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Biden: U.S. Will Respond Militarily If China Invades Taiwan; WH, Pentagon Insist No Policy Change After Biden's Taiwan Comments; Biden: U.S. Recession Is Not Inevitable; Second Baby Formula Flight From Overseas Due In U.S. In "Coming Days;" GA GOP Primary Next Big Test Of Trump Endorsement. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired May 23, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daniel Enriquez, the only victim of the shooting, the only person who was injured in that car. Again, he was 48 years old. He had worked at Goldman Sachs since 2013. The Firm today put out a statement, Alisyn, calling him a beloved member of the firm's family.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: It's horrible. Let's hope that they get that suspect soon. Alexandra Field, thank you.

It's the top of the hour on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Alisyn Camerota.

Beijing is firing back after President Biden promised the U.S. will respond militarily if China invades Taiwan. A Chinese official said moments ago, the U.S. is "playing with fire," because of these remarks from President Biden in Japan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You didn't want to get involved in the Ukraine conflict militarily for obvious reasons. Are you willing to get involved militarily to defend Taiwan if it comes to that?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are?

BIDEN: That's the commitment we made.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Now, a White House official and the Pentagon tried to walk back the President's comments, insisting the decades old policy of strategic ambiguity has not changed. But the defense secretary had a different explanation than the President when asked if Biden's comments could mean putting U.S. boots on the ground.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is the U.S. making a commitment to send troops to defend Taiwan in the event of an invasion by China?

LLOYD AUSTIN, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Our One China policy has not changed. He reiterated that policy and our commitment to peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: CNN's Jeremy Diamond is in Tokyo. So Jeremy, this is not the first time that President Biden said something like this about Taiwan.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Alisyn, it's certainly not and that is what is so critical to understanding President Biden's words here. Back in August, President Biden had said we would respond if there was an attack on Taiwan. Two months after that, he said that the U.S. had a commitment to protect Taiwan were to be invaded by China.

And now we have these comments, perhaps the most unequivocal that President Biden has made so far, in which he says that he would be willing to defend Taiwan militarily, intervene militarily were China to invade. Those comments unambiguous, without any caveat and yet, White House official, as you said now saying that the U.S.'s policy towards China has not changed.

I mean, if you listen to those words, it certainly seems like perhaps the One China policy which President Biden reiterated, remains in place. But the policy of strategic ambiguity, this notion that it's not clear whether or not the U.S. would rushed to Taiwan's aid militarily were China to invade seems to be tossed out by the President of the United States.

Now, China, as you said, is firing back now making very clear in a statement that the U.S. should refrain from violating its policies toward China, saying those who play with fire will certainly burn themselves and urging the United States not to stand against 1.4 billion Chinese people fairly ominous words from several Chinese spokespeople, Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Okay. Jeremy Diamond, thank you very much for reporting from Tokyo.

Joining us now is Ambassador Richard Haass. He's the President of the Council on Foreign Relations and the author of The World: A Brief Introduction. Richard, great to see you. Do you - I get the impression that you like what President Biden has said and that he has moved away from strategic ambiguity.

RICHARD HAASS, PRESIDENT, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: I do applaud what he said. I think it's long since overdue. This is the third time he said it, so hopefully the third time's a charm.

Let's just be clear here, Alisyn. Nothing in this policy of strategic ambiguity versus clarity is something between the United States and China. This is a unilateral implementation of the policy on our side. The only thing we've agreed with China is that we will continue to adhere to the One China policy. This doesn't change that.

China, in the meantime, has dramatically increased the amount of force it could use against Taiwan. They haven't been standing still. So I see no reason why we should stand still as things have changed over the last 40 years.

CAMEROTA: I mean, you understand politics and White House politics, why does this keep surprising the President's aides? Why are they keep walking it back?

HAASS: Well, actually, I'm with the President. I think his aides should stand down. It never looks good to have this kind of back and forth to begin with. I think it weakens deterrence. It certainly doesn't give allies a lot of confidence. But again, I think the President's right and for those who say, well, why aren't you directly helping Ukraine? Why are you offering this with Taiwan?

I think it's important to remember that in this case, the Allies and neighbors of Taiwan actually want us to make this commitment to get involved. And the last I checked, Taiwan is an island, Ukraine is not. Poland next door can be used to supply Ukraine as it is with military force.

