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Kids Begged 911 For Help As Officers Stood In The Hallway; Bitterly Divided Congress Looks For Breakthrough On Guns; Biden Travels To Uvalde Sunday To Meet With Victims' Families; Parents Of Victims In Uvalde Shooting Demand Accountability; Should Teachers Be Armed?; Ukraine Pleads For More Weapons Amid Battles In Donbas. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired May 28, 2022 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Uvalde forever. 80 minutes from the first call for help to the time a Border Patrol tactical team killed the gunman. More than 40 minutes of officers waiting in the hallway after having taking fire themselves before going in. All as children calling 911 begging for police to help while they were under merciless attack.

CNN's Adrienne Broaddus is in Uvalde tonight. Adrienne, what are you seeing there four days later?

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Pamela, I've been here since Tuesday and we can see that people have really wrapped their arms around Uvalde and its community. If you take a look, you can see folks are here to pay their respects at the memorial. Some people drove hours to visit this memorial and line is long. What you can't physically see, it's 98 degrees here but it feels hotter due to the humidity.

I've seen long lines before when people wait for hours to get concert tickets or to receive free food or something free. But that is not the case here. People are waiting in line quietly to pay their respects. They are here because they want to show love and support.

We've have also heard from parents, including parents of some of the children who were killed on that Tuesday. The shooting is still sinking in, but the parent we spoke to are upset and stunned.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER GAITAN, DAUGHTER IN ROBB ELEMENTARY DURING SHOOTING: They were not concerned about the real trauma that was happening inside. Honestly I think they did, they waited too long, too long, because I was out here. I was out here and I mean, I'm not the only parent that witnessed it. It's sad that a lot of parents witnessed it. And then to see that they're saying that it was, you know, they had gotten here quick and handled business. That's not -- that is not the way that happened.

ALFRED GARZA, DAUGHTER AMERIE JO WAS KILLED: Had they gotten in there sooner and somebody would have taken immediate action, we might have more of those children here today, including my daughter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROADDUS: You know, the s shock came when parents learned more than an hour after that initial 911 call came in from the panicked teacher passed and the time when the shooter was killed. So they are dealing with a tremendous amount of grief and anger -- Pamela.

BROWN: And just unresolved questions that they may never get answers to, Adrienne, if officials have gone in earlier, could their child have been saved. It's just too much to take on. You also spoke to one of those student who survived. Tell us about that.

BROADDUS: Yes, that was so 10-year-old Jayden Perez. He doesn't remember much about the day but he remembers the moment the shooting started. He saw his teacher run to the door. She locked it and she told all of them to hide and be quiet. So his friends hid under the table and he hid near the backpacks. But he said hiding didn't stop his teacher or his friend from getting hurt. Here's more of our conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROADDUS: Do you ever want to go back to school?

JAYDEN PEREZ, SHOOTING SURVIVOR: I don't want to, no, because I don't want anything to do with another shooting and me in the school.

BROADDUS: You scared it might happen again?

PEREZ: Yes. And I know it might happen again. Probably.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROADDUS: And Jayden told me he was friends with almost of the children who died on Tuesday. Behind us you see a family. And this woman is grieving. She is related to someone who already passed. I'm trying to get a better look at the shirt because there was a family here earlier and they were wearing shirts similar. But their loved one was from a neighboring district who died due to gun violence and that family told me what was happening here was bringing up raw emotions for them.

But in regards to Jayden, he did mention he's going to miss all of his friends. He said he's doing better but he's sad knowing his friends died. And I can't help but to underscore these kids were preparing for summer vacation. Thursday was supposed to be the last day of the school year.

And at the end of the school year when you say good-bye, you say, hey, I'm going to miss you. I'll see you next year. But that is not the case here in Uvalde. They'll never see their friends again. Not the 19 that died or their two teachers -- Pam.

BROWN: Yes. This is supposed to be the exciting time, right, where you get ready, gear up for the summer, say good-bye to your friends and now they had to say good-by permanently to their friends.

I just keep thinking about that little boy saying it probably will happen again. I know it will happen again. And, you know, you can't look at him in the eyes and tell him it won't, given the rate of mass shootings at schools in this country and it is just so devastating.

