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Operation Fly Formula To Deliver 132 Pallets Of Baby Formula To U.S.; Wife Of Justice Clarence Thomas Pressed AZ Lawmakers To Overturn Biden's Win; Tucker Carlson Not Sure About "Replacement Theory"; Biden Signs $40 Billion Ukraine Aid Package In South Korea; Fisherman's Floating Seaweed Could Win $100 Million And Help The Planet; Book: Russia Had "Fourth Man" Inside The CIA During Putin's Rise. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired May 21, 2022 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:35]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

And help is on the way for the baby formula shortage. A U.S. military flight carrying 132 pallets of baby formula is set to arrive in Indianapolis tomorrow straight from Ramstein Airbase in Germany.

Using military aircraft for this mission is not business as usual and shows just how dire the situation has become. Some families have turned to hospitals to help feed their children and that includes four babies in South Carolina who could not tolerate other formulas when their usual product sold out.

One estimate says at least 45 percent of formula products were sold out last week nationwide and hoarding is only making things worse. One woman in Massachusetts filled a shopping cart full of baby formula and was confronted by another shopper. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look at this. Look at all this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I need it for my baby.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look at the shelves. You don't think I need it for my baby, too?

This is the whole reason why there's a formula shortage, you take all the formula off the shelf and buy it all at once.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You come after me. I don't know you get this one.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That doesn't matter, I'm saying this is the whole reason there's a formula shortage. You come and you buy all the formula at once and there are kids who need formula today who won't be able to get it because you just bought it to stock up. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Yes. We've got to work together on this. You can't hoard it and put it in your basement at home. That's not going to work.

In the meantime, CNN's Elizabeth Cohen joins me now from Ramstein Airbase in Germany where these formula flights will depart. Elizabeth, what are you seeing?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Jim today, I've been watching service members at Ramstein Air Force Base put together these pallets, 1.5 million 8-ounce bottles of formula headed to Indiana, also arriving tomorrow.

Now talking to the service members, they're really touched by the work that they're doing. They say they ship things and people all the time, that's what they do. But they said this feels different.

They're sending infant formula back to babies in their home country, back to the United States, and they said this feels very different. They really feel like they're helping babies back in their own country.

Let's take a look at the product that's being shipped back. You can see it says Nestle here. And here it says Alfamino. This is a hypoallergenic formula. These are a lot of children who have allergies have been having trouble getting the formula they need. Nestle, of course, is a Swiss company.

Now there's a bit of bittersweetness here. It's sweet that the service members were able to do this and that this formula is on their way to American families.

The bitter part is how did we get in this situation? How did we get in this situation where Europe needs to be helping America feed its own babies? There will be many, many questions about this in the days and weeks and months to come.

And to be clear-eyed about this, 1.5 million bottles, it is a lot, but there are millions of babies in the United States. This will not turn things around when it arrives in Indiana. It's one of many steps that's being taken.

But parents aren't going to see full shelves tomorrow or the next day or the next day. This shortage could go on for a while. Hopefully it will get better soon but it won't be turned around for many weeks to come, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, Elizabeth. Thank you very much.

Turning now to the January 6th investigation and the controversy surrounding the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas and her efforts to reverse the 2020 election. We already knew Ginni Thomas was texting Trump's White House chief of staff Mark Meadows after the election urging him to overturn Trump's defeat. We've now learned she pushed two Arizona state lawmakers to do the

same. She sent emails asking them to send alternate pro-Trump electors to Congress to effectively steal Biden's victory in that swing state.

Joining us now is CNN senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Elie Honig.

This one it just -- it boggles the mind. It's just astounding to me how far Ginni Thomas was willing to go. It's incredible.

What about this from a legal standpoint, Elie? We know this alternate elector scheme is being criminally investigated at the state and federal level. This is serious.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Jim, these new revelations take Ginni Thomas from the status of bystander over to participant.

