Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Biden on "Hateful Ideology" behind Buffalo Shooting; Finnish Parliament Votes in Favor of NATO Application; Ukraine Expects Prisoner Exchange; Voters Head to Polls. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired May 17, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR AND U.S. CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Good morning, I'm Erica Hill.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I'm Jim Sciutto.

Right now, President Biden and the first lady are on their way to Buffalo, where they will meet with the families of those killed in this weekend's racist mass shooting attack.

These have become such familiar presidential trips in these times. During today's visit, Biden plans to condemn the heinous act that left 10 people dead, calling it, quote, "terrorism motivated by a hateful and perverse ideology that tears at the soul of our nation."

This comes as we're seeing new eyewitness video, showing the very moment the suspected shooter was taken, there you see it, wearing camos.

HILL: We're also keeping a close eye today on primaries in several key states across the U.S. The spotlight shining very brightly on Pennsylvania and the Republican Senate primary there, TV personality Dr. Mehmet Oz facing off against former hedge fund CEO David McCormick and activist Kathy Barnette.

We'll keep an eye on that for you and the latest involving the push from Sweden and Finland to join NATO. Leaders set to hold a joint news conference moments from now, their applications expected to be formally submitted in the next day or so. We'll stay on top of all of those stories.

We want to begin this hour in Buffalo. CNN's Joe Johns is outside a community center there.

Joe, a couple of days into this, it is still very raw. Talk to us about what you're hearing on the ground.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Probably the first and most important thing to say, Erica, is the president is coming to try to grieve with this community, we're told. He visits the city of Buffalo and a neighborhood that is trying to

pick up the pieces after that military style attack, whether you want to call it domestic terrorism or just a hate crime. It still was a military attack on a grocery store on a Saturday afternoon, while people were just out trying to buy some groceries before Sunday.

So the president now visiting the community of Buffalo. He is expected, among other things, to go to the scene of the crime, to the grocery store. He's expected to meet with first responders, we're told.

He's also expected to meet with some of the survivors, the families of the victims, many of whom have horrible stories to tell. And there have been so many stories that have emerged, including this one, an 8- year-old girl describing how she survived. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LONDIN THOMAS, SHOOTING SURVIVOR: We went to the back of the store, where the milk is. And, like, we -- it was the door was locked and we could not get out until the manager opened the door. Then we had to go out the back door. And the cops lead us out.

I was scared for my mom. I did not know what happened to her because she was at the front, I was at the back. I didn't know where she was. I thought she was gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: So as the President of the United States arrives later here in Buffalo, the question, of course, is what he's going to talk about. We do know his meetings with the survivors and the families will be private.

But we have asked if he's going to talk about gun safety measures. What we're told is he's going to talk a little bit about using executive action and continuing to use it to deal with the gun problem in the country. Back to you.

SCIUTTO: Lord, an 8-year-old girl should not have to go through that. Joe Johns thanks so much.

Joining me now to discuss is Brian Murphy, former acting undersecretary for the Homeland Security intelligence office under the Trump administration. At the time he filed a whistleblower complaint in 2020, accusing Trump appointees of pressuring career officials to downplay the threat posed by white supremacists.

Why?

For political reasons.

Brian Murphy, good to have you on this morning. Before we get to the effect of that effort and the Trump administration, I want to talk about, given your experience, what would make a difference here? The Homeland Security secretary Alejandro Mayorkas says it is virtually impossible to monitor all hate crime. But he says it would be better to prevent people like this from being able to purchase the gun. After all, the shooter, he had had a mental evaluation after a generalized threat in high school.

Should he have been able to buy a gun?

[09:00:00]

BRIAN MURPHY, FORMER ACTING UNDERSECRETARY FOR THE DHS INTELLIGENCE OFFICE: Well, Jim, I think the answer is, of course, not. We have a long way to go in this country to find solutions to these problems. This happens over and over again.

And I think the American public is tired of seeing individuals that are filled with hate and, in this case, potentially have underlying mental conditions, being able to buy high powered weapons and commit these heinous attacks.

