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Officials Give Update on Texas Elementary School Massacre; Interview with Ross McGlothlin, Former Robb Elementary School Principal. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired May 26, 2022 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

VICTOR ESCALON, SOUTH TEXAS REGIONAL DIRECTOR, TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY: But before I do that, I was able to make it here during the event on May 24th, same with a lot of other law enforcement officers that came to this event, this critical incident.

I got to see the victims. I got to see the officers. I got to see the community members. It is -- it is so hard. It is very -- it's hard to take. It's traumatic.

We're all hurting inside. We're hurting inside for the community members in Uvalde, Texas. We're hurting inside with our local partners that have to live here and work here every day.

The victims, the family members, we feel for them. I'm a father. I can go home tonight, hug my kids. That hurts. The members behind me are family members, their kids. It's tough. It's tough. It's hard.

But that gives us the motivation to move on, to do good work for Uvalde, Texas, for the victims. We speak for the victims, and we take that dearly.

Before I get started, the Texas Rangers are leading this investigation. But we can't do it alone. We cannot do it alone. We have ATF, FBI, CBP, Border Patrol, Uvalde County district attorney's office. The list goes on and on and on.

But the agencies I told you, are the main ones that are assisting with this investigation. We want to know what happened, recreate the scene. That takes days. That takes hours. That takes time.

A lot of information. Then we have to do a lot of interviews. So we just started. We started on Tuesday. Today's Thursday. We're still grabbing a lot of information.

We also -- what's important to us is why? Why did he do this? Why did he do this? Who is this man, the suspect? We're going to find out.

With all the different agencies that are involved, we're working every angle that's available. We won't stop until we get all the answers that we possibly can.

So, again, I want to thank these men and women that are behind us, supporting the DPS and the Rangers.

So, there's a lot of information. I'm going to give you -- there's some new information as of Tuesday that I wanted to clear up. That we want to clear up that's been pushed out.

We'll continue to have updates in the coming days once the information is obtained and we're able to confirm and corroborate that. We want to make sure we're pushing out the right information.

Early on, when we came in, we were receiving a lot of information from a lot of different locations. That's a baseline. You start there.

We made some reports. But since then, we started doing interviews. We started working the crime scene, so we're corroborating. I want to share some of that. It's a small piece of information right now, but it will grow within days.

So, please, thank you for being here and being patient with us. It means a lot.

On Tuesday, May 24th, at 11:28, suspect just west of here wrecked his vehicle, pickup truck that he took from his grandmother. He had just shot his grandmother in the face. She's alive. She's stable at this point.

At 11:28, he's sitting there at the ditch. He jumps out the passenger side of the truck. According to witnesses, he's got a longarm rifle and a bag. Later, we find out it's ammunition.

He walks around, he sees two witnesses at the funeral home across the street from where he wrecked. He engages and fires towards them.

He continues walking. He continues walking towards the school. He climbs a fence. Now he's in the parking lot, shooting at the school multiple times.

At 11:40, he walks into the west side of Robb Elementary. According to reports, video we have obtained from outside, inside -- and again, we're still combing through that, so bear with us.

[14:35:11]

Multiple rounds, numerous rounds are discharged in the school. We're trying to do -- get a number. We're in the process of analyzing that video.

Four minutes later, local police departments, Uvalde Police Department, the Independent School District Police Department, are inside making entry. They hear gunfire. They take rounds. They move back, get cover. And during that time, they approach where the suspect is at.

According to the information I have, he went in at 11:40. He walked -- and I'm going to approximate -- 20 feet, 30 feet. He makes a right. He walks into the hallway. He makes a right.

He walks another 20 feet. Turns left into a school room, into a classroom that has doors open in the middle.

Officers are there, the initial officers, they receive gunfire. They don't make entry initially because of the gunfire they're receiving. But we have officers calling for additional resources.

Everybody that's in the area, tactical teams, we need equipment, we need specialty equipment, we need body armor, we need precision riflemen, negotiators.

So during this time that they're making those calls to bring in help to solve this problem and stop it immediately, they're also evacuating personnel -- not personnel -- students, teachers.

There's a lot going on. A lot -- complex situation. They're measuring. They're measuring.

Approximately an hour later, U.S. Border Patrol tactical teams arrive. They make entry. Shoot and kill the suspect.

