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11-Year-Old Survivor Took Dead Teacher's Phone, Called 911; Questions About How Gunman Got Into School, Was Barricaded Inside For An House Before Being Killed; NRA Convention To Continue As Planned In Texas After Mass Shooting. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired May 27, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A good Friday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto. Law enforcement did not confront the 18-year-old gunman in Texas before he entered Robb Elementary School and then murdered 19 children and two teachers. These new details, sparking intense scrutiny of a number of official statements, as well as the police's reaction overall, parents frustrated and angry, this is new video shows them confronting police outside the school during the attack.

Right now we still do not know why officers failed to enter the school while the attacker was still firing. Those shots audible from the outside. Here's what we do know. At 11:28 a.m. Central Time, the suspect crashed his truck into a ditch near the school. There's a picture there. He exited the vehicle and fired at two witnesses across the street. At 11:40 a.m., the gunman entered the school through an unlocked door on the west side of the building. There's the video there.

Two minutes later, a teacher sent a text message saying there was an active shooter at the school. It was not until 11:43 that school officials announced they were under lockdown. One minute later, officers entered the school were shot at, and then retreated from the school, as they then called for further forces to join them.

It was not until 12:44, one hour later, that a tactical team comprised of officers from the U.S. Border Patrol, Uvalde -- the Uvalde County Sheriff's Office and Uvalde Police Department made entry and finally shot the suspect. There are several questions, hard questions, understandable ones that have yet to be answered.

This morning, new accounts from inside the classroom where these children and their teachers were killed. I'm joined now by CNN producer, Nora Neus. Nora, you sat down with one of the survivors, an 11-year-old little girl. She was inside the classroom as it all unfolded, remarkable details, harrowing details. What did she tell you?

NORA NEUS, CNN PRODUCER: Hey, Jim, well, 11-year-old fourth grader, Miah Cerrillo, was in Ms. Garcia's and Ms. Mireles's class. And they were watching "Lilo & Stitch" because it was one of the last days of class. And their -- that was what they were doing for one of the last days. Their teacher got word that there was a shooter in the building and she went out to lock the door.

But Miah says the shooter was right there and he shot out the window in the door. She describes it all happening so fast from there, her teacher backing into the classroom and the gunman following. She says the shooter looked one of her teachers in the eye said, good night and then shot her. Then he opened fired shooting the other teacher and a lot of Miah's friends, Miah's friends. She says bullets flew by her and fragments hit her shoulders and her head.

SCIUTTO: Oh, Lord. I heard you describing earlier how she's conscious now that her hair's falling out on those wounds in her head. I understand according to this child that the shooter then went into the adjoining classroom?

NEUS: Yes, Miah says that after shooting a lot of the students in her class, he went through kind of an adjoining door between the two classrooms and she heard screams and then heard him shooting in that classroom, heard a lot of gunshots. After the shots stopped though, she says he started playing music, sad music. I asked her, you know, how would you describe it? And she said it just was sad like you want people to die is how she described it.

SCIUTTO: Poor little girl to have to go through that. So what did she then do in the midst of all this?

NEUS: Miah told me that she was scared that the gunman would come back to kill her and her other few surviving friends. So she says she actually put her hands in the blood from her friend who lay next to her, she was already dead, and then smeared the blood all over herself all over her body so that she could play dead.

SCIUTTO: For a child to have to do that to survive. She told you she called 911?

NEUS: Yes, so before she lay down to play dead. She said that she and her friend actually managed to take the teacher's phone and call 911. And they got in touch with the dispatcher. They were able to talk to someone and kept saying please send help. And what Miah told me was, we're in trouble. That's what they just kept saying, we're in trouble, we're in trouble.

And then Miah and her friend lay down and played dead. Miah told me that it was three hours that she lay there. And her mom said, sweetheart. I think it was closer to one hour but I understand that it probably felt like three hours. So she lay there covered in her friend's blood with her friends and two teachers, lying dead around her.

[09:05:16]

She told me that she assumed the police just weren't there yet. But then afterwards, she heard the grown up, say that the police were there but waiting outside. And that's the first time that she really started crying in the interview. She had been pretty stoic up until then. But that's when she started crying, saying she just didn't understand why like didn't come in and get her. Why wouldn't they come in? Why wouldn't they come in?

