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William Taylor, Former U.S. Ambassador To Ukraine, Discusses Russia And Turkey Reacting To Finland, Sweden Applying To Join NATO & Russian War In Ukraine; Ny Governor Demands Social Media "Be More Vigilant" With Online Content After Buffalo Shooting; Vivek Murthy, U.S. Surgeon General, Discusses Baby Formula Shortage, Gottlieb Saying FDA Should Have Acted Sooner & Gun Violence. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired May 16, 2022 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:32:15]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Ukrainian forces are advancing in northern Ukraine as Russians retreat from the region. One Ukrainian unit north of Kharkiv says it was reclaimed territory and reached the Russian border. But Russia is ramping up attacks in the east.

Meanwhile, just one day after Finland announced it would apply for NATO membership, Sweden is following suit.

Russia's deputy foreign minister said adding the countries to NATO would be a, quote, "grave mistake."

Joining us now is former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, William Taylor. He's also vice president for Russia and Europe at the Institute for Peace.

Ambassador Taylor, always great to see you.

So when the deputy foreign minister of Russia says there will be, quote, "far-reaching consequences" for Sweden and Finland if they join NATO, what does that mean?

WILLIAM TAYLOR, VICE PRESIDENT FOR RUSSIA AND EUROPE, INSTITUTE FOR PEACE & FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Not very much, Alisyn. It doesn't mean very much at all.

The Finns and the Swedes have made the determination that living near or next to the Russians is dangerous. Other nations have come to the same conclusion.

And so the Finns and the Swedes have indicated they're ready to apply to NATO. That's how they're going to secure themselves.

And there's not much that the Russians can do. They can bluster and they can oppose.

But this is a decision for the Finns and the Swedes in the first instance and then all NATO members in the second instance, and the Russians don't get a say.

CAMEROTA: That leads us to Turkey because Turkey does get a say. And Turkey's President Erdogan doesn't like this idea. In fact, calls it not a positive step.

Can Turkey stand in the way of making this happen?

TAYLOR: It can, but it probably won't. It's got some domestic issues having to do with the PKK, this terrorist organization, an organization that they call terrorists, that have some people living in Sweden and Finland. So he's got some domestic issues.

I agree with Secretary of State Blinken who says he's very confident that the Turks in the end will not stand in the way.

CAMEROTA: So you think that they'll come around? Even though they have, as you say, this big issue with PKK, you think they --- I mean, why would they come around?

TAYLOR: Why would they not? They'll be outliers within the alliance. They've already got problems within the alliance.

There are ways that they can address this issue. This is not a big problem.

The Turks have problems of their own. They've been caught between the Russians and NATO. They bought some equipment from the Russians. And now they're kind of embarrassed by it.

So I don't think the Turks will be standing in the way of an expansion that will improve the security of all of Europe.

The Swedes and the Finns as part of NATO will be a benefit for all of Europe, including Turkey. In the end, they won't stand in the way.

[14:35:05]

Let's talk about the status of Ukraine today. So Ukrainian soldiers are making strides in the north, the Russians are retreating. The Russians are making strides in the east.

What does the future look like? What do the next few weeks or couple of months look like in Ukraine right now?

TAYLOR: It doesn't look good for the Russians. The Russians, as you say, they've already well earlier have been pushed out of Kyiv. They made an attempt to come down and invade the capital and got pushed all the way back into Russia and Belarus.

And now they're trying to they next went and tried to take over Kharkiv, the second-largest city. Now, just exactly as you say, Alisyn, the Ukrainians have pushed him back away from Kharkiv, all the way to the Russian border.

Now, the Russians are trying to take the units, the Russian military units that have been beaten up in Kyiv and beaten up in Kharkiv and moving these same units all the way around to the east, where they are being asked, these units are being asked to join the fight again.

They're not making progress in the east. They are making some progress some places and losing cities or towns in others. So the Russians are not making progress anywhere you look.

So over the next several weeks, the Ukrainians get stronger, because more weapons come in from the United States, more of this heavy artillery, more of the aircraft, in particular the helicopters come in. The Ukrainians get stronger while the Russians get weaker.

The sanctions continue to hamper them. They're not able to replace their precision-guided weapons that they've shot most of already.

So the Russians get weaker and weaker. Their soldiers are more and more tired. They don't have any more soldiers to throw into the fight, where Ukrainians do. The Ukrainians have volunteers lining up at their recruitment stations.

So it gets bad, it continues to get bad and worse for the Russians.

CAMEROTA: Ambassador William Taylor, thank you.

