooting took place. What do we know about what happened here?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Jim.

Yes, it is hard to believe. And, first of all, it's so important to point out that these churchgoers prevented more bloodshed. Brave, possibly men and women of this congregation.

In terms it of the timeline here, this happened after the morning service at a luncheon. The first call went out at 1:26 p.m. And according to authorities, what happened here was that these churchgoers were able to stop that shooter.

The call was reported at Geneva Presbyterian Church, but that lunch was being held by the sister church, which is Irvine Taiwanese Presbyterian Church. And authorities say they responded very quickly, but still those churchgoers were a lot faster than authorities.

Here's what the undersheriff said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNDERSHERIFF JEFF HALLOCK, ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA, SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: We believe a group of churchgoers detained him and hog tied his legs with an extension cord and confiscated at least two weapons from him.

It's safe to say had people not intervened, it could have been much worse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERNAL: Now, we are still waiting to hear on the status of those victims. We have not heard who that person who was killed is at the moment. We're waiting for a press conference that's expected later on this morning.

In terms of the shooter, we know he's an Asian man in his 60s. We do not have a motive at the moment. And that is going to be key in terms of charges, whether or not he faces federal charges. Hopefully we'll get those answers from authorities.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Camila Bernal, there at the scene of one of the shootings over the weekend. Thanks so much.

Just ahead we're going to speak to a close friend of Katherine Massey. She is one of the ten victims of the Buffalo shooting. There she is. Hear how she and others advocated to bring that particular supermarket to the community. It was important there.

Plus, Ukrainian forces post a video of them reaching all the way to the Russian border near the northeastern city of Kharkiv. There's still intense fighting elsewhere. We're going to be live in Ukraine with an update on battlefield advances, including that remarkable one by Ukrainian forces.

And, later, the FDA commissioner lays out how soon the baby formula shortage could be over and whether parents will be able to import brands, in the meantime, from other countries.

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[09:22:38]

SCIUTTO: This morning, the Senate majority -- minority leader, rather, Mitch McConnell, is leading a group of Republican senators on a visitors to Helsinki, Finland. The U.S. delegation meeting with the president of inland as the country's parliament debates whether to join NATO. A lot of support there. The GOP leader calls on both Finland and Sweden -- calls their addition important to the alliance should they go ahead and become members.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): I think I'm safe in saying there is strong bipartisan support in the United States for admission of Finland to the world's most successful military alliance.

Finland brings a lot to the alliance. Frankly, their participation strengthens the alliance significantly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Joining me now, CNN Europe editor Nina dos Santos. She's in Stockholm, Sweden. Of course, Sweden also on the list to join now.

And for both these countries, I mean it's such a remarkable turn. They've resisted this for years. I mean, Finland, we even have a word for it, the Finlandization of places, right, to be neutral. So Finland choosing not to. I wonder, the Turkish president expressed some hesitation about this end of last week. Might be related more to where you're standing in Sweden than to Finland. But do we know if that's a long-term roadblock to this or just a short-term one?

NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN EUROPE EDITOR: Well, EU diplomats, NATO diplomats were all being very, very clear about this, including Antony Blinken of the United States, that they believe that this is a surmountable obstacle to the attempts to join NATO by countries like Finland, but as you pointed out, in particular Sweden. Sweden has taken in a number of people from the Kurdish community that obviously Turkey has an issue with. And that is one of the main bumbers (ph) for President Erdogan. But it's believed that with some shuttle diplomacy, they can probably get over that issue.

In fact, the Swedish defense secretary is heading over to the United States to meet his counterparts over in Washington, D.C., this very week. And then we've got delegations also from various foreign ministries here in Sweden that are going to be heading towards Ankara to mee with the Turks to discuss this issue as well.

That has very much been played down here in Stockholm as just in the last hour we've had the government and also the leader of the opposition announcing that Sweden will now formally submit its bid to join NATO within the next, perhaps, day, tomorrow, or in about three days' time.

[09:25:06]

What we've seen is this very highly choreographed accession process, if you like, that's happening at lightning speed. Spearheaded, yes, largely by Finland but with Sweden following suit because essentially Sweden cannot afford, its prime minister says, to be in a position where it's the only nonaligned country in this sensitive part of Europe.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: No question. And, gosh, you look at that map. It will now extend virtually across Europe.

Nina dos Santos, thanks so much.

