Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

U.S. Intel Skeptical of Putin Backing Down or Being Toppled; U.S. Likely to Keep 100K Troops in Europe for Foreseeable Future in Face of Russian Threat; White House Adviser: Covid Cases in U.S. are Substantially Undercounted; Dow on Pace for Longest Weekly Losing Streak Since 1923. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired May 20, 2022 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: U.S. intelligence officials now believe that even if public opinion in Russia turns against the war in Ukraine, it will likely have no effect on persuading Putin to end it. Those officials also say that if the invasion ultimately fails, it will likely not force him out of power. CNN's Katie Bo Lillis us now. So, what more are you learning from these intel reports?

KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN REPORTER: Yes, Victor, so Putin has established this repressive media environment he has cracked down on early public protests. He's been able to successfully develop this kind of alternate -- false alternate narrative of the war that he has been able to push through propaganda. And maybe most importantly he's also been able to insulate the Russian people from some of the worst of Western sanctions that have been put in place in response to the war. And the results -- U.S. officials that we spoke to, say is that right now the war is broadly popular in Russia, and intelligence officials believe that it is likely to remain so for the very reasons that I just outlined.

But what's really interesting here, Victor, is that officials believe that even if there were to be a massive swing of public opinion against Putin's war in Ukraine, it's not likely that that would force Putin to be responsive to that opposition, right, he's more likely to simply be able to crack down on any sort of cracks of public dissent that he sees.

And I want to share with you something that sources familiar -- three sources familiar with the intelligence told us, which is that officials believe that Putin is involved in really the kind of minute operational details of this campaign that in Western militaries would be much more likely to be reserved for more junior military officers. Things like day-to-day operational goals, where attack lines are going. And what this tells you, Victor, is that Putin is sort of uniquely determined to carry out this war as he sees fit, very attached to it. You know, he sees himself as kind of fulfilling a personal destiny here to bring Ukraine back into Russia. And as a result, as one senior NATO official that we spoke to said, you know, he's not listening to his senior military officials, why would you anticipate he would listen to public opinion -- Victor.

BLACKWELL: Katie Bo Lillis with some crucial reporting there. Thank you very much.

The U.S. is expected to keep 100,000 troops stationed in Europe for the foreseeable future as Russia's aggression in Ukraine continues. CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr is with us. What do you know?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Victor, well, what's going on is NATO, and of course along with the United States, is looking at how many troops it needs to keep in Europe, especially along that eastern flank against the Ukraine border and to deter Russian aggression in Europe while supporting the European allies and Ukraine.

[15:35:04]

It looks like this is all going to go on for a while. So, there have been a number of recommendations being developed. And what we know now is General Mark Milley, the U.S. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs just backed yesterday from a meeting in Europe with other NATO military chiefs. He's part of the developing recommendations to NATO about the way ahead.

So, for the U.S., it looks like it's shaping up to be a continuation of 100,000 U.S. troops in that region. It was 60,000 before the Russian invasion. What could change that? What could make it go up? Well, with Sweden and Finland trying to join the alliance, if Russia were to engage in any kind of aggression or moving weapons against the Swedish or Finnish border and those countries want extra security, it could lead to an additional rise in troops. There could be more exercises, more troops rotating in and out of Europe, and General Milley, the U.S. chairman, of course, has talked about more U.S.-based capacity in Europe with more troops rotating in and out.

They've already in the last several days earmarked additional U.S. troops to rotate in to replace the troops that have been there now for so many weeks. All of this, really, Victor, the bottom line, growing indications that the U.S. force presence will be in Europe maintained for some time to come at these higher levels -- Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right, Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Thank you.

STARR: Sure.

BLACKWELL: Let's turn to COVID now. Cases are surging across the country, and the White House coronavirus coordinator warns infections are actually substantially under counted. We'll explain why, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:40:00]

BLACKWELL: Coronavirus cases are rising in 47 states across this country. White House COVID response coordinator Dr. Ashish Jha warns the current national case count does not paint the full picture.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DR. ASHISH JHA, WHITE HOUSE COVID-19 RESPONSE COORDINATOR: We're crossing that 100,000 threshold, and I'm convinced we are substantially under counting the number of infections out there because of home tests. So, we have a lot of infections, it's continuing to rise, and I expect that that number will continue to rise in the days and weeks ahead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Joining me now is Dr. Kent Sepkowitz. He is a physician and infectious disease expert at the Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York. Doctor, thank you for being with me.

