Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Tx Gov: Gunman Had "No Known" Mental Health Or Criminal History; Official: School Resource Officer Confronted, But Didn't "Engage," Gunman As He Entered School; 21 Dead, 17 Hurt After Shooting In Texas Classroom; Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-MI) Discusses About Her Take To Take Action To Stop Gun Violence; Emergency Blood Drive Held To Help Injured Uvalde Victims; Rep. James White (R-TX) Talks About What Texas Legislature Supposed To Do In Response To Uvalde Shooting. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired May 25, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: I mean, Nicole, are you still hopeful that that can happen at Congress? Because it seems to me that having covered for too many of these, the local level, the state level is where really any change happens. I mean, Congress is just paralyzed.

NICOLE HOCKLEY, CO-FOUNDER, SANDY HOOK PROMISE: Congress is paralyzed and I'm very focused on state action. Things like safe storage laws, things like extreme risk protection orders, things that can ensure that firearms aren't in the hands of people who shouldn't have access to them or don't have the wherewithal or the responsibility in order to have a firearm.

However, I do think there's a lot of action that Congress can, should and I hope do take things like universal background checks, things like incentivizing and strengthening extreme risk protection orders, things like safe storage and creating liabilities for people who provide access to firearms to kids. These are things that can be done. It's just requiring some politicians to put the politics aside and put the children and their needs and lives first.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Well, Nicole Hockley, I know that this is difficult time for you, as you wrote in your op-ed, re-traumatized but I thank you for spending a few minutes with us to help us understand what's ahead for these families and what you believe should be ahead for our country. Nicole, thank you.

HOCKLEY: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: All right. It's the top of the hour in CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Victor Blackwell.

CAMEROTA: And I'm Alisyn Camerota in Uvalde, Texas here at the scene of yet another hideous school shooting. Victor, here we are, again. I'm in front of Robb Elementary School. This is the scene of the carnage where 19 kids, fourth graders, third graders, second graders were killed in their classroom.

We just heard the Texas Lieutenant Governor say in the last hour that there will be plenty of time to analyze what happened here and hopefully prevent another incident. But that's not true, Victor. As we have learned this year so painfully, the stats suggest that the next mass shooting will happen tomorrow. There have already been 213 mass shootings this year alone. That's more than there are days in 2020 - than there have been, I should say, days so far in 2020.

And Victor, of course, you and I were just talking about this, you were at the scene of this mass shooting at the Buffalo supermarket and, of course, you were wondering is this who we are as a country, how soon will we cover another one of these. And, of course, now we know the answer is nine days. We had a nine day break until we had to cover another one of these hideous shootings.

And I mean, there's no way to rank the trauma and the grief, but of course this one involves children. And so there's just the idea that we're not hearing immediate calls for state legislation and solution, but rather calls as the governor was saying that our kids need to be loved and uplifted, they also need to be protected, so that's where we are.

BLACKWELL: It's interesting, I defy anyone to find a place where people gather in public that has not been the scene of a mass shooting; a school, a grocery store, a movie theater, concert venue, you know them, we've covered them over the years. And then what now happens, because what we heard from the Governor was that there is a mental health crisis. He highlighted though that there's no connection to a mental health challenge for this shooter.

So the Lieutenant Governor suggested that it's an architectural issue with schools. There are people who were killed in Buffalo who have not yet been buried yet from the last mass shooting and here we are in the next one. The Governor of New York said that the flag there is still at half-staff from the last mass shooting. Shouldn't you just keep it there for the next one?

This is a space that our country is in, as you said nine days now is the turnaround time until we focus on the next tragedy we're focused on with mass shootings. Uvalde Police, they have removed the bodies now from the school and identified all those killed by the suspected shooter, 18-year-old who grew up in that town, authorities say officers killed the gunman on the scene. On the last hour, Texas officials revealed the suspect posted comments online less than an hour before this shooting rampage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R) TEXAS: As of this time, the only information that was known in advance was posted by the gunman on Facebook, approximately 30 minutes before reaching the school. The first post was to the point of he said, "I'm going to shoot my grandmother." The second post was, "I shot my grandmother." The third post maybe less than 15 minutes before arriving at the school was, "I'm going to shoot an elementary school."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:05:02] BLACKWELL: Facebook says those postings were private one to one messages. The victims were supposed to start their summer vacation in two days. More than a dozen others were hurt in the rampage. Many of those also children.