We need to do something different. I just saw your last segment, where they interviewed an 8-year-old girl. And as a parent, I'm filled with just the emotions in kind of understanding where she was, from this awful act of violence committed by this heinous individual. I mean, we need to do something different.

SCIUTTO: The pro gun response at times like this is, it is not a gun issue, it is a mental health issue. And there was a time, a brief time when red flag laws did have some Republican support. But you don't even hear about those at this point.

Given your experience, what specific legislation would Congress need to pass to prevent people, who either had a mental health evaluation or, say, posted publicly with violent thoughts or white supremacist thoughts or associations with such groups?

Is there a collection of legislative steps that would make a difference?

MURPHY: I think there could be. These are complicated issues. No one wants to enact legislation which prevents people from expressing their First Amendment, you know, opinions.

But when we're talking about acts of violence, there are carveouts under the First Amendment and expressing acts of violence, where there is a clear indication that something potentially is going to happen, it is against the law.

And there is things the government can do now with the social media companies. And it is about time that we switch from having a bifurcation between social media companies and law enforcement. They need to work together to understand these threats, find them and help silence these hate groups that are out there.

These are violent groups. These aren't people that don't believe in the other party or something and want to vote for someone different. In this case, this monster carried out a heinous act of violence.

SCIUTTO: Yes, we talked about that kind of cooperation with social media companies for years and just does not appear that problem has been fixed.

Let's talk about what happened during your time in the Trump administration because, as you said in your whistleblower complaint -- and others have testified to this -- that the Trump administration deliberately downplayed the threat from white supremacist violence in this country.

Did that move have consequences?

Did it set back DHS efforts to combat this kind of thing?

MURPHY: Well, of course. Under the Trump administration, DHS, without question it did. They attempted to silence myself and others that were pointing out what I would call the obvious, which is the threat from white supremacy has been a long enduring threat in this country. It is nothing new.

And in -- during that time, by ignoring it, you let that problem grow. But I'd like to shift gears if I can. In today's world, the DHS is under new leadership. We have a new president. And there are steps now that I hope this administration will continue to take to address these problems that we continue to see.

So the country has a long way to go to fully realize the history of domestic terrorism, particularly white supremists, and find that balance we can take tangible, concrete steps to combat this threat.

SCIUTTO: Give me one step that you would take today.

MURPHY: One of the first things I would do is to build that collaboration point, where we have independent framework, looking at what social media companies are doing and then looking at the intelligence that law enforcement has, to put that together so that we can build solutions.

Again, nobody wants a government to be peering into what they're doing. But we have the technology today and the social media when it comes to embrace it, to look at these threats across platform.

If you look at the shooter, he used multiple platforms to both radicalize as well as to broadcast his evil as he committed this act of terrorism. And I think that's an easy step we can take, to put our best together so we start solving things.

SCIUTTO: It is amazing. He livestreamed it, right, and that video stayed up for hours, just a remarkable side of this. Brian Murphy, appreciate you coming on.

MURPHY: Thank you for having me.

HILL: The White House just announcing this morning President Biden will host the leaders of Sweden and Finland on Thursday, a key show of support here, as both countries take steps toward joining NATO.

SCIUTTO: These are remarkable events. Both countries had resisted for decades. Just moments ago the Finnish Parliament voted overwhelmingly in favor of joining the alliance. A few months ago, they wouldn't have had the votes.

CNN Europe editor Nina dos Santos is following this from Stockholm, Sweden, with the latest.

They're doing this deliberately.

[09:10:00]

SCIUTTO: Sweden and Finland, joining hands, as it were, to enter.

Do we expect other swift action in Sweden?

NINA DOS SANTOS, CNNMONEY EUROPE EDITOR: Yes. So Sweden's foreign minister actually signed off on the NATO paperwork earlier this morning and said to TV cameras present she realized it was a really big, symbolic and serious thing to do.

And now, of course, we had Finland's parliament that have the obligation to debate this in parliament after a marathon session voting, 188 members in favor of NATO accession and eight voting against it. An overwhelming show of support from one of the two countries that actually had to have a vote on it.