SCIUTTO: Goodness. Of course, she'd ask. So what was she like? I mean, this is trauma. This is tremendous psychological trauma for anyone, but particularly for children to tell us how she came across to you.

NEUS: I mean, she's not great. She's really, really traumatized. She still has those bullet fragments in her shoulder and her head. You could see them just like, right, she's like wearing a little tank top. And they were like, just right on her shoulder. Some of the bullet fragments hit her hair and hit her head and her hair fell out. Overnight, what she was really bummed about, she was treated at the hospital and later released.

But the thing that was just remarkable is that she and her parents are very aware of what kind of needs to come next. They really want to focus on therapy for her. But they don't really have the means to pay for therapy. So they actually started a GoFundMe specifically to pay for therapy, they think they'll have to probably drive her to San Antonio, the closest kind of big city.

So that address we actually have and I think we can put it on the screen. The only reason that Miah wanted to do this interview and insisted on doing it even though she was so scared, didn't want to do on camera even refused to speak to a man because she was scared after the shooter, it's because she said that she really wants people to know what happened, what kind of evil this man did. So that maybe something can help prevent other kids from getting shot. She's 11.

SCIUTTO: Goodness. To already be thinking about how she can help others in the midst of this. I'm going to share that GoFundMe page on social media as well. So folks if they missed it, but Nora, thank you for like relating the story. A little girl, 11-years-old.

Just in the CNN, another young victim has now been identified, 10- year-old, Maite Rodriguez. Her mother says she was sweet, charismatic, loving, caring, loyal, free, ambitious, funny, silly, goal driven, and her mom's best friend. She wanted to be a marine biologist, was determined to go to Texas A&M University. Her mother ended a Facebook tribute to her young daughter saying, it's not goodbye. It's -- I'll see you later, my sweet girl. I love you.

An eight-year-old boy who survived the shooting tell CNN, he's afraid to go back to school, saying he knows it will probably happen again and he is afraid someone might shoot him. Another survivor told CNN affiliate WFAA that she knew all of the victims killed in the shooting. Her dad says she was supposed to be in the classroom the gunman targeted but happened to be on the other side of the school for early recess.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AURALEIGHA SANTOS, SURVIVOR: I got really scared and I didn't know who was her or them. And then we started looking around on Facebook. And then I realized that all the people I knew were dead now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you mean they? How many? SANTOS: I knew all of them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel guilty for any ounce of happiness because so many parents went to bed with empty beds last night.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of ex co-workers, a lot of friends.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People we've grown up with.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kids lost like people that we know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Babies we've watched grow up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: All the people she knew were dead.

We're learning more about the timeline of events Tuesday, but there is confusion and anger because there's so many unanswered questions, not just unanswered questions, frankly, but real doubts as to whether the police acted quickly enough. CNN crime and justice correspondent Shimon Prokupecz is outside the school in Uvalde, Texas. Shimon, it's not only that the story has changed, things like the shooter was confronted, was not confronted before he entered the school. It's also that we know there was a long delay to go in, to go into the school. Those kids had to wait inside. What are police saying? How do they explain it?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: You know, Jim, that was exactly what I was trying to do yesterday is to get the director here, the regional director here for the police to explain it. And they had no explanation. We're expected to hear from them later today. I'm hoping they'll give some answers because certainly these families deserve the answers.

[09:10:04]

And you listen to that story of that little girl that Nora interviewed, it just breaks your heart knowing that these kids, these children, those who survived, were in there for an hour, at least an hour wondering where were the rescuers, where were the police officers. Families outside the school wondering the same, why weren't the police going in and rescuing their kids? It's specifically with his classroom that is the question here. This one room where the gunman was, what efforts did the police make to get through that door and to get inside and neutralize him and then rescue those kids in there?

Of course, yesterday, the police releasing this more detailed timeline. And we know what time the police say he got to the school, there's a 12 minute gap in the beginning of when he fires shots, he crashes into that ditch. And then he goes into the school, 12 minutes later, he's outside the school for 12 minutes, Jim. And then he gets inside at 11:40. And then the police arrive and then they go into the school at 11:44. And there is an exchange of gunfire, and then we know who goes into that classroom.

