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Gov. Abbott, Other Texas Officials Gave Update On School Massacre; TX Governor: Gunman Had "No Known" Mental Health Or Criminal History; Beto O'Rourke Confronts Texas Officials At News Conference; Parents Of 10-Year-Old Victim: "We Had No Idea This Was Goodbye"; 4th Grade Teacher Identified As One Of The Adult Victims; Uvalde Is Deadliest Shooting Since Sandy Hook In 2012. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired May 25, 2022 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

(CROSSTALK)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: OK. We've just been listening there to an update from Texas Governor Greg Abbott, as well as law enforcement officials and other elected leaders in Texas after 19 children and two teachers were killed at Robb Elementary School here in Uvalde.

That's where I am. I'm Alisyn Camerota.

Victor, that was very interesting. We definitely learned some new things, details about the investigation. But it was very heavy on calls for healing and calls for mental health help. Very scant on solutions.

And, in fact, the lieutenant governor, Dan Patrick, said, "There will be plenty of time to analyze what happened and try to prevent the next one."

But that's not what the stats show. The stats show that the next mass shooting will happen tomorrow.

There have been 213 mass shootings this year alone. That's more than days of the year.

And of course, Victor, you just 10 days ago were in buffalo at a different mass shooting at the grocery store, and you wondered when the next one would be, and now we know. Here we are.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Yes, and I said later this year, not next week.

And for the Control Room, I can hear myself in my ear, if you can correct that, please.

Listen, what we heard from the governor was a focus on mental health, saying that there's a need to address a mental health crisis. But also acknowledging that there's no history of mental health issues or criminal history for this shooter.

I mean, it was almost a reach talking about the lack of beds that were available for mental health patients.

We heard from the lieutenant governor where he said that the problem is that the school problem is that the school had too many doors. That he wants a single door. Maybe that is a structural problem for the building.

It is almost as if they were reaching for everything else except for the weapon he was able to purchase, the ammunition he was able to purchase, and the role that that played in this shooting.

But to hear from the governor that this is not the time to politicize this. And Beto O'Rourke served it up on a platter to give him that opportunity.

This was a political event, where you had the governor focus on New York and focused on Chicago, when he is one day out from the latest mass shooting, the second deadliest at a school in U.S. history.

CAMEROTA: Yes, you know what would help mental health, not so many school shootings. And in fact, maybe there could be a connection between a screening for mental health.

Because certainly this gunman was exhibiting certain symptoms that there have been reports that his friends and family may have seen.

And so maybe a screening from a gun shop owner to ask some questions? Are you feeling isolated? Do you want to hurt people? Maybe something like that could connect the two.

Victor, stand by because Rosa Flores and Shimon Prokupecz are joining us right now.

There's a lot to unpack in everything we heard in that press conference.

Let's start with the mention of mental health.

Rosa, let's go to you.

There was very heavy on mental health. And he was -- a governor was talking about all the things he put in place in 2019 legislatively. None of those have worked, I think we can conclude right now standing in front of this elementary school.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. What the governor also failed to mention is the constitutional carry that was passed here in the state of Texas.

I've asked him this question in the past. Does that send a message to individuals like this shooter that it's OK to carry on some of these acts or to even purchase weapons? In the case of mental health, we know that the answer should be, no, they should not be buying these weapons, And we end up with these types of atrocities.

One of the things that also really stood out to me that was mentioned in this press conference -- and we're trying to get more clarity, Alisyn -- is, when they were going through the tick tock of events as to what happened, how this shooting unfolded and the chain of events, the governor mentioned that the shooter arrived at the school.

And that there was a resource officer and there was an engagement but no exchange of gunfire. The question is, Why?

Did this officer not have a weapon? Did this officer not have a gun? Why was the shooter not stopped at that point in time before he entered a school and shot and killed 19 children and two teachers?

I think that's going to be one of the big questions here.

CAMEROTA: Let's go to Shimon Prokupecz.

Shimon, you were listening along there. What did you hear that was new? And did they give enough details about that?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: No. I think what's been happening here is we've been getting some contradictory information in some ways. We've been getting some information kind of piecemeal.