Sweden already having signed off on the paperwork. And we have the president of Finland in town for a two-day, already pre-planned state visit. And he has obviously been saying that this is a hugely important moment for his country, too. It paves the way for Finland to send in its paperwork, too.

The fact that Washington, D.C., has extended an immediate invitation to the two countries is a huge show of support in the face of just one member of the 30-member alliance, Turkey, holding out, saying that they have some objections to Sweden and Finland, at the moment, joining NATO.

We also have seen Olaf Scholz, the German chancellor, head to Twitter just in the last half hour, saying he hopes the accession of these two countries will be speedy.

Both countries already qualify for NATO membership. If you look at the fact they're free market economies, burgeoning democracies, they spend a lot on military and they will be net providers to the group.

But also this will help to solidify an alliance where, in this part of the northern Baltic, they really were missing a part of the jigsaw puzzle. Eventually even Turkey knows that NATO will be stronger as 32 members with Sweden and Finland inside. Jim and Erica.

HILL: Nina dos Santos from Stockholm this morning.

Let's get you caught up on what is happening in Ukraine. Officials there reporting heavy casualties north of Kyiv as a result of Russian missile strikes overnight. Ukrainians also say their fighters are repelling Russian efforts to advance in the east.

SCIUTTO: CNN's Suzanne Malveaux joins us now from Lviv, in Western Ukraine.

Suzanne, these movements by Ukrainian forces, particularly in the northeast around Kharkiv pushing Russian forces back, they're significant.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN U.S. CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Jim and Erica. What we're seeing overnight is really a flurry of these missile strikes throughout the country, really rather unusual over the last couple of weeks. It had been quiet here.

A number of areas really hard hit. It was just last night that we saw it was north of Kyiv, it was a small town, it is the town of Desna, about 40 miles from the border of Belarus. That is where Ukrainian authorities say that they got hit in civilian areas that a lot -- took wounded and a lot of casualties, a lot that were killed.

They don't know exactly what the intended target was. But quite a bit of chaos there. Fortunately here in Lviv, to the west, we also experienced what we heard were those air sirens late in the evening, 12:30 or so, followed by several explosions we heard.

The attack itself, however, happened about 25 miles from where we are, about nine miles just from the border of Poland. It was -- its intended target, a railroad infrastructure. And we were told that there were no injuries there.

But clearly there is an escalation here that we're seeing, as the Russians try to disrupt some of these transportation lines, transfer lines, as well as try to detract and confuse, if you will, some of those Ukrainian units.

So they are not deployed to where the Russians want to make advances in the east.

HILL: Yes. Absolutely. Also, wanting to ask you about this expected prisoner exchange, Ukraine expected to carry out an exchange of Russian prisoners of war for the severely injured soldiers, who were evacuated from the Azovstal steel plant.

What more do we know about that?

MALVEAUX: Well, we have heard from the Ukrainian deputy prime minister, who has outlined this. We saw these dramatic pictures of these severely wounded Ukrainian soldiers coming out of that steel plant. They had been in there for weeks, no food, no really supplies, many of them deeply wounded, about 260 evacuated.

Out of them, 52, are going to be -- the intention is -- exchanged for prisoners of war on the Russian side. That is at least what they are hoping for. The big question, you know, they are being treated at an area hospital but it's still in the Russian-controlled area that -- so they don't necessarily have a great deal of control over this scenario.

But we did hear from a Russian spokesperson, who said that Putin guarantees that at least they'll be treated according to international law.

[09:15:00]

MALVEAUX: So many people just waiting to see if, in fact, that is actually true.

SCIUTTO: Suzanne Malveaux, thank you very much.

Well, Senate here is one step closer to passing the $40 billion Ukraine aid, humanitarian and military aid bill. The chamber cleared a major procedural hurdle, voting to advance the final passage but that's still a few days away.

Why?

HILL: Why?

