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VP Harris Attends Funeral For Oldest Buffalo Massacre Victim; Interview With Rep. Mike Thompson (D-CA); VP Renews Push For Assault Weapons Ban After Mass Shooting; McCarthy Refuses To Comply With Jan. 6 Committee Subpoena; Why The GOP Feels Little Pressure For Stricter Gun Measures; Clashes Between Police, Fans Mar Champions League Final. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired May 28, 2022 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:15]

KAMALA HARRIS (D), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will not stand for this. Enough is enough. We will not let those people who are motivated by hate separate us or make us feel fear.

STEVEN MCCRAW, TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY: Of course, it was not the right decision. It was a wrong decision. Period.

ALFRED GARZA, FATHER OF UVALDE, TEXAS SHOOTING VICTIM: They needed to act immediately. There's kids involved, there's a gun involved. There's an active shooter.

ROLAND GUTIERREZ, TEXAS STATE SENATOR: How an 18-year-old can access militarized weaponry anywhere is beyond me. And so please stay engaged. Please stay engaged because they'll listen to you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't forget them, please. Do something about it. I beg you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jose Flores, show him to the state, the nation. Show him to the world.

I want everybody to know him.

When he died, I died part with him.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We cannot outlaw tragedy. We can make America safer. We can finally do what we have to, to protect the lives of the people and of our children.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

It is Memorial Day weekend, a time to honor the men and women who have died serving in the military. This year, the nation approaches this holiday in grief and shock after two horrific mass shootings over the last two weeks.

Tomorrow, President Biden will travel to Uvalde, Texas to mourn with the community heartbroken by Tuesday's school massacre. Nineteen Children, mere fourth graders, slaughtered along with their two teachers.

And today in Buffalo, New York, Vice President Kamala Harris attended the funeral of Ruth Whitfield. She is the last to be buried of the 10 people murdered in the racist supermarket attack two weeks ago today.

Harris spoke to the nation and the Whitfield family.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: I cannot even begin to express our collective pain as a nation for what you are feeling in such an extreme way, to not only lose someone that you love, but through an act of extreme violence and hate, and I do believe that our nation right now is experiencing an epidemic of hate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: In Texas, stunned parents are planning funerals for their children, but there is also growing outrage over the bungled police response.

More than one hour passed between the first 9-1-1 call and the moment the gunman was shot and killed, and that is despite 19 law enforcement officers outside those classroom doors, taking no action as they waited for more equipment, according to Texas officials.

So let's begin this hour in Uvalde. CNN's Adrienne Broaddus is there. Adrienne, what are parents telling you?

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, good afternoon.

There is a mix of emotions, some are angry, they're upset, they're frustrated, and now that the timeline has become more clear, that anger has mounted. They're wondering, how did this happen?

They're frustrated, because the commander who was responsible for the scene on Tuesday withheld his officers from going in. And I keep hearing the same question repeatedly: "Why did that person do this? How could he do this?"

We have not heard from the commander who was responsible for this scene since this timeline became more clear. And the local Senator here, Senator Gutierrez is weighing in on the conversation, at times emotional.

Listen in to what you said earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTIERREZ: Now, we're all angry. Law enforcement is angry.

I had a long conversation this morning on the way in with Steve McCraw and he was crying to me and I'm crying to him and everybody is frustrated about the failures of what happened.

He has assured me that I will have a detailed report including ballistics by next week. I want to know when each agency was here. Moving forward, never -- he assured me that never again will DPS stand down for any law enforcement agency.

I hope that that's true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROADDUS: And so to the parents, they hope it's true not only for this community, but other communities across the country.

This weekend was supposed to be a weekend of celebration. Thursday was the last day of the school year. The seniors at the high school didn't get a chance to have their traditional graduation, and for the rest of their lives, those seniors will remember their end of, you know education from K through 12th grade, they will remember this, they will remember what happened and that's not fair to them.