[14:34:59]

We do have a better understanding of that day, of the day of the shooting. The governor talked about the gunman shooting his grandmother in the face, that he says she called police. And then he drove to the school and that he had an accident at the school.

There's still that ambiguity. There's still questions about what happens in the moments of that accident.

So the governor indicating, as Rosa said, that there was some kind of engagement. There was an approach. But it doesn't appear that, at that point, gunshots were fired.

But then the gunman goes in, walks away and then gets into the school through a back door and then enters that classroom where he barricades himself and then, obviously, the horrific events.

The other thing that we learned from the governor is that there were Facebook messages. The governor calling them Facebook messages where he gave indications of this plan.

Facebook put out a statement saying these are not public messages, that these were private messages. And really, the only way for law enforcement to see that would be through some kind of legal recourses, like a subpoena or a search warrant.

But those Facebook private messages, according to Facebook now, is that he says he's going to shoot his grandmother. These messages start about 30 minutes before the shooting.

And then he also says that he shot his grandmother. And then the third message, the governor says, is that I'm going to shoot an elementary school, And that post is about 15 minutes before the shooting. We don't know who these messages were for. They were private messages,

so we don't have any indication yet from law enforcement or anyone else who those messages were directed to.

But they were private messages is what Facebook is saying. So there's some -- again, there's some clarity on that.

And then, obviously, the weapons. The governor and the police here are saying they're giving us a timeline of when the weapons were purchased. The first rifle was purchased on March 17th. Then on March 18th, he buys over 300 rounds, ammunition. And then on March 20th, he bought the second rifle.

They talk about him bringing this rifle into the school. They talk about him bringing a backpack.

So we've gotten some more information, some clarity on how he got into the school. We got some information on the timeline. But there are still some questions, as rosa points out -- Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Yes, of course. There are a lot of questions, including, what did that gun shop owner see or ask?

Rosa, also, we've learned about the police reaction and that one of the deputies who responded to the scene lost a daughter here.

FLORES: You've got to imagine that some of these briefings that law enforcement are getting right now are very emotional because that's exactly what we learned from this press conference, that a sheriff's deputy lost his daughter.

And so just imagine being briefed on what has happened or, god forbid, this deputy entering this school and seeing the carnage, seeing his daughter at that moment in time. It's unfathomable. But those are some of the details that we are beginning to learn.

We understand that three law enforcement officers were injured. And we also learned that it was a Customs and Border Protection officer who shot and killed the shooter inside that classroom.

And they did make the point that all of the children who died, the victims, were killed by the shooter, not by law enforcement in that exchange of fire.

Now, of course, we all know that all of that has to be thoroughly investigated. And that's why a lot of crime scene agents are collecting evidence, gathering evidence.

The other thing that I wanted to point out, it's important to note that the grandmother of the shooter is still alive. She will be a key witness.

They are looking for the grandfather. They are looking for the immediate family. Again, to learn more about the signs, what they knew when, and how it all fits in this puzzle -- Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Rosa, Shimon, thank you both very much.

Joining us now is Anthony Barksdale, CNN law enforcement analyst and former acting Baltimore police commissioner, and Greg Ehrie, former FBI special agent-in-charge.

It's great to have both of you here.

Commissioner, I just keep coming back to the governor there talked so much about the mental health crisis that this community has been having, and maybe they need to build a building that would help.

What about keeping guns out of the hands of teenage boys who are having a mental health crisis? I mean, that seems to me to be the nexus that they don't discuss.

ANTHONY BARKSDALE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: That should have been the priority that was totally avoided here, complete misdirection. It was like a "Back the Blue" press conference.

[14:40:04]

And it's not enough about these victims that had to lose their little young innocent lives that day.

And they're all on board. I don't see any signs that they're going to back away from their stance on weapons falling into the hands of the wrong people. And then to throw in New York, L.A., Chicago, these kids, these were innocent kids.

This is just amazing. And this is the leadership? These are the politicians in place that are resistant to changing things in the U.S.? We're in trouble.

