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11-Year-Old Uvalde Survivor Speaks Out; Texas Authorities Admit Failures in Uvalde Massacre. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired May 27, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: And I'm Victor Blackwell.

Much of what we thought we knew about the timeline of the elementary school massacre in Uvalde, Texas, changed today.

CAMEROTA: In a gut-wrenching news conference, the director of the Texas Department of Public Safety admitted that the decision by police not to storm the classrooms where a gunman was shooting and killing children and teachers was -- quote -- "the wrong decision."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVEN MCCRAW, DIRECTOR, TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY: From the benefit of hindsight, where I'm sitting now, of course it was not the right decision. It was the wrong decision, period. There's no excuse for that.

But, again, I wasn't there. But I'm just telling you, from what we know, we believe there should have been an entry as that -- as soon as you can. Hey, when there's an active shooter, the rules change.

It's no longer -- OK, it's not longer a barricaded subject. You don't time. You have worry about outer perimeters.

And, by the way, Texas embraces active shooter training, active shooter certification. And that doctrine requires officers -- we don't care what agency you're from. You don't have to have a leader on the scene. Every officer lines up, stacks up, goes and finds where those rounds are being fired and keeps shooting until the subject is dead, period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: But that's not what happened.

Let's get to CNN's Shimon Prokupecz and Adrienne Broaddus.

Shimon, you have been there on the seen trying to get answers for days. And, this afternoon, we got them. And they're devastating.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: They are truly devastating.

And you just feel for these families to hear the police, the leading agency here, the Department of -- I can't even say their name -- the DPS people, public safety, to hear him say that a wrong decision was made, I can't even imagine what these families are going through.

And you're right, Alisyn. We finally got a more detailed timeline of what happened. And so let's just take a look at that and just go straight from the beginning of that day, since we now finally have this timeline, something we have been asking for.

That morning, on -- 11:27, video shows the gunman -- actually, let me say, at 11:27 a.m., video shows that there's a schoolteacher. Doors open. She left the door -- the schoolteacher left the door open. And then, at 11:28, there's a car crash. We know about this. The car goes in the ditch.

And then, at 11:30, at 11:30, we have our first 911 call about the crash. And then the suspect is seen exiting the car. Significant here is then we start getting reports. Police do that. The first shots are fired towards the school. And that is when the resource officer arrives to the scene.

Remember, we had been told that the resource officer was here. Well, yesterday and now today, they say that was not the case. The resource officer should have been here. That resource officer was not there.

And then we just go into this timeline. Some of this information, we already know, the suspect entering the school, the three police officers entering the school, followed by another three officers.

And then, at 12:03 -- and here's where, sadly, it's just devastating, because 19 police officers, law enforcement officials are in the hallway outside the classroom door while kids inside this room are calling 911, whispering, asking for help.

And then, at 12:21, there are more gunshots. That's how the police described -- and during that time, what are the police doing? They're there. The decision, this really troubling decision that the police chief made, the police chief of the school police here on scene, not to breach the door, not to go inside is something that is not protocol, is something that law enforcement does not train for.

As the head of DPS said, when there is a threat, an active shooter threat, you go inside. Why this police chief thought that this was a barricaded situation and not an active shooter situation, we don't have the answer to that.

But take a listen here, guys, as I was asking the head of DPS here some of the questions about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PROKUPECZ: You say there were 19 officers gathered in the hallway or somewhere. What efforts were made to try and break through that door? You say it was locked. What efforts were the officers making to try and break through either that door or another door to get inside that classroom?

MCCRAW: None at that time.

PROKUPECZ: Why?

[14:05:00]

MCCRAW: The on-scene commander at the time believed that it had transitioned from an active shooter to a barricaded subject.

PROKUPECZ: Sir, you have people who are alive, children who are calling 911, saying, please send the police. They are alive in that classroom. There are lives that are at risk.

That's not protocol, is it?

MCCRAW: We're well aware of that.

PROKUPECZ: Right, but why was the decision made not to go in and rescue these children?

MCCRAW: Again, the on-scene commander considered it a barricaded subject and that there was time and there were no more children at risk.

PROKUPECZ: And what time was that?

(CROSSTALK)

MCCRAW: Obviously, based upon the information we have, there were children in the classroom that were at risk, and it was, in fact, still an active shooter situation, and not a barricaded subject.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PROKUPECZ: And you hear there the head of the DPS there exactly saying that.

The his was not a barricaded situation. This was an active shooter situation. And now, of course, the question about that resource officer, the director of DPS was asked about that. Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCRAW: That officer was not on scene, not on campus, but had heard the 911 call with a man with a gun, drove immediately to the area, sped to what he thought was the man with the gun to the back of the school and what turned out to be a teacher, and not the suspect.