CAMEROTA: So Victor, now CNN does have some new reporting about graphic messages that the alleged gunman sent to someone in Germany. CNN Senior Investigative Correspondent Drew Griffin is following this lead for us. So Drew, tell us what you've learned.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: What we're discovering, Alisyn and Victor, is a troubled 18-year-old direct messaging, reaching out to teenage girls online for companionship, asking for dates. And in a chilling exchange with this 15-year-old girl in Germany just yesterday morning telling her in real time he just shot his grandmother was about to shoot up in elementary school.

This is the screenshot of that actual conversation, complete with selfies of the suspect. We now know the suspect's grandmother was on the phone with AT&T dealing with her grandson's phone bill. He writes, "I'm going to do something to her right now. She's on with AT&T about my phone. It's so annoying."

Six minutes later is when he types this, "I just shot my grandma in the head. I'm going to go shoot up in elementary school right now."

That last message, Alisyn, sent at 6:21 pm German time, which would have been 11:21 am Uvalde, Texas. At 11:32, we know 11 minutes later, police received that first call of a shooting at Robb Elementary School. The teenage girl who spoke to CNN with her mother's consent, shared the conversation with the shooter in which the suspect said he was actually going to fly out and meet her in June. The girl tells us she is just 15 and her only connection with this guy was following him via social media and she had met him through a chat room, Victor?

BLACKWELL: All right. Drew Griffin with the latest reporting there. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: It's also chilling and obviously so sickening. Rosa Flores is here with me. She's been listening in as last hour, these officials gave us more details on the timeline of events yesterday, so what did they - they broke some news, tell us what they said.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They did. They gave us a better sense of what was happening, when, although we still have a lot of questions, Alisyn, about what happened and what didn't happen before this shooter entered the school.

First of all, we - let's start from the beginning because we have two crime scenes here. The first crime scene is - it starts at about noon yesterday when the shooter shoots his grandmother as you just reported. Shortly thereafter, he drives towards this school, and at the end of this road that you see behind us, there's a ditch. He crashes into that ditch, exited - exits the vehicle with one rifle.

Now, he purchased two rifles in March and more than 300 rounds of ammunition. He gets out of the vehicle with one rifle and walks towards the school. Now, here is the big question because according to Gov. Abbott this shooter 'engaged' with a resource officer, but no gunfire was exchanged. The big question there is why. I've been calling Texas DPS trying to get answers on that. I have not gotten a call back yet, but I plan to keep pushing because that is the key question.

CAMEROTA: I mean, do we know if the school officer was armed? We don't even know that yet, right?

FLORES: We don't know that. Did they - was the officer armed? Did the officer freeze? Did the officer tried to tackle him? What happened? We don't know. That is a key question. Because after that, the shooter entered the school and according to the Governor and through the west side made entry to one classroom then hit a hall, then to another classroom.

And so at that point, then is when the Governor explains that there was some exchange and here's what the Governor says. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVEN MCCRAW, TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY DIRECTOR: But bottom line is that law enforcement was there, they did engage immediately. They did contain him in the classroom and they put a tactical stack together, in a very orderly way, and of course breached and assaulted the individual.

I mean, it was just - yeah, confronted him and wanted to find out because he was - he see the report, heard the accident and was out, like trying to check on that particular crash when he saw it. So he followed him right in immediately, okay, and rounds were exchanged.

And, of course, then also we had two Uvalde police officers, witnessed described, that went in and was involved in also the shooting with the subject and were wounded. And, of course, they were also responsible for containing in that area.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: And that obviously was not the governor of Texas that was the head of Texas DPS. But he was speaking about how there was an exchange there and according to authorities, it was a Customs and Border Protection officer who shot and killed this shooter inside the classroom, but so many questions remain, of course, Alisyn.