[17:04:54]

HONIG: Up until now the defense of Ginni Thomas had always been, well look, she has extremist views, you're allowed to have extreme views, but she didn't actually do anything, ok. She went to the January 6th rally but she claims she left before things turned violent.

Now we see her taking direct action, directly applying pressure to state legislatures to try to steal an election that Donald Trump did not win.

And to me there's two things to watch now.

One, will the January 6th committee subpoena Ginni Thomas? They have subpoenaed hundreds of people. She plainly, at a minimum, has relevant testimony that she needs to testify about.

And two, will Justice Clarence Thomas recuse himself, meaning remove himself from January 6th-related cases. He has not done that so far. I think it is a plain breach of ethics for him to fail to do that. And frankly it's getting tiresome to hear Justice Thomas out there in the public speaking circuit telling us the Supreme Court is pure and non- political and lecturing us that it's the media's fault people don't trust the Supreme Court.

No. It's the failure of justices like Thomas to abide by even the most basic ethical requirements.

ACOSTA: Yes. It would be great to see somebody ask him a question at one of these speaking events about what Ginni Thomas has been up to. I mean I would be fascinated to get a response to that.

You know, Elie, a lot of moves from the January 6th committee this week. CNN has learned Rudy Giuliani met with the House panel for nine hours. He was a central figure in Trump's failed 2020 scheme. And we saw his election press conferences, the Four Seasons landscaping episode and so on. Do you have any confidence that he's giving them reliable testimony? HONIG: Zero. No. Not at all. I'm actually surprised that he testified

at all. I mean this is a guy with all sorts of legal problems. He's being sued for millions of dollars by voting companies. He's had his law license suspended. He's under criminal investigation by the Department of Justice. We know that.

I was shocked he didn't take the Fifth Amendment. But look, I'm trying to put myself in the mindset of an investigator here using my old prosecutorial experience.

I'm thinking, what would you do with Rudy Giuliani? Would I trust him? No. Would he be my star witness against anyone else? Absolutely not.

I guess the hope would be well, let him talk. Let him go. He just says whatever is on his mind. Maybe he'll say something interesting, maybe he'll give them a lead.

So in the view of the committee, why not let him say what he has to say and see if there's anything useful there. But no, I don't trust him at all.

ACOSTA: And this week, former Mark Meadows aid Cassidy Hutchinson met for the third time with the select committee. I'm told she covered new ground during her deposition. I've also heard she believes she's being forced to testify because her former boss, Mark Meadows, refuses to comply with a subpoena to appear.

And we're told she may be part of these public hearings that are expected later on in the summer. She's a very important witness in all this, isn't she?

HONIG: Yes, Jim. This is a really important development. I think the name Cassidy Hutchinson is one of several names that maybe aren't household names at this point but we're going to get to know quite well as the hearings approach.

You know, Mark Meadows -- a lot of the big names -- Rudy Giuliani, Mark Meadows they think are very unlikely to testify. But good investigators know you can make a case with other witnesses. There's always someone else in the room, there's always a deputy, there's always an assistant.

And that's what Cassidy Hutchinson is. We know already that she told the committee that Mark Meadows was warned specifically, there could be violence on January 6th. That's a crucial point. And the fact, Jim, as you've reported now, that she was brought back again tells me the committee is really interested in her testimony.

And I would put her on the short list of people I think we're likely to see testify live when these hearings kick off in June.

ACOSTA: I certainly think that's the case. It's going to be fascinating to watch.

Elie Honig, thanks for breaking it down as always. We appreciate it.

HONIG: Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. And let's turn now to the bitter GOP primary battles playing out in two states. In Pennsylvania Trump-endorsed Senate candidate Dr. Mehmet Oz has a razor-thin lead in a race that's still too close to call.

Trump wants him to do what he did and just say he won. Of course, he can't do that. And down in Georgia in the final weekend of the campaign, Trump-endorsed candidate David Perdue is on the ropes against incumbent Governor Brian Kemp.