In doing so, he drove right by the suspect, who was hunkered down behind a vehicle, where he began shooting at the school.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PROKUPECZ: And then, moments later, as we know, the gunman enters the school, the resource officer, the school officer not seeing this gunman as he was ducking in between these cars, which then allow the gunman to climb a fence and then enter the school.

And, obviously, there's a lot of questions here now about what are the next steps. Who's going to investigate this? And we will see. We're waiting to hear on that.

BLACKWELL: You can only imagine the torture for parents, wondering, was my child alive and could have been saved if you have gone in that classroom 45 minutes earlier?

Adrienne, we got several timelines today. Shimon just gave us a law enforcement timeline. There's also the 911 calls. Weave those together and how this fits into this timeline.

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Director McCraw gave a warning before he revealed that 911 timeline, telling it's better for him to read the timeline, rather than allowing us to listen.

The first call came from a panicked teacher around 11:30. The next call came from a girl in room 112. That was at three after noon. That same person in room 112 calls back and says, multiple people are dead. That's at 12:10.

And then she calls back again at 12:13. At 12:16, the girl in room 112 calls and says, eight to nine students are alive. This is key. This is critical. At least eight to nine students are still alive. And then at 12:19, a different caller calls 911.

That person who called, according to Director McCraw, someone in the room told that caller to hang up, and then the dispatcher heard several shots over the call. Around 12:36, the girl from room 112 calls back. The operator is asking her to stay on the line, but be quiet. She says, he shot the door.

And it's important to underscore, when she initially called, she was speaking in a whisper. So, at 12:43 p.m., that caller says, please send the police now. At 12:46, she says it again. She said she could hear the police next door. Think about it. Children are taught at a young age to call 911 if there's trouble, if there's danger. Call 911, parents tell us. Help will be on the way.

These callers are pleading for help. At 12:47, the same thing. Please send the police now. At 12:50, the shots are fired, and they can be heard over the call. At 12:55 p.m., the 911 operator reports loud commotion, saying it sounds like officers are moving children out of the room.

That's at 12:55 p.m., nearly an hour and 20 minutes after that initial call from the panicked teacher. After revealing this timeline, Director McCraw was visibly shaken. This is how he responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCRAW: Yes, thanks a lot. Forget how I'm doing. What about the parents of those children? Forget

about me. Forget about me or our officers and stuff like that. We take an oath to uphold the law and protect people. And any time something tragic like this, we want to know why it happened, and if we can do it better next time, is the bottom line.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:10:22]

BROADDUS: Those students pleading for help as they dealt with that haunting ordeal -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Tell us about the digital footprint, Adrienne.

BROADDUS: So, we are getting a look at his digital footprint.

Investigators -- well, Director McCraw -- I want to go back to him -- said that he asked his sister to help him back in 2021. And we're going to show you this timeline on the screen as we go through it. And Director McCraw says his sister refused. Then, in February 28 of this year, there was a group chat, which discussed this 18-year-old being a shooter on Instagram.

That's not where it ended. Let's flip the page and show you the next graphic where there was another group chat, where, in March, he discussed buying a gun in that Instagram group chat. Two days later, he was asked if he was buying a gun. And he replied: "Just bought something rn."

And then the -- someone in that group chat responded, asking him if he was going to shoot up a school. Hold on. I'm going to backtrack. I'm getting ahead of myself, because, on March 14, he posted: "Ten more days on Instagram."

A user replied: "Are you going to shoot up the school or something."

His response: "No. Stop asking dumb questions. You will see."

So, chilling details. We have been asking for the timeline. My colleague Shimon has been pressing for questions. Finally, we got some of those answers. And now these answers are most likely weighing heavy on parents, who are now left with more questions. At what point could their child have been saved? -- Alisyn.

BLACKWELL: It's awful.

Adrienne Broaddus, Shimon Prokupecz, thank you for the reporting.

Let's bring it now retired LAPD Sergeant Cheryl Dorsey and former FBI Supervisory Special Agent Steve Moore.

Sergeant, let me start with you, because this is the question I have. And Alisyn I discussed this. You have got the head of the school district police force, which is maybe six or seven officers, calling the shots on this active shooter situation. You have got 19 law enforcement members in the hallway.

At what point do the officers say, you are wrong here, you obviously don't know what you're doing, break chain of command, and go in? Is that something that could have or typically would have happened if you're getting this wrong?

CHERYL DORSEY, RETIRED LAPD POLICE SERGEANT: Well, it certainly should have happened. It could have happened.

