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Online Radicalization; Investigation Into Buffalo Massacre Continues. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired May 16, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:21]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: I'm Victor Blackwell in Buffalo.

Police here say that the suspect in that racist rampage that left 10 people did planned to continue his shooting spree beyond the Tops market if he had not been stopped. Now, authorities say the suspect, this 18-year-old white man, drove more than 200 miles to this neighborhood to carry out the attack.

A lot of people in the community here and across the country are rattled by another mass shooting apparently driven by white supremacy.

CAMEROTA: So, President Biden and the first lady are headed to Buffalo tomorrow. And the tributes are already pouring in for the victims who were killed, all black Americans ranging in age from 32 to 86.

The former Buffalo fire commissioner and son of one of the murder victims, Ruth Whitfield, speaking out against the hate and racism that investigators say motivated this shooter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARNELL WHITFIELD JR., SON OF SHOOTING VICTIM: What are we supposed to do with all of this anger, with all of this pain?

I can tell you, this was not an easy decision for us to go public with this at a time -- we're a private family. This was not easy for us. But how else could we honor our mother? How else can we uphold the things that she put in us, the things she believed in? How else can we do that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: I mean, what else are we supposed to do, as he says, Victor, with all of this pain?

And I know that you're learning more about what the shooter had planned.

BLACKWELL: Yeah, we learned this from the Buffalo police commissioner.

He told me this morning that there's some documentation that the shooter had plans to possibly continue shooting at another location, to leave here and then go on to a superstore. We know they have that 180-page document they're looking through.

They believe the suspect was also in Buffalo the day before the shooting, did some reconnaissance at the Tops Friendly Market store. We're also learning more from that screed, 180 pages, that the shooter, police believe, posted online.

In it, the self-described white supremacist allegedly details how he had been radicalized by reading online message boards. He also believed in the false theory of the Great Replacement, the belief that white Americans are being -- quote, unquote -- "replaced" by people of other races in this country, this political conspiracy theory.

The accused gunman was also known to authorities, we have learned, after making what was described as a generalized threat to his high school in June of last year. We also know that, according to a spokesperson at the school district near Conklin -- and we're getting this from reporter Brian Todd -- that it mentioned murder/suicide during his high school year.

We're also learning something from the sheriff on the gunman's -- alleged gunman's, I should say, mental state.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN GARCIA, ERIE COUNTY, NEW YORK, SHERIFF: When he was taken into custody, he had his AR-15 under his chin, suicidal. So we have him on suicide watch, which means we have an Erie County sheriff's jail deputy watching him at all times.

We also have video cameras in his cell. And he's in a unit with no commingling with other incarcerated individuals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: All right, let me bring it now CNN correspondent Shimon Prokupecz, also here in Buffalo.

Shimon, we now know about these past interactions with law enforcement, based, one of them, on that mention of murder/suicide in high school.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, it was a very -- described as kind of a generalized threat to us.

And based off of that, the school contacted the state police. And the state police went to his home. And then they did what they said they were supposed to do. They took him to the hospital, where he received a mental health evaluation. He was there for about a day or day-and-a- half, according to investigators.

Victor, I spoke to the police commissioner here yesterday after their press conference about that. And he sort of indicated that there was really not much they can do. There was this concern over his mental state, his mental health. They took him in. They did what they were supposed to do.

And then, as to whether or not there was any kind of follow-up, he couldn't tell us. He really doesn't know what happened after that. And because of privacy laws, really, there's not much more people can tell us about this, Victor.

[14:05:09]

BLACKWELL: So, we know that, right now, he is being held here in Erie County on one count of first-degree murder. He's pleaded not guilty.

But there will likely be more state charges, potentially federal charges as well. What comes next?

PROKUPECZ: Right.

And those are going to be really significant charges. They are going to have to do with federal hate crimes. We're told that can come in the next couple of days. The U.S. attorney here yesterday said that they were working on those charges. They had a couple of things they needed to do, but we should expect those charges.

One of the significant things in those charges, that the U.S. -- the attorney general, the United States attorney general, is going to have to make a decision on whether or not the alleged shooter is going to face the death penalty.

So that is going to be significant. It's also going to lay out in greater detail the allegations and how the alleged shooter went about in planning for this attack and the other things that were said during the attack. So we will learn more once the Department of Justice files their charges, Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right, Shimon Prokupecz, thank you for the reporting.