And it is not until an hour later at 12:44 when the Border Patrol tactical team arrives that the tactical team then goes in and confront the gunman. We want to know what is going on in that hour, what are police doing in that hour. And it's still unclear. And of course we know that just after 1 o'clock, police say they shoot the gunman and he dies.

We're also hearing an account from a off duty Border Patrol officer who spoke to "The New York Times." He said he was at the barbershop just sitting down in a chair getting a haircut when his wife, his daughter, his daughter, a student at the school, his wife, a teacher, texted him that there's an active shooter. He grabs a shotgun from the barbershop owner and he comes to the school to rescue his family.

And what he does is he says that he grabs the shotgun, he goes into the school with other officers to rescue his wife. He knew where his daughter was in which part of the school in which wing of the school which was different than where all those students were that were killed and he helps rescue many of the students and obviously his family.

And so now we wait, Jim, we expect to hear more from the police later today. They said they're going to have a press conference here at 12 o'clock Eastern time.

SCIUTTO: They still have a lot of questions to answer. Shimon Prokupecz, thanks so much.

Joining me now to discuss, Jonathan Wackrow, our CNN law enforcement analyst, he's a former secret service agent. And Joseph Giacalone, a law enforcement trainer, former NYPD detective sergeant, also criminal justice professor at John Jay College. Good to have you both on.

Listen, law enforcement officers put themselves at risk here. We know that someone fired at and injured. I'm not one to unduly criticize law enforcement. But the facts of this case show multiple failures, both at the beginning and during this. And Joseph if I could begin with you, we know police training for active shooters post Columbine is to go in immediately. Get a group, first ones there, go in immediately. They did not do that more than an hour. Are there any circumstances, and you train officers, are there any circumstances that would give police cause not to go in immediately, anything?

JOSEPH GIACALONE, LAW ENFORCEMENT TRAINER: Well, unfortunately, when you're looking at a situation like this, like you said, the idea is to neutralize them, at the very least, draw attention away from the other potential victims towards the police. You have to engage this guy immediately. And, yes, you're going to receive gunfire. That's the idea behind it. It sounds, it's crazy as it is, but unfortunately, that's what has to be done.

My question is about the training itself. And the fact that what are these officers that are first responders have the capabilities and the proper weapons to confront somebody that's coming after them with an AR-15? SCIUTTO: Well, you can see on our camera. He appears to be holding a set -- multiple officers there with semi-automatic weapons, body armor. By the way, we now know that the gunman did not have body armor. Jonathan Wackrow, can you envision any circumstances where police had caused not to go in immediately?

JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No. Jim, I cannot. And actually the attempts to clarify this timeline by law enforcement, you know, information officers is really just raising so many new questions in the inconsistency is what's standing out to me, the inconsistency of the actions of law enforcement are -- it's actually contradictory, what they're providing is contradictory to law enforcement active assailant training.

You know, post Columbine as you had stated or earlier was the market, right? Law enforcement has trained to go to, you know, to the assailant right away and neutralize that threat. So I really cannot think of an instance right now even if they were, you know, stuck down in what's referred to as a fatal funnel. They know that there is active killing going on. Law enforcement has a moral and ethical duty to go stop that assailant. And the fact that they didn't and the timeline, the hour, is stunning to me.

[09:15:30]

SCIUTTO: Joseph, another, what appears to be a failure here, at least in terms of response time, 12 minutes of gunfire outside the school, before the shooter entered the school. So there was a warning, an obvious one, guy with a gun, firing that gun on the grounds of school 12 minutes. What does that tell you about the response time here getting officers on site quickly?

GIACALONE: It's another mystery here. So you have 12 minutes that you could have engaged this person. And it's almost as if he was standing there waiting for the police to arrive if he's out there 12 minutes waiting for -- before he goes into school, because let's, you know, face facts, he said to on that text message that he was going to go in and shoot kids in school.

So we know what his exact plan was, however, he waits for probably the police to arrive. This has to be looked at in general, I mean, even in a huge place like New York City, response times are a lot shorter than that, to get to a location even with the amount of traffic that we have. So if there's another issue that needs to be addressed and needs to be examined about exactly why that happened.