[19:05:03]

And I know parents across America talking to their kids feel that same way. They want to be able to say it's not going to happen again. You have nothing to worry about. But that's not the reality we live in in America.

Adrienne Broaddus, in Uvalde, thank you.

Vice President Kamala Harris is demanding action after spending the day at another mass shooting scene in Buffalo. She and the second gentleman lay flowers at the site of the racist killings at a supermarket only two weeks ago. And she spoke at the final funeral of an 86-year-old woman who was the oldest of the 10 people killed. As she left Buffalo Harris turned from grief to what may be the next policy fight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We know what works on this. It includes let's have an assault weapons ban. You know what an assault weapon is? You know how an assault weapon was designed? It was designed for a specific purpose, to kill a lot of human beings quickly. An assault weapon is a weapon of war with no place, no place in a civil society.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: But short of an executive order by the president, nothing happens without Congress. Yet on Capitol Hill, CNN's Daniella Diaz tells us there might be some movement from both parties -- Daniella.

DANIELLA DIAZ, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, Senator Joe Manchin, a moderate Democrat from West Virginia who's participating in these bipartisan talks put it in his own words. He described this meeting on Thursday with reporters, as quote, "very encouraging," and he noted that the atmosphere, quote, "feels different" than it did in the days after the Sandy Hook elementary shooting, also incredibly horrific shooting. He said that it's encouraging to see and show people that there could be a path forward.

Now this comes after of course Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, the top Republican in the Senate, gave his blessing to Senator John Cornyn, the senior senator from Texas where this horrific shooting took place in Uvalde to start negotiating with Democrats on some sort of legislation that could help combat any sort of horrific shooting in the future.

This is incredibly remarkable and notable, Pamela. I really want to emphasize that Republicans, at least a handful of them, are now meeting Democrats at the negotiating table to try to figure something out.

Of course Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer took to the floor earlier this week in the Senate and he emphasized that he wanted to give time to Democrats to try to negotiate something with Republicans so that they could pass some sort of gun safety reform because of that 60-vote threshold in the Senate that is needed to break the filibuster to advance any legislation, and that is the problem right now is that Democrats, all 50 Democrats even if they were to sign onto any legislation to pass gun safety bills, they need at least 10 Republicans to sign on and right now that is just not the case.

There are not even 10 Republicans negotiating with the Democrats right now. And I really emphasize this contrast in the Republican Party between these handful of members that are participating in these bipartisan talks. Senator John Cornyn of Texas compared to Senator Ted Cruz of Texas who actually spoke at the NRA convention yesterday and blamed anything but guns for what happened in Uvalde. Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Ultimately, as we all know, what stops armed bad guys is armed good guys. We must not react to evil and tragedy by abandoning the Constitution or infringing on rights of our law-abiding citizens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAZ: You know, his words really summed up the way some Republicans, if not probably the majority of Republicans, are feeling about gun safety reform at this time. They do not think that gun safety reform is the answer to try to fix horrific mass shootings from taking place in the future despite it being a trend in the United States. And so it's going to be a very uphill climb for Democrats to be able to get 10 Republicans on board. But that's not going to stop them from continuing to try to negotiate with Republicans -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right, thanks so much, Daniella Diaz.

Well, President Biden will be in Uvalde tomorrow in a role that is becoming far too familiar, consoling yet another American city after yet another American mass shooting. But today he refused to give up hope for an end to these slaughters. The question is how.

Arlette Saenz is at the White House for us -- Arlette.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, President Biden is preparing to spend several hours on the ground in Uvalde, Texas, tomorrow as he speaks to offer some type of comfort to those families dealing with the gut-wrenching losses of those two teachers and 19 young children.

[19:10:08]

The president and first lady will travel down there together from their home in Wilmington, Delaware, and they are set to meet with local community leaders, religious leaders and most importantly those families who have lost their loved ones. The president has time and time again gone into these types of communities to grieve with them in the moment after their losses.