CAMEROTA: Yeah, so, Victor, as always, the numbers are sickening and staggering; 10 people were killed in this massacre.

The families and the Buffalo community now dealing with so much raw grief. And, Victor, as you well know, most of these folks were just doing their regular grocery runs, things like buying cupcakes for a birthday party, when they were killed.

So tell us what you have learned about some of them.

BLACKWELL: Yeah, I mean, it really does, Alisyn, point out just how terrorizing it is for this community, that they're going out to do the ordinary things that we all do.

You go into a grocery store. It is a cross-section of any community. You mentioned the person who was buying those cupcakes, his name Andre Mackneil, we have learned from local people here. His son's third birthday, that celebration was on Saturday. His daddy never came home because he was killed at this grocery store.

Roberta Drury, she was just 32, the youngest victim killed. Her family remembers her as someone who cared for her brother who had leukemia, also worked at the family's restaurant. We also learned about Geraldine Talley. And she was a woman her family says was the life of the party. She planned the family reunion. She kept everybody together.

And now they will have to move on without her. And also, of course, we have talked about 86-year-old Ruth Whitfield. She's the mother of the former fire commissioner here. She was someone who was on her way, as she did every day, to visit her husband at a nursing home. And she never made it, because she was killed here.

Now, I mentioned Geraldine Talley.

Let me bring in Lakesha Chapman. She is the niece of Geraldine Talley, one of the 10 victims of this shooting.

First, my condolences, our condolences for your loss, your family's loss. And I know you wrote that you really want people to know who your aunt was. So let's start with how she lived, not how she died. And tell me about her.

LAKESHA CHAPMAN, NIECE OF SHOOTING VICTIM: Thank you.

My aunt was generous. She was loving. She was sweet, honest, authentic. And she -- again, she was the life of the party. She was the glue of our family. And for her to be taken and removed, her life to be removed in the manner that it happened is disgusting.

BLACKWELL: What has this community lost with the loss of your aunt?

Because she was important to more than just your family. She was a puzzle piece here in this community in Buffalo.

CHAPMAN: That's a great question, not just the community, but the world.

We are -- the loss and -- because of this tragedy, because of what we're dealing with right now, my aunt was a part of an ecosystem, as far as marginalized people, black and brown people. And we are now forced once again to deal with the results that happen from this terrorist attack.

This was one of the only stores in the area that my aunt can shop at. And the other community, the people in this community, we are affected by that now. And she was simply just shopping. It was a Saturday errand. And that basic commodity of life, food, clothing and shelter, was removed from not just my aunt, but from everyone in that community.

[14:10:01]

BLACKWELL: Yes. The mayor, who I have spoken with several times, said that this was a

food desert before this came here. And now they are working to try to transport people to other grocery stores. It's a commentary that there's only one grocery store, now that people don't have -- they can't rely on that.

But let me ask you about something else the mayor said. He said that, while people are grieving, that this shooting, this massacre should not change this community. Do you think it has changed permanently this community?

CHAPMAN: This will change everything. This has changed everything.

And my question that I pose next to the mayor and the other officials, how do we change the legislation so that this doesn't happen to anyone else in our communities? How do we -- and how do we -- how do we go forward? How do we move forward from this? And it can't be another protest. It can't be another march with our fists in the air -- in the air.

It can't be another intense amount of interviews that become distant memories in another two weeks.

I am numb because of the death of my aunt. I am enraged because she was removed from our family while she was handling her simple errands. But I am more -- I am ready to see change in our communities, because we can't continue to live like this. My family is scared to simply leave their home because of the zip code that they live in and because of the color of their skin.

So I ask the mayor again, what do we do, so that we can move forward, so that we can feel safe in our own community, and not only feel safe. However, also, we have someone who left the massacre behind, and he was escorted out gingerly from Buffalo police.

So, this is layered. There's a lot. This is very visceral. And we're all feeling it right now.

BLACKWELL: Yeah, you bring that up. And I read your -- I think it was a Facebook post in which you said that this suspect was gingerly handled as he left.

And I have heard that from several people in this community, the questions about how he was handled at the end of this. What we heard from the police commissioner was that he didn't, essentially -- I'm paraphrasing here -- didn't turn the gun on officers. He didn't turn the gun on them. And they were able to convince him to put it down. So that's why there was no need to fire shots at him.

