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DOJ Will Change Its Policy On Use Of Force; Biden Administration Officials: Blocking Title 42 Won't Slow Down Surge Of Migrants; Ukrainian Forces Using Cutting-Edge Foreign-Made Drones To Fight Russian Troops; Ukrainian Families Cope With Trauma; U.S. To Release Monkeypox Vaccine. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired May 24, 2022 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:31:57]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: For the first time in nearly two decades, the Justice Department is changing its policy on use of force. The new policy says federal agents now have a duty to intervene if they see other law enforcement officials using excessive force.

CNN's senior justice correspondent Evan Perez joining me now.

So, this is a major move, Evan, but it's important to point out the overall impact could be a little bit more limited than perhaps what the headline suggests.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right, Erica. Right -- for now this is a memo from the attorney general, it was issued on Friday, that applies only to the -- the majorly -- the law enforcement agencies under his control. Those are the ATF, the FBI, the Bureau of Prisons, the DEA. But this is part of a broader set of changes that we're going to see in the coming days from the Biden administration.

We are expecting that when the president comes back from his -- from his Asian travel he will announce some police reform measures that we've long expected that he's been pushing for in Congress for now, you know, a couple years and has been blocked by Republican opposition.

And so -- but, for now, this change basically says that law enforcement officers have to intervene and render aid if they see another officer using excessive force. I'll say -- I'll read just a part of what the attorney general's memo says. Officers will be trained in and must recognize and act upon the affirmative duty to intervene to prevent or stop any appropriate officer -- any officer from engaging in excessive force or any other use of force that violates the Constitution.

We expect President Biden, as part of his police reform push, again, which could be announced as soon as Wednesday, that he is going to expand this order from the Justice Department to other agencies that are a part of the federal law enforcement agency. So, we expect that that's going to be part of this. We also expect that the president will encourage state and local law enforcement to abide by standards. Again, this is something that they've been pushing for, for a couple of years.

Erica. Jim.

HILL: All right, Evan, appreciate the update. Thank you.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: New this morning, Biden administration officials say a court ruling blocking the termination of Title 42, as it's known, will not slow the surge of migrants at the southern border. The number of migrants seeking asylum here in the U.S. is at record levels again. It comes amid deteriorating conditions in Latin America, exacerbated by the ongoing pandemic.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez has been following this for us.

There's so many dynamics to this because like on the one hand you'll hear from Republicans, Title 42 is -- they'll sort of portray it as a solution here, but it has some downsides, right, that you were just explaining to me. So tell us the status so folks at home understand what's going on.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN REPORTER: So, the downside that Department of Homeland Security officials repeatedly point to is what's known as recidivism. What that means is that if someone crosses the border under Title 42 and is expelled, there's no consequence, which means that they can cross the border multiple times, or attempt to.

SCIUTTO: They can keep coming back.

ALVAREZ: They can keep coming back.

[09:35:01]

SCIUTTO: OK.

ALVAREZ: Whereas, under immigration law, there's immigration consequence. Therefore, somebody may be discouraged to try again because the consequences will be levied against them.

SCIUTTO: So while Title 42 gave the U.S. the ability to say, hey, it's a pandemic, we've got to turn you back, the trouble is, you could just keep coming back, right, and kind of take multiple tries.

ALVAREZ: Yes, some 30 percent of people a month are trying more than once to cross the U.S./Mexico border.

SCIUTTO: Wow.

ALVAREZ: And that requires resources, even if it doesn't require a whole lot of processing.

But, Jim, the problem too here is the nationalities the administration is facing. Forty percent of people who cross the U.S./Mexico border are from places other than Mexico and the northern triangle countries of Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras. That's a massive change. And it really speaks to the instability in the western hemisphere that people are moving throughout Latin America to come to the U.S./Mexico border regardless of Title 42 being in place or not.

SCIUTTO: And part of the admin strategy early on was been to try to give those countries help to solve the problems at home so more people don't come. But, I mean, that's not - those aren't problems you solve in a couple months or a couple years.

ALVAREZ: No, it takes a lot of time and there's changing administrations. So, there can be different policies as to how exactly we address the issues in the hemisphere. And that's really what the Biden administration is focusing on now and stressing in their relations with Latin America to try to stem the flow of people as they make their way through these countries, either building up their resettlement processes, or they're bolstering their enforcement.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Goodness. And not a lot is working.

Meanwhile, there's no comprehensive reform to U.S. immigration policy.

Priscilla Alvarez, thanks so much.

Erica, it feels like we have this conversation all the time.

HILL: It does sound like we've been here before. Yes, it does.

SCIUTTO: You know. Yes.

HILL: Want to update you on some information out of New York. The NYPD, we've learned, has recovered the gun investigators believe was used in that fatal shooting of a man on the New York City subway over the weekend. Authorities are still searching for the suspect. Last seen on surveillance video handing off the gun to a man a source described to CNN as being a homeless person.