[15:05:03]

We can't do that with Taiwan. It's much more difficult. Taiwan itself was not nearly as strong militarily as Ukraine, so what's worked there, I believe, would probably not work here. So again, I think it's time to take this step and I wish the White House aides would if you'll pardon the expression let Biden be Biden.

CAMEROTA: But to be clear, this is not the Ukraine model, as you point out. This is more than just supplying weaponry to Taiwan. I mean, this would be direct military intervention and that would - I mean, wouldn't that be quite complicated and dangerous against China?

HAASS: Absolutely. Just to be clear, we've never ruled out doing that. That's the whole idea of ambiguity. Now we would rule it in. And, yes, it would be potentially costly and dangerous. On the other hand, that's what deterrence is all about, you've got to make credible threats or promises, if you're going to be able to deter violence and we shouldn't kid ourselves.

If we stood by and China through the use of force gain control of Taiwan, does anyone think we would have anything left of an alliance system in Asia? Does anyone think countries like Japan would not probably go ahead and develop nuclear weapons? So sure, there's potential risks and costs in doing this, but people also have to weigh the costs and risks of not going in this direction.

CAMEROTA: I want to ask you about another possible development, this one in Ukraine, and that is that we have some reporting that the Biden administration is considering spending - sending Special Forces to protect the Embassy in Kyiv. Would that be mission creep?

HAASS: I don't think so. They would have a very limited mission, as you suggest (inaudible) self-defense of the embassy staff. The numbers would be too small to get involved in anything larger. So this is not the advanced element of American military intervention. Sometimes if things are just what you say they are. This would be essentially an enhanced version of the sort of marine presence we have in U.S. embassies around the world.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Ambassador Richard Haass, great to talk to you, as always.

HAASS: Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right. While in Tokyo, President Biden unveiled his economic plan to counter China's influence in Asia. The Indo-Pacific economic framework is a trade partnership aimed at improving the supply chain, promoting clean energy and fighting corruption. The President also told reporters he thinks the U.S. may be able to avoid a recession.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In your view, is a recession in the United States inevitable?

BIDEN: No. Our GDP is going to grow faster than China's for the first time in 40 years. Now, does that mean we don't have problems? We do. We have problems like the rest of the world has, but less consequential than the rest of the world has and because of our internal growth and strength.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: CNN White House Correspondent John Harwood joins us now. John, great to see you. So is this about untangling the U.S. from China or diminishing China's power?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's an attempt to constrain China's economic power and enhance the American presence in the region. It's kind of a weak substitute, though, for the more ambitious agreement that was negotiated by President Obama in - that was discarded by President Trump, the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

And now even Democrats are not interested in bringing that back up. It's very difficult to get a trade deal through Congress now because of concern about lost American jobs. So this is an attempt as the President's in Asia to have something on the table economically, but it wouldn't do all that much to be honest.

CAMEROTA: You have a piece for cnn.com right now saying that Washington cannot have an honest conversation or debate about inflation. Why not?

HARWOOD: Well, mainly because the sideshow gets treated as the main show. And by the side show, I mean, actions the President has taken, actions the President might take to curb inflation. Those are on the margins of solutions to inflation. The real game is the Federal Reserve. They've started to raise interest rates. And the question about whether or not we have a recession, you played that clip from President Biden earlier, that's really going to turn on how skillful the Federal Reserve is in trying to cool down this economy, raise interest rates enough without tipping the economy into recession. But the things, the rhetoric the President uses or the steps the

President takes releasing oil from the strategic reserve or denouncing greedy corporations or all that sort of political talk isn't going to do very much. It's - the inflation control principally rests with the Federal Reserve and so Jerome Powell is the person who - we really should be looking to. Unfortunately, the Fed does not have daily press briefings. The White House does. That's why the attention is focused on the president.

CAMEROTA: I mean, obviously, it's so much bigger than just in the U.S. as the IMF Managing Director alluded to today, there's this, what they called a confluence of calamities I'll read it to you.

[15:10:07]

They said, "Russia's invasion of Ukraine has compounded the COVID-19 pandemic - a crisis upon a crisis - devastating lives, dragging down growth, pushing up inflation. Add to this the sharply increased volatility in financial markets and the continuing threat of climate change, and we face a potential confluence of calamities."