I see your physical reaction. Put that into words for me, please.

CHAPMAN: I -- so, two things, right?

I -- if anyone knows me -- and I go by Divine (ph), my middle name Divine. And I focus on peace. And I focus on love and harmony. So be clear that I'm not stating that I want any other human, black, white, regardless of their race or ethnicity, harmed. So I'm not stating that the police officer should have harmed this individual.

What I'm stating is that, in our communities -- I have an 18-year-old son. I have to pray over him before he walks out of our home because he's black and 18 in America. If he doesn't have his license, or if he forgot, or maybe he's speeding, or maybe -- whatever the case -- or maybe he's doing nothing, a taillight is out, and he wasn't aware of it.

We are endangered species in this country. So I'm not saying that they should have murdered this man because of the massacre that he left behind. But I'm stating that we feel the effects when we're doing merely nothing.

And the fact that -- as you paraphrase, the fact that we're stating it's because we are -- we're running away from the cops, or we are defending ourselves. We're scared. That's what you do when you're in fear. You run, because our people are being shot at from the police departments for no reason. So, yes, we are running. Yes, we're putting our hands up in fear. And we're still being treated like cattle.

BLACKWELL: Lakesha Chapman, I thank you for -- this is a very vulnerable moment.

And for sharing it with me and using this to talk about your aunt, who you lost just two days ago, I thank you very much -- Alisyn, back to you.

CHAPMAN: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: I mean, Victor, could anybody ever state it more plainly than Lakesha there, who says, it can't just be another march, it can't just be another interview. Something has to change.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

CAMEROTA: I know that we all feel that way today.

So, police say that the suspect in the Buffalo shooting cited white Replacement Theory as a driving factor in the deadly spree. How that idea went from fringe to mainstream in just a few years.

And gun violence plagued the entire country this weekend. We have details on the mass shooting at a California church, where the worshipers fought back.

That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:19:03]

BLACKWELL: Listen, we do this every Monday in America, recount the numbers of mass shootings over the weekend.

Buffalo was not the only -- only community reeling from gun violence right now. The Gun Violence Archive reports that 128 people were killed, 297 others wounded in more than 300 shootings across the U.S. just this weekend.

CAMEROTA: It's incredible, Victor.

In downtown Milwaukee, 17 people were shot Friday night just blocks away from where the Bucks were competing in the NBA playoffs; 10 people were taken into custody there.

In Harris County, Texas -- that's just north of Houston -- a shooting at a crowded flea market on Sunday left two people dead and several more injured.

And then, in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, seven people were injured in what police call a large exchange of gunfire at three separate crime scenes. Officers believe the shootings were not random acts of violence.

[14:20:01]

And then there's what happened in California. Police have identified the suspect who stormed a church in Laguna Woods on Sunday, killing one person and injuring five others. Police say the churchgoers tackled and hog-tied the gunman, then waited for police to arrive.

CNN's Stephanie Elam is live for us in Orange County.

So, what more do we know about what happened there, Stephanie?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We have a few more details about this, Alisyn.

For one thing, we know that this is a 68-year-old man with a Las Vegas residence, as far as we know. His name is David Chou. And they're saying that they're trying to figure out if there's any connections between this man and the congregants who were here, and if there was a local address.

All of that unclear at this point. But what we can tell you is that the people who were injured yesterday, they range -- their age range is 66, 75, 82, 86-year-old woman and 92-year-old, all of the men, except for that one woman. We know one person lost their life. So this man is now facing one felony murder count and five counts of attempted murder as well.

We also know that there were 30 to 40 people that were in attendance. And this was the Irvine Taiwanese Presbyterian Church. They worship here at the Geneva Presbyterian Church. And so they were there at a luncheon when all of this happened.

We just were able to speak with a councilwoman, a local councilwoman, who has several connections here to this church, and we're getting more of an idea of what went on in the church to stop this from being worse than it already was. Take a listen to what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PEGGY HUANG, FORMER MEMBER OF CHURCH WHERE SHOOTING TOOK PLACE: I heard from one of the congregants, who told me that everyone was taking pictures with the pastor. It was a luncheon to welcome him back.