CNN is on the ground for both of these races. Melanie Zanona is in Pennsylvania and Eva McKend is in Georgia.

Melanie, a new court ruling just came down that could affect the final count in Pennsylvania. Tell us what's at issue here and what the two sides are saying about it.

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes. This is all about undated ballots. There was a recent court ruling related to a local Pennsylvania election from last November. The judges ruled that ballots submitted without a date should count in that local election.

It's unclear at this point whether that ruling is going to apply to Tuesday's Senate GOP primary race. It's also unclear how many undated ballots there were from Tuesday. We do know that Allegheny County reported over 200 ballots were submitted without a date on them. The secretary of state is still working to determine that figure for overall how many ballots there were.

[17:09:49]

ZANONA: David McCormick's campaign is hoping to use this to his advantage. His lawyer sent an email to all 67 counties and said that they are going to request a hearing if undated ballots are not counted.

And Oz's team is hitting back. They're making clear that they're going to oppose this legal effort. Let me just read you a part of the statement from Oz's campaign manager. He said, "Unfortunately the McCormick legal team is following the Democrats' playbook, a tactic that could have long-term harmful consequences for elections in the commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Our campaign will oppose McCormick legal team's request that election boards ignore both Pennsylvania's Supreme Court and state election law and accept legally rejected ballots."

So this is just a preview of the fight to come. Remember Oz is only leading McCormick here by a thousand votes or so. So every vote matters especially since this is likely headed to a recount, Jim.

ACOSTA: Yes. It's extremely tight there. What a wild development.

And Eva, in Georgia, Trump's big lie is front and center in that race for governor. It's really divided the candidates, almost more so than any other issue.

That message failed, though, in the senate runoffs there. What are voters saying this time around?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: Well, the former president remains popular with Republican voters, and many believe the big election lie that the 2020 election was somehow rigged or stolen, but they also have other issues on their mind beyond Trump's grievances.

And that is the issue for former senator David Perdue because he has made the big lie a cornerstone of his campaign.

Now, Governor Kemp, though, not taking this election for granted. He's still imploring his voters to get out there on Tuesday. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. BRIAN KEMP, (R-GA): Don't believe the polling. Be excited by the momentum, but use that to encourage you even more to leave no doubt on Tuesday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKEND: Now, Perdue has shifted his message in recent weeks to broaden out that message to argue that Governor Kemp has sold out Georgians to corporate interests more generally. But that is a message that doesn't seem to be gaining traction.

Bottom line, you have an incumbent Republican governor who has been able to deliver conservative policy wins, and that is a major challenge for Perdue. Vice President Pence will be campaigning for Governor Kemp on Monday, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, Eva McKend and Melanie Zanona, thanks for breaking down those two important very important races. Thanks so much.

Coming up, he's pushed replacement theory more than 400 times on his show. And now following last week's racist mass shooting in Buffalo, Tucker Carlson is pretending he knows nothing about the far right conspiracy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: You've heard a lot about the great replacement theory recently. It's everywhere in the last two days. We're still not sure exactly what it is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:12:53]

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ACOSTA: Fox's Tucker Carlson is trying to distance himself from a white supremacist conspiracy theory he's peddled on his show for years.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CARLSON: You've heard a lot about the great replacement theory recently. It's everywhere in the last two days. And we're still not sure exactly what it is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: The issue arose in the wake of last weekend's deadly mass shooting in Buffalo, New York, because of a 180-page racist rant posted by the alleged gunman. In it he references the great replacement theory or the idea that there's a nefarious effort to replace white Americans with non white Americans for political gain. It's nonsense, of course, peddled by white supremacists on the Internet.

Carlson has mainstreamed this garbage though and while Tucker now claims he has no idea what it is, which is not, of course, true, he's pushed the concept more than 400 times on his show in recent years. And here is just a very small sampling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: I know that the left and all the gatekeepers on Twitter become literally hysterical if you use the term "replacement" if you suggest the Democratic Party is trying to replace the current electorate, the voters now casting ballots with new people, more obedient voters from the third world.