Forty-eight-year-old Daniel Enriquez was fatally shot while riding the subway from Brooklyn into Manhattan on Sunday morning.

SCIUTTO: So sad. So sad for him and his family.

Well, for the very first time we are seeing how Ukrainian special forces are using what are known as kamikaze drones provided by the U.S. You'll get a look at them in action. We're live from Kyiv after a short break.

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[09:41:59]

SCIUTTO: View from the battlefield. We are seeing new video of Ukrainian forces using cutting edge foreign made drones to fight Russian troops. This video is from a kamikaze drone, as it's known, a switch blade -- goodness -- armed with powerful explosives, moments before it smashes into a Russian tank with, it appears, Russian soldiers on the top of the tank at the time.

HILL: CNN's Melissa Bell is in Kyiv this morning.

So, Melissa, Ukraine says that this video illustrates how western weapons are helping in its fight against Russia.

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Extraordinary video that was posted by the Ukrainian army in a Facebook post that it shows just those extraordinary pictures of what looks like a kamikaze drone hitting that Russian tank.

Now, just a bit of background on some of those kamikaze drones. We know that the United States has provided 100 switch blade drones to the Ukrainian armed forces. Now, the advantage that they have tactically on the field is that they can be fired from a distance. So from about 25 miles, which means that their use, by being able to be fired from a distance, is they could give an asymmetrical advantage to Ukrainian forces as they try and target tank and artillery positions on the Russian side.

This is the first confirmed use of a kamikaze drone, we're trying to get more on exactly whether or not it is one of those that were donated by the United States to help Ukraine's fight, but just extraordinary pictures in the meantime of showing that high tech weaponry being used on the battlefield with all the potential advantages it might mean for Ukraine's fight.

SCIUTTO: No question.

Melissa, we are hearing yet another disturbing report out of Mariupol, where so many civilian buildings were targets. Officials there say they found perhaps hundreds of remains in the ruins of one high rise. What do we know?

BELL: Jim, the picture that's emerging from Mariupol is a devastating one. Bear in mind that we cannot get reporters into the Russian- controlled side of Ukraine. So, what we're hearing, we're hearing from officials who are inside this city that only fell officially on Friday night when the last of those Azovstal fighters were handed over, or evacuated, rather, becoming prisoners of war of the Russian forces. What we're hearing is from an adviser to the Ukrainian mayor of Mariupol.

Remember that Mariupol was one of those town, the center of a particularly bloody siege from almost the start of the war, razed to the ground for much of it. And what we're beginning to hear from those officials, first of all, as you mentioned, Jim, that confirmation, according to that mayor's adviser, that 200 bodies have been found in the cellar of a building. No doubt the victims of some of that shelling.

But the broader picture that we're beginning to hear from sources on the ground and Ukrainian officials specifically is that there could be tens of thousands of dead as a result of that bloody fight for Mariupol. The difficulty, as ever, Jim and Erica, is finding out exactly what's happening on the ground ourselves.

SCIUTTO: Tens of thousands. Goodness. HILL: Yes, absolutely. It's -- yes, and since, as you point out,

Melissa, we can't -- we can't get in there.

[09:45:01]

Our teams can't get in there.

Appreciate it. Thank you.

Well, following Russia's relentless bombardment and gruesome attacks in Ukraine, a number of Ukrainians are now afraid, and understandably traumatized.

SCIUTTO: Of course, they would be. A civilian toll of this is just horrendous.

CNN spoke to an American psychiatrist who's traveled to Ukraine to give people some of the tools they need to cope with unseen emotional wounds, many of which can last years.

CNN's Suzanne Malveaux reports from Ukraine. A warning, and I know we have to give you this warning often, but some of the images may be disturbing.

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SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In the cities of Bucha and Irpin, the streets are quiet, the sun shines brightly. The Russian forces that committed gruesome crimes just weeks ago are gone.

As part of a therapy exercise with her family, eight-year-old Sophia Balacova (ph) is asked to draw what it was like for her during the fighting.

DR. JIM GORDON, PSYCHIATRIST, CENTER FOR MIND-BODY MEDICINE: Tell me what the picture is of.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): The Russian warrior killed -- kills -- is killing the child.

MALVEAUX: American psychiatrist Dr. Jim Gordon is in Ukraine, working with local partners, to develop an urgent program to address the overwhelming trauma here.

GORDON: Most important thing, first, is to say to people, there is a possibility of change. This isn't necessarily permanent. There is hope.

ANGELINA KASYANOVA, IRPIN RESIDENT: Stay hidden from tanks, from bombs, everything.

MALVEAUX: For 19-year-old Angelina Kasyanova, her worst nightmare was realized. Bombarded here in Irpin, after already fleeing her childhood home in the east, when Russia attacked in 2014.

KASYANOVA: Trauma of the war are with me for eight years. It was my family, we sleep in this room.

MALVEAUX: Angelina and her family sheltered in the basement with their neighbors for more than a week.