And what -- after the gunman started shooting, he was reloading his gun. And that was an opportunity for the pastor to strike him with a chair, and everybody else tackled him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ELAM: It's really quite phenomenal, what they were able to do.

Apparently, by striking the chair, they were able to get two handguns away. At least, we have learned that from the sheriff's department. And they hog-tied him with an electrical cord to stop this from becoming a worse situation.

It was already bad here. But the county -- Orange County sheriff's saying that they really were heroic in their efforts to stop this man from shooting any more of the worshipers that were here yesterday -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: It's just remarkable, I mean, that they had to take it into their own hands. This is what it now requires when you go to church on a Sunday.

Stephanie Elam, thank you very much.

BLACKWELL: All right, back here in Buffalo, officials say that the gunman was inspired by the so-called white replacement conspiracy theory. It's a baseless belief that white people are being slowly, but intentionally replaced by minorities and immigrants.

Daryl Johnson is a former domestic terrorism analyst at the Department of Homeland Security. He's also the author of "Hateland: A Hard Look at America's Extremist Heart."

Daryl, thank you for being with me.

Let's start here with this conspiracy theory that has really been embraced by -- there's nothing really other as to call them by these domestic terrorists in these mass shootings that we have seen. Why have they kind of coalesced and have glommed onto this theory?

DARYL JOHNSON, FORMER LEAD ANALYST, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Yes, this theory goes back over a century.

There was a movement called eugenics that talked about how certain races were superior to other races, particularly the white race. And so this is just the latest iteration. It's called the Great Replacement Theory.

And it's a conspiracy that, like you said, basically says that minorities are overtaking America, and that immigrants are coming into this country at such a rate that it's changing voting districts and things of this nature. So it's been around for a very long time. And what's kind of drawn them to it more recently is, there was a

French -- a French professor that put together a book that talked about this replacement that was going on allegedly in France. And so that's where it's gotten more attention. And then, of course, you have the shooter at Christchurch, as well as the El Paso shooter here in the United States, referencing this.

And so white supremacists are kind of latching onto it. When a new shooting happens and they put forth a manifesto, like this Buffalo shooter, they reference this white replacement -- this Great Replacement Theory.

CAMEROTA: Daryl, as you know, Tucker Carlson on FOX is a big purveyor of this philosophy. He talks about it a lot, so -- on his show. So here's a couple of examples.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: We have never seen demographic change like this. It's roughly the equivalent of a brand-new city of Chicago every year, a city populated entirely by poor people with limited education who can't speak English. And the question is, how is it good for America?

[14:25:00]

Where exactly is all this criminal white supremacy, this right-wing domestic terrorism that poses -- quote -- "the most lethal terrorist threat in the homeland"? Where is it?

Well, of course, it doesn't exist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: It does exist, as we know from talking to the families of the victims here today.

And so what's the effect, Daryl, of people like Tucker Carlson mainstreaming this?

JOHNSON: Yeah, so that's a good point.

Another contributing factor is the mainstreaming of these conspiracy theories, whether it's the Great Replacement Theory, QAnon, some of these other things. So, politicians, media personalities, other leaders need to take note that your words have impacts and effects on others, and may motivate someone to violence.

BLACKWELL: Is there a profile that is potentially more susceptible to accepting this?

And I ask this because we have learned from this 180-page racist statement that the author says that he was radicalized online, born online, found it, and then embraced it.

How does a person get to this point by finding something they find online?

JOHNSON: Well, there's a whole wide range of ways people can be introduced to extremism.

What's particularly concerning about this case is, we're finding that younger and younger people are being exposed to these things. And I attribute some of it to the pandemic, the fact that many of us are more in our homes, online, surfing social media.

There's also technology out there that actually feeds more and more information as you conduct searches, and kind of force-feeds these types of things if you're searching for conspiracy theories. So there's just a wide range of factors that contribute to somebody radicalizing.

But what's most concerning is the fact that younger and younger people are looking at violence as a way to avenge their personal grievances.

CAMEROTA: Daryl Johnson, thank you very much for sharing your expertise on this.

Now let's go to Ukraine. Ukrainian forces appear to be making gains and say they have reached the Russian border near Kharkiv. So, what comes next?

And Finland and Sweden are moving closer to joining NATO. The Kremlin warns that move would have far-reaching consequences. We have the details ahead.

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[14:30:00]