[18:05:18]

BROADDUS: Think about it. Last year, there weren't traditional graduations due to COVID, and these kids didn't get to have a regular or normal summer in this community last year, because of COVID. And that's a big reason why they were looking forward to this summer. This summer, that will be far from a celebratory one -- Pamela.

BROWN: Right. You know, it's the unofficial start of summer. This weekend is the time where you bring your kids to get, you know, ice cream or go to the pool. And I just keep thinking about those parents, 19 parents who will instead be burying their child. It's just beyond words, beyond comprehension.

And what do we know on that note, about the funeral preparations in the coming days -- Adrienne.

BROADDUS: From what we've seen online, the first funeral for one of the victims will take place on Monday, and those services will follow over the coming days, all the way into June.

Some families have decided to have private ceremonies. Other ceremonies will be public.

I've been reading through some of the obituaries of the children, and there was one obituary of a 10-year-old girl where her family wrote: "She was looking forward to growing up and becoming a chemist." So those dreams were cut short, and you just can't help but to think about that timeline and the 9-1-1 calls.

If you've ever called 9-1-1, it seems like forever when you're waiting for first responders to show up. More than an hour and 15 minutes past from the time that initial call was placed from the panicked teacher at 11:30 to the time when the shooter was killed -- Pamela.

BROWN: Adrienne Broaddus, thank you.

And I want to bring in Congressman Mike Thompson of California. He is a Democrat and chairs the House Gun Violence Prevention Task Force. We want to note, he is also a gun owner and a hunter.

Congressman, thank you for coming on the show. So after Buffalo and Uvalde, Vice President Harris is calling for a ban on assault weapons.

Let's listen to her comments this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: We know what works on this. It includes, let's have an assault weapons ban. You know what an assault weapon is? You know how an assault weapon was designed? It was designed for a specific purpose -- to kill a lot of human beings quickly.

An assault weapon is a weapon of war with no place -- no place in a civil society.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Congressman, do you believe banning the sale of these military style weapons would make a difference in the nation's gun violence? And is it something you would support?

REP. MIKE THOMPSON (D-CA): Well, thank you.

As you note, I am a gun owner, but I'm also a combat veteran. I served a tour of duty in combat with the 173rd Airborne Brigade in Vietnam and I have experience on both ends of what is known as an assault weapon. And Vice President Harris is absolutely correct, they are designed to be lethal, they are designed to be able to cause as much damage as possible in a short amount of time.

And I personally don't believe that there is any need for those types of weapons in our communities. There is an effort in Congress to reinstate the ban on assault weapons. We know that the crime numbers were better when that ban was in place, and it is something that is being worked on now.

BROWN: Responding to the shooting in Uvalde the other day, President Biden weighed in on this tweeting: We know commonsense gun laws can't and won't prevent every tragedy, but we do know that they weren't going to have a positive impact. When we passed the assault weapons ban, mass shootings went down; when the law expired, mass shootings tripled."

And the Federal Assault Weapons Ban expired in 2004. You noted this, there is some research that confirms what Biden said, including from a 2019 New York University School of Medicine study.

So you know, you said the Congress right now is working on this, but if this can't get passed, if you cannot get the numbers to pass this, do you think something like raising the age limit for buying an assault rifle, something like that could actually get through right now?

THOMPSON: Well, there's no one law, there is no one bill that can be passed that would solve all of the issues related to gun violence, but there are a number of things that we can do and have been doing for some time.

[18:10:10]

THOMPSON: I have legislation over in the Senate, passed the House with a bipartisan vote, supported by 90 percent of the American people that will expand background checks to make sure that before someone buys a gun, they have to pass a background check to make certain that they are not a danger to themselves or to others. And the bill can't even be taken up for a vote in the Senate, because out of the 50 Republican senators, there aren't 10 of them that will join the 50 Democratic senators to provide the 60 votes necessary to bring it up for a bill -- for a vote.

So we're working on a number of issues and we're trying to make sure that we can break through this partisan wall that has been built in the Senate. As far as raising the age limit to purchase an assault style weapon, yes, that's a bill that I believe you'll see pass the House the week of June the sixth, and that will be sent over to the Senate.