But you also had a county deputy and Uvalde Police Department that made entry and killed the suspect. Immediately, immediately, numerous officers.

Now it turns into a rescue operation. How do we save these children? How do we save these children? Some made it out. We don't have a hard number yet. But that was a goal. And then continuing making the area safe continued. There's a lot of moving parts afterwards.

But during, they were taking gunfire, negotiations, and developing a team to make entry to stop him.

I'll take a few questions. And again, look, I summary -- one more thing I forgot to mention, that I want to clear up, that came out early on.

It was reported that a school district police officer confronted the suspect that was making entry. Not accurate. He walked in unobstructed initially.

So, from the grandmother's house to the bar ditch to the school, into the school, he was not confronted by anybody, to clear the record on that. Four minutes later, law enforcement are coming in to solve this problem.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So, Director, how is he able --

ESCALON: Stand by.

So, just want to clear that up. That's very important. And again, this will happen as we move forward.

So, thank you.

I'll take a few questions.

(CROSSTALK) UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Director, how was he able to get in if it was a school that's supposed to be locked during the school day?

ESCALON: So, right now, during the investigation, it appears it was unlocked. So, we're going to look at that and try to corroborate that as best we can.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you know why?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How many gunshots --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you know why it was unlocked?

ESCALON: Please one at a time. And we'll address as many questions as we can.

(CROSSTALK)

ESCALON: Let me finish this question.

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: One at a time. Announce your name and announce your network, OK? Let's be respectful, please.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: My name is Josh -- (INAUDIBLE)

Do you know why it was unlocked?

ESCALON: So, Josh, thank you for the question.

[14:40:00]

Right now, it appears it was unlocked. Like I said, goes back to the investigation. It takes time. We will find out as much as we can why it was unlocked or maybe it was locked. But right now, it appears it was unlocked.

So, thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

ESCALON: Yes, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Director, would you say at one point, when he was inside there, among the things you were attempting negotiation. Was he responding to negotiation? And in that period of time, was there continued gunfire?

ESCALON: So, during that time, right now, according to the information we have, the majority of the gunfire was in the beginning. In the beginning. I say numerous. More than 25. I mean, it was a lot of gunfire in the beginning.

During the negotiations, there wasn't much gunfire other than trying to keep the officers at bay. But that could change, depending -- once we Analyze the video. But right now, according to the information, we did he did not respond.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) -- with NBC News.

My question is this. Was there a school officer on campus? And was that school officer armed? Because that's what we've been told.

ESCALON: So, at this time, no. No. There was not an officer readily available, armed. No.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Was there an officer --

(CROSSTALK)

ESCALON: No. Nothing. Nothing. I can't answer that yet. I'll circle back with you.

Again, as we do that investigation, we have all these questions we want to answer, but I'll get back with you, sir.

Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: There's a 12-minute gap -- there's a 12-minute gap from when he crashes his truck to when he enters the school, 12 minutes. What happened in that 12 minutes?

ESCALON: So, you got to understand, 11:30 is the information we have at this point that we can confirm. At 11:30 a.m., we got a crash and a man with a gun. And then you have responding officers.

That's what it is. If it's 12 minutes, from 11:30 to 11:40 -- that's the information we have right now.

Look at the end of the day, our job is to report the facts and have those answers. We're not there yet.

(CROSSTALK)

ESCALON: Over here. Over here.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sir, when was the first 911 call?

ESCALON: Say it again?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: When was the first 911 call? How long --

ESCALON: So, right now, the first 911 call was at 11:30. I will get the time what it took to respond. We'll have that answer.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Director? Director?

(CROSSTALK)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Would a tactical team have gone in before an hour lapsed?

ESCALON: Could. There's a lot of possibilities. There's a lot of possibilities.

Until -- until -- until we receive an interview -- because there was numerous officers at that classroom. Numerous. Once we interview all those officers, what they were thinking, what they did, why they did it, the video, the residual interviews, we'll have a better idea.

Could anybody have got there sooner? You got to understand, small town. You had people from Eagle Pass, from Del Rio, Laredo, San Antonio, responding to a small community.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Information you have so far, sir, should the officers have gone in sooner? Should they have waited for those tactical team?

ESCALON: That's a tough question. That's a tough question. Again, it goes back, our job is to report the facts. Report the facts and later we can answer those questions.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Based on what you know so far, should those officers --

ESCALON: I don't have enough information to answer that question just yet.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Director? Director?

