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Pence to Campaign With Gov. Brian Kemp (R-GA) Ahead of Georgia Primary; Southern Baptist Leaders Accused of Covering Up Sex Abuse; Advocates Fear Abortion Bans Could Worsen U.S. Maternal Mortality. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired May 23, 2022 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Former vice president, Mike Pence, will take the stage alongside one of the former president's top primary targets.

[10:30:07]

Pence will campaign for incumbent Georgia Governor Brian Kemp, who is running against the candidate that Trump backs, the former Georgia senator, David Perdue, in Georgia's widely watched Republican gubernatorial primary.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: It's a race that's also getting attention for possibly major implications in the next presidential elections.

Joining us now to discuss is Mark Niesse, Political Reporter for The Atlanta Journal-Contusion. Good to have you with us this morning.

So, as we look at what's shaping up here too, we had Jonathan Martin of The New York Times, on with us just last hour, talking about how at this point Mike Pence is not saying that he won't challenge perhaps Donald Trump coming up in 2024. How much is that starting to overshadow, right, the Pence support and the Trump support? How much is that starting to overshadow these primaries tomorrow?

MARK NIESSE, POLITICAL REPORTER, THE ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION: Well, I think Trump support is a big factor, but at the same time, what we see here in Georgia is Republicans are choosing a variety of different candidates, some supported by Trump, others not, and, ultimately, we won't know. But, certainly, Governor Kemp has a big lead in the polls and he's looking for an outright victory over former U.S. Senator David Perdue in tomorrow's race without having to go through a runoff.

SCIUTTO: You make a good point because so many races, whether in Georgia or around the country, multiple issues are at play. It is not just a single former president's endorsement, although it has had impact in some places.

I do want to ask you this question, because Jason Shepherd, he is a former chair of the Cobb County Republican Party just outside of Atlanta, told Politico that Trump shine is beginning to fade. Quoting him, he said, Republicans are realizing it's great to have Trump's endorsement but that the former president is not going to be the end all and be all. And I wonder in your reporting, particularly in the state of Georgia, do you see and hear from Republican operatives a similar analysis?

NIESSE: I think there is something to that. I spent time talking with voters last week during early voting, and we saw so many voters who would support one Trump-endorsed candidate but not the other, or choose even candidates that oppose Trump but some very strong Trump supporters. So, voters are very independent and want to vote for the candidates who they know and you see voters being very engaged and looking at candidates as individuals rather than just the former president.

HILL: There is such a spotlight on your state, not the first time, as you know all too well. What are you looking at tomorrow? What are the results that you think will give the best picture?

NIESSE: Well, we have three big races that I'm most interested in. There is the governor's race, which is perhaps the one that has gotten the most attention between Governor Kemp and former U.S. Senator David Perdue.

Then we also have U.S. Senate, where Herschel Walker, the former UGA and NFL football player, is trying to win a Senate seat for the Republican nomination for a Senate seat to go against U.S. Senator Raphael Warnock in November.

And the secretary of state's race is interesting between current Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger and other candidates that include Congressman Jody Hice. And Jody Hice is endorsed by Trump and has questioned the 2020 election and Raffensperger famously refused Trump's request to find additional votes.

SCIUTTO: So, the key question here is this. Your reporting shows Trump is endorsing ten candidates in Georgia, most of them, as you know, repeated the 2020 election lie. If they win, for instance, in a position such as secretary of state, that has enormous influence over counting of votes and elections, would these officials, lawmakers have the power to do in 2024 what they were not able to do in 2020, and that is overturn results one man or one party doesn't like?

NIESSE: It's not entirely clear how a situation like that would play out. Georgia law requires the secretary of state and the governor to certify the results that they are given from the county level on up to the state level. There is not discretion in that. However, they do have that duty and what would happen if a secretary of state or a governor refused to certify as the state says they have to? Well, then it would go to the courts and there might be investigations.

You know, candidates, like Jody Hice, says, well, I wouldn't certify until an investigation is done if there were allegations of fraud. He says he would still pursue or comply with his legal responsibility to certify an election but he wouldn't certify an election that wasn't accurate.

[10:35:01]

So, I don't know where that leaves us. That does put the elections in an uncertain situation.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: Mark Niesse, good to have you with us this morning. Thank you.

NIESSE: Great. Thanks for having me.