Joining me now to discuss what this all means, CNN national security analyst Steve Hall. He's the former CIA chief of Russia operations.

Steve, good to have you here.

First just quickly, I'm curious if you share that sense we're hearing from Blinken and others, and as Nina was just noting there, that Erdogan's pushback is temporary here, more related to Sweden hosting the PKK, a Kurdish nationalist group in Sweden, than about Russia and Finland and Russia's reaction.

STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, absolutely, Jim. I mean I think that this is an opportunity for the Turks to basically say, look, we have some things that we'd like to get out of this. We have a little bit of leverage because we're members. And so, yes, we'd like to see some things change. But, at the end of the day, I don't think it's going to slow up either of these countries actually joining NATO.

SCIUTTO: OK. So let's look at the significance of this. Finland has an 830-mile border with Russia. It will more than double the border between the alliance and Russia here. And, crucially, it puts NATO around Russia's northern access to the sea, right? I mean the reason they went into Crimea in the first place in 2014 is they wanted to have their southern access down there. Now the northern access. What does that mean? What does that mean for Russia? What does it mean for the alliance?

HALL: You know, it's hard to imagine this being really any worse for Russia, and specifically with regard to Putin, because, of course, as we've all said for so long, his goal was the weakening of the west and the weakening of NATO. And, really, just a couple of years ago, the -- you know, the west was, indeed, very divided.

But this is -- you're right, this is significant. Eight hundred miles plus border now directly on or soon to be on a NATO country. That's just an incredible defeat for Putin. And you just have to wonder, how could he have made such a significant miscalculation, which no doubt his inner circle will notice and probably question his leadership on.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes, no question. I mean we all imagined -- well, not all of us, but many imagine Putin as ten feet tall and the brilliant strategist under every circumstance. Clearly here no.

But I want to ask you then, does that send -- we know about Putin. Some have even referred to it as paranoia about the NATO alliance, its threats against him. Is a Russia that is further not less surrounded by NATO more likely to carry out acts of aggression like we saw in Ukraine or less likely to? I mean is this deterrent from their perspective or does it poke the bear?

HALL: I think I'm going to go with deterrent on this. I sat through so many meetings, Jim, when I was in the federal government about, well, you know, let's not push Russia too far. Let's try to integrate them into the west. Whether it's the World Trade Organization or even parts of NATO. And what resulted was a war with Georgia in 2008 where they sliced off the top of that country, the initial war in Ukraine, which resulted in the annexation of Crimea, and now, of course, the second war, which is, you know -- their stated goal is to take over the entire country. So, clearly, appeasement, clearly trying to integrate them into the west has not worked. And I think the only thing that is left for us is containment, which the sanctions are really the beginning of.

SCIUTTO: OK, so the other theory that failed, right, was this idea that engagement via business would help develop long-term friendly relations between the countries. And McDonald's, not the biggest company, but certainly perhaps the most symbolic here.

And you and I remember, you know, when McDonald's went in there some 30 years ago, boy, this was a sign. The Berlin Wall had clearly fallen. You know, here comes a warm and fuzzy age of brotherhood. It's over now. What does that mean? Is that a lasting break with the west there?

HALL: You know, it -- yes, you and I were both there, Jim, and, you know, you saw those Russians coming in, you know, to get Big Macs. And, you know, it sounds sort of silly. It sounds sort of pop culture- ish, but it was really more than that. It was, I think, a lot of young Russians said, OK, now we're coming out of Soviet times. Now we are going to be part of the west. And there was a brief window when, I think, Russia perhaps could have pulled that off until the guy named Vladimir Putin showed up and took it in the other direction. The business ties, the attempts to integrate into the west, you know, none of that has worked. Indeed Russia has taken advantage of all of those things and tried to use them against the west. And so it's just, you know, it's game over, I think, for Russia in terms of, you know, good relationship with west -- with the west at this point.

SCIUTTO: Yes, it's a sad -- and, frankly, it's a sad moment for all the hope those 30 years ago.

HALL: Yes, it is.

SCIUTTO: Steve Hall, thanks so much.

HALL: Sure.

SCIUTTO: Coming up on the other major story we're following this morning, we're going to speak to a close friend of Katherine Massey. She was a 72-year-old victim of Saturday's shooting in Buffalo. The two knew each other for decades. We're going to hear about their friendship and their work to make their community better, after a quick break.

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