CAMEROTA: As I said, it was scant on solutions. That's what this community needs. Yes, of course it needs prayers. It needs protection for their children.

And so, Greg, what -- when you listened to this, are there any solutions that seem obvious?

GREG EHRIE, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT-IN-CHARGE: Alisyn, first, you asked some of the questions that need to be answered right now. And it's very early, I have to underline, very, very early in this investigation. We're not even 24 hours into this.

But we're seeing a disturbing trend here. I don't think of the solutions. I always -- the press conference is what it is. I would have left it with, let's tell the community what has happened and what we know factually and not go into the political stance at this point.

I believe somebody said that. That's not the time for it, but they did enter into it.

The question I have right now, and we go into the gun purchase, why was an 18-year-old, even in Texas, under Texas laws, allowed to buy over multiple days, two rifles and a large amount of ammunition, without anybody asking why?

Why is that allowed to happen? I know that the laws that exist right now. That's a red flag in itself.

And then the other red flags we're seeing -- I'm very anxious to see how this progresses.

And I was impressed with the transparency of the governor and the law enforcement officials present trying to tell us the narrative they know at this point.

And I realize, I've been there, that they need to be careful and get the facts straight. But there's more to this story that needs to be told.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. We can't have the shooters friends know that the shooter is unhinged but the gunshot owner not know that. That is a disconnect.

Commissioner Barksdale, Greg Ehrie, thank you both very much.

Victor, back to you.

BLACKWELL: All right. Listen, this was politicized on more than one front. Beto O'Rourke confronted Texas Governor Greg Abbott during that press conference.

CNN's Ed Lavandera was inside.

Ed, what happened there, and what did he say after?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as the governor was going through his introductory remarks, and before he started taking questions, Beto O'Rourke, who had come into the press conference just moments before it started and sat down in the third row, then stood up and started confronting the governor.

Didn't take long, if you watched the video of all of this, for others in the crowd to start yelling back at Beto O'Rourke.

But this is some of the exchange that we saw unfold just a short while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BETO O'ROURKE, (D), TEXAS GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: (INAUDIBLE)

GOV. DAN PATRICK (R-TX): Excuse me, excuse me. Excuse me.

(CROSSTALK)

MAYOR DON MCLAUGHLIN (R-UVALDE, TX): Sit down.

PATRICK: You are out of line and an embarrassment.

MCLAUGHLIN: Hey! (CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: Sit down. Get out --

(CROSSTALK)

O'ROURKE: The time to stop the next shooting is now, and you are doing nothing. MCLAUGHLIN: No. You need to get his ass out of here. This isn't the place to talk this over.

O'ROURKE: This is totally predictable when you --

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: Call the police over.

O'ROURKE: This was totally predictable when you -- MCLAUGHLIN: Sir, you're out of line. Sir, you are out of line.

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: Sir, you are out of line. Please leave this auditorium.

(CROSSTALK)

MCLAUGHLIN: I can't believe you are a sick son of a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) who would come to a deal like this to make a political issue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: And that person you saw there behind the governor and the lieutenant governor yelling, "You're out of line," is the mayor of Uvalde.

And as he was being escorted out, Beto O'Rourke started telling the governor -- turned around once again and said, "This is on you. As long as gun laws in this state are not changed, then there will continue to be more children killed like here in Uvalde."

Beto O'Rourke was escorted out of the press conference and the press briefing area. And he spoke with reporters afterwards.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O'ROURKE: This 18-year-old, who just turned 18, bought an A.R.-15 and took it into an elementary school and shot kids in the face and killed them.

Why are we letting this happen in this country? Why is this happening in this state? Year after year, city after city.

This is on all of us if we do not do something. And I am going to do something. And I am not alone. The people of Texas are with us. The majority of the people of Texas are with us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: So you can clearly see the political intensity of what this event is triggering here in Texas.

Beto O'Rourke, of course, facing off against Governor Greg Abbott in the November election. Abbott is up for re-election this year. Beto O'Rourke running against him.

[14:45:01]

And you can imagine that this is going to be one of the key campaign issues that Beto O'Rourke will continue to carry on.