HILL: Still to come here, a manhunt in Austin, Texas, after police suspect a love triangle led to the fatal shooting of an elite cyclist.

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[10:40:00]

HILL: A jarring new report just released from an independent panel found the Southern Baptist Convention leaders mishandled allegations of sexual abuse, intimidated victims and resisted any attempts at reform for more than 20 years.

The investigation determined that, quote, survivors and others who reported abuse were ignored, disbelieved or met with the constant refrain that the SBC could take no action even if that meant that convicted molesters continued in ministry with no notice or warning to their current church or congregation.

SCIUTTO: CNN's Carlos Suarez joins us. I wonder, Carlos, I mean, these are damning allegations here, how is the church responding?

CARLOS SUAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, Jim and Erica, that report covers a period from 2000 to 2021 and it includes a warning from a priest that senior leaders could be, quote, falling into some of the same patterns as Catholic leaders in not dealing with clergy sex abuse.

Now, the 288-page investigative report was released on Sunday and comes as that group gets ready to meet next month. It details a number of things, including a list that staffers maintain of ministers accused of abuse but no indication that staff took any actions to remove them from positions of powers at SBC churches.

In all, the investigation found 703 abusers, 409 affiliated with SBC at some point. Nine people accused of abuse remained active in the ministry and victims were considered, quote, opportunistic with an agenda or professional victims.

Now, one of the senior leaders named in the investigation was former SBC President Johnny Hunt. The report found a 2010 allegation that he sexual assaulted the wife of an SBC pastor as, quote, credible. Now, Hunt has denied ever abusing anybody.

In a statement, SBC said in part, quote, to the members of the survivor community, we are grieved by the findings of this investigation. We are committed to doing all we can to prevent future instances of sexual abuse in churches to improve our response and our care, to remove reporting road blocks. The report called for a number of reforms, including the creation of a database to track offenders, restricting the use of nondisclosure agreements and establishing permanent entities to oversee the reforms. One final note, Jim and Erica, senior leaders at SBC, they are expected to address the findings at a meeting on Tuesday.

HILL: We'll see if we hear more out of that. Carlos, I appreciate the reporting, thank you.

SCIUTTO: Right now, police are searching for a Texas woman accused of shooting and killing a woman whom she believed was dating her boyfriend. U.S. Marshals are searching for Kaitlin Marie Armstrong, pictured there. She is now facing murder charges in the fatal shooting of 25-year-old elite cyclist Anna Moriah Wilson, that's her.

HILL: CNN's Ed Lavandera joining us now with more. So, Ed, what more do we know this morning?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wilson was believed to be one of the best cyclists in her field in the world, so this is a significant loss rattling the biking community. But this happened back on May 11th, according to a police affidavit. Anna Moriah Wilson was murdered in a home that she was staying in. She's from San Francisco but she was staying with a friend in Austin.

And at the time, police believe that they started zeroing in on Kaitlin Marie Armstrong, who is 34 years old, and police in this affidavit say they started developing evidence that perhaps these two women were dating the same man, another cyclist by the name of Colin Strickland, and all of this unfolding over the last few weeks.

Police apparently also had found Armstrong and were questioning her but the arrest warrant that they had, according to the information we have at this point, was not done properly, and because of that, they had to release her and that is now what has triggered this manhunt for her.

In a statement to the Austin American Stateman Newspaper, Colin Strickland says that after our brief relationship in October 2021, he's referring to Wilson here, the victim, we were not in a romantic relationship, only a platonic and professional one. It was not my intention to pursue an auxiliary romantic relationship that would mislead anyone.

We should be clear, though, that the police affidavit suggests that perhaps this romantic relationship continued on for some time, so exactly what is the situation here isn't entirely clear right now at this point, but the fact remains that police in Austin are still searching for Kaitlin Armstrong in connection with this significant murder.

SCIUTTO: Yes, regardless of the circumstances, she's accused of shooting her to death. Ed Lavandera, thanks very much.

[10:45:00] HILL: Still ahead, the debate over Roe versus Wade again bringing attention to the eternal mortality rate here in the U.S. It's terrible for the record and it is incredibly bad for black women. Why? That's ahead.

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HILL: Louisiana Senator Bill Cassidy pushing back after recent comments he made on maternal mortality in his state, especially among black women, drew fire.