But we need to get some more courage on the side of the Republican senators to start working on these issues and to work with Democrats to make sure that we can pass gun violence prevention legislation, legislation that, as I point out, has the support of 90 percent of the American people.

BROWN: Yes. So then why do you think that the legislation that has been in the Senate there just stalled, that is supported by so many Americans, why don't you think it is passed? I mean, what do you think the reason is, behind that? I hear you say that Republicans need more courage to be able to get on board. I mean, at the end of the day, what is it bottom line?

THOMPSON: Well, it's not just what I say. The rules of the Senate require 60 votes amongst the senators to bring a bill up for vote. And they are not 10 Republican senators that will join the 50 Democratic senators --

BROWN: But why? I'm asking why --

THOMPSON: But you'd have to ask them. If I was you, I'd start by asking the two senators from Texas. We need 10 Republican senators to vote to bring a background check bill up for a vote, and if we get that we'll get it passed.

Now, I know that Senator Murphy from Connecticut is working overtime right now, trying to convince this senators to come to the forefront and compromise on this legislation, so we can keep our kids safe and our community safe. Hopefully he'll be successful.

BROWN: This week, you mentioned the senator from Texas, this week, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell told CNN that he had, quote, "Encouraged Texas Senator John Cornyn to take part in bipartisan talks about legislation directly related to the Texas school massacre." What do you make of that? THOMPSON: Well, I am an optimist, I've been working on just the

Background Check Bill since the Sandy Hook tragedy. So I'm constantly hopeful that we'll see a surprise over in the Senate and that the Republicans will work with the Democratic senators to get some legislation passed that would expand background checks.

I hope that happens, and I hope that Senator McConnell and Senator Cornyn will in fact, do more than just talk about it.

BROWN: Are you concerned that in the wake of these mass shootings, there's always really heightened passions and anger and frustration and rhetoric that is thrown across the aisle on both sides? You know, you were talking earlier about breaking through the partisanship that that is hampering any gun control legislation. Are you concerned that that only makes it harder for you to do your job when other Democrats, other Democratic lawmakers are lobbying criticisms at Republicans?

THOMPSON: That's a fact. The bill has been over in the Senate for over a year, and they have not been able to get the support to bring it up for a vote. That's not criticism. It's not lobbying criticism. That's just stating a fact.

We need 60 votes to bring a background check bill to the floor. As soon as we get that, I'm confident that it will pass and I'm confident that President Biden will sign it into law, and we know for a fact that background checks work.

Every day, 150 felons are prevented from buying guns where background checks are required, another 50 domestic abusers are prevented from buying guns, but in many states, they can walk out the door of the licensed dealer where the background checks are required and they can go next door and buy a gun where a license -- or a background check isn't required. That's a problem.

[18:15:09]

THOMPSON: We know that expanding background checks (AUDIO GAP) lives. We know it would be a vast improvement, and we need to get this thing passed.

BROWN: Okay, Congressman Mike Thompson, thank you for making time for us on this Memorial Day weekend.

Well, if you'd like to help people coping with the aftermath of the Texas School shooting, go to cnn.com/impact and find out how you can make a difference.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Still ahead in tonight's debate, we are asking if arming teachers is really the way to stop school shootings.

But first more of that passionate speech from the Vice President, as America grapples with one senseless mass shooter after another.

We'll be right back. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Enough is enough. We will come together based on what we all know we have in common and we will not let those people who are motivated by hate separate us or make us feel fear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:14]

BROWN: As the nation grieves for Uvalde, Vice President Kamala Harris spent today in Buffalo, New York, and she honored the victims of the racist mass shooting at the supermarket two weeks ago today.

Harris laid flowers at a shrine outside the Tops Friendly Market Store where 10 people were murdered, and she spoke at the funeral of 86- year-old Ruth Whitfield, the oldest victim of the massacre. Whitfield had just left a nursing home where her husband lives to stop for groceries.