TAYLOR: Thank you, Alisyn.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: New York's governor is calling out social media platforms for inspiring the alleged Buffalo shooter and allowing the video of the attack to circulate. We have new reporting next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D-NEW YORK): I'm calling out the social media platforms where this hate can be spewed and people are learning how to create guns and violence and weapons.

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[14:42:17]

BLACKWELL: The suspected Buffalo shooter wore tactical gear, had a camera on him and livestreamed the rampage on the social media site Twitch.

According to Twitch, the video was removed two minutes after the violence began, but copies continued to spread.

Consider this. Facebook says, in the 24 hours after Saturday's attack, they've removed 1.5 million copies of it.

The incident is, once again, raising questions about the responsibility of social media companies.

Brian Stelter, CNN's chief media correspondent and anchor of "RELIABLE SOURCES," as well.

Brian New York's Governor Kathy Hochul blames social media companies for allowing hate to be spread on the platform.

Aren't the companies shirking some responsibility here?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT & CNN HOST, "RELIABLE SOURCES": The companies say they are trying their best. They say they are going to try to go keep up as copies of this murder video are recirculating.

Mostly on more obscure video platforms that we haven't heard of, Victor, but I have seen some clips being shared on Twitter and Facebook.

Facebook's parent company, Meta, says it is working on monitoring the platform, basically looking for digital fingerprints, a fingerprint from the video, and they are trying to remove it wherever they find it.

As always, it's a game of Whack a Mole, a horrible game of Whack a Mole. We've seen this in the wake of the Christchurch mosque attack and others as well.

And the response from lawmakers like Governor Hochul is mostly to say do better to the platforms, do better. The companies continue to be under tremendous pressure.

But I think, Victor, there's a will, there's always a way. So we have to talk about the will, the desire, the motive, the reason for someone to be so consumed by fear and hate.

Where there's a will, where there's a desire for some 18-year-old to go down a rabbit hole, there will always be some dark Web site catering to him.

In this case, he had paranoia and fear about a diversifying country. He claimed to be concerned about the declining white birth rates. And yet, now he'll never have a family himself.

It is easy for elected leaders to point the finger at big tech. And big tech does have a role to play here.

But the public policy solutions, it's so much more complicated than to say, hey, Twitter and Facebook, do a better job. Where there's a will, there's always going to be a way.

BLACKWELL: The question is, can we get beyond just, hey, social media companies, do a better job --

STELTER: Right.

BLACKWELL: -- and you see less of this online.

Brian Stelter, thank you so much.

Alisyn, back to you.

CAMEROTA: Thanks, Victor. [14:44:45]

The FDA commissioner tells CNN the baby formula supply in the U.S. should get back to normal within a few weeks. But parents are still scrambling today to feed their children. The surgeon general is going to join us next.

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CAMEROTA: The FDA is expected to make an announcement today about imports of baby formula to the U.S. as shelves across the country remain empty.

The former FDA commissioner says the FDA should have acted sooner to address the problems at the Abbott facility.

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DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: They were known problems with that facility going back many years or findings in some previous inspections.

[14:50:00]

The agency had a 34-page whistleblower report in hand making some pretty serious allegations that there were data falsification and information withheld from inspectors.

So these should have prompted more aggressive action earlier.

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CAMEROTA: Joining us now is U.S. surgeon general, Dr. Vivek Murthy.

Dr. Murthy, thanks so much for being here.

Do you agree with Dr. Scott Gottlieb that the FDA could have acted more aggressively sooner?

DR. VIVEK MURTHY, U.S. SURGEON GENERAL: Alisyn, it's good to be with you as well.

The FDA will comment certainly on what needs to happen going forward and will do a thorough review of what's happened in the past.

But the most important thing we have to do right now, Alisyn, is to make sure we get more formula on the shelves and make sure parents who have infants who need formula can get the formula to their children.

I say this, Alisyn, as a dad of two small kids. My son relied on infant formula for a while when he was younger. I know how important this is. And that's why we are all working 24/7 to make sure we increase the supply.

The president has been urging manufacturers and we have been working closely with manufacturers to increase production. We have also been working, as the doctor said earlier today, to import

formula from abroad to stock our shelves.

And the FDA is working with Abbott to get the plan running in Michigan, the one they voluntarily shutdown. They just want to make sure that's done safely and as quickly as possible.

CAMEROTA: I understand. And I know that you are in the middle of trying to fix the acute problem right now, not point fingers.

But I just think that it is important to figure out what went wrong here because it sounds like it is ripe for another problem.

When you find out that Abbott industries had problems at that plant for years, and a 34-page whistleblower report that defines some of those problems, how is that not caught sooner?

MURTHY: Well, Alisyn, like I said, I will let the FDA comment on its processes, procedures. And I know that they want to not only solve this problem in the short-term but make sure these types of challenges are avoided in the long-term.