[10:50:00]

Here are those comments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): About a third of our population is African- American. And African-Americans have a higher incidence of maternal mortality. So, if you correct the population for race, we're not as much of an outlier as it would otherwise appear.

Now, I say that not to minimize the issue but to focus the issue as to where it would be. For whatever reason, people of color have a higher incidence of maternal mortality.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Senator Cassidy in a Twitter thread notes he was trying to bring attention to the disparity in maternal health, noting he sponsored several bills to address just that. The reality is this means, though, it is yet another important opportunity to talk about maternal health in this country, especially as the country braces for a Supreme Court decision that could overturn Roe v. Wade.

In the wake of that, a number of health experts are warning that widespread abortion bans could perhaps deepen the internal mortality crisis that already exists here in the U.S. Maternal mortality among the highest in this country, look at that, among developed nations.

According to the CDC, the U.S. maternal mortality rate increased from 20 deaths per 100 in 2019 to almost 24 in 2020. And it's important to point out, as bad as those numbers are, they are even worse for black women in this country who are three times more likely to die in pregnancy or childbirth compared to white women. Why is that?

Joining us to discuss, Dr. Ashanda Saint Jean, she is the chair of obstetrics and gynecology at Health Alliance Hospitals, which is a member of the Westchester Medical Center Health Network here in New York. Doctor, it's good to have you with us this morning.

The numbers are awful across the board but specifically when it comes to maternal health and well being, maternal mortality for black women. This has been an issue for so long in this country. Why is it so much worse for black women? ASHANDA SAINT JEAN, CHAIR, OBSTETRICS AND GYNECOLOGY, HEALTH ALLIANCE HOSPITALS: Yes. So, thank you so much for having me today. I think it's important to understand that structural racism has been a known driver for some of these numbers to be so elevated. And so when we've looked at studies where we've kind of qualified, you know, black women in terms of their insurance, in terms of their economic status, in terms of their education, they still have these very high numbers.

I am in New York City, where black women are 9.4 times more likely to die in childbirth than their white counterparts. And so we have to really look at the social determinants of health and the contributing factors that really contribute to these actually astonishing rates.

We know that the CDC and also the American Medical Association has stated that racism is a public health crisis. And so it's something we've really, really have to address, and also to level the playing field for all races. So, when we look at social determinants of health, we want to think about health care access, health care equity, food instability, unstable housing, transportation, there are an assortment of reasons why this is existing right now in the United States.

HILL: So, when we look at all of those reasons, I wonder how much is this addressed in medical school. How much is this something that you and your colleagues talk about? Because, full disclosure, I've talked with friends of mine in the medical community who have said, I didn't even realize it until maybe I was in that situation as a patient, and that it wasn't intentional but maybe black women aren't listened to in the same way. Why?

SAINT JEAN: Yes. I mean, I think that we have to think about infrastructural racism as well and implicit bias. And this is why there are many efforts across the country at different medical schools changing the curriculum, increasing implicit bias training, actually having healthcare disparity electives, making sure that this information is actually out spread to our future clinicians and leaders because, again, women are being impacted.

In addition to that, the CDC has had guidance in developing maternal mortality review committees. And so they are current over 31 states and jurisdictions across the country where we look at why are these deaths occurring, are they preventable and what are the contributing factors, so that we can actually turn a page and kind of change the course and prevent lives from families from losing their lives.

When we think about childbirth, this is the best day of someone's life. Well, we don't want it to be the worst.

HILL: Really quickly, we only have about 15 seconds, do you think that there will start to be a better focus on maternal health in this country because of what could possibly come in with the striking down of Roe v. Wade?

SAINT JEAN: I have to be hopeful. I have to be hopeful, because this has to change. There are too many patients dying. And I can tell you as a black woman, the worst part of my job is when I have a black patient who says, I don't want to die having my baby.

[10:55:04]

So, we have to be hopeful and we have to make sure this change occurs.

HILL: Doctor, it's so good and so important to have you with us this morning, thank you.

SAINT JEAN: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: And thanks so much to all of you for joining us today. I'm Jim Sciutto.

HILL: And I'm Erica Hill.

At This Hour with Kate Bolduan starts after this quick break. Stay with us.

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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm Kate Bolduan. Here is what we're watching At This Hour.

Defending Taiwan, President Biden says the U.S. would intervene militarily if China moves in, a statement that caught some of Biden's own aides off-guard.

[11:00:05]