Just before leaving Buffalo, the Vice President made a new push for a longtime goal of the Biden administration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: We know what works on this. It includes -- let's have an assault weapons ban. You know what an assault weapon is? You know how an assault weapon was designed? It was designed for a specific purpose, to kill a lot of human beings quickly.

An assault weapon is a weapon of war, with no place -- no place in a civil society.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Harris did not respond to a shout a question on whether President Biden would pursue an Executive Order for an assault weapons ban if Congress doesn't pass meaningful gun reform.

Well, CNN's Joe Johns is in Buffalo.

Joe, the Vice President had an impassioned message at the memorial service as well.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Pamela, very impassioned and very brief talk between three and four minutes. Now, she did talk to people while she was here, including family members of the victims. That would include of course, the family of Ruth Whitfield, the 86 year old woman who has been memorialized here at Mount Olive Church.

But the guidance had been when she came up that she didn't want to speak at the memorial service, apparently because she was concerned it might politicize the event, but during the eulogy, she was called on to speak by Reverend Al Sharpton, and at that time she delivered this brief soliloquy about her concerns on hate and on fear, two of the things she says that tie together so many of the mass shootings in the United States. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: I'm not going to say anything about Reverend Sharpton right now.

Good afternoon, church.

GROUP: Good afternoon.

HARRIS: To the Whitfield family, the father of the Whitfield family, Mr. Whitfield.

[APPLAUSE]

HARRIS: The pain that this family is feeling right now and the nine other families here in Buffalo, I cannot even begin to express our collective pain as a nation for what you are feeling in such an extreme way.

To not only lose someone that you love, but through an act of extreme violence and hate, and I do believe that our nation right now is experiencing an epidemic of hate. And as we know, and Scripture teaches us, when we talk about strength, the strength, of personality, the strength of spirit, the strength of faith, I think we all know that a true measure of strength is not based on who you beat down, it's based on who you lift up.

[CHEERING AND APPLAUSE]

HARRIS: You lift up -- and it means then also in that strength, understanding we will not allow small people to create fear in our communities, that we will not be afraid to stand up for what is right, to speak truth even when it may be difficult to hear and speak.

There's a through line.

What happened here in Buffalo, in Texas, in Atlanta, in Orlando; what happened at the synagogues, and so this is a moment that requires all good people, our God-loving people to stand up and say we will not stand for this.

Enough is enough. We will come together based on what we all know we have in common and we will not let those people who are motivated by hate separate us or make us feel fear.

So I'm here to say that we are all in this together. No one should ever be made to fight alone. We are stronger than those who would try to hurt us think that we are. We are strong.

We are strong in our faith. We are strong in our belief about what is right and our determination to act to ensure that we protect all those who deserve to be protected, that we see all those who deserve to be seen, that we hear the voices of the people, and that we rise up in solidarity, to speak out against this and to speak to our better angels.

Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: If White House's schedule tells you anything about White House priorities, it's important to note this is the second visit of top White House principals to Buffalo since the shooting, and the shooting was exactly two weeks ago today.

So the White House, while showing support for Buffalo, is also keeping the shooting here very much on the radar -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right, thank you so much, Joe Johns in Buffalo.

Well, you're in the CNN NEWSROOM, the top House Republican has a message for the January 6 Committee. He will only comply with their subpoena if they meet his demands. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:56]

BROWN: Welcome back to the show, 6:30 pm Eastern time here in the nation's Capitol, beautiful day here on this Memorial Day. We appreciate you taking the time to watch this show.

Well, the January 6 Committee continues to collect evidence ahead of its highly anticipated public hearings, but a key witness Kevin McCarthy sends word he will not comply with his subpoena unless the Committee meets his demands. CNN's Ryan Nobles is on Capitol Hill. So Ryan, time is getting tight, isn't it?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Pam, we are now less than two weeks away from the January 6 Select Committee holding those big public hearings which many have been anticipating for some time, but this was supposed to be a period of time where the Committee hoped to hear from some Republican lawmakers that they'd issued subpoenas to. But across the board, these Republican members have rejected the attempts to get them to comply.