And the president ahead of that visit spoke at a commencement ceremony at the University of Delaware where he talked about his upcoming visit and also issued a call to action for the next generation

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Tomorrow, I'll be heading to Uvalde, Texas, to be with each of those families. And as I speak, those parents are literally preparing to bury their children. In the United States of America to bury their children. It's too much violence. Too much fear. Too much grief.

And while this can feel like a very dark moment in America, I'm optimistic. I've never been more optimistic in my entire life. Here's why. I mean this my word as a Biden. I mean it. Because of you, this generation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Of course one of the big questions facing this White House now is what can be done to prevent tragedies like this from happening again. The president has said he wants to see stricter gun control but says that there's not much more he can do on the executive level. So they have pushed Congress to try to pass additional gun safety measures time and time again.

Now there is that bipartisan group of lawmakers who are holding early discussions about possible new gun safety laws but it's unclear what kind of traction that might get. But there are some who believe that the president can do more in this moment. But for tomorrow, the main focus will be offering solace. Some type of comfort to those grieving families as the president goes first hand to see and experience what they are dealing with in this moment in the wake of that tragic, tragic shooting -- Pamela.

BROWN: Our thanks to Arlette.

Well, you're in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Saturday. And tonight we're getting our first look at the Texas law enforcement manual which says the priority is always to move in and confront the attacker. So why didn't that happen in Uvalde? And will anyone be held accountable?

CNN legal analyst and former prosecutor Loni Coombs joins us next with her expert perspective. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:16:57]

BROWN: After a devastating school shooting in Uvalde, Texas, on Tuesday that left 21 dead and 17 injured, officials are scrambling to answer that crucial question. How could this happen? On Thursday, state authorities admitted that the order to delay the entry to the classroom where the shooter was barricaded was a mistake. And now questions are being raised about the accountability of law enforcement after such a horrific tragedy.

CNN has obtained the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement training manual which contains guidelines on active shooter situations. And the book makes it clear that an officer's first priority is to move in and confront the attacker. Then police must work to stop the killing, to stop the dying and finally rescue the injured.

The so-called priority of life skill provided in the document backs this up. Innocent civilians come first, then first responders and then finally offenders. Law enforcement officers in Texas are also supposed to be trained on these guideline in this document.

CNN legal analyst and former L.A. County prosecutor Loni Coombs joins me now.

First, Loni, is there any accountability from a legal perspective? What is the significance of these guidelines?

LONI COOMBS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So these guidelines, Pam, outline I think what we all expect from our law enforcement. Right? We see the facts unfold in this case and we hear that there are 19 officers in that school building who waited for over an hour to breach the door and go in. We're saying, wait a minute. These police officers failed us. They are supposed to protect us from harm, from violence.

However, the United States Supreme Court has ruled otherwise. They have ruled that the police officers do not have a constitutional duty to protect us from harm. So we can call 911 and tell the police there's someone being hurt, there's someone being killed. If the police do not go and stop that violence and someone is harmed or killed, they are not liable for that harm. So we have that.

We also have qualified immunity in Texas as within most states where police officers are protected from civil lawsuits for the actions and decisions they make during the course of their work. Of course if the behavior rises to the level of breaking the law, they might be sued.

However, in Texas, there's another level of protection saying OK, even if their behavior breaks the law, you also have to prove that they codified that behavior in a written policy and essentially in this case that the Uvalde school police believe, and it's their policy, that you don't go in and save children from an active shooter for over an hour.

Well, we know that's not true, right, based on the outlines that you just discussed from their training manual. We know that they are supposed to go in, stop the killing, stop the dying and evacuate the injured. Three things that those officers reportedly in the school chose not to do for over an hour, within their discretion.

BROWN: So is there any other way then that the police can be sued by the victims of the massacre? COOMBS: So that's a very good question. It's actually being tested out

in Florida as we speak. And Pam, how sad is it that we actually have so many of these shootings that we have other cases that we can look to for precedent? In the Parkland shooting if you'll recall in Florida in 2018, there was a school resource officer who never went into the school.

[19:20:06]

He stayed out in the parking lot. The state prosecutor there did something novel. It's never been done before. He has sued him criminally for negligence and child neglect saying because he was the school officer he had this special relationship with the children, almost making him like a guardian over there. He was supposed to protect them and that his actions actually enhanced the risk to them.