Well, here's one reason, Jim. GOP senator Rand Paul said he's going to hold it up until Thursday, insisting there be an inspector general overseeing how the money is spent. The Biden administration says additional funds must be approved by that day to avoid a lapse in support for Ukraine.

SCIUTTO: Pictures there, the Azovstal steel plant there, that has been pummeled for weeks by Russian forces.

Still ahead, CNN rides along with Ukrainian secret police, as they arrested a suspected Russian spy. It is an exclusive report that is really worth watching.

HILL: First, though, polls are open in five states now. Voters decide who will face off in the midterm elections. We'll take you live to Pennsylvania and North Carolina, as high profile candidates like Dr. Oz and Madison Cawthorn try to get on the ballot.

And a bit later, new details about the motive behind a deadly shooting at a California church and the alarming steps the gunman took before opening fire, including super gluing the locks and putting Molotov cocktails around the building.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:20:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

SCIUTTO: Voters are lining up this morning in the biggest primary day of the year so far. Ballots being cast in five states. One of the biggest spotlights on Pennsylvania. Its pivotal races both for governor and a crucial U.S. Senate seat might determine the balance of the Senate.

HILL: Certainly will.

We're also keeping a very close eye on North Carolina, where some high profile Republican primaries will be decided today. That's where we fine Eva McKend, Kristen Holmes in Pittsburgh.

We'll start in Pennsylvania, take us through the races that are really being watched today.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Erica and Jim. It is turning out to be a wild primary day here in Pennsylvania, starting with that Senate Republican primary. It is essentially anyone's game.

You have three front-runners, who all appear to be virtually tied. David McCormick, who is going to vote behind me here in a few hours, a former hedge fund CEO. You have Trump endorsed celebrity Dr. Mehmet Oz.

And late surging political newcomer and ultra conservative Kathy Barnette. All three are giving their final pitches yesterday. And we also heard from former president Donald Trump quite a bit, doing his part to pull for Dr. Oz.

He made robocalls, bashing Barnette and called in to Oz's final rally to, again, bash his opponents and also to reiterate his support for that candidate. And anyone who tells you they know what's going to happen in this race is lying to you.

Now before we move over to Democrats in the Senate, I want to point to one more Republican race and that is for governor. We have Trump- endorsed election denier Doug Mastriano as the front-runner. This is a real test to see how far right conservatives are willing to go.

Both of these candidates were in Washington on January 6th and yesterday CNN reporting that Barnette, in previous comments, had said that she was leading buses to Washington on January 6th for, quote, "our 1776 moment."

This has Republican strategists across the country really ripping their hair out. They're concerned these conservative candidates can't win in a general election. It is going to cost them critical seats.

Now on that Democratic side, particularly focusing on the Senate, it is a little bit less dramatic but there is still some uncertainty. You have lieutenant governor John Fetterman, who is still in the hospital recovering from a stroke he suffered from late last week.

He has maintained a comfortable lead over his opponents, including Conor Lamb. But he hasn't been on the trail since Friday and there is this new wrinkle now because of his health.

How will that play out?

Will that close any sort of gap there?

But it is a wild day here in Pennsylvania and we'll be bringing it to you all day.

SCIUTTO: Eva, so in North Carolina, other big races there, Senate primary, of course, a big deal, also a certain Republican primary in the state's 11th congressional district getting a lot of attention. Tell us what's happening.

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Madison Cawthorn, just 26 years old, a freshman, has been ensnared in so much controversy, including twice having a gun confiscated at the airport.

What we have seen is not only the establishment Republicans in North Carolina really distancing themselves from him but also the establishment Republicans in Washington.

One person, though, who has not lost their confidence in Cawthorn is former president Donald Trump, who implored Republicans to support him. All eyes on that race and he'll be able to withstand the controversy.

We're also monitoring congressman Ted Budd in his third term in Congress at the top of the pack of the race. He's expected to vote here shortly. I was on the trail with him yesterday. He's really branded himself as a conservative fighter. But notably he still won't say that President Biden won the 2020 election. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TED BUDD (R-NC): And I have great constitutional concerns about 2020 and I don't think it should be a partisan issue. I think whether someone is a Democrat, unaffiliated or Republican, we should trust our institutions. I fully support voter ID.