But they become hysterical because that's what's happening, actually. Let's just say it. That's true.

We've never seen demographic change like this. It's roughly the equivalent of a brand new city of Chicago every year, a city populated entirely by poor people with limited education who can't speak English. And the question is how is it good for America.

Joining us now is Carl Cameron, founder of frontpagelive.com, and a former Fox News chief political correspondent who decided to leave Fox after 22 years in part because of people like Tucker Carlson.

Carl, my old campaign colleague, great to see you. Do you think the Murdoch family in charge of Fox will ever pull the plug on Tucker? What do you think?

CARL CAMERON, FOUNDER, FRONTPAGELIVE.COM: There's a point at which it becomes difficult for an executive to put up with the help. In this particular case Tucker has been screaming fire in a crowded movie house for years.

And that cliche really comes to the matter of what is free speech. And the fact of the matter is, if you disturb the peace by starting a riot in a movie theater, cops are going to arrest you and you might end up in jail or you might end up in something worse.

And that kind of stuff absolutely has to stop, whether it's the antitrust bill to take down and de-platform people who lie and put out falsehoods that cause damage and violent, violent hate, there ought to be something done about it.

And in fact, the administration is beginning to actually make a move on that and it's been way overdue.

[17:19:48]

CAMERON: It's not just Fox, it's social media in general. It's on the Internet. And we have to remember that a good portion of what people read is coming from folks who aren't Americans, pretending to be Americans in order to gaslight them even worse.

And it's great to see you, Jim. We did mark a lot of miles together.

ACOSTA: We certainly did. My goodness, you know, and have a lot of stories to tell. Maybe we'll tell those stories one of these days. Carl, let me ask you, because -- this I think dovetails right into my next question, because you and I have covered a number of CPAC conferences over the years -- Conservative Political Action Conference.

And now they're gathered in Hungary of all places and invited the prime minister and longtime Putin ally Viktor Orban to be the speaker. And according to "The Guardian" among the things Orban said in his speech that shows like Tucker Carlson should be broadcast 24/7. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIKTOR ORBAN, HUNGARIAN PRIME MINISTER (through translator): Of course the Grand Old Party has associates in the media, associated media, but they do not compete with the dominance of the liberal press. Only my friend Tucker Carlson places himself on the line without wavering. His new program is the most watched.

What does it mean? It means that programs like his should run day and night, as you say 24/7.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: This is not your father's CPAC. I mean this is weird stuff, Carl. What do you make of it?

CAMERON: It's horrifying. This is the kind of nonsense that we expect in Eastern European countries that were blasted by the Soviet Union for years and years and years. And Orban is a classic sort of autocratic fascist. And people like Tucker Carlson are participating in spreading that in the United States.

There is no place for it. It has to be stopped. The idea of replacement theory is ridiculous. It's a made-up thing, and the fact that there are changes in our demography has always been positive in this country.

There was a time when Italians were being racially threatened and damaged just because they were Italians or they were Catholics. That stopped. The same has to stop for Latinos. The same has to stop for Asians and black Americans.

It has been far too long that this country has been letting this go. Now that Republicans, led by Trump for the last few years, are trying to say that that's American politics, it absolutely isn't.

And those who pretend to do this are hurting the constitution and hurting our country. And they're going to pay for it sooner or later.

ACOSTA: Carl, you know, you make such a great point. And it is -- it's such a strength of this country, the diversity, this multicultural tapestry that we've all enjoyed for so many years.

And you're right. This country just becomes that more perfect union as we grow and welcome all these new folks into our country year after year.

And I just wonder as we're talking about this, what do you say -- because I hear this myself. What do you say to folks who say you shouldn't talk about Tucker Carlson, you shouldn't talk about this white replacement theory, don't even mention what's going on at CPAC.