Because of that, they are arguing that he has criminal accountability. Now we don't know what's going to happen in that case yet but if I was the Texas prosecutor, I'd be watching that very closely because we know that the incident commander in Uvalde is actually the police chief of the Uvalde School District, meaning that he is the person who is responsible for protecting those children. That is his sole task.

And as such, he could be argued to be in that guardian position and his decision to not go in and save those kids may have enhanced the risk to them. So there might be criminal liability depending on what happens with these cases. But truthfully, Pam, we don't have laws right now that address this situation of these mass shooters. And we might be at a point where there are so many of these school shootings, we need to put a law on the books to say what are we going to hold our police officers responsible for.

BROWN: Sadly, there have already been so many school shootings. The list is way too long. You know, and you just think about the families and their desire for accountability. How -- you know, how can we get justice from this? And of course ultimately this was the gunman who did this. Right? That is the biggest problem here. There was an 18- year-old who walked in, bought two AR-15s and went in and shot up a classroom full of innocent children and teachers.

So that is the ultimate bottom line problem here. But also now we've learned the officers were in hallway, right, for more than an hour. And that command was coming from the incident commander, the chief of police there in Uvalde, who made the decision to not confront the shooter for an hour.

What about him in terms of accountability? What could be done? I mean, you know, there are the legal steps you just mentioned but anything else?

COOMBS: So it depends on how this criminal case goes in Florida. We might be able to have criminal accountability. But another important thing that goes on in these cases are these independent investigations. We know right now that there are some going on in Uvalde. Sometimes out of these investigations, there are facts that are revealed that allow a lawsuit to be filed on these very specific grounds.

For example, in Parkland, it came out that there was a tip sent into the FBI tip line a month before shooting and the FBI said, don't worry, we'll take care of it, and then did nothing. That allowed the parents to sue the Department of Justice for not doing anything and they just settle that case for $127 million out of court.

So what happens many times is some facts may come up and these investigations are important because it may help the police officers and it may hurt them. And if there's facts that allow that lawsuit to be filed, many times the police department or the school district might not want to go to court and test it so they end up settling out of court for these large monetary damages, and that's a lot of times how these victims and families end up being compensated in these cases.

BROWN: All right. And we will find out whether the facts come to bear in this story. You know, we only still have some of the picture. There's still a lot more to learn so we shall find out in the future.

Loni, thank you so much.

COOMBS: Thank you.

BROWN: And criticism of the officers' decision also calls into question whether a so-called good guy with a gun really keeps kids safe. So are armed teachers a better solution? I'll speak to two leaders in education on opposite sides of this debate, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:28:15]

BROWN: The tragedy and outrage in Uvalde, Texas, have parents, school workers, and government officials all confronting tough questions. The gunman was able to murder children for up to an hour while police waited outside.

So how do we keep our kids safe. Do we arm our teachers or is that just inviting more risk?

For today's debate, we brought in the experts. Joining me now are Craig Bessent, he is the assistant superintendent for the Wiley Independent School District in Texas, and Randi Weingarten, she is the president of the American Federation of Teachers.

Thank you both for coming on for this important discussion. I want to start with you, Randi. Why do you think arming teachers is a bad idea?

RANDI WEINGARTEN, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN FEDERATION OF TEACHERS: First off, teachers don't want to be armed. They actually want to be trusted with choosing, you know, books for kids and curriculum for kids. They don't want to become armed security guards. And there's any number of reasons why they would tell you that.

But the other piece is this. Schools have to be safe and welcoming circumstances for kids. And so part of what we need to do is get guns away from young adults, to get AR-15s away. We have to not allow body armor to, you know, to be bought and sold so easily.

So what teachers would tell you and they have for -- you know, my phone has rung and my texts have rung off the hook. They want to make sure that they can teach kids in a safe and welcoming situation, and get guns out of these circumstances, not have things more and more and more hardened.

[19:30:02]

BROWN: So Craig, now to you? What do you think? How do more guns in schools keep our kids safer? You have a different view from Randi.