SCIUTTO: Jonathan, you had multiple agencies here. We know it was a Customs Border Patrol team that went in, Customs Border Protection team that went into eventually with some other officers involved. But there was a local police, multiple units who would have come in, who would make the call, we go and we go now.

WACKROW: Well, listen, the first officers on scene, that first reporting agency actually supposed to set up the incident command structure, right? So you have an incident commander, that literally is the quarterback. They're literally marshaling the resources that are necessary to address this crisis. They're, you know, providing the coordination by multiple agencies that would be responding. And not only law enforcement agencies, it also is EMS and fire and other supporting agencies to address this issue.

What we saw from the video is we saw a lack of incident command. We saw that, you know, officers were trying to push the public back. There was no communication going out. And we really saw a breakdown to the incident command structure.

SCIUTTO: Yes. It's reports out there, parents being handcuffed by those officers establishing the cordon. Jonathan Wackrow, Joseph Giacalone, thanks for coming on. And we'll have you back as we continue to get new information.

And still to come this hour, the Texas NRA convention, still going to go on just days after the gunman killed those 19 children. We're going to be live in Houston where it's going to be taking place, next.

Plus, progress on gun reform, I know you've heard it before, but some senators Republican and Democrat, are shouting unusually optimistic. Can there be compromised this time. We'll discuss.

[09:18:16]

Plus, the daughter of police officer who arrested a school shooter in Santa Fe Texas in 2018 says that arming teachers, as someone suggested, is definitely not the answer. She will join me live to discuss, stay with us.

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SCIUTTO: On Sunday, President Biden and the First Lady will head to Uvalde, Texas to visit families who lost loved ones in Tuesday's massacre. This visit marks the second time in just two weeks. The President will travel to console a community shattered by a mass shooting. Biden says it is important to show his support for this small town during this devastating time.

Well, the NRA's annual meeting, that's going ahead as planned this weekend in Houston despite the shooting just a few hours to the west. Former President Donald Trump, he's going to headline the event. Texas Senator Ted Cruz also expected to be there. Texas Governor Greg Abbott will not. He canceled his in person appearance in the wake of the Uvalde shooting. He's going to address the convention however in a pre-recorded video.

CNN national correspondent Camila Bernal joins us now live from Houston where the convention will take place. Are others canceling?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Some are, some are not. And look, I think a lot of people here in Houston and really around the country, were hoping that this convention would get canceled or postponed. But as you mentioned, it is moving ahead with its plans.

And so what we're going to see here is protests. That's what we're also expecting here in downtown Houston later on today. In terms of the convention, this is something that hasn't happened in the last three years because in 2020 and 2021, it was canceled because of the pandemic. We're expecting top Republicans, Conservatives, who will be here to speak and also to attend the conference.

One of the biggest events is a leadership forum that happens today. And as you mentioned, it will be or it will feature former President Trump, Senator Ted Cruz. And as you mentioned, Greg Abbott was supposed to speak. He is going to send a video message that's pre- recorded. We're also going to hear from top NRA members.

And as we mentioned, there are some that have canceled altogether. At least four musicians have said that they will not be here. Senator John Cornyn, for example, saying he had a different schedule or a change in his schedule and that's why he won't be here. So still a lot of controversy around this convention.

[09:25:09]

In terms of security, when we're talking about inside of the convention during the time that President Trump will be speaking, all of that is going to be handled by the Secret Service. So they will not allow guns inside of the hall where those speeches will take place.

In terms of outside, it's the Houston Police Department and they say they're going to try to keep everyone safe both the people that are coming to the convention and the protesters. They're going to have two zones, one for protesters, the other for counter protesters. Among those protesters is Beto O'Rourke, the gubernatorial candidate here in Texas, Democrat of course. He is going to be here later on this afternoon.

I've talked to a lot of the organizers here who say it's not only to express their anger and frustration, but they're also wanting to register people to vote in the future. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Camila Bernal in Houston. Thanks so much.

Well, just ahead, a gut wrenching, heartbreaking interview with a second grader, second grader who survived the Uvalde shooting. There he is. Could his story move the conversation on gun control, could any of these children's stories like they happen before? We're going to discuss, coming up.

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