What do you say to folks who just you know -- I think of it as sticking your head in the sand a little bit. What's your reaction when you hear that from folks?

CAMERON: Well, it's unfortunate. I understand it. Between the pandemic and the politics, there's a lot of things people don't want to think about.

The reality about this, however is this is a free country. And If people of good will, the likes of which are in all races, all various different creeds, if we follow what the founders did and never really did right, then we can maintain a democratic republic.

At this point we have a huge portion of the population led by Republicans and Donald Trump exclusively. We are going down a very, very dangerous road where in other parts of the world civil rights and civility in general has been decimated by the kind of stuff that's being perpetuated, and it's got to stop.

Democrats have to kick it in. The president has to be more forceful. And sooner or later the law enforcement and the U.S. government is going to have to stop the lying because it's causing people's deaths.

ACOSTA: I think you're absolutely right. I think that's spot on. You know, if the worst were to happen, you know, do you want to say, well, I wanted to play it safe. You know, I really didn't want to get into this. I didn't want to speak out against it and so on.

You know, how would you be able to live with yourself? I think that's the choice that we all face.

[17:24:53]

CAMERON: Not just in our own neighborhoods, Jim, but around the world. There has been years where the United States was revered by tons of countries who aspired to the type of society that we had. Now they're watching us deal with the kind of nonsense they've been fighting in some cases for a century.

ACOSTA: You're absolutely right. Carl, you and I both know from our travels, when we do travel outside of the Beltway, we do talk to people in other parts of the country, other parts of the world -- this is what people ask us all the time. What is happening inside the United States. You know, please do something about it.

Carl Cameron, let's have you back some time. Great to catch up with you, old buddy. And thanks for your time. We really appreciate it. Great to see you.

CAMERON: Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: Still looks like a young man there. Carl Cameron. All right, appreciate it.

Coming up, the war in Europe looming large over President Biden's trip to Asia. We'll get a live report next.

Plus dozens of people injured after a powerful tornado hits Michigan causing catastrophic damage.

[17:25:52]

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[17:30:20]

ACOSTA: Russia's invasion of Ukraine looming large over President Biden's visit to Asia this weekend. The president signing a $40 billion emergency aid package for Ukraine while in South Korea. The bill was flown there for his signature.

CNN's M.J. Lee joining us from Seoul.

Great to see you. Thanks so much forgetting up. I know it's early there.

Biden is working on strengthening U.S. ties in Asia, but he has to keep his tabs on what's happening in Ukraine.

M.J. LEE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's absolutely right, Jim. Frist, this trip to Asia for President Biden, not unlike his last trip to Europe, has really been about trying to present the show of force between the U.S. and allied countries here in Asia as Russia, of course, continues to invade Ukraine.

A key goal for the president that we've seen over the last couple days is to try to highlight over and over again the areas where he says the U.S. and the Republican of Korea really stand together.

Of course, the economy has been a major, major issue. There's no question why. We saw the president, as soon as he landed here in Korea a couple days ago, the first stop, the first visit he made was to a Samsung semiconductor plant.

Where he talked about the chips that South Korea is making and talking about trying to address some of these global supply chain issues and how the two countries can work together on the major economic issues.

And then, of course, North Korea has been a major area of focus for the two leaders that met yesterday, President Biden and President Yoon Suk Yeol, where they talked about how the two countries will remain military allies and remain together, standing together in confronting the many challenges post by Pyongyang.

They announced they're going to consider expanding these joint military drills that had been tamped down under former U.S. President Donald Trump.

They've also talked about other issues like COVID, like climate change that they said were areas where the two countries can work together.

As you said, Jim, it is absolutely right that the war in Ukraine has loomed large over this trip. And the president talking about how that is one other area where the two countries stand together.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Putin's war against Ukraine isn't just a matter for Europe. It's an attack on democracies and the core universal principles of sovereignty and territorial integrity.