I believe that those other officers are obviously from a different agency, don't know the ranks, don't know who was the highest ranking officer in that group of 19. But, listen, it's just common sense.

And how could anybody who's been properly trained and armed themselves hear what was going on in that classroom and not take action? And so there was a colossal failure, we now know, on every level. I don't know if the 911 dispatchers are probably not used to handling this type of an emergency and didn't articulate what needed to be told as they're hearing it from the children calling.

And then you have the on-scene officers who because some of them were reported to have said, well, I'm afraid to go at him because I don't want to get shot, not doing their duty, neglect of duty, not acting, and we wind up with 19 babies dead.

It's unimaginable and inexplicable.

CAMEROTA: And, Steve, I mean, basically, you heard there, the head -- the director of the Department of Public Safety echoing all of that.

I mean, he seemed full of regret and remorse at the mistakes that were made, because, as he said, we in Texas embrace the active shooter doctrine. We have been trained in this. You go in. You go in when there's an active shooter, and no questions asked.

And so similar question that Victor just asked. Who should have been in charge? I mean, obviously, how could the man who runs the six - person force of the school police force, why was he the commanding officer, when we know that Customs and Border Patrol were there, U.S. Marshals were there, the sheriff's office was there, the Uvalde Police Department was there?

How did they decide who was the commanding officer?

STEVE MOORE, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Well, one person can claim it, but that doesn't mean they own it.

I used to teach active shooter procedures. And here's the issue with active -- active shooter response. They're real -- you're your own incident commander if you're the first one there, or the second one there, and there are shots going off, and you have got an active shooter. You don't wait to be told.

[14:15:04]

You don't wait to be told. And you don't wait to be stopped. You go. That's the way it is. The days of -- the days of setting up a perimeter and calling SWAT are over, because people will have bled out before you get there.

This is on as much as the individual officers in the hall as it is in somebody who is claiming control of the situation. When you hear shots, you go do it. It's active shooter protocol. You have been taught, do it.

BLACKWELL: Sergeant Dorsey, for days, we have been told that this shooter barricaded himself in these classrooms.

I don't know the law enforcement definition of barricade, but it sounds far more dramatic than what we learned a short time ago, that, simply, the door was locked. And once they contacted the janitor, they got a key to the classroom, opened the door. And that's when they shot and killed him. And that was the end of that.

Your reaction to hearing that they just had to get a key from the janitor to open the door to end this?

DORSEY: You know, it's -- it's so sad to think that lives could have been saved very simply.

And because of this compilation of errors, if you will, to my mind, barricaded suspect means this person has locked himself in a room, and no one else can gain access to that room. And so had they not ever planned, thought about, practiced? We play like we practice. It's never a problem until it's a problem. And complacency will get you killed.

In addition to everything else that we're hearing, we now know that the school resource officer wasn't even on site, small school site, small police department, two days before the end of the school year. I guess he thought he just take a little me time and decided to venture off and do lord knows what. And look what happened.

CAMEROTA: I mean, and who knows what would have happened had he been there.

There have been other armed guards at other school shootings who couldn't stop -- who were just outgunned by -- when a school shooter shows up? We don't know. All we know, I think, for sure is that there were kids alive in those classrooms, Steve, because they were calling 911.

I mean, the idea that those kids, for 40 minutes, were sitting there, were lying there with their friends and teachers who had been killed -- I mean, the story of one of the girls, 11 years old, who had to smear blood on herself from her friend because she had to play dead, and then made it to her teacher's cell phone to try to call 911 more than once, and kept asking, where are the police?

I mean, it's just -- it's -- I will give you the last word quickly.

MOORE: It's just -- it's just incomprehensible. Barricade means you have blocked the door, not just locked the door. There were also windows in the classroom. They could have addressed the subject through there. The police officers' job is to get the shooter to shoot at them, not at children.

They missed the concept.

BLACKWELL: Steve, last one here.

There's a member of Congress who says that the FBI should now be investigating local law enforcement's handling of this. Do you support that and do you think the FBI should investigate?

MOORE: Yes. Yes.

And, generally, I kind of bristle at the FBI coming in. Like, if you're coming into LAPD or NYPD, they generally have the skills to handle their own things. But this is something where I don't think the people on scene know what they don't know.

And so somebody at a larger -- at a higher level needs to look at this and really point out what's at stake when you don't do your job.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

Steve Moore, Sergeant Cheryl Dorsey, thank you both.

CAMEROTA: So, up next, CNN is going to sit down with that 11-year-old survivor that I was just talking about who was inside the classroom. She repeatedly called police.

She could not understand why they weren't coming in to help.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:23:29]

BLACKWELL: A CNN exclusive now.