But remember, this is a state that is extremely conservative. This is a county that voted for Donald Trump in the 2020 presidential election.

And there have been many thoughts -- and, you know, Beto O'Rourke has talked about taking away A.R.-15s. He has taken a great deal of criticism on that from Texas Republicans.

But clearly, Beto O'Rourke leaning into that and feeling very comfortable making that a campaign issue going into the rest of this year.

BLACKWELL: Ed, I remember, in 2019, hearing something similar from Beto O'Rourke when he was running for president after the El Paso shooting there. And still, here we are several years later with another mass shooting there in Texas.

Ed Lavandera, thank you.

Alisyn, back to you there in Uvalde.

CAMEROTA: OK, Victor.

Obviously, we're learning more every hour about the young lives taken in this massacre, and every single one of them is gutting.

Like that of Lexi Rubio. Yesterday morning, Felix and Kimberly Rubio attended an Honor Roll celebration for their 10-year-old daughter, Lexi. And then just hours later, the Uvalde gunman took this precious child's life.

CNN's Jason Carroll spoke with these grieving parents.

Jason, what are they telling you?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I mean, Felix and Kimberly Rubio showed an incredible amount of strength, as you can imagine, to be able to speak with us, but they wanted to share their thoughts with everyone who was watching this about their daughter, Lexi.

She was 10 years old. She was in the fourth grade. She loved softball. She loved basketball. They had gone to the school. Her mother was saying, just about 30

minutes after they left the school yesterday morning, the shooting happened.

She kept saying over and over, she said, "I made a mistake. I made a mistake. I left her there."

So you can imagine the incredible amount of guilt this poor woman is dealing with.

Her father saying that -- and he's a Uvalde County sheriff's deputy. He said, at this point, he goes, "I've had enough. I've had enough with the guns. I don't want my daughter's name to be just another name."

Again, they took moments to share with us their thoughts about their daughter. We now want to share it with you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FELIX RUBIO, FATHER OF VICTIM, LEXI RUBIO & UVALDE COUNTY DEPUTY: All I can hope is that she's just not a number. Hopefully. something gets resolved. That's all we ask. Hopefully, something gets resolved.

CARROLL: I know this is very difficult, but what would you like to get resolved? What would you like to see resolved at this point?

RUBIO: Violence, guns. I'm a cop. I'm a deputy here in Uvalde County. This is enough. This is enough. No one else needs to go through this. We never needed to go through this, but we are. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: As you can see there, she's surrounded there, the parents, by her brothers and sisters, other relatives as well. They're on the front porch.

She was telling me that -- I said what did Lexi want to be when she grows up? She always wanted to be a lawyer. She works at a law office as well.

And so at this point, it's just an incredible amount of pain that they're dealing with. We've seen pain like this before. I covered Sandy Hook, speaking with parents there.

And one of the things I remember saying even then was, my god, I hope I never have to deal with this and see something like this again. And here we are again today.

But again, this family wants people to know about their daughter. And the overarching message that we got was that they just did not want her to be another name.

CAMEROTA: Of course not. I mean, this was their Honor Roll daughter. This was their Honor Roll student.

The idea that they had to go from an Honor Roll celebration to a massacre. Was that one of the responding officers, that deputy?

CARROLL: He was one of the responding officers. And so you can imagine what he was dealing with and showing up and trying to figure out if his daughter had survived.

So -- and again, it's the guilt that seeing these parents, this family deal with this overwhelming amount of guilt because she kept saying, "I just left her there." She said, "It's my fault." I said, "It's not your fault."

CAMEROTA: You're supposed to be able to leave your child at school and have them be safe. That's what you're supposed to be able to do in this country.

Jason Carroll, thank you very much for sharing that.

Of course, Lexi is not the only young life.

Jose Flores Jr., he was 10 years old. What we know about him is he loved baseball and video games, and his father said he was always full of energy and ready to play until the night. And an amazing big brother to his younger siblings.

There's 10-year-old Uziyah Garcia. His grandfather described him as the sweetest little boy that I've ever known, calling him a great kid, full of life. Loved anything with wheels and video games. He leaves behind two sisters.