DR. KENT SEPKOWITZ, DEPUTY PHYSICIAN CHIEF, QUALITY AND SAFETY AT MEMORIAL SLOAN KETTERING: Thanks for having me.

BLACKWELL: Dr. Jha says that we're not getting the full picture of what is happening across the country. Is that because there's so many home tests and people aren't reporting after that?

SEPKOWITZ: Absolutely so. Tracking the number of people tested in New York City, which I follow closely, there's been a decrease, somewhat dramatic decrease in the daily testing numbers. So, yes, I think the good news is that people are testing at home. But it has an impact on the ability to look across the public health impact of the infection, absolutely under counted.

BLACKWELL: Dr. Jha also says there's going to need to be an update for the vaccines in the fall and winter. Are we now going to be in this posture where there will have to be two boosters, two updates per year?

SEPKOWITZ: I think that would be good news, if our vaccine repertoire allowed us such a good, specific vaccine that we would have the opportunity to be boosted against today's variant, you know, we're all four months, three months behind ourselves. By the time we get something ready, a new variant has popped up and we're only prepared to deal with the last variant. So, I think we're going to be chasing our tail here for a while. Which means that I don't think we're going to be able to vaccinate ourselves out of this still in the -- certainly in 2022 and I suspect in 2023.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk about this phenomenon known as the "Paxlovid Rebound." You've written about it. This is the COVID treatment drug. And for people who are watching, Alisyn was with us for the first hour of the show. She's not with us this hour. Because there was a technical issue with her home studio. She's at home because in large part of this "Paxlovid Rebound." She tested positive for COVID, isolated, did all the things. Then she tested -- she took Paxlovid, then tested negative, started feeling some symptoms and then tested positive again. So, she's back at home in the home studio. What is happening here?

SEPKOWITZ: It's uncertain, but it sure seems like we are not able to -- we can knock down but we cannot knock out the virus. We're suppressing it. People feel better, which is great. Having been through this myself, it was nice to not have a crushing headache, but we don't have either the right drug or we're not giving it long enough to truly knock out the virus. So, it bounces back. Viruses do this all the time, different viruses, you know, classically with HIV if you stop your meds, the virus comes soaring back within a couple of days. So, you know, viruses are not easy to punch out.

BLACKWELL: Are people who take Paxlovid and then test negative, you know, you don't know if you're actually negative. Now we're seeing with this research, is this rebound. Are they still able to transmit the virus in that phase?

SEPKOWITZ: That's the million dollar question. No one knows. I think -- my opinion here is that absolutely yes, that the virus seems -- when it bounces back, seems more or less untouched by the antiviral. It's the same strain, there's no evident mutations. It's the same old guy just coming back more or less at the same amount that you had going in, so I think, yes. I think that we have created a little bit of a public health confusion. When I rebounded, I stayed back home, left my mask on if I went anywhere, and you know, ached and sniffled and felt for myself like one does.

BLACKWELL: All right. Dr. Kent Sepkowitz, glad you're feeling better. Thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us.

SEPKOWITZ: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: All right, stocks, let's see where the board is now, Yes, down about 60 points now. It's been, gosh, today was 500 points down earlier today. The Dow is on pace for its longest weekly losing streak since 1923. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:45:00]

BLACKWELL: In the all new CNN original series, "NOMAD WITH CARLTON MCCOY," the renowned chef and master sommelier takes us on a global exploration to discover the universal threads that connect us all. This week, Carlton takes us to the nation of Ghana on the West African coast.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARLTON MCCOY, This is beautiful, yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, love your tats.

MCCOY: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Love, love, love.

MCCOY: I try to get a tattoo --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everywhere you go?

MCCOY: Like, where I -- UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Same here.

MCCOY: Yes, so, My whole body, I want to leave a very old fully tattooed corpse. That's the goal. Luckily, I'm bald so I have more territory.

MCCOY (voice over): I've been invited to a weekly gathering of friends.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That looks good.

MCCOY: This looks incredible. I know this is like seems basic but I love fried calamari. I always have.