But politically speaking, as you were just saying, polls suggests that Americans are holding President Biden responsible for much of this.

HARWOOD: Absolutely, they are. And when you're the incumbent president and you're facing an election, especially a midterm election, the country's problems become your problems. There's simply no avoiding that. Bill Clinton found that out. Ronald Reagan found that out. Barack Obama found that out and now Joe Biden is as well and that is a correct assessment.

There are a lot of clouds surfacing. It does not (inaudible) this year, but (inaudible) the risks are elevated going forward and what we've seen in the stock market adds another wrinkle there because the poorer people feel, the more likely they'll pull back.

The one positive sign for the economy is that as negative as people are, when they answer a pollster about what do you think about the economy and how Biden is handling it, those numbers are very low. People are still spending and so the fact that you had a lot of stimulus checks go out, people still have, compared to pre pandemic levels, pretty decent amounts of money in the bank means that there's a little bit of cushion under the problems that we're facing and President Biden has to hope that cushion helps him a little bit at least going into November.

CAMEROTA: Right. And there's silver lining among storm clouds. John Harwood, thank you.

HARWOOD: You bet.

CAMEROTA: Okay. So America's baby formula crisis has left many parents desperate. Next, we're going to speak to one mom who turned to Facebook for help and ended up getting scammed.

And there's a manhunt underway in Texas involving the death of a professional cyclist and a possible love triangle. More on that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:16:23]

CAMEROTA: The White House says a second flight with baby formula from overseas is expected to take off from Germany this week, 35 tons of formula from Europe arrived in Indianapolis Sunday morning, but will not hit store shelves. Instead it will be distributed to hospitals and pharmacies. And until retailers are restocked, desperate parents are having to get creative. They're asking friends and family and even strangers for help finding formula.

The Federal Trade Commission put out this warning about online scammers who are taking advantage of this shortage. My next guest drove to four different states to find formula for her four month old baby girl. So when a seller on Facebook claimed to have five cans of her daughter's formula, she was grateful and sent money but the formula never arrived.

April Krogmeier is that mom and she joins us now. April, thanks so much for being here. So you communicated with this scammer? Tell me what they promised you.

APRIL KROGMEIER, MOM DUPED BY BABY FORMULA SCAM ON SOCIAL MEDIA: So I joined a formula shortage group - well, based in Iowa and it became so large it actually is going throughout the United States. So I came across another mom that was looking for the same formula as my daughter.

And in the comments, a woman said, "I have five cases of this formula." So I asked a couple of questions and she told me it's $10 a can and then I just messaged her. I was like this is meant to be, I'm desperate, we need it and just went through the transaction. And she said that I could pay on Facebook pay and I did that. I guess I should have been smarter about it, but I was pretty desperate at that time.

CAMEROTA: Yes, of course, you're desperate.

KROGMEIER: (Inaudible)--

CAMEROTA: I mean - yes. And I mean, you have a specified - a specialized, I should say, formula, the Enfamil Gentle that your daughter can only drink.

KROGMEIER: Yes.

CAMEROTA: And I know that you also thought who would scam a desperate mother?

KROGMEIER: Yes. It's quite unbelievable. But now it's a matter of this is happening all over. There's parents all over that are desperate to get formula for their babies. I know for us, we are very fortunate and we can work with our doctor and we can get acid reflux medication to assist in making regular formula, be a little easier on her stomach. But there's some parents out there that don't have that luxury. Their

babies are absolutely allergic to formula.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

KROGMEIER: And people are going through. They're buying this formula and they're up selling it. So can a can you get for $45, they're selling for $80 or a hundred and this is disgusting.

CAMEROTA: All right. I mean, it's all - it's just - as you point out it's disgusting, it's horrible. But you weren't desperate, I mean, at one time because ...

KROGMEIER: Yes.

CAMEROTA: ... you drove to four different states. I mean, tell us about that experience, how time consuming was that?

KROGMEIER: Well, we - it's every day every night, it's checking our phones, it's researching stores. It takes up everything in us, every resource, everything. So having to drive places, you're not guaranteed that the stock that they say is there is going to be there. So we're just taking chances at this point.

[15:20:00]

We do have family looking in other states. We have friends looking in other states. We just - we have to make sure that we don't go through our last camp.

CAMEROTA: And when will that happen?