CRAIG BESSENT, ASSISTANT SUPERINTENDENT, WYLIE INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT: Well, so for clarification, the House Bill 1009 Protection of Texas Children Act passed after Sandy Hook call for voluntary decision making on local school districts that had a need, maybe no law enforcement in their community, or low numbers of law enforcement that we're seeing now to be able to have some kind of protection plan on different campuses, et cetera.

And I think that where the confusion comes is it allowed employees, not just teachers, and as a School Marshal, it is a little different than most programs out there. It is a stringent program with a big vetting process. Most of the School Marshals in the state of Texas are nonteaching personnel, administrative support personnel. You know, we have five and a half million students, over 400,000 teachers in Texas. And so about 35 to 40 percent of our staff and support personnel.

We found through this program that we have support personnel and are working in our school districts that have backgrounds in law enforcement and military experience that that we've kind of worked out. So we've worked through this issue for several years, and you know, it's just an option, it is a voluntary option for those districts, you know, that fill that need for them, and it's been our -- we don't ever make or would never want a teacher, you don't have to do something that they don't want to do.

And I will tell you, the School Marshal Program because they are trained in a police academy. It is kind of a rigorous training. It's really not conducive to most of our teaching positions. So it's usually an outside field position.

BROWN: But what do you say to Randi's point that more guns in schools, whether it be from teachers or others, as you said, mostly not, you know, administrators have been signing up. And by the way, I think it's fewer than 300 educators, the number we last had, what do you say to that?

Her argument that that's not even what teachers want, even if it is not the teacher doing it, administrators, others in the school, be armed for these school shootings is not the answer.

BESSENT: Well, so there's other programs out there that are not sanctioned by the State of Texas and not last, is by the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement that teachers are armed. We're not familiar -- we don't participate in those programs. But what we know that when we have evil comes into our school building in response by outside law enforcement as fast as they can get there is generally not fast enough. We know that three to five minutes usually those events are over with.

In Virginia Tech, it averaged seven murders per minute, and we know that Don Hutchstrong (ph) and Mary Chalok (ph), Aaron Feis at Parkland shielded and tried to stop a gunman without any kind of force to stop that and try to end that killing and weren't able to do that.

So we think someone highly trained, that is the School Marshal Program at Texas, those actual School Marshals are a form of a licensed law enforcement. So they're highly trained, like police officers. So they're not just an ordinary teacher in that position.

BROWN: Go ahead, Randi.

WEINGARTEN: May I interject, which is that, look, these -- the folks in Parkland, they are my members. The folks in Sandy Hook, they're my members. Some of them were with me in Houston. Look what's happening right now in these last two mass murders in this last 10 days, an 18- year-old, body armor, AR-15 that can shoot hundreds of bullets in a minute.

So what we're talking about, we need to find a way to get guns out -- these kinds of guns out of the hands of people. You can't harden a school enough against this kind of madness. And so we need to actually problem solve and find the right solutions so schools can be welcoming and safe. That's the problem here.

And in fact, Uvalde had a lot of hardening done. Their schools, 90 percent of schools had hardening done since Parkland. But look what happened with that door? He couldn't get through one door, and so I think we just have to find ways, other solutions. It can't just keep on being more guns.

BROWN: Well, then let me just ask you -- go ahead, Craig.

BESSENT: Can I say, I totally agree. And Texas has been very progressive, especially since 2018. We've had quite a bit of legislation passed in our 86th and 87th legislative session that addressed those kinds of issues and we have a lot of issues -- a society issue.

[19:35:07]

BESSENT: I've been doing this for almost 44 years. I've been administrator for over 30, so I've dealt with a lot of troubled students, and parents too. And our society has changed. You know, we have students that have no value of life, get on a pathway to violence. I've been trained by Secret Service, FBI on behavior threat assessment. We have those now. We work -- no telling how many cases that we have stopped now, but evidently, you know, we had a disassociated 18-year-old that got through the cracks, and didn't get help. So we -- WEINGARTEN: Right. We have the Red Flag Laws.

BESSENT: Yes, I agree.

WEINGARTEN: I think the Red Flag Laws is a really good idea. So I bet we would agree with that. And I'm sure you've done an amazing job in terms of the work that you've done.