In fact, Congressman Kevin McCarthy is, of course, the House Minority Leader, has sent the Committee a lengthy letter through his attorney where he rejects the Committee's request saying that they were not formed constitutionally, that it was not - that it's not legally valid and therefore he doesn't need to comply. It's very similar to a letter that Jim Jordan sent also, Representative Scott Perry and Andy Biggs all sent to the Committee rejecting their asked for them to comply.

Now, what this means is that the Committee is now in a difficult position, how do they enforce these subpoenas that they issued, do they take the route of a criminal contempt referral or do they send this request to the Ethics Committee, regardless, it seems unlikely that they're going to get the information that they're looking for from these members of Congress, especially ahead of these hearings.

So now, all signs point to just what the Committee will reveal when these hearings start on June 9. It's not exactly clear what they haven't shown the public as of yet, what information hasn't been brought out to light and how they plan to weave a narrative that will be compelling to the American people, especially when they're talking about an event that has now happened more than a year ago.

Still, the Committee believes that they are up to that task. They're in the final stages of planning that event. We're trying to figure out what if any witnesses they are going to invite to participate and then what themes they will focus on when the hearings do take place. Between now and then, Committee - the Committee expects to be behind closed doors working day and night to get these hearings ready to go remains to be seen just exactly what they will accomplish once the hearings actually take place, Pam?

BROWN: Thank you so much. Well, an alleged Nazi sympathizer has become the latest January 6 rioter convicted by a jury in Washington. He packed his defense on an unusual claim that he didn't know Congress met at the U.S. Capitol. CNN's Whitney Wild has more.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, Timothy Hale- Cusanelli was the fifth January 6th rioter to be convicted by a jury in Washington, D.C. Hale-Cusanelli is an accused Nazi sympathizer who yelled for the mob to advance during the riot. He defended his actions by claiming he didn't know Congress met at the United States Capitol.

Several jurors rolled their eyes during this explanation and the judge said he found that claim highly dubious. There were three jurors who at first were not convinced he was guilty, and it took more than five hours of deliberation for the jury to come to a unanimous conclusion. Jurors told CNN that the jury debated whether or not Hale-Cusanelli traveled to D.C. with the intent to stop the certification of the Electoral College. That was a key legal requirement needed to find him guilty.

He faces up to 20 years behind bars for the felony of obstructing an official proceeding. The ultimate sentence though could be a lot lower. Sentencing is scheduled for September 16th, Pamela.

[18:35:05]

BROWN: All right. Thanks so much, Whitney.

Well, for the longest time even before the school shooting in Uvalde, gun reform has been a very polarizing topic. So what needs to change to get Americans on the same page? Our Harry Enten joins us next to run the numbers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:39:56]

BROWN: After every mass shooting there are social uproar across the country, heated debates, breakout over guns, do we have too many, do we have enough. Well, time - it's time once again

After every mass shooting, there are social uproar across the country heated debates break out over guns. Do we have too many do we have enough? Well, time - it's time once again to check in with CNN Senior Data Reporter, Harry Enten, to run the numbers. So Harry, people are so shocked and upset about what happened in Uvalde. But the data revealed there is still not enough political pressure to enact stricter gun measures, how was that possible?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPOERTER: Look, I just look at the numbers. And Gallup runs a very interesting poll and essentially asks are you satisfied with the state of gun laws in this country, and if you're dissatisfied, do you want stricter laws, do you want less strict laws.

Look at this, 54 percent of Americans say they're either satisfied or want less strict laws, just 36 percent say they're dissatisfied and want stricter. What I really like about this question is there could be some people kind of on the fence whether they want strict or less strict, but they're overall satisfied.

This basically gets it both people's opinions, but also how powerful they feel about their opinions. And a majority of folks in this country are either satisfied or want less strict gun laws in this country. That's what the data shows us.