The Republic of Korea and the United States are standing together, part of a global response with our allies and partners around the world to condemn Russia's flagrant violations of international law and to hold Russia accountable and to support the people of Ukraine

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: As you know, President Biden next heads to Japan where he is going to be convening the summit of the Quad Countries -- that's the leaders of Japan, India and Australia -- that are going to be meeting with President Biden.

This is going to be a really interesting stop because the Biden administration has made clear that it wants Korea and Japan relations to be improved as well.

That, of course, has everything to do with trying to counter China's influence in the region -- Jim?

ACOSTA: Also a very big topic for the president, you're right.

M.J. Lee, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

Coming up, the hunt for a Russian spy in the top ranks of U.S. intelligence. We talk to Bob Baer about his new book and a never- before-told story. Plus, "FINALLY HOME," CNN's exclusive interview with Trevor Reed, the

former Marine held for 985 days in Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, "THE LEAD": Have you been able to fully grasp you're free?

ANNOUNCER: A CNN exclusive.

TAPPER: You went to a party in August of 2019.

TREVOR REED, FORMER U.S. MARINE FREED FROM RUSSIA: The next morning, I woke up in a police station.

ANNOUNCER: Former U.S. Marine Trevor Reed talks with Jake Tapper about his 985 days in Russian hands.

REED: They have absolutely no value for human life.

ANNOUNCER: How it came to an end.

REED: They were never going to break. Maybe I would have died but they never would have broken me.

[17:34:28]

ANNOUNCER: "FINALLY HOME, THE TREVOR REED INTERVIEW," tomorrow at 8:00.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Russian spies in the CIA and FBI, U.S. double agents, giving up secrets to the Soviet Union during the Cold War, the stuff of countless movies and television shows.

Sometimes the truth is even more dramatic. During the 1980s, three Americans known to have spied for the Soviet Union, FBI agent, Robert Hanson, and CIA agents, Aldrich Ames and Edward Lee Howard, help Moscow identify and impression many of the Soviet agents who were secretly spying for the U.S.

Now, the new book, "The Fourth Man, The Hunt for a KGB Spy and the Rise of Putin's Russia," we hear about the hunt for a fourth major American spy who was never caught.

Joining us is the author of that book, Bob Baer, CNN intelligence and security analyst and former CIA operative.

Bob, I haven't seen you in a very long time. Great to see you. Great to have you on.

[17:40:00] This is fascinating stuff. What evidence is there that this mole is out there somewhere? Are we talking about somebody now inside the government?

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE & SECURITY ANALYST: Jim, he's retired. We believe he's still alive. The FBI believes this. (AUDIO PROBLEM)

The investigation is ongoing and active -- (AUDIO PROBLEM). They're trying to get evidence against him. But unlike Hanson and -- (AUDIO PROBLEM) -- made sure not to get caught -- (AUDIO PROBLEM).

ACOSTA: Hold on, Bob. Bib, you're breaking up a little bit there. Should we try to re-establish real quick?

Bob, one more time, are you there?

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: Bob, we're going to take a quick break. We'll fix your signal. And we'll come right back in just a moment.

It's a question worth $100 million, how do you get carbon dioxide, the gas responsible for global warming, out of the air? We'll talk about this next as we get Bob's signal established.

Bill Weir, with us an CNN, is going to show us one answer. Believe it or not, it's seaweed. Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): To avoid cascading disaster, science agrees that it won't be enough just to stop using fossil fuels. Humanity must remove trillions of tons of planet-cooking pollution already in our seas and sky.

And whoever figures out how to do that might just get $100 million from Elon Musk.

ELON MUSK, CEO, TESLA: You know, sometimes people say, well, just plant a bunch of trees. I'm like, that's not so easy. You need to get fertilizer. You've got to water them. Where's the water going to come from. What habitat are you potentially destroying where the trees used to be?

WEIR: With his year-old Carbon XPrize, the controversial billionaire says he wants to lure out the geniuses who will figure out how to capture and store carbon dioxide on massive scales.

