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19 Children, 2 Teachers Killed in Texas Elementary School Shooting; Official Says, Gunman Was on Scene At Least 30 Minutes Before Being Shot; Biden to Lawmakers, Turn This Pain Into Action. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired May 25, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you for joining us on what is a sad morning in this country. I'm Jim Sciutto.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Erica Hill.

It is sad. It is a tragedy in Texas. At least 19 children, 2 adults gunned down after an 18-year-old opened fire at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas. This is a recurring nightmare that only seems to happen in this country.

Let's get you caught up on what we know at this hour.

Officials say the gunman did act alone. He allegedly shot his grandmother before carrying out the massacre at the school. His grandmother is now fighting for her life in a hospital. Authorities say the suspect is dead, killed by law enforcement.

SCIUTTO: We find it painful, trust me, to read these headlines as much as you must find it painful to hear them, but here are the facts as we know them. We're learning that officers responding to the scene faced gunfire from the suspects. Several of those first responders were wounded. We know he was wearing a tactical vest, as it's known, but that vest did not have the bullet-proof or ballistic plates in it.

It remains unclear exactly what weapons the killer used. These photos, however, show two AR-15-style rifles posted to an Instagram account linked to the gunman and one of his social media bios read, quote, kids, be scared.

Now, listen to this. One of the first responders to this shooting, Uvalde City Councilmember Chip King, also a member of the fire department, told us what the scene was like when he arrived and also how long it took before that killer was neutralized.

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CHIP KING, MEMBER, UVALDE CITY COUNCIL (voice over): It was evidence that it was not a secure scene, that there was a lot still going on here. It was a very chaotic scene initially. It was probably 30 minutes after we arrived, after I arrived, I know that, that the shooter was neutralized.

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SCIUTTO: 30 minutes after a member of the fire department arrived there. Not clear when the first first responders arrived, how much before that timeframe.

CNN Crime and Justice Correspondent Shimon Prokupecz, he is near the school there. CNN Correspondent Rosa Flores is at the hospital where some of the victims were taken.

Shimon, first, you spoke with Lieutenant Chris Olivarez. He's at the Texas Department of Public Safety earlier. I wonder, what did he say about the response from first responders including what we're learning about the timeline here?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, he certainly paints a chaotic scene when officers first arrived here, first get to the scene, and then what transpires in the moments after the gunman enters the school and how he barricaded himself inside this classroom. And we've learned that in that classroom is where everyone was shot, everyone who died and everyone who was injured.

He talked about some of the difficulty the tactical teams faced when they got here and some additional information. Take a listen.

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LT. CHRIS OLIVAREZ, SPOKESMAN, TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY: The initial group of officers that were on scene, at that point, they were at a point of disadvantage because the shooter was able to barricade himself inside that classroom. There was not sufficient manpower at that time. And their primary focus was to preserve any further loss of life. So, they started breaking windows around the school and trying to rescue, evacuate children and teachers while that was going on.

At that point, we had a specialized tactical team arrive comprised of federal officers, local police officers as well. They made forcible entry into the classroom. One of those officers was met with gunfire. He was shot, non-life-threatening injury. At that point, they're able to shoot and kill the shooter.

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PROKUPECZ: And so, certainly, you know, he describes a chaotic kind of officers taking on gunfire, exchanging gunfire with a suspect, trying to figure out how to neutralize them. And it seems, as you said, Jim, based on that interview with that first responder, it seems it took some time to stop him. So, we're waiting for more information exactly on the whole timeline.

The other thing, Jim, very important is for the families. The lieutenant that we spoke to there said that the families all have been notified of their loved one's children, the adults who died, that they've identified all of them. So, certainly, for the families, some news where they can begin the healing process, but certainly, this community is facing some really tough days ahead of them.

Law enforcement continues to be here on the scene. We're seeing the FBI now here with evidence response unit and the Texas Rangers, as they continue this investigation. But also the big question is what triggered this. It's not entirely clear that the school here was the intended target of this gunman.

[10:05:03]

The lieutenant here telling us that that's something that they're investigating because, remember, he crashes into this ditch and then police say is when he exits the car and then goes into the school. The question is, how did he get inside the school. That is something that the police are also trying to figure out.

So, Jim and Erica, there are still a lot of questions and we hope that later this afternoon when we hear from the officials, they'll be able to answer some of them.

HILL: Yes, but two really important ones that you just raised there, whether the school was initially a target, Shimon, and also, perhaps, most importantly, how he was able to get inside. Stay with us, Shimon.