[15:10:01]

CAMEROTA: Yes. I mean there was certainly no dearth of law enforcement that showed up here, they responded immediately. They ran toward the danger. Many of them were injured but it didn't matter because the gunman was already inside a classroom with fourth graders and so they could - and just the amount of law enforcement that showed up couldn't stop this.

FLORES: That I think is the key point and a lot of the intense moments, I think, we're still going to learn about that because law enforcement do say that these police officers were breaking windows, banging on Windows, trying to get into save these children and we know now that 19 are dead.

CAMEROTA: Rosa Flores, thank you very much. Obviously, we will continue to bring new details as they happen every hour. But it is so devastating, every story that we learn about these young victims. Every single one of them is so gutting. Here are a few that we want to share with you, Jose Flores.

I think we have some pictures. He was just 10 years old. He loved baseball and video games. His father said that he was always full of energy and ready to play until the night. He was an amazing big brother to his younger siblings.

Then there's a 10-year-old Uziyah Garcia. His grandfather describes him as the sweetest little boy that I've ever known, calling him a great kid full of life, loved anything with wheels and video games. I mean, look at this face.

Then there's Javier Lopez. He was just 10 years old also. His mother Felicia Martinez told The Washington Post that Javier was funny, was never serious. Look at his beautiful angelic face. She said, "That smile I will never forget. It would always cheer anyone up." She said she had just taken this photo of him because he had just made the school honor roll. And it was a proud moment. And she did not realize it would be the last time that she saw her son alive.

Ten-year-old Amerie Jo Garza was also killed. Her father posted this message online. "Thank you everyone for the prayers and help trying to find my baby. She's been found. My little love is flying high with the angels above. Please don't take a second for granted. Hug your family. Tell them you love them. I love you Amerie Jo. Watch over your baby brother for me."

Let's turn now to CNN's Lucy Kafanov. She's outside the San Antonio Hospital where some of those hurt in this mass shooting were being treated. Lucy, how many are there and how are they doing?

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, where we are right now at the University Hospital in San Antonio, four patients are being treated as we speak, three little girls injured and one adult woman. We know that two of the young girls, a nine-year-old and a 10-year-old they are currently listed as in good condition. But a 66-year-old woman and another 10-year-old girl are fighting for their lives. They were airlifted here in critical condition. Yesterday that condition has improved slightly to serious.

We know that all of the little ones have their relatives with them at the hospital right here. The flags at the hospital flying at half- staff. We actually learned that the doctors and the nurses at this facility also treated victims from the 2017 Sutherland Springs mass shooting. It is Groundhog Day, a tragic one all over again for them.

The hospital releasing a statement. I want to read you a little bit of it. They say that we should also keep in our thoughts the law enforcement, the first responders and medical teams who responded with bravery, professionalism, compassion and great skill to save lives. This includes many people at University Hospital. In addition to the teams in the Trauma Resuscitation Unit, the OR and on the pediatric and in the adult trauma inpatient units, so many of our team members have been working tirelessly to support these patients and their families."

And talking about those first responders and the law enforcement, we heard from the Gov. Greg Abbott here in Texas at the press conference earlier today about the toll suffered by some of the law enforcement. A deputy sheriff is currently mourning the death of his little girl, take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABBOTT: In addition to the students and the faculty, there were three officers who were injured who all remain in good condition. One deputy sheriff lost a daughter in that school.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAFANOV: It just goes to show how interconnected this community is and CNN did speak to the relatives of that family. They never thought that this would be the last time they saw their little girl, back to you.

BLACKWELL: All right. Lucy Kafanov for us there in San Antonio, thank you.

So once again, we are hearing impassioned pleas for gun reform right now, including from Steve Kerr, Head Coach of the Golden State Warriors. They played in Dallas last night. Kerr, whose father was a victim of gun violence, has been outspoken.