KASYANOVA: I was sleep here when it was bombed.

MALVEAUX: Outside, dead bodies were found in the streets.

KASYANOVA: It's very hard to understand that you may be can lost your home again. And you afraid that you can die.

MALVEAUX: Now Gordon teaches her techniques to help cope, using deep breathing and movement.

GORDON: The shaking and dancing allows people those trauma frozen bodies to melt a little bit.

Just shake.

MALVEAUX: Angelina, who now counsels children who have lost their parents, will join a workshop Gordon is offering on how to fight trauma during what is expected to be a long conflict.

GORDON: Really nice to see them.

MALVEAUX: The Okata family is on the move and facing multiple crises. Living in a shelter with four children in western Ukraine's Lviv since fleeing their home in the east. A missile attack at their neighborhood train station traumatized the children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They ran home and hid themselves under the beds.

MALVEAUX: Gordon asked them to draw, and their pictures are dark.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a grave.

GORDON: A grave.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a grave.

MALVEAUX: For 13-year-old Nastya --

GORDON: She draws herself collapsed on the ground in a state of total terror with the railway station blowing up.

MALVEAUX: Nastya's mother reveals she cannot express her own emotions, she has to be strong for her children. Her daughter is overwhelmed with grief.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The pain fades a little, but still I want to go home.

MALVEAUX (on camera): In due time, do you think you will?

NASTYA OKATA, FLED FROM PAVLOHRAD: Yes.

MALVEAUX (voice over): Her family's future, she imagines, a little brighter. A first step to healing.

Suzanne Malveaux, CNN, Lviv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: And, Jim, as you know, that trauma's so deep and affecting so many.

When I was at one of the refugee centers in Warsaw, I spoke with a psychologist, a Ukrainian refugee herself, who was volunteering her time there at the shelter for refugees. And one of the things she told me, I saw all of the things in her office for kids, crayons and toys to play with. I said, are a lot of children coming in to speak with you? And she said their parents are bringing them in, but oftentimes she was noticing that when the parents bring the children, it's the parents who needed someone to speak with even more than their kids.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Listen, we know from conflicts like this that those emotional wounds, that trauma, can last many years afterwards. You know, the lucky ones survive. And that's something in itself. But the wounds, certainly the physical ones, but also the emotional ones, last a long, long time.

HILL: Yes.

SCIUTTO: I mean, you know, this -- Ukraine's going to have to live with this for so much time to come.

HILL: Yes. And for some it's trauma on top of trauma, right, especially those remembering what happened eight years ago.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: Well, still to come here, monkeypox cases spreading now. It's important to note, it is still very, very rare. What you need to know and what the CDC now says it's doing about it, next.

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[09:54:21]

HILL: In response to the global outbreak of monkeypox, the U.S. is working to release a vaccine from the nation's strategic national stockpile. So far there's one confirmed case of monkeypox here in the United States. At least six suspected cases that are being monitored.

SCIUTTO: Let's be clear, this remains a very rare virus. Only 250 confirmed and suspected cases of monkeypox worldwide.

Here with us now, CNN health reporter Jacqueline Howard.

Of course, the other caveat we always mention, far less transmissible than something like Covid.

So, tell us what the CDC is saying here, how many at risk, who particularly, and what they expect to happen going forward? JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Well, the risk to the general

public is still low, but the latest development here, Jim, officials are in the process of releasing vaccine specifically for health care workers.

[09:55:10]

We heard from Dr. Raj Panjabi. He is coordinating the White House's monkeypox response. And he said to our colleague Laura Coates just last night that some vaccines is being offered to health care workers.

Have a listen.

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DR. RAJ PANJABI, SENIOR DIRECTOR FOR GLOBAL HEALTH, SECURITY AND BIODEFENSE ON WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: Even with the first case in Boston, at Massachusetts General Hospital, our colleagues across the government have been able to get vaccines to that hospital. And just yesterday they've already started offering the vaccines to health care workers who have been exposed.

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HOWARD: And we do know from CDC officials that there are more than a thousand doses of the vaccine that's licensed for monkeypox here in the U.S. The CDC estimates it's 85 percent effective. And it's given in two doses four weeks apart.

But another interesting development that I want to share with you, Jim and Erica. Health officials are also looking at how the cases of this outbreak are presenting. We know that the symptoms of monkeypox infection includes flu-like symptoms, swollen lymph nodes, fever, headaches, and then you develop a rash and lesions all over the body. But we heard from officials that some of the cases in this outbreak, the rashes, a high proportion of the cases are causing rashes in the groin and genital area. So that's one part of the investigation that's being closely looked at as well.

SCIUTTO: Jacqueline Howard, thanks so much for the latest.

HILL: Just ahead, it is primary day, and a lot of focus on the state of Georgia, which is being described by some as a bit of a proxy war between former Vice President Mike Pence and former President Donald Trump. What do some of today's contests mean about the future of the Republican Party? Our live team coverage, next.

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