I also want to bring in Rosa Flores who is there for us. Rosa, as Shimon pointed out, all of the families have now been notified, the families who did lose loved ones. And we are starting to learn more about those victims. There are also still people in the hospital. What more can you tell us?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, we've learned from multiple hospital systems that at least 20 people were transferred to various hospitals, including the hospital that you see behind me. We've just learned from this hospital that all of the patients here have been either discharged or transferred to other hospitals. We're also learning from University Health in San Antonio that at least four patients are still there, a 66-year-old woman who's in serious condition, a ten-year-old girl in serious condition, another ten-year- old girl in good condition, and a nine-year-old girl in good condition.

We're also learning more about the victims. Even though all of the victims have been identified, as authorities have said, not all of the names have been released to the public as is normal procedure in these particular cases. Usually, either the medical examiner's office or the lead investigating agency will be issuing those names soon. For now, we do have the names of a few of the victims and a little bit about who they are from their families. We have the names of two ten-year- olds and also, one of the teachers who died.

First of all, ten-year-old Javier Lopez, his mother, Felicia Martinez, telling The Washington Post that just hours before this tragedy, she was with her son while he was getting his honor roll certificate. This mother says that she told her son in this last encounter that she was proud of him, that she loved him. She gave him a hug, not knowing that that would be the last hug that that mother would give her child.

She also told The Washington Post the following. He was funny, never serious, and his smile, that smile, I will never forget. It would always cheer anyone up. He really couldn't wait to go to middle school. That's one of the other things that this mother says that this little boy was counting the days to go to middle school. Now, his mother is going to have to plan a funeral.

Here's the name of another victim, ten-year-old Amerie Jo Garza. Her father identified her on Facebook, taking to Facebook to say the following. Quote, thank you everyone, for the prayers and help trying to find my baby. She's been found. My little love is now flying high with the angels above. Please don't take a second for granted. Hug your family. Tell them you love them. I love you, Amerie Jo. Watch over your baby brother for me.

Another victim is a teacher, a fourth grade teacher, Eva Mireles. Her aunt confirmed to CNN that she was one of the victims and from the website, from the school website, we've been able to confirm that she was an educator for 17 years. She enjoyed running and hiking and biking and being with her family.

Her aunt told CNN affiliate in KSAT from San Antonio, quote, I never imagined this would happen to -- especially to loved ones. All we can do is pray hard for our country, state, schools and especially the families of all.

Again, these are just three of the 19 children and two adults who have died. And Erica and Jim, I was just talking to a woman who was walking out of this hospital and she was telling me that even though she doesn't particularly know anyone from these classrooms, she says, everybody knows everybody in this small community and that her daughter is here for an unrelated matter at this hospital. A 13-year- old girl who's crying now because, just imagine, her school, her community now impacted in this way.

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Hearts are very heavy here this morning. Erica and Jim?

HILL: Yes, it is understandable, and the ripple effect, the impact on this community, that will be felt forever, frankly. Rosa, Shimon, thank you both.

Joining us now, former Philadelphia Police Commissioner and former Washington, D.C., Police Chief Charles Ramsey. Always, good to have you with us, to have your expertise in these moments.

I do want to talk about --

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Thank you.

HILL: Let's start with the timeline, because Shimon pointed out, and Jim and I talked about this throughout the morning, two of the glaring questions that we're trying to answer this morning, understanding that this is still early in the investigation is, was that response appropriate and how was this shooter able to get into the school and perhaps be barricaded in the classroom for such a long time? Based on what you've learned so far in the last several hours, where do you think this investigation is heading?

RAMSEY: Well, there's still a lot of unanswered questions. And you're right, I mean, 30 minutes is a long time, and it's not consistent with the kind of active shooter training that I have been exposed to.

Now, I don't know if the officers have body worn cameras. Certainly, there's radio traffic that needs to be listened to, to find out exactly what it was that was going on, but it appears as if 30 minutes had lapsed from the time he barricaded himself into that classroom to the time a dynamic entry was made by the squad unit.

I would imagine that other units responded shortly after the first couple of officers were there, and the training and that's assuming that this agency received that training, you form up into groups and you go in and you do everything you can to try to neutralize the threat, which means, in this case, you would use lethal force against this individual in order to stop the killing.

So, there's a lot that we need to find out, because, quite frankly, 30 minutes is not consistent with the training, but there could be reason for that. I don't know, but that's got to be part of the investigation.

SCIUTTO: Chief Ramsey, you know the politics of gun and gun control measures in this country. When I speak, for instance, to police in a city like New York, they say quite simply, more guns equal more gun violence.

You led police departments in two major cities in this country that had their experience of gun violence. What's your view?