ESCALON: One more question, please.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is it accurate that eyewitnesses and potentially parents and students were urging the police to go in while you were waiting for a tactical SWAT team, even that some parents were asking to borrow police armor so they could make a counterassault on the school?

ESCALON: I have heard that information. But we have not verified that yet.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What part haven't you verified?

ESCALON: We have not verified is that a true statement or not, or is it just rumor out there?

You got to understand. We're getting a lot of information. We're trying to track down and see what is true. We want to vet it. That's all I have for questions. Thank you so much.

(CROSSTALK)

ESCALON: Thank you so much.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did you follow best practices?

ESCALON: Hold on, hold on.

(CROSSTALK)

ESCALON: So, look, we appreciate the questions.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What were the officers doing between 11:44 and 12:45?

ESCALON: I've got -- (INAUDIBLE)

Yes, sir?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: You guys said he was barricaded. Can you explain to us how he was barricaded and why you guys cannot breach that door?

ESCALON: So, I have taken all your questions into consideration. We will be doing updates. We will be doing updates to answer those questions.

PROKUPECZ: You should be able to answer that question now, sir.

ESCALON: What is your name?

PROKUPECZ: Shimon Prokupecz from CNN.

ESCALON: Shimon. I hear you.

PROKUPECZ: Because we've been given a lot of bad information, so why don't you clear all of this up now and explain to us how it is that your officers who were in there for an hour, yes, rescuing people, but yet no one was able to get inside that room.

[14:45:09]

ESCALON: Shimon, we will circle back with you. We want to answer all of your questions. We want to give you the why. That's our job. Give us time. I'm taking your questions. I'm taking them back to talk to the team.

(CROSSTALK)

PROKUPECZ: Can you tell us how the door was barricaded?

ESCALON: Look, thank you for being here. Have --

(CROSSTALK)

ESCALON: We'll talk soon.

(CROSSTALK)

ESCALON: We'll talk soon.

(CROSSTALK)

ESCALON: Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: OK, Victor, you've heard there's a lot more questions than they were able to answer right now or willing to answer right now. You can hear reporters still yelling questions.

And you know, I was able to ask him, what about that hour-long lapse between the time that there was shooting heard in that classroom and the time that the tactical team showed up and got into the building. And basically, he just said they're still looking at it.

And could they have done something different? He said, basically, that's what they're going to explore. But that's sort of the top question here right now on the ground.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: This is a department, and as we've discussed at the top of the show, sensitive about the variables that are part of this investigation.

But this department seems to be struggling to get a basic chronology of what happened.

We heard there from Victor Escalon, the south Texas regional director of DPS. He said that he wanted to clear up what was said about a school resource officer engaging this shooter outside of the building.

The person who told us was the director of DPS. Here's a direct quote. "There was a brave Consolidated Independent School District resource officer that approached him, engaged him, and at that time, gunfire was not exchanged."

That was 24 hours ago that he was clear about there being an officer engaging. And now, today, they're saying there was no officer.

And the questions about the barricade that Shimon asked, by now, we should know if that was simply a locked door, if there were desks on the other side of that door, and what the situation was inside the building.

He said maybe the door was locked, maybe the door was unlocked. At this point, two days in, why don't we have some of those very basic questions answered?

CAMEROTA: Let's bring in crime and justice correspondent, Shimon Prokupecz, who has some of those very same questions.

So, Shimon, obviously, they're dealing with a lot. He did share some new information. We didn't know about the negotiations.

PROKUPECZ: I don't even know what that means, right? There was communications --

CAMEROTA: It sounds like the police were negotiating with the gunman. PROKUPECZ: Well, yes, but he wouldn't really specify what that is.

But here's the thing. The gunfire, he says, stops at some point. And we have no explanation, why didn't they try to breach that door? You would assume that at that point, there's no threat -- I mean, you would assume there's no gunfire.

Every effort should have been made to get inside. And we still don't have an accounting for what efforts were made. Because we're now learning that they were in there for about an hour.

Yes, rescuing other students, but the students that they were rescuing were not inside that classroom. There were students and teachers that were in the other classrooms. They were taking them out. So, that's the thing.