And, look, we know a broader supply chain challenge, and we've seen, in part, because of the pandemic.

We have supply, for example, in the United States that we need to better distribute. And that's one of the reasons we have also been working with retailers to make sure we get formula from areas where there's abundant supply to areas where there's a shortage of supply.

And I want to say to parents out there who are worried about their children, who may have shortages of formula, there are a few key things that you can do.

Number one, for most infants, it's OK to change the brand of the formula you're using. I know that can be a scary thing at times. Know the brands on the shelves are ones that have been deemed by the FDA to be safe.

Second, remember, we are not advising people to dilute formula or make their own formula at home. That's not a safe path forward.

And finally, remember that HHS.gov/formula, this is a Web site where you have access to additional resources.

The American Academy of Pediatrics has put out resources that I believe will be helpful to parents.

We will get through this. I know this is a difficult time. But this is going to be a problem that we solve, we get more product on the shelf.

And ultimately, we'll figure out how to make sure this kind of challenge is much less likely to happen in the future.

CAMEROTA: I hear your advice to parents but it sound like parents are diluting the formula or resorting to making their own because they can't get their hands on any formula.

And some of them, we've talk to parents' whose children have allergies and they can't substitute one formula for another. So I mean, they're feeling desperate.

What date do you think that parents who are not able to get formula will get it?

MURTHY: Alisyn, I understand that pain, the concern. And if you're a parent whose child is on specialty formula, and you should talk to your doctor, your Ob/Gyn or your child's pediatrician about what the alternative options in terms of formula should be.

A number of physician's offices also can carry samples as well and you can check with your doctor to see if they have samples.

But that's also, Alisyn, one of the reasons we put together this Web site, HHS.gov/formula, to provide additional resources, recognizing that parents are running out and they need some help.

As the FDA commissioner said earlier today, we are anticipating over the next few weeks that there will be more and more and more formula on shelves because of the multiple strategies that we are employing to address the shortage.

The bottom line is we will be working on this until the problem is solved. We want to be there to support parents. And as a parent, I don't think there's anything more important than that.

CAMEROTA: If the FDA has to import formula from other countries, how will you ensure that those are safe?

MURTHY: That's a very good question. I'm glad you asked. The one thing the FDA will not compromise on in terms of importations is the quality and safety of the products.

And so they are setting up a process, in fact, to be able to ascertain the quality and ingredients and the process through which these products are made to ensure they are safe when they come to American shelves.

The FDA, as early as later today, will have more to say about the expedited process that they're putting in place.

[14:55:00]

But the bottom line is we want to pull out the stops to get formula back on the shelves. But we also want to make sure we do it safely.

Because we know the American people rely on the FDA for the safety and wellbeing of the food and formula their children receive.

CAMEROTA: Dr. Murthy, while I have you, I want to ask you about the gun violence epidemic. As you know, this morning, so many communities are reeling from what's happened over the weekend. There's Buffalo, New York, where there was the mass shooting. There's

Laguna Woods, California, where there was the mass shooting. But there's also 128 people across the country just this weekend who were killed by gun violence.

I know you have spoken for years about it being a public health crisis. What's the answer?

MURTHY: This is so heartbreaking to see time and time again these moments where we feel like we need to come to a reckoning and do something about gun violence, whether it's because of a mass shooting or because of individuals who are killed, you know, one on one or in smaller groups.

Regardless of how it happens, the bottom line is we have a profound challenge with gun violence in our country. That has been true for years.

My worry is we have not been able to summon the unity and political courage to do much about it.

I was gratified, on a bipartisan basis, Congress came together to finally fund research into the causes and solutions to gun violence. But make no mistake, we have to move faster.

And I think all of us, particularly in light of what happened with Buffalo, in New York, which was a mass shooting that was the result of racism and white supremacy.

We have to ask ourselves what we can do to address that deeper scourge in America that is costing people their lives, that is making people feel unsafe.

There's nothing more un-American, I believe, than white supremacy. That's not the values we aspire to as a country. It's not the values that brought my family and generations of immigrants to this country.

We need to speak out against it. We need to ask against it.

And if you're a social media platform or a technology platform, you need to take a close eye at what your platform does with regard to the spread of hateful ideas.

Because this is not a time where any of us should be sitting back and thinking this problem is going to solve itself. We all have a role to play here.

CAMEROTA: Dr. Vivek Murthy, thank you very much. Nice to talk to you.

MURTHY: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: In the wake of this racially motivated mass shooting in Buffalo, Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney is not mincing words. She says that leadership within the GOP is enabling white nationalism. We discuss that next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)