BROWN: And how is something as basic as expanded background checks done at the ballot box?

ENTEN: Yes. What I love about ballot measures, is that you - forget the polling, actually go to the elections go, to the ballot box. What we had back in 2016 in both Maine and Nevada, they essentially asked, okay, do you want to expand background checks in the States.

And look at that, in Maine, it passed by - it actually failed, it failed by three points, in Nevada it barely passed. It barely passed by just one percentage point. And keep in mind, these were two swing states. These are states that are sitting right, basically, in the center of the electorate. They were barely won by Hillary Clinton back in 2016. So the fact that something as simple and basic as background checks were barely - were we're basically 50-50 propositions in the states tells you the state of the American public on gun control, they're very split even on something as basic as background checks.

BROWN: And will the shooting at Uvalde change opinion?

ENTEN: Yes. Yes, it will, most likely. Look, unfortunately, in this country, we've had so many school shootings, right: Columbine, Sandy Hook, Parkland, after all of those there was in fact, increased support for stricter gun laws. And that's why I would make the argument to those folks who want to act now is the time, now, now, now, because what essentially occurs is you get this pump up for stricter gun control from the American public right after these massacres and then it starts to evaporate.

So if folks want, in fact, that stricter gun laws, it's going to be now. It's not going to be a year from now, it's not going to be two years from now, the public will want to act now. That's at least what history tells us.

BROWN: Right. It's - well, it's fresh, right, right after you want to wait for the next one, because there will be a next one inevitably. Lastly, is there any correlation between more guns being out there and gun deaths?

ENTEN: There is. Sometimes there are some correlations that you're not quite sure about. This one seems pretty clear and I broke it down by the states that Trump won in 2020 and the states that Biden won. And we know that in the Trump states, there are more households with guns and there are more gun deaths.

Now, that doesn't mean all of them happen there, right? There are plenty of gun deaths, unfortunately, it happened to Biden states as well. This is a blue state and a red state problem. But what we know is that there are more deaths, there are more gun deaths in the households than the states that have more households with guns.

But here's the thing I'll point out to you, Pam, we talk about these massacres, but the fact of the matter is that most gun deaths do not occur in mass shootings. They occur on the streets. They occur on urban areas and more than that they're not necessarily murder, so look at gun deaths in 2020. In fact, most of the gun deaths that occur in this country are unfortunately suicides. They're suicides. They're not murders.

And so when people have easy access to guns, they're more likely to kill themselves by a gun. And so to me, when you look at these numbers, what they essentially say to me is that if you have more guns, there are going to be more massacre, there's going to be more deaths by guns and it's not just about essentially people going out in mass shootings. It's really about people doing it in communities and then unfortunately, killing themselves, that's - that is what the numbers say, Pam.

BROWN: The numbers say a lot. Thank you for helping us better understand this important issue with running those numbers. Harry Enten thank you. And be sure to check out Harry's podcast by the way, margins of error. You can find it on your favorite podcast app or at cnn.com/audio.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM, still ahead chaos before kickoff. What sparked clashes between police and soccer fans outside today's Champions League final. Our reporter Alex Thomas is on the scene when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:49:13]

BROWN: Tonight, chaos before kickoff at one of soccer's premier championships. Riot police clashed with crowds of fans outside the stadium near Paris, thousands of people apparently had bought fake tickets to the final between Real Madrid and Liverpool. Listen to one Liverpool fan describe the line outside the stadium.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It got really, really tight. People started panicking. There were kids, there were old people, it was crashing. There was no information. I speak French, I spoke to the police. I said you need to get information to these people to say stop pushing and stop (inaudible) the game is going to be delayed. There was no interest.

Like they understood they were trying their best but they had no information. They had no ability to communicate with the ground. When we finally got in, which was through barriers. It was absolutely ram, we then have spent the next hour and a half, two hours with no information.

[18:50:06]

All the games being closed. We try to keep further out of the gates. Nobody still has a clue what's going on. I've been tear gassed once.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: CNN's World Sports Alex Thomas was at the game just north of Paris and joins us now by phone. So Alex, what happened?