You know, and it's frustrating because we have -- you know, we were given pieces of information yesterday, the day before, and now all that, again, is changing. John Berman was given information this morning that now doesn't seem to be accurate.

So, bad information from them has been coming. And perhaps maybe it's the fog of this investigation, you know. So perhaps. But they should be able to answer some really important questions.

And the fact that there was no armed officer here, they couldn't really explain why. It's clear that that officer perhaps should have been here. He wasn't here. We're learning that there were shots actually fired --

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Fired at the funeral director employees.

PROKUPECZ: Another reporter asked about that 12-minute gap. From 11:28 to 11:40, what is going on?

CAMEROTA: Yes. What is going on?

PROKUPECZ: There's an unlocked door. He goes inside. They can't explain why the door's unlocked. That's understandable.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

PROKUPECZ: But critical in all of this, again, is we are not getting answers as to that one hour. And it's, you know, understandably, I think, frustrating for everyone because some of the information has been changing --

CAMEROTA: Sure.

PROKUPECZ: -- you know, from minute to minute with some of these -- some of the press conferences that they have held.

CAMEROTA: Stand by, Shimon, if you would.

Because we want to bring in CNN national security analyst, Juliette Kayyem, and former Boston police commissioner, Ed Davis.

So, Juliette, I mean, did you get any answers to what you were hoping to hear?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: No. I mean, let's just be clear here. This is a nightmare for the families, let alone for reporters who are anxious to get the story right.

Nothing about that press conference made me feel better, including talking about himself. I mean, there are 19 dead children with families. that he is working hard, honestly, is like the least of our concern right now.

[14:50:08]

Here's the problem they have that they cannot explain. The entrance at 11:40. You have multiple police departments at 11:44. That guy should have been dead within a minute or two.

There should have been no evacuations, no negotiations, nothing. Nothing. Everyone knows this. And it didn't happen.

Why he kept talking about -- the briefer kept talking about negotiations, I'm like, what are we talking about? It's a man with a rifle, walks into an elementary school. We're done talking. You would have every justification.

So you got four minutes -- and this is where my second question is, when were these children killed? And I hate -- I can be graphic. You know, I don't mean it that way.

Just, is it in that four-minute period when he makes the right and the right and he gets in the classroom and this is a gun that can kill lots of people very quickly? Is it over this negotiation period?

I don't think we have a clear sense when the majority of kids were killed. And if it's in that four-minute period, maybe you can explain it. If it's any time after, you have a law enforcement presence there, you cannot explain it.

And it's a nightmare. It's just a nightmare. And I think they're trying to -- you know, I think they're realizing the extent to which there wasn't an adequate response.

So some people are saying something to Shimon, others are saying things to you, Alisyn. They got to get the story right. Not to cover themselves. Because they owe it to the family members. Because everyone is going to concoct some theory of what happened.

If mistakes were made, as they very likely were, they will come out. They've got to get ahead of this.

But that's my -- you know, I am looking at the numbers here. I can't provide our viewers with any more clarity than I had 20 minutes ago.

BLACKWELL: Commissioner, your top take away from what we just watched? ED DAVIS, FORMER BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: There are some important

clues that I heard. It was not handled very well as far as getting the information out there.

You know, we have a system in the United States called the National Incident Management System.

And under is that system, every police department in the country is trained to do certain things, to respond, as we said before, and immediately engage the shooter. There's questions about that.

One of the post-important things I have heard in this was that the gunfire, most of the fun fire happened immediately, happened as the suspect was entering into the classroom.

If that's true -- and I have to be very specific about this -- but you can kill a lot of people in a very short period of time with these military weapons.

So if no one stopped the suspect from going in, and he got in there and killed a bunch of people immediately and the gunfire stopped, that may be a reason to pause.

I'm not trying to defend what happened here. I would have liked to have seen someone go right in and take him out.

But if there's no gunfire continuing, then sacrificing people who are responding to the scene makes sense. Not having more victims.

If you got the suspect isolated in an area and he has no ability to shoot other people, that's another reason why you would pause. We don't know what happened here.

But the lack of direction and the lack of information that's coming out of here is a failure under the National Incident Management System to put in a public relations process so that valid information is getting out.

We heard that there was someone that encountered the suspect immediately. Now they're saying that didn't happen. That's called the fog of war. You see that everywhere. But it's a result of them not getting the public information component of this thing under control.