I'm just saying we need to find, we need to wrap services around schools. We need to have the Red Flag Laws. If you can't get a handgun until 21, how could you get an AR-15 at 18? So there background checks. I bet there's a bunch of things, Craig, that if you and I were sitting down, we could probably agree on.

BROWN: You are sitting down.

WEINGARTEN: And we need to get that. Yes.

BROWN: I want to hear what you -- and you know, that's what you are having this conversation.

WEINGARTEN: And so I am telling you, you hear it.

BESSENT: So, we could talk all day about mental health, we have more mental health in our school right now that we -- in our schools in Texas than we've ever had. And we've determined you know, we have issues as young as five years old, we have a licensed school special psychologist in our campuses, professional counselors, licensed professional counselors, and we're working as hard as we can to try to move, you know, those children around and get them on the right path, but it's not an easy -- it's a struggle when we have social media, and we have COVID, and we have other issues, now.

We're seeing those educators --

WEINGARTEN: I completely agree with you.

BESSENT: You know, and it's not going to be an easy fix. It took us some years to get here and I think we're going to have to change the way our kids are thinking, how they are able to react, empathy, how they treat other people, and how they view life and the value of life and our suicide rates are at an all-time high as, you know, ages 14 to 18. And those are issues that we address, our teachers are getting training in those kinds of issues that we've never had before.

WEINGARTEN: Right, completely agree with you. And, you know, we've been taken on the social media issues, too. And, you know, we need to -- so you're absolutely right. There are a lot of things we have to do about empathy, about love, about taking on the social media issues about -- you know, this is part of the reason I think that it was right, that, you know, Biden had put so much money in from the American Rescue Plan that Texas has now taken advantage of.

But we need to actually do the kind of wrapping around of services and find ways that we lift students up and do the things that we have to do to get more guns off the street. Hate and guns are a toxic combination.

BESSENT: Well, after the several hundred threat assessments, you know, guns are not our only threat. And so, so far, you know, fire and vehicles and explosives, and we deal with those quite a bit. You don't hear too much media about there, but anyway to cause destruction and death is kind of in the minds of some of our youth and so that is --

BROWN: And that is very true.

BESSENT: So we are working on that very hard, you know.

BROWN: Gun violence, though, it is the number one killer among kids. I mean, it has become the number one killer among kids.

Well, I think you too, should trade numbers and carry this conversation offline and maybe you can come up with some of these solutions to help prevent future mass shootings at schools because no one wants that and we can all agree on that.

Appreciate you both for taking the time on this Memorial Day holiday. Thank you.

BESSENT: Thank you.

BROWN: Greg and Randi, appreciate it.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:43:47]

BROWN: Starting now to the latest on Russia's war in Ukraine, where the focus is on the eastern part of the country as Russian troops advance in the Donbas region.

Ukraine says the weapons it's already received from the U.S. and other Western nations have been a great help, but they still need more.

CNN's Melissa Bell has the latest.

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pam, more intense fighting in Eastern Ukraine and in particular on that front line where Russian forces have been pressing their advantage over the last couple of days, still Ukrainian forces saying that that key town of Severodonetsk has not yet fallen.

But you understand that Kyiv is worried, there is this appeal for fresh weapons from the United States in particular, of course, the weaponry that it has received so far from NATO has been substantial in helping it push back that Russian offensive. Remember, of course those Javelin anti-tank systems, the stinger anti-aircraft systems, but also what we saw in action for the first time here on the ground last week. Those switchblade targeted drones.

They have made a difference so far, but speaking to Ukrainian Military Intelligence, I asked whether it would be enough and it was explained to me that look, Ukraine is a country of some 40 million people. We are have opposite us a country of 140 million. What they want now from the United States and other NATO allies is more weaponry that they say is what they need to help them win this fight -- Pam.

[19:45:11]

BROWN: All right, thanks so much, Melissa Bell.

Well, two people are dead another three missing after a boating accident just outside of Savannah. Witnesses say to center console boats wrecked while heading in opposite directions.

Four other passengers were in the crash, but only suffered minor injuries and they're receiving treatment at a local hospital. A search for those missing boaters is still ongoing.