A student talked about how she survived just feet from the killer.

Miah Cerrillo is 11 years old. She saw the worst of the carnage.

CAMEROTA: She told CNN producer Nora Neus that she wanted to share her story now to help other children.

And Nora joins us now.

Nora, great to see you.

So, we just heard from Texas police officials trying to explain why they did not storm that classroom where the children were killed, even though two of the students, including Miah, was calling -- were calling 911 and begging them to come in.

So, what did Miah tell you about what was happening during that time? NORA NEUS, CNN PRODUCER: At that point, Miah thought that the police

just hadn't gotten there yet. And that's what she told me.

And they were sheltering in this classroom. And she was worried that the gunman was about to come back any minute and shoot her and kill her. So she took her hands and put her hands on the body of a dead friend next to her, took her blood, and smeared it all over her body, so that she could play dead.

And they called 911, as you said and as we heard from the police here today, and manage to make contact, spoke to a dispatcher, told them what was going on. And Miah -- Miah said to me: "We just kept saying, like, we're in trouble. We're in trouble. Please come and save us. Please come and get us."

And up until that point in the interview, she had been pretty stoic. She, I think, was just so much still in shock that she hadn't expressed a lot of emotion, but it was at that point that she started crying and said: "I overheard the grownups talking about how the police were outside, and they just didn't come and get us."

[14:25:10]

Her friend, another friend was shot in the leg next to her, and was alive still. And this other friend started screaming. And they were so worried, these 11-year-olds, that the gunman would hear their friend, that they had to put their hand over the mouth of their screaming, injured, shot friend to try to muffle her screams so that the gunman didn't come back and kill them.

That's what was happening in that classroom.

BLACKWELL: It's just heartbreaking to envision these fourth graders here...

CAMEROTA: Impossible.

BLACKWELL: ... smearing blood on themselves trying to hide, quieting a friend who's been shot.

Let's start at the beginning, though. When was the first sign that Miah told you that she thought there was something wrong, that maybe there was trouble?

NEUS: They were watching "Lilo & Stitch," the movie, in their classroom because it was the end of the school year. They were having fun because they were done with their lessons.

And Miah says her teacher ran over her computer, and she got an e-mail -- that's what Miah says -- that there was a shooter in the classroom. And so the teacher ran to the door to lock it, and the gunman was right there. He made eye contact with the teacher, shot out the window in the door, and then backed the teacher back into the classroom.

He started kind of advancing on the teacher and finally stopped, looked the teacher in the eye, said, "Good night," and then shot and killed the teacher.

CAMEROTA: Nora, I know this is an unanswerable question, but because you sat with Miah, how is an 11-year-old going to process, going to get through the trauma of everything that you have just described?

What's she going to do with the trauma of having watched her classmates and teachers get killed?

NEUS: At this point, it's really an hour at a time and then a day at a time, it seems.

On a personal level, I mean, what do you say to an 11-year-old who's telling you this kind of stuff? And I had interviewed a Sandy Hook survivor who is a small child, younger even then than Miah. And I told Miah yesterday: "I have interviewed other kids who have survived this and, like, they're OK. They get through this, and they get stronger. And I really do believe that this will get better for you, even if it might feel hopeless right now."

And I'm a reporter. I mean, I'm not a therapist, but that was what I thought I could say.

BLACKWELL: Yes, it certainly sounded like the right thing to tell a small child who is at this point going through this trauma.

How did it end for her? How did she reunite with her family?

NEUS: Yes, so, after all that time waiting, laying on the floor, covered in her friend's blood, the police finally did rescue them and brought them outside.

But when she went outside, she saw her mom. She saw her parents waiting. And she was saying, "Mom, mom," and wanting to hug her parents.

And the police -- the way they tell it, both mom and daughter, the police wouldn't let them hug, wouldn't let them touch. The police ushered the kids away, put them in a school bus, refused to let them interact, refused to tell the parents where the kids were going.

And that school bus took off, ended up going to the hospital. And they were reunited much later. But they say that just added to the anguish of the whole day.

CAMEROTA: Just another strange decision by the police that we keep hearing about. Why would you forbid the parents from comforting and hugging their children or telling them where they're going?

Nora Neus, thank you so much. This is such a valuable conversation that you had with Miah. And we really appreciate you sharing it with us.

So, right now, in Texas, just a few hours away from that horrible elementary school shooting, a celebration of the Second Amendment. The NRA will be holding its annual meeting. Protests are taking place outside of that convention. So, we will take you there live.

BLACKWELL: Plus, a bipartisan group of senators, they are meeting today and through the weekend on gun reform. Is there a path forward on new legislation?

We will talk about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)