MARTY ODLIN, CEO, RUNNING TIDE: It's a Godzilla.

WEIR (on camera): Yes.

ODLIN: It's burning forests down. It's stealing our fish.

WEIR (voice-over): And among the finalists is a humble fisherman from Maine. ODLIN: There's this thing out there and it's like ruining everything

that we love, right? All the good stuff is getting ruined.

WEIR (on camera): Your dream was to have a boat?

ODLIN: Yes, I just wanted a boat. I really just wanted a boat. There just aren't any mackerel. Like, they're all -- they're all -- they swim north, they swim east and they're now probably up in Iceland.

WIER (voice-over): With his beloved Gulf of Maine getting warmer and more acidic by the day, Marty Odlin quit chasing mackerel, built a team of geniuses, and went fishing for carbon dioxide with seaweed.

Because kelp grows and gobbles CO2 much faster than trees, needs no land or fertilizer. And when it sinks to the deep ocean, the carbon can be locked away for 1,000 years.

(on camera): But kelp needs sunlight and something to hold on to. So Marty, who is also an engineer, went to the drawing board and he settled on floating thousands of high-tech buoys in the north Atlantic, each holding a little kelp forest while a ring of limestone serves as the antacid for the ocean.

Solar power runs a camera and instruments connected to the cloud. And, when a crop is cut, and falls into the deep, Marty gets a carbon credit from a billion-dollar fund set up by Canadian e-Commerce giant, Shopify.

WEIR: You have a couple high-profile investors behind you.

ODLIN: Uh-huh.

WEIR: Do you think that will be enough if government can't get its act together?

ODLIN: No.

WEIR: This has to be --

(CROSSTALK)

ODLIN: No, it's just the math. People spend billions of dollars to see if there's an oil field, right? And what we're trying to do is build the oil industry in reverse.

WEIR (voice-over): He images the Portland docks coming back to life, to capture carbon the way they once built ships to beat Hitler.

ODLIN: It's a race that no one loses as long as someone wins. Like, I don't care like, you know, like -- as long as somebody wins this race, like, cool, right?

WEIR (on camera): Right. Right.

ODLIN: I don't care who moves the most of it.

WEIR (voice-over): So he's thrilled to see competition, like Beth Zotter, among the Silicon Valley startups betting on big kelp.

WEIR (on camera): So if you end up being the Henry Ford of carbon to seaweed, this is your Model A, I guess.

BETH ZOTTER, CEO & CO-FOUNDER, UMARO FOODS & PROJECT LEADER, TROFX: Exactly. Yes. This is -- this is Gen 1.

WEIR (voice-over): She envisions massive seaweed farms anchored close to the shore.

But since rope can tangle sea mammals, her team invented a whale-safe scaffolding, screwed in place by underwater drones, and fed by upwellers that use wave energy to spin up nutrients and cold water from the deep.

ANNOUNCER: Amanda and Beth have two offers on the table for their seaweed-based bacon company.

WEIR: And before her crops are hauled and dumped, another one of her companies will extract the plant protein and turn it into meat alternatives.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll do that deal.

ODLIN: What are we waiting for? Are we waiting for all the fish to go away? I've seen enough go away. Do I have to wait for -- does the ocean have to be completely dead before we get our act together?

[17:45:04]

And it's -- I -- but you see, I think all this anxiety, all this frustration that people have is just because we haven't been unleashed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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ACOSTA: This just into CNN. Smuckers is recalling certain types of Jif peanut butter due to possible salmonella contamination. Multiple cases of the illness have been linked to the popular brand of peanut butter.

The recall includes more than 45 kinds of products sold nationwide. The FDA says check your jars of peanut butter and immediately throw them away if they are part of this recall.

[17:50:02]

And before the break, we were talking to former CIA operative, Bob Baer, about his new book "The Fourth Man" about the decades-long hunt for an American who spied for the Soviet Union but never got caught.