KROGMEIER: Right now, we have a couple of months available to us and we're hoping, the formula that's coming in, we're hoping that we can get our hands on it.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

KROGMEIER: Otherwise, we will be switching to the normal.

CAMEROTA: Yes. I should also mention, you have a full time job and a lot of children. We keep showing a picture of your family.

KROGMEIER: Yes, I do.

CAMEROTA: So you are a busy woman. Is there any ...

KROGMEIER: Yes.

CAMEROTA: ... is there any recourse, I mean, for getting your money back from this scammer? Have you contacted the authorities?

KROGMEIER: So we haven't had any luck getting the money back. I spoke with the bank and they said that we can go through our - through - just call the number on the back of our card to see if they can submit a fraud case. However, it hasn't been successful yet. It's been about a week since we lost that money.

I think the main thing right now is we want to get the word out, just reach out to people that have babies, reach out to friends, to family help them look, that's the main thing. We lost $120, but we don't want other people to have to lose money.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Well, we appreciate you helping to sound the alarm here and everybody needs to be on the lookout for scammers, because people are taking advantage of this desperate situation. April Krogmeier, thanks so much for sharing your family's story and we're wishing you the best of luck with all this.

KROGMEIER: Thank you so much.

CAMEROTA: Well, it's primary eve in several states and a true test of former President Trump's grip on the Republican Party is on display in Georgia where the Republican Governor matchup is pitting the former president against his old vice president, Mike Pence. What's going to happen?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:26:46]

CAMEROTA: We have a quick update on the Pennsylvania GOP Senate primary. The Trump-backed candidate, Dr. Mehmet Oz is up now by less than 1,000 votes over Dave McCormick. We will stay on top of these numbers and all the latest developments from this race and bring them to you.

Meanwhile, tomorrow's primary races will serve as the biggest test so far of the Donald Trump endorsement. One big race to watch is for Georgia's Governor. Polls indicate that Trump-backed David Perdue is trailing incumbent Brian Kemp. And in Alabama's GOP race for Senate, Congressman Mo Brooks who had a public falling out with Donald Trump is now climbing in the polls.

CNN's Eva McKend is covering the primaries in Georgia and CNN's Dianne Gallagher is following the voters in Alabama. But Eva, let's start with you. So Gov. Kemp will be something with Mike Pence in a few hours, what's happening?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: Yes, that's right, Alisyn. We've seen the full weight of the Republican establishment not only in Georgia, but across the country throw their support behind Gov. Kemp. This indicates the potency of Trump's election lie could be waning. For years Trump has held on to this grudge, hammering Kemp for not doing more to intervene on Trump's behalf in Georgia to help Trump essentially steal the election.

Well, it turns out when you talk to Republican voters in this state, they are concerned about other issues beyond Trump's grievances. While former Vice President Pence will be on stage with Trump, Trump will hold a tell rally in the final stretch here with Perdue but it might be too little too late. Alisyn, something else to take note of is the sizable amount of

Georgians who have come out to vote during the early vote period, more than 800,000 Republicans and Democrats voted early. And what we've seen is Republican's seize on this arguing Democrats cried wolf when they characterized SB 202 as a voter suppression law. We asked Stacey Abrams, Georgia's Democratic candidate for governor about this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STACEY ABRAMS, (D) GEORGIA GOVERNOR CANDIDATE: But we have to remember that voter suppression isn't about stopping every voter. It's about blocking and impeding those voters who are considered inconvenient. The moral equivalent of saying that voter turnout diffuses or disproves voter suppression is like saying that more people getting in the water means they're no longer any sharks. Those two things are just not true.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCKEND: So this is something that we are going to continue to monitor. There is less turmoil on the Democratic side, because Abrams who you just saw there is running uncontested in her race, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Eva McKend, thank you for that.

Let's go now to Dianne. So Dianne, set the scene for us in Alabama and what's happened with Mo Brooks?

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, all due respect to my colleagues in Georgia, but what's happening in this Alabama Republican Senate race may be the most interesting last minute developments that we're seeing this week and that all has to do with Congressman Mo Brooks. And, of course, he's been subpoenaed by the January 6 Committee. He has been on the campaign trail trying to avoid the elephant in the room and that is, of course, former President Donald Trump once his ally, now, well, not so much. He rescinded his endorsement of Brooks nearly two months ago.

[15:30:00]