RAMSEY: Well, there has to be some reasonable safeguards and controls on firearms. You know, listen, people hide behind the Second Amendment. And do you really think the founding fathers would be okay with what's going on right now with people entering schools and slaughtering children going into grocery stores, slaughtering people, going into places of worship and slaughtering people? I don't think so.

And so whereas the right to bear arms is one thing, that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be some controls in place to do everything you can to prevent the wrong people from getting their hands on firearms. And so background checks, dealing with people that are suffering from certain forms of mental illness where they don't make good decisions. I mean, watching an 18-year-old being able to buy an assault weapon. I mean, you're an 18-year-old and you want to handle an assault weapon? Join the Army.

I mean, so, there are things that we can do, rather than just say, well, there's nothing we can do because of the Second Amendment. We've got elected officials that, for whatever reason, just do not take action. I personally think they care more about money and their own personal power than they do about the lives of people in this country that are being lost every single day, not in mass shootings but one, two, three at a time on streets of our city, and we've got to do something about it. It's ridiculous. It is an epidemic.

HILL: Do you have the sense that some of the lawmakers that you're referencing, that they want to engage with someone like yourself who has such important experience, right, having led departments in major cities? Do you sense that they want to hear what you have to say?

RAMSEY: No, I don't think so. No, I don't think so. I mean, listen, I'm not the first person to say this. I mean, where are they? They're quiet right now. I mean, they're not going to say anything. They're going to kind of hunker down, because they count on one thing and that is the short memories that the American people have.

We're all upset about it. We're talking about this right now. What are we going to be talking about ten days from now? And so they bank on the fact that people will not remember.

But, see, this is an important period of time. This is an election year. And it is time for people to really take this seriously and ask questions to people that are running. And we're not trying to get rid of all guns, but you aren't favor of background checks, aren't in favor of doing everything you can to get guns out of the hands of people.

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You aren't for getting rid of ghost guns, for getting rid of the attachments that can turn a semiautomatic into a fully automatic firearm. I mean, where do you stand on these things, and kick them out, kick them out. I mean, we've got to do something, not a moment of silence. This is the moment for loud voices, to really be heard, and let people know exactly how we feel. Enough is enough.

Now, I don't think that's going to happen, to be honest with you. I think we'll be doing this again. The only question is when and where. And next time, next time, anybody who's watching, it could be your child, it could be your parent, your brother or sister who is slaughtered in one of these mass shooting incidents.

SCIUTTO: Well, Chief Ramsey, I was thinking that very same thing last night. Where next and, sadly, how close to home? Always good to have you on. I appreciate you joining us this morning.

RAMSEY: Thank you. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead, we're going to speak with Texas Congressman Joaquin Castro, his state now the site of at least four of the country's ten deadliest mass shootings. President Biden says, as you've heard him and others say before, it's time for lawmakers to act.

HILL: Plus, you'll hear from the woman who took this video who lives just two doors down from Robb Elementary School. She says, instead of the usual laughter and chatter from the schoolyard, she was counting the number of ambulances rushing to that scene. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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SCIUTTO: Familiar sight at the White House this morning, flags at half staff again for the victims of a school shooting, or shooting anywhere. This time, it's Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, as we've been reporting. Understandably, people with hard questions, questions, they've asked before, questions they don't get answers to, frankly.

Last hour, I spoke with Democratic Senator Chris Murphy who challenged his Republican colleagues to break the stalemate on gun legislation.

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SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): Just because a ban on murder in this country doesn't prevent murders from happening, that doesn't mean we legalize murder, right? Because we know by making it illegal, we reduce the likelihood that it happens. So, by making it illegal for people to have 30 round magazines, that doesn't mean that no one will come in possession of 30 round magazines but less people will and there will be less mass shootings.

So, the idea that you can't prevent evil with a law doesn't mean we give up as a civilization. It means we keep on trying knowing that we'll never be perfect but we can still save lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: President Biden now pleading with lawmakers to act. Of course, he addressed the nation last night. And then just moments ago, Biden tweeting, we know common sense gun laws can't and won't prevent every tragedy but we know they work and have a positive impact. When we pass the assault weapons ban, mass shootings went down. When the law expired, mass shootings tripled.

SCIUTTO: Well, the governor of Texas, Greg Abbott, is vowing to do everything he can, he says, to prevent the next horrific mass murder from happening in his state.

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GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R-TX): What happened in Uvalde is a horrific tragedy that cannot be tolerated in the state of Texas.

When parents drop their kids off at school, they have every expectation to know that they're going to be able to pick their child up when that school day ends.

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SCIUTTO: But it's happened before. Unfortunately, it's all too familiar in Texas. Texas has recorded some of the nation's worst, deadliest mass murders over the last decade, including 22 shot dead at a Walmart in El Paso in 2019, nine students and a teacher killed at a school in Santa Fe in 2018. That's just some of them.