[15:15:03]

You've probably heard him before about the need for more common sense gun laws.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE KERR, HEAD COACH, GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS: In the last 10 days, we've had elderly black people killed in a supermarket in Buffalo. We've had Asian churchgoers killed in Southern California and now we have children murdered at school. When are we going to do something? I'm tired. I'm so tired of getting up here and offering condolences to the devastated families that are out there. I'm so tired of the - excuse my - I'm sorry. I'm tired of the moments of silence. Enough.

I'm fed up. I've had enough. We're going to play the game tonight. But I want every person here, every person listening to this to think about your own child or grandchild or mother or father or sister brother, how would you feel if this happened to you today? We can't get numb to this.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLACKWELL: National Youth Poet Laureate Amanda Gorman tweeted this, "It takes a monster to kill children. But to watch monsters killed children again and again and do nothing isn't just insanity, it's inhumanity."

The police are also coming from some in Washington, Sen. Chris Murphy begged his Republican colleagues to take some action. Murphy represents Newtown, Connecticut where the Sandy Hook massacre happened almost 10 years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): Our kids are living in fear every single time they set foot in the classroom because they think they're going to be next. What are we doing? Why do you spend all this time running for the United States Senate? Why do you go through all the hassle of getting this job, of putting yourself in a position of authority if your answer is that as the slaughter increases as our kids run for their lives, we do nothing?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: With me now is Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell of Michigan. Congresswoman, thanks for being with me. You delivered similar remarks, this was 2016, during that sit in on the House floor after pulse. And there are these moments of energy and action after a mass shooting but they eventually lead nowhere. It's a bit of inertia from Capitol Hill. Is that what we're watching, again, or is this somehow even seems naive to ask different?

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): Well, I'm asking myself the same question. What I know happens every time there's a shooting is everybody goes to their corners and nothing happens. I won't - I mean, I am obviously praying for these families, but prayers don't cut it, moments of silence don't cut it anymore and we have to find a way.

We can't do this as liberals or conservatives or Democrats or Republicans. Our communities across this country are being impacted and while the horror of it strikes us when you've seen 19 children and two teachers gunned down, this is happening in homes every day. It - look at the number of shootings in Chicago every day.

I talked about knowing the fear of living in a home where my father could snap like this and hiding in the closet and being afraid that I would be killed at any moment. We have to do something, but we got to find a way to come out of our corners into something as simple as background checks to do red flag warnings, to keep guns out of the hands of those that shouldn't have them.

And I live this when the gun bill was passed in the '90s, my husband was one of the original board members of the NRA and it was one of the worst and longest nights of his life. But he came out and supported the president on that bill. His son didn't speak to him for three months. He had to have police protection, but he did what was right. And at some point, we've got to come together and do what is right. CAMEROTA: Speaking of polarization and coming out of corners, this is coming from Manu Raju. He says that at lunch today, Republican senators discussed gun policies. They talked about red flag laws, background checks, mental health according someone who was there. There's no consensus on a path forward. But Mitch McConnell led the conversation. They were said to be robust.

Here's the question for you. Some senators have told the White House that they want some space and time to see if they could reach some bipartisan consensus on guns and they asked the White House not to rally for one specific proposal at the moment to give them the space to do that. Do you believe that that's possible? And should the White House, essentially here, back off and give Republicans a moment to figure out in which direction they want to go?

DINGELL: So first of all, we have to let the family grieve - Buffalo and Texas grieve. I think we need to be having backdoor conversations. I certainly was on the phone all last night and all today, I want to figure out what Manu just talked about was many of the subjects that I have been discussing with my colleagues.

[15:20:08]

What space? We don't - I mean, if we let this - we all go to our corners and it just blows up again, nothing happens. So I think a few days, a little time, but we can't stop working to find what that is. But let's try to work together to find what it is and not let it blow up just like it does every time that this happens. We've got to do something and when is enough, enough.

BLACKWELL: Yes. The sad reality, Congresswoman, is that when you say a few days, we're just a few days out from the last one.

DINGELL: Yes.

BLACKWELL: God help us. Let's hope we're not a few days out from the next. Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, thank you. Alisyn?