Well, you are in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Saturday.

There is an effort to single out mental health for the massacre in Uvalde, Texas. Is it really that simple?

Coming up, we'll call out "For the Record." Take a look at lawmakers who talk the talk about addressing mental health, yet don't necessarily fund the fix.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:50:15]

BROWN: Well, not long after a young gunman murdered 21 people inside a Texas Elementary School, Governor Greg Abbott pinned blame for the massacre on mental health.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R-TX): I asked the Sheriff and others an open-ended question and got the same answer from the Sheriff, as well as from the Mayor of Uvalde. The question was: What is the problem here? And they were straightforward and emphatic. They said, we have a mental -- we have a problem with mental health illness in this community, and then they elaborated on the magnitude of the mental health challenges that they're facing in the community and the need for more mental health support in this region.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Abbott said, as a state and as a society, we need to do a better job with mental health. But that raises the question, why did he cut almost $211 million from the budget of the department that handles mental health in his state? The Texas Health and Human Services Commission lost more than $117 million from the 2021 fiscal year budget and more than $93 million from the 2022 fiscal year budget, also that Texas could pay more to support the National Guard and other operations at the Mexican border. Now the Governor's Office said in a statement to CNN that Abbott has

actually worked to fund and expand mental health programs saying, quote: "Throughout his time in office, the Governor has worked closely with the Texas Legislature to appropriate over $25 billion to address mental and behavioral health issues and passed a variety of bills expanding access to mental health services, including creating a match grant program to assist local communities to address any unmet local mental health needs."

Adding: "There's always more we can do to help address the mental health needs of Texans and we look forward to continuing to work with the legislature to do so."

But according to the Mental Health America, a nonprofit community group helping people living with mental illness, Texas ranks last when it comes to access to mental health care. The ranking looks at things like access to treatment, quality, cost, and access to insurance.

In facts, in just the past eight years, Texas has had hundreds of mass shootings, three of them took the lives of at least 20 people and we've covered a lot of them here on CNN.

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FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Multiple people have been shot at a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, that is east of San Antonio.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: This just coming in to CNN, a spokesperson for the El Paso Mayor's Office telling us that multiple people have been killed, and at least one suspect in custody.

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BROWN: But what is Texas doing to stop these shootings? Loosening gun laws, it looks like if you look at the record right here in the last 10 years, state laws there have gone into effect to allow concealed weapons on college campuses to carry guns in places of worship and carry guns without a permit.

Now Abbott says more gun control laws would not stop the recent shootings.

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ABBOTT: If everyone wants to seize upon a particular strategy, and just assume well, well, that's the golden strategy right there. Look at what happened in the Santa Fe shooting? A background check had no relevancy whatsoever, because the killer took the gun from his parent.

Look at what happened in the shooting at Sutherland Springs. There was a background check that was done. It was done in a flawed way that allowed the killer to get a gun.

And so anyone who suggests, well maybe we should focus on background checks as opposed to mental health, I suggest to you, it is mistaken.

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BROWN: But that's the thing. It's not one or the other. This is not just about one golden strategy. That idea is a fallacy. It's not all or nothing and it is about looking at all the different components that lead to these shootings, not just one part and figuring out ways to cut down, not eliminate future shootings.

The bottom line is any tunings in America is not going to happen overnight. So if this country could take more sensible steps to at least save some lives in the future, even if those steps can't prevent every shooting, is it not worth it?

And if this is only about mental health, as Abbott says, why do so many more shootings happen in the U.S. compared to other countries? CNNs Chris Cillizza made an interesting observation this week. According to a CNN review from 2018, there were at least 288 school shootings in the U.S. in the previous nine years, that is 57 times more than other G-7 countries combined.

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BROWN: And a 2017 study by Criminal Justice Professor Adam Lankford from the University of Alabama found the U.S. accounted for 31 percent of mass shootings globally between 1966 and 2012, despite having only five percent of the world's population.

There is mental illness in every country, but only the United States sees these massacres over and over, and by the way, the vast majority of people with mental illness do not commit murder.

This will keep happening these mass shootings will keep happening over and over until more is done to address it on every front.

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