ALEX THOMAS, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Really hard to determine exactly what happened, Pamela. There's certainly a blame game that started between Liverpool Football Club, the UEFA who are the governing body for football and soccer in Europe and also local French authorities tasked with keeping the venue secure.

This comes less than a year after the European Championship final at Wembley Stadium in London was marred by crowd trouble. And now the Champions League final, the pinnacle for the European club season with a global TV audience bigger than the Super Bowl that suffered similar scenes and it's clear that some fans were trying to get into the game, because it was just between two huge teams in Liverpool and Real Madrid and was potentially very exciting.

And that's - the security and stewarding that was put in place couldn't handle the vast amount of crowd arriving. And I have to say from my experience, most of the fans were getting there two hours or more in advance. So really with plenty of time, it wasn't last minute arrivals, but the system could not cope. There's been a massive failure somewhere and I think the true details will only emerge in the days and weeks ahead.

What I would say is that Liverpool Football Club, of course, are synonymous with the Hillsborough disaster around 30 years ago when almost a hundred people died in a massive crush at a stadium led to a massive establishment cover up and many supporters spent decades trying to clear their name and find out why their relatives who went to go to a soccer match never came home alive.

So to happen to this same club, again, is truly scary for those involved and maybe even affected how the players performed on the pitch with Real Madrid winning the European club champions for a record extending 14th time, Pamela,

BROWN: What did the clubs and authorities said?

THOMAS: We've had statements from various authorities, the French police saying that it was - they were just trying to control the area because ticketless fans are trying to get in. UEFA saying they are concerned by the scenes. But again naming Liverpool fans as the culprits even though we've seen video evidence that local people were trying to get in and some Real Madrid fans vaulted the fences as well. And Liverpool Football Club saying they're absolutely disgusted by it and they're demanding an urgent investigation.

BROWN: Will either team be penalized because of this.

THOMAS: I don't think so. There may be fines dished out and possibly some penalties in terms of you can play games behind closed doors but without spectators, so UEFA could go that far. But certainly football needs to get to the bottom of it. There's been a spate of pitch invasions in recent weeks and it's just getting not safe for supporters, for players, for staff, officials and the media, many journalists I know suffering from the tear gas that was deployed, and it seems like very heavy handed treatments at times.

BROWN: Yes, not what you would expect when you go to a game like that. All right. Alex Thomas ...

THOMAS: It should have been a happy day.

BROWN: ... yes, it should have been a happy day and it was far from that. Alex Thomas. Thank you.

Well, there is growing outrage tonight about how police responded to the school shooting in Uvalde, Texas. This is a live picture from the memorial, what parents are telling us ahead on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:58:17]

BROWN: From her iconic cooking show that changed the food landscape in America to her vocal optimism for women's rights. Julia Child was a revolutionary. Join us Monday as we recount the life of America's first celebrity chef and here's a preview of the new CNN film, Julia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIA CHILD: I'm going to try and flip this over, which is a rather daring thing to do. You just have to have the courage of your convictions, particularly if it's sort of a loose mass like this. Well, that didn't go very well.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If she made a mistake, she was not remotely rattled. JULIA CHILD: I didn't have the courage to do it, the way I should

have, but you can always pick it up and if you're alone in the kitchen, who is going to see.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She felt that making a mistake was a good thing. Just so that she could then show you how to fix it.

JULIA CHILD: Anytime that anything like this happens, you haven't lost anything because you can always turn this into something else. We'll pretend that this was supposed to be a baked potato dish.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Julia premieres Monday at 8 pm Eastern only on CNN. Well, the next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts right now.

Top of the hour now, I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Saturday. And we begin this hour with 21 empty chairs. A symbolic memorial today, Memorial Holiday today for the 19th elementary school students and two teachers murdered in the Uvalde Texas school shooting this week. Outrage is growing tonight over the timeline that will haunt Uvalde forever.

[19:00:02]