DINGELL: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Yes. We hear her passion and we pray that lawmakers can turn it into action. We have a lot more here from Uvalde, Texas at the site of this deadly mass shooting at an elementary school, the one that you see behind me. So many people feel powerless, how this keeps happening? So what we can do in some small way to help?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:25:32]

CAMEROTA: I'm Alisyn Camerota here in Uvalde, Texas where there is a critical need for blood donations. Hospitals are desperately in need of blood to help treat all of those injured, including several children. Francine Pina is the spokesperson for the South Texas Blood & Tissue Center, which just finished holding an emergency blood drive. Francine, thanks so much for coming over here. FRANCINE PINA, SPOKESWOMAN, SOUTH TEXAS BLOOD & TISSUE CENTER: Glad to be here.

CAMEROTA: How was the turnout? Did volunteers show up?

PINA: So the blood drive actually has not ended yet. We were scheduled to stop at two o'clock today, but the response has been so overwhelming that we're likely going to go another four hours. We've been mentioning to donors that are there that it's an hour and a half to two hour wait, but they want to stay and do their part to right now people feel helpless, and they just want to do something to help their community and this is one way that they can do that.

CAMEROTA: So hundreds of people have shown up to wait for two hours in the hot sun.

PINA: Yes. Yes. So yesterday, we processed about 600 people. We service 38 counties in South Texas. So in total, we saw about 600 people. We're expected to get at least another 600, 700 in total today.

CAMEROTA: Do you know exactly what this flood is being used for?

PINA: So yesterday, when we found out about the tragedy here in Uvalde, we were able to send proactively units on this - to support the need needed here. Luckily, thanks to our donors, we had that blood on the shelf to be able to do so. But as you've heard, we're in a national shortage of blood crisis right now. So we need to make sure that people all over our nation are looking for their local blood centers to see where they can donate, because if it wasn't for those donors beforehand that had already donated, we wouldn't have had the blood on the shelves. So this will help replenish what was exhausted yesterday.

CAMEROTA: Such a great point. Is there a particular type of blood that's more valuable than others?

PINA: Sure. Right now, what's most need is type O blood. We need all types of blood, but type O is the needed - most needed blood.

CAMEROTA: It's the universal donor.

PINA: It is.

CAMEROTA: And for people who are watching who desperately want to help, what can they do right now? How can they go and donate?

PINA: Sure. They can search on the internet for their local blood center. Make an appointment and schedule with them locally.

CAMEROTA: Francine Pina, thank you very much. Thanks for all the work that you're doing.

PINA: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: We really appreciate your time. Victor? BLACKWELL: According to the gun violence archive, the Uvalde shooting is the 245th mass shooting in the State of Texas since 2014. Joining me now Republican Texas State Representative James White. Sir, thank you for your time here. Let me start here, we know what's happening in Washington and more importantly what is not happening in Washington. Hopefully your shot comes back here - have we lost him? All right. We've got him back. We had a problem with his shot. What, if anything, should the Texas Legislature do in response to what happened in Uvalde yesterday?

REP. JAMES WHITE (R-TX): Hey, thank you so much for that question. And on behalf of the citizens in East Texas that I represent, our condolences and compassion goes out to our fellow Texans in Uvalde. And what I think we should do is we should allow the law enforcement and investigators to do their work. As they're doing their work, we should look at the work product and what we can do going forward.

Victor, this is what we have discovered so far, this demented individual that did this horrific incident at this Uvalde elementary school, when he purchased the first weapon, he passed the background check. When he purchased a second weapon, he not only passed that background check, but because he did two background checks or excuse me two purchases within 30 days, the ATF did another background check, okay, and he cleared all three of those hurdles.

He shot his grandmother. She is fighting for her life trying to recover in the hospital. He took out Texas law enforcement and the citizens of Texas on a high speed chase that ended at a school and he went into that school and did that horrific incident.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

WHITE: So we're going to look at this--

CAMEROTA: But Mr. White, I'm sorry to interrupt, we know those details. What we want to know is what your solution is. And the reason I ask is because we've all seen how quickly and creatively Texas, your local legislature can act when it wants to, say, protect the unborn embryo.

[15:30:09]