And to come out now, two days later, the idea of getting out in front of this is past-post now. We're not going to get clarity.

So there's some really serious issues here.

And the last thing I want to say is, the assistant director of deputy director did say one thing that I think is important. This is a tiny, tiny community, a small town.

So now the federal government has to look at, how much training did this police department have? Was the command structure that was there understanding of what the National Incident Management System was all about and the command and control of this? Those are all questions that aren't answered yet.

CAMEROTA: Juliette, I see you nodding.

But we should say, yes, it is a very tiny town police department or sheriff's department but there was a huge law enforcement response. Customs and Border Control immediately showed up. There was a huge response.

But what are your thoughts?

[14:55:00]

KAYYEM: Yes, I think that's right. I mean, the federal assets, the police officers are all trained under the Incident and Command System and rapid deployment, immediate rapid deployment.

So once you are talking about CBP and others, you really are going to fall into, you know, we are getting tactical here, an Incident Command System. So they would know what to do.

I think the commissioner raised this important point is that, once you are having a federal presence, everyone would fall into formation.

So I -- like Ed, I don't know if 11:40 to 11:44 a.m. -- because we know what this weaponry can do -- is our sort or major loss of life moment. Right? And if that is the case, then we need to know that.

We need to know that he walked in unimpeded, after about a 15-minute -- it looks like a 15-minute walk after the car accident, walks unimpeded into a school and kills within four minutes.

So, that's a very short time frame, hard to stop. And then you try to disable him.

If the killings are happening after 11:44, when you have a presence, is it because of the small police department and they weren't trained?

Was there some dysfunction in the Incident Command System or, you know, the immediate response capabilities? Was he really impossible, impossible to get to?

Those are the questions that, as someone that looked after the fact, right, those are the ones that I would at.

Finally, just very quickly, as Ed said, they've lost this story. They've lost it. And that's the passion I have. Because I am thinking about the parents. They just want to know. At this stage, they're not getting their kids back.

And the story, someone needs to take charge of the story, not to create fiction, but to actually create a timeline and enable some people look bad or not heroic. You get that, that happens.

But that's where they need to take control of this narrative. That's a part of the training as well. BLACKWELL: All right.

I want to bring in Ross McGlothlin, the former principal of Robb Elementary school.

Thank you for being with me.

You can, hopefully, clear up some confusion about the building, about the school resource officer.

Let's start with how this shooter, we are told, entered the building. This back door, according to law enforcement officials, is that door typically locked?

ROSS MCGLOTHLIN, FORMER PRINCIPAL, ROBB ELEMENTARY SCHOOL: It is typically locked on. I would imagine most elementary and secondary campuses across the country, because it would not be a door that the students would use to, for example, go to the library or the cafeteria or the main office.

It's an exterior door that you don't need to go to unless you are leaving to go home on a school bus.

BLACKWELL: OK. So let me ask you now about the school resource officer. Is this school resource officer there every day throughout the entire school day? Is that person supposed to be in the building for the full day?

Tell us about that officer's rule.

MCGLOTHLIN: I'm afraid I can't speculate on that, because I am no longer an employee of the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District.

BLACKWELL: OK. Let me ask you this. When you were the principal, was there school resource officer?

MCGLOTHLIN: There were school resource officers in the school district, yes, there were. But there was not a singular officer assigned to each school with the exception, perhaps, of the high school.

BLACKWELL: OK. So no one assigned to Robb Elementary specifically.

Were those school resource officers and cruisers outside when they were there, were they inside the school building when you were principal?

MCGLOTHLIN: Absolutely.

BLACKWELL: Which one?

MCGLOTHLIN: Would you ask the question again? If you are asking, did the school resources officers arrive on campus in police vehicles, yes. BLACKWELL: No, my question is -- and I apologize for not being clear.

When you were principal and there were school resource officers, were they inside the building when they were on campus?

MCGLOTHLIN: They were, absolutely. They would come inside, engage in conversations with students, just be present and supportive.

[14:59:50]

BLACKWELL: If there's an emergency, a threat in the building, is there a system in place to alert teachers, to alert the classrooms to lock down, close their doors?

MCGLOTHLIN: Absolutely. Absolutely. It's a part of the state law. It's something that is practiced on campuses across the state on at least a quarterly basis.