MCCOY (voice over): Young Ghanaians helping to shape the future of their city and country. Each and every one doing their part to build a better Ghana.

MCCOY: I think one thing I have appreciated Ghana is the fact that so many like intelligent, talented people like stay here. Like, why do you think that is?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a beautiful place. I think also, family and friends. You know.

MCCOY: Sure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we have the strong organic solidarity.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: One of my favorite countries in all the world, Ghana. Carlton McCoy with us now. So, you say that Ghana felt both foreign and familiar. Explain that.

MCCOY (on camera): Yes, I mean, I think whenever you land in a new country, you know, there is a different language. Countries smell different, they sort of look different. The colors used culturally are very different. So, you sort of land and you're getting your bearings, right. Your sort of trying to live on their terms. But when I started to eat the food and listen to the music, I found an enormous amount of commonality with a lot of the cultural elements that I was raised with. You know, the food, for instance, the use of black eyed peas and different ingredients like that, okra, which are on my table every day. You know, it was very fulfilling to feel that connection.

You listen to music and you hear the same tone and rhythms that I was raised on with, you know, R&B and hip-hop and jazz and blues. But in the traditional music there, but also seeing now the influence on American culture sort of coming back and creating something that's very unique that connects the diaspora to me was very, very fulfilling. You know, so, you know, so it was. It was a bit confusing at times.

BLACKWELL: Yes, you know, there is -- there's a lot going on. There's the music, there's the food, there's the art. The contemporary art scene in Accra is unbeatable. It's beautiful there. What is at the center of all of the activity there?

MCCOY: It's people. You know, we have to -- I tell people all the time, you travel the world, as much as I love to connect with nature, and that's also something that's very unique when you travel the world, people define the tone of a nation. And that was also something that was personally very fulfilling. You land in a country and everyone is black. And the wealthy, the government, everyone. And you see this country that is doing everything in power to sort of rid itself of any colonialists sort of, you know, hint of it in the government and in the nation, to really chart the course for Ghana they want for themselves and being an independent nation.

It's just really fulfilling to watch that, and the people are very vested in the future success of their nation on their own terms. You know, even if they go away for school, they come back and they invest in their own country. And that's what has made Accra so progressive. And you're right, I think Accra probably has the most exciting contemporary art scene in the world right now. You know, Amoako Boafo, Serge Attukwei Clottey, who we interviewed. That was a really important thing for me to be able to show people.

BLACKWELL: Yes, there's one line that folks will have to watch the episode to hear. This radio host expound where he says that unlike its neighbors, Ghana modernized without westernizing. So, we're going to watch.

MCCOY: Correct.

BLACKWELL: Carlton McCoy, thank you so much for being with us. We look forward to the episode.

MCCOY: Thank you for the work you do.

BLACKWELL: Thank you, sir. And "NOMAD WITH CARLTON MCCOY" airs this Sunday at 10:00 right here on CNN. We'll be right back.

[15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: The high cost of home renovations led this week's CNN hero to discover the joy of doing it herself. Eventually, Nora El-Khouri Spencer realized that teaching these stills to other women could help her entire community, including the elderly.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NORA EL-KHOURI SPENCER, CNN HERO: We're going to talk about putting the sheathing on the roof today.

SPENCER: Our students learn a little bit of everything. The basics like safety, tools and materials, construction math. And then we go into hands-on stuff. Carpentry, electrical, plumbing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 126 and 3/4. SPENCER: So, our program is actually solving two problems at once. We

are training women for living wage paying jobs in the construction trades.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is where it gets fun.

SPENCER: And we're also helping older adults age in place. That's really a win/win. When you get to watch something come together that you built.

SPENCER: Does that feal like it's going to work for you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

SPENCER: Great.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is awesome.

SPENCER: There's just such a feeling of accomplishment. If we don't see women out there doing this, other women, they'll never see this as an opportunity if you can't see it, you can't be it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: All right, to see Nora's team in action and get the full story, go to CNNheroes.com. And while you're there, nominate someone you think is a CNN hero.

Let's take one final look at the Dow before the closing bell. Pretty much flat, considering that intraday trading was down more than 500 points.

[16:00:00]

Long losing streak that the Dow is on. Looks like the S&P will close out the week just out of bear market territory. Up just a fraction of a percent there.

"THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.

END