Bob, great to have you back. We've got everything -- all cylinders operating, firing on all cylinders here for this interview.

Walk us through this. Give us the background on this? Before we lost you, it was so fascinating.

BAER: Well, they discovered the guy in 1994 after Ames was arrested. There were all sort of compromises that Ames didn't make. So they opened an investigation at the CIA in coordination with the FBI. And it's gone on now 25 years. They believe the suspect is still alive.

He did more damage than any spy in America in history. including White House communications with Boris Yeltsin.

It's believed that the FSB, Putin's service, which he headed for a while, ran this man. And Putin made sure that we didn't see the coup d'etat that occurred in Rusia in 1999 when Putin came to power.

This is an incredibly fascinating story of the hunt for this man and his fighting back and his ability to elude the FBI.

And the FBI did a wonderful job collecting evidence. And by the way, Jim, they are still doing it as we speak. They are trying to run this case down. I heard it's in the eastern district of Viginia, sitting there.

ACOSTA: Wow.

BAER: It's being reviewed.

It's not for a lack of talent on the FBI's part. It's that this spy was so skilled. Not taking money, not passing documents. He was in it for the game.

And in this book, I follow the investigation and it's been fabulous. The sources I got were directly involved in hunt for him.

And what can I tell you? It's like I hope there's some Russian listening to this program that says, yes, I've got the evidence. Comes out as a defector and we can put this guy in jail.

ACOSTA: And you don't identify by name who you think this fourth man is. But if someone is ever confirmed, is this as explosive as the three we have on screen now, Robert Hanson, Aldrich Ames, Edward Lee Howard?

I mean, these are some of the biggest spy cases to have ever been reported on in American history.

BAER: He was at the top of the CIA. And it's suspected he did more damage than all three combined. I'm not saying this.

ACOSTA: Wow.

BAER: This is not my analysis. It's the analysis of the investigators.

ACOSTA: Do you worry about your safety when you're digging around the world of real spies and double agents and traders? Many of these people you're writing about want to stay in the shadows, Bob.

I know this is your line of work but are you kicking a bit of a hornet's nest here?

BAER: Oh, it's a hornet's nest all over Washington as we speak. And the FBI warned me directly, face-to-face, don't go to Russia, they'll kill you.

ACOSTA: And Putin's war against Ukraine, I have to ask you about that very quickly - has wiped out decades of diplomatic progress with Russia.

It's amazing to talk to young people today who just don't realize how much progress has been made after the collapse of the Soviet Union. And to see so much of it reversed now.

Does that have an impact on your line of work? What do you think? Do you see a return of that Cold War environment where there's spies and moles operating in the shadows?

BAER: Oh, absolutely. This is the first time we've been directly involved in targeting Russians with the military help we're giving to Ukraine.

As far as I'm concerned, this is much worse than the Cold War. We simply don't know what Vladmir Putin will do next.

He's talked about using nuclear weapons but we don't know what goes on inside of his head and we don't know how sick he is and we don't know who would replace him if he should die or be overthrown.

A lot of questions. We'll have to go back to spying on Russia like we used to. In fact, with more effort at this point, because we are very close to World War III, as you know as well as I. We need spies more than ever.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. You're an authority on the subject.

Bob Baer, thanks for hanging in there. Glad we got this to work. Great to see you there in Colorado.

Bob is the author of "The Fourth Man." Be sure to check it out. Fascinating stuff from up one of the best experts on this in the business.

That's the news. Reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. I'll see you back here tomorrow at 4:00 p.m. Eastern.

Pamela Brown takes over the CNN NEWSROOM, live after a quick break.

But before we go, we want to point out, the city of Buffalo right now is marking one week since a man killed three people in a racist attack at a grocery store.

[17:55:02]

Mayor Byron Brown leading his city in moment of silence earlier today. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR BYRON BROWN (D-BUFFALO, NY): Please join me in a 123-second moment of silence.

(SILENCE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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