Joining me now, Congressman Joaquin Castro, a Democrat from Texas. Congressman, thank you for taking the time this morning.

I was in El Paso. That was unusual to some degree, in the next day, there was another shooting in Dayton, then I went to Dayton right afterwards. And there was a brief moment there where you had one or two Republican congressmen, including Mike Turner in the case of Dayton, because his daughter was nearby that shooting, who were making public statements about saying, well, now may be the time. Have you had any conversations with Republican lawmakers in the last 12 hours or so saying something similar, that, well, this may change my mind?

REP. JOAQUIN CASTRO (D-TX): I haven't yet. Hopefully, I will have those conversations at some point. But you played a clip by Greg Abbott and you mentioned the El Paso massacre in 2019. After El Paso, Greg Abbott promised to do something to make it harder for these kinds of mass murders to happen again. And instead of doing anything to make it harder, he made it easier for people to basically live in danger, for people to get guns with no permit, no training, nothing. And so he's actually made this situation more dangerous and worse in the last three years.

SCIUTTO: Already, you are hearing from people in Texas, not just in Texas but people in Texas, that the answer here is more guns, give the teachers guns, harden the schools, send volunteers to schools with guns. Would that make the schools safer?

CASTRO: Yes. I think you would just see more gun accidents and more deaths, ultimately.

[10:25:04]

And so I don't think that that's the answer.

SCIUTTO: Democrats are expected to lose the House in the fall. We don't know that for sure but let's be fair here. For two years, Democrats have controlled though with a slim margin in the Senate, the House and they have the White House, and we're not able to muscle through some sort of agreement on guns, some sort of compromise that could get those ten Republican votes you would need in the Senate. Is that a failure by Democrats?

CASTRO: Well, I guess I want to be clear, Jim. There hasn't really been an offer of compromise. I mean, it's not like Republicans have come forward to say, hey, here's our plan to stop these mass shooting incidents, and so we want to compromise with you guys. So, to be clear, 99 percent, 98 percent of the opposition in Congress has come from Senate Republicans and House Republicans.

Now, in the House of Representatives, as you know, Democrats hold the majority. And so we pass legislation like HRA, universal background checks, that's got 90 percent support among the American people. So, Democrats have listened to the American people and, you know, the American people are not debating this anymore. They know what they support and they know what legislation they want to see. It's Senate Republicans, people like Ted Cruz and others in the Senate, who refuse to listen to the American people.

When somebody has got 90 percent support, it's not just liberal Democrats who support it. And so the lion's share of the problem is that you have Republican politicians in Washington who are slaves to the NRA, who are slaves to the gun lobby, who are deathly and cowardly afraid of losing their political positions and their careers if they do anything on this issue.

SCIUTTO: There's another layer to this, and that is the court layer. The Supreme Court is about to release a decision on a New York State law. There's the possibility next term that they consider whether open carry laws apply outside of the states that have passed those laws. It's a conservative majority on that court that has a very skeptical view of gun legislation. Are you concerned that even if Congress were to act, that new gun legislation might be overturned by the court?

CASTRO: Sure. No, absolutely, that's a concern. You know, over the proceeding four years of the Biden administration, President Trump put a lot of hardcore, very right-wing judges on different courts across the country at the federal level and the same thing has happened in some states by governors. So, it's absolutely a concern.

But look, like I said, the American people know what they want to see out of their elected officials. It's incumbent upon elected officials to take action and to listen to the American people.

SCIUTTO: Before we go here, there are some questions now about the response, and I know it's early and you haven't been briefed yet, but we were told by a first responder last hour that there were some 30 minutes at least after that first responder arrived at the scene before the shooter was neutralized, that is, killed by law enforcement. Are there legitimate questions at this point about the response to the shooting in the crucial minutes early on?

CASTRO: From what I've heard so far, the law enforcement officer showed a lot of bravery in pursuing the shooter. You know, obviously 30 minutes does sound like a long time. I remember when Columbine happened in 1999. There was a question about how long it took law enforcement to go into the school then. So, everything here should be reviewed and everybody's actions should be reviewed to make sure that people follow proper procedure and did everything possible to save these kids.

SCIUTTO: Congressman Joaquin Castro, we appreciate you joining us this morning on a difficult day for America, for your state.

CASTRO: Thank you.

HILL: Mass shootings of this nature, as we know, are sadly a uniquely American problem. This latest tragedy has more people calling for lawmakers to stand up to the gun lobby. One of the loudest voices, a mother who founded a group to fight gun violence in the wake of Sandy Hook and she'll join us next.

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