[09:25:00]

BUDD: North Carolinians overwhelmingly supported that across party line lines several years ago and an activist judge overturned it.

MCKEND: But you still won't say President Biden won the election?

BUDD: I will say he is the current president and I have constitutional concerns about 2020.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKEND: So he's facing several challengers in the Republican primary. That is a contested race here. If he is successful, he will face off against likely Democratic nominee, Sherry Beasley. Jim.

HILL: Eva McKend, Kristen Holmes, thank you, both, busy day for you both. We'll continue to check in with you.

Joining me now is Will Doran, a political reporter with the Raleigh "News & Observer."

Great to have you with us. I want to pick up in North Carolina where we just left off with Eva. If we look at this GOP Senate primary, Pat McCrory signed the North Carolina anti-trans bathroom bill and has touted himself as being the state's most conservative governor in the state history.

Despite this clear shift to the right for Republicans, he's really struggling a bit.

Why?

WILL DORAN, "THE NEWS & OBSERVER": You know, it has been really tough. There has been a ton of money pouring into the race and also, you know, you have Donald Trump has endorsed Ted Budd. I think if this election was held a year ago, he would have easily walked away with it.

But in the year since then, Trump has endorsed Budd and we have seen just millions and millions of dollars pouring in from outside groups, both to attack McCrory and also to support Budd.

HILL: In terms of that outside money, thank you for the natural transition there, you wrote, "It's the outside special interest groups, not the candidates themselves, who have dominated both the ads and the messaging."

I'm curious, even with all that money pouring in, is there a sense that the voters recognize that this is outside money?

And if so, does it matter to them?

DORAN: I don't think there is, you know, a lot of inclination for people to read the small print on the mailers that show up in their mailbox or pay attention to the little last one-second (ph) segment of a TV ad when it says who pays for it.

I think people are paying more attention to the actual content of what is in those ads. So you know, I don't know if people necessarily -- I think some people are bothered by it. But not everybody.

HILL: Is it -- the races at this point, are they more about the interests and the issues of North Carolinians?

Or is this becoming more about amassing power in Washington?

DORAN: Well, it kind of depends. Obviously there are specific issues that people talk about. But everything has become so nationalized that, even down to the state legislative level, a lot of it is about national politics and what is the national hot button topic of the issue.

You're really seeing that shift more and more here that, you know, everything is just so focused on the national politics.

HILL: It is amazing how we're making that shift, right; instead of all politics being local, now it seems like all politics are national.

Madison Cawthorn facing seven challengers, he only needs 30 percent of the vote. While his scandals have made national headlines, is there a sense that

they are impacting voters locally?

DORAN: That's the big question. You know, really, the conservative establishment is just knives out for Cawthorn. You have the main state legislative leaders have endorsed his opponent, so has U.S. senator Thom Tillis. They're trying to energize people on the ground to get Cawthorn out of office.

But he had a lot of support and I don't know if there has been a lot of success in some of these scandals reaching voters out there. It is an older area. I don't know if a ton of people are on social media to see some of these things that are coming out there. So that's really going to be interesting to watch as those results come in tonight.

HILL: And we'll be doing just that. Great to have you with us this morning. Thank you. You'll be busy today as well and tonight.

In terms of the results coming in, be sure to join CNN for our live special coverage as these results roll in, not just from North Carolina but from all five states. "ELECTION NIGHT IN AMERICA" with Erin Burnett, Jake Tapper and Anderson Cooper kicks off here at 7:00 pm Eastern.

SCIUTTO: So listen to this, House lawmakers are holding the first hearing in more than 50 years on what?

Unidentified aerial phenomena, we might know those as UFOs. Two Defense officials are set to share what they know about this topic.

Do they have any proof?

Also Dallas police arrest the suspect in a shooting at a Korean salon and they think the gunman may be linked to two other attacks at Asian- owned businesses.

[09:30:00]