[14:50:13]

Xavier Lopez, just 10 years old. His mother, Felicia Martinez, told "The Washington Post," that Xavier was funny, never serious. She said that smile I will never forget. He always cheered everyone up.

She said that she had just taken this photo of him. Also making the Honor Roll at that very same ceremony. And not realizing that would be the last time she saw her son alive. Martina said he really couldn't wait to go to middle school.

There was 10-year-old Amarie Garza. She was also killed. Her father posted this message online, quote:

"Thank you, everyone for the prayers and trying to help me found my baby. She's been found. My little love is flying high with the angels above. Please don't take a second for granted. Hug your family, tell them you love them. I love you, Amarie Jo. Watch over your brother for me."

CNN spoke with a local justice of peace who said he only expected three victims at most when he was called to the scene. He told us, quote, "When I have to sign 21 death certificates, my heart drops."

One of the first victims identified in the shooting was the 4th grade teacher, Eva Mireles. Officers said the suspect barricaded himself in her classroom. And friends describe Eva as a loving mother and wife with an adventurous spirit. With us now is a relative of Eva's, Amber Ybarra.

Thank you so much for being here. Tell us --

AMBER YBARRA, COUSIN OF SHOOTING VICTIM, EVA MIRELES: Thank you.

Tell us about Eva.

YBARRA: Yes, she was a vivacious soul. She spread laughter and joy everywhere she went. She was a loving and caring mom, relative, teacher to her students.

And it's absolutely tragic what's happening. And my intention here is to make sure to shine a light on everyone's lives here that were lost.

CAMEROTA: How long had she been a teacher?

YBARRA: I can't speak to how long she's been a teacher. I've just kind of known her as Eva, you know.

CAMEROTA: Do you know what it meant to her to teach 4th graders, these 10-year-olds we were talking about.

YBARRA: She loved what she did. She put her whole heart into her work. It's an extension of your family when you're teaching.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. I know that teachers consider those kids their family, and obviously would protect them.

And so what about your family, what about her extended family? How is everyone?

YBARRA: You know, I really cannot wait to speak to everyone, to Eva's immediate family, to my cousins.

My mom, who I'm here from San Antonio to visit, our home is right down the street from Robb, you know, me and my brother went to school here.

CAMEROTA: You went to school here?

YBARRA: Yes.

CAMEROTA: The elementary school.

YBARRA: When I was a kid. I grew up in this town, and my home is not even a full minute down the street.

CAMEROTA: In your elementary school, this happened, can you imagine that classroom where your relative was teaching?

YBARRA: I can't. You know, I'm still in the midst of reaching out to my cousins, who have kids that were here.

And how are they going to explain to their children how to process this? How are they going to move forward and feel safe and feel comfortable again? Everything is forever changed here. And I just -- it's -- I believe in prayer, and it's great to pray for people here. But what else can we do to support these families? Can we donate blood? Can we help bring food to the doors of these people to help in a bigger way?

That's the intention of, you know, me being here with you all today. How can we help?

CAMEROTA: But what else can we do? What's the answer to that? How do we protect people? I'm willing to go give blood. I'd like to do that. But that's cold comfort at this point.

YBARRA: One hundred precent. I -- again, because I'm -- this is my hometown. I have a lot of people and friends that live here and family that grew up here. All we can do is support each other.

This is a human level. These are children, you know, that have lost their lives.

What's happened is so tragic. And just to not isolate yourself. That's why I'm here physically, you know.

My mom -- you know, family is just really struggling right now. And just to support, to just listen, to say you're not alone, and the emotions that you're feeling right now, they're valid, and they're OK, and it's going to take time.

CAMEROTA: Correct me if I'm wrong, your cousin, Eva, 44 years old? Was she 44?

YBARRA: I believe so, yes.

CAMEROTA: And did she have children?

YBARRA: Yes. And again, because she's extended family, I don't feel qualified to talk on their behalf. But I'm here to shed light and lift her name up. Because she's a hero in what she did, in there to help to try to protect those children.

[14:55:11]

CAMEROTA: Sure.

I was thinking about my 4th grade classroom, which I can visualize clearly, and how small it is. When you go back, the desks and chairs and closets, and how small it is.

This school seems like that to me. Tell me what it was like to go to school here.

YBARRA: You know, when I was growing up, it was pretty amazing. I would ride my bike to school, if I could, alongside my parents. The bus would pick me up on days I didn't.

And it was joyful. We kept the doors open, you know? That's the times that I felt we lived in back then. And will people feel safe to do that now? It's horrific.

CAMEROTA: It is.

Amber, I'm so sorry for what your family is going through.

Thank you so much for being with us and shining a light on the victims.

YBARRA: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Victor, back to you.

BLACKWELL: So the Uvalde shooting marks the 213th mass shooting in America this year. Today is the 145th day. That's more mass shootings than days in 2022. It's also the 30th shooting at a school, K through 12, this year. And the deadliest school attack since 2012 when 26 people, 20 of them children, were murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary School.

In a new op-ed, Nicole Hockley, who lost her son, Dylan, in the Sandy Hook shooting, wrote, "Whenever there's a tragedy like this, I'm re- traumatized. I relive the murder of my son, his classmates and educators. The sadness and anger, they're crushing."

Nicole Hockley is with us now.

Thank you for spending a few minutes with us.

Listen, when we got the news that there had been a shooting with fatalities at an elementary school, the first thing I thought, I'm sure most people thought about, was Sandy Hook.

And when you heard it yesterday, knowing how little has been done over the last nine and a half years to prevent another school shooting, what did you feel? What did you think?

NICOLE HOCKLEY, LOST SON IN SANDY HOOK SHOOTING & CEO, SANDY HOOK PROMISE FOUNDATION: Absolute shock and horror. I went straight into shock and felt incredibly numb because I thought this can't be happening again. Yet another school shooting, but also at an elementary school.

And as more details came out, it was just -- and it is -- so hauntingly similar to what happened almost 10 years ago. So I have absolutely been reliving this for the last day.

And I can't say it's unimaginable because I've lived through it and I know exactly the experiences that are happening right now.

CAMEROTA: I know you do, Nicole, because we've spoken to you before. And I'm always impressed by your strength and that you can actually articulate what you've lived through.

What is ahead for these parents who we just talked about how they had just been at this school for an Honor Roll ceremony for their 10-year- olds who had made the Honor Roll? They were supposed to be getting out of school tomorrow for summer vacation.

I mean, how will they function?

HOCKLEY: You know, everyone's journey through this is going to be very unique and individual because everyone deals with grief and trauma in a very different way.

And I hope that they have significant numbers of supporters and community and family members around them to hold them up because they're going to need that.

This is a very dark path. And this is enduring pain. It's not natural for parents to have to bury their children. That's not the way things are supposed to be.

It's very hard for people who have not experienced this to understand.

But there's a way through it. It's just -- it can be very slow and very painful. And you really do need to rely on those who love you because you don't even realize how much pain you're in until it's too late.

BLACKWELL: There were plenty of people who expected, after the shooting at Sandy Hook, that that would be the catalyst for some legislative change.

That if you have such young children, the victims of a mass shooting, that would motivate lawmakers to do something. We haven't seen much.

Do you see that this is a moment any different than what we saw in 2012 and 2013?

HOCKLEY: I'm always an optimist, so I believe that this is a moment. Because how many more years of this can we take as a country?

And we have a generation now -- my surviving son, who was at the school the day -- he was in 3rd grade then -- he's a graduating senior now.

This is all he's known is school shootings, active shooter drills, this kind of trauma. And that is across our nation. This is what kids have been experiencing the last 10 years.

They are now coming to voting age. The Parkland kids are -- we're at a different generation curve here.

And although Congress has never been more divided than it has been, now is the time to actually say, you know, in the next few weeks, really, before the summer ends, action has to be taken.

[14:59:57]

Or else this is just more blood on people's hands who offer thought and prayers but no action behind it. And that's just shameful.

CAMEROTA: I mean, Nicole, are you still hopeful that that can happen at Congress?