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Will Congress Pass Any Gun Control Measures;? Uvalde Massacre Investigation Continues; President Biden Delivers Memorial Day Address. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired May 30, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And so, to every Gold Star family, to every survivor and family member and caregiver, this grateful nation owes you, as well as the person you lost.

[13:00:10]

And we can never repay the sacrifice, but we will never stop trying. We will never fail in our duty to remember, with their lives, they bought our freedom. And so, with our lives, we must always live up to their example, putting service before self, caring for our neighbors as ourselves, working fervently to bring our union just that much closer to fulfilling the founding creed, as the secretary said, that all women and men are created equal.

I have often said that, as a nation, we have many obligations. But the only one that is truly sacred, the only truly sacred obligation we have is to prepare and equip those women and men we send into harm's way and care for them and their families when they return home and when they don't.

This is an obligation that unites Americans. It brings us together to make sure the women and men who are willing to lay down their lives for us get the very best from us in return.

I want to acknowledge that we're making progress in key areas, like comprehensive bipartisan legislation that is advancing in Congress that would deliver health care services and benefits to veterans and the survivors impacted by toxic exposures.

We don't know how many Americans and service members may have died because of what they were exposed to on the battlefield, toxic smoke from burn pits near where they were based, burn pits that incinerated the wastes of war, medical and hazardous material, jet fuel and so much more.

We have a duty to do right by them. And I'm determined to make sure that our brave service families and members that served alongside them do not wait decades for the care and benefits that they deserve. And that's why -- that's why we're working so hard to find out what the facts are. But we can still save lives. We have to act.

All of us also have a duty to renew our commitment to the foundational values of our nation in their honor, for those are the values that have inspired generation after generation to service. On Friday, I spoke at a graduation and commissioning of -- ceremony of

the U.S. Naval Academy. I had an opportunity to do it before as well. It was a remarkable experience again, an honor.

Looking out at those young men and women, newly commissioned commissioners, embarking on a life of service, they hold before them the example of the heroes who have gone before them, many of your family members, heroes who have answered duty's call at Lexington and Concord, Antietam and Gettysburg, Belleau Woods, Battle of the Bulge, the Korean and Vietnam and Afghanistan and Iraq and so many other places around the world, so many of whom never returned home, including the legacy of all those held prisoners of war or who are still missing in action.

To be here today, soon after that joyful celebration at the academy is a bracing reminder of all that we ask of our service members and their families, for it's on the strong shoulders and noble spirits of our service members that our freedom is built, our democracy sustained.

And, in this moment, when a war of aggression is once more being waged by Russia to snuff out the freedom, the democracy, the very culture and identity of neighboring Ukraine, we so -- we see so clearly all that's at stake.

Freedom has never been free. Democracy has always required champions. Today, in the perennial struggle for democracy and freedom, Ukraine and its people are on the front lines fighting to save their nation.

But their fight is part of a larger fight that unites all people. It's a fight that so many of the patriots whose eternal rest is here in these hallowed grounds were part of, a battle between democracy and autocracy, between liberty and repression, between appetites and ambition of a few who forever seek to dominate the lives and liberties of many, a battle for essential democratic principles, the rule of law, free and fair elections, freedom to speak and write and to assemble, freedom to worship as one chooses, freedom of the press.

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Principles that are essential for a free society. You have heard this a lot. You have heard this a lot over the years. But we're now realizing how real it is around the world in so many countries as I speak.

These are the foundations of our great experiment. But they are never guaranteed, even here in America. Every generation has to defeat democracy's mortal foes. And into every generation heroes are born, willing to shed their blood for that which they and we hold dear.

Ladies and gentlemen, today, we remember and we reaffirm, freedom is worth the sacrifice. Democracy is not perfect. It's never been good -- perfect. But it's worth fighting for, if necessary, worth dying for.

It's more than just our form of government. It is part of the very soul of America, the soul of America. Our democracy is our greatest gift as a nation, made holy by those we have lost along the way. Our democracy is how we undertake the constant work of perfecting the union.

And we have not perfected it, but we have never stopped trying, of opening the doors wider of opportunity and prosper by and justice for people everywhere. Our democracy is how we endure through every challenge, overcome every obstacle we have faced through the last 246 years of self-government, and how we have come back stronger than before.

We must never walk away from that. We must never betray the lives laid down to make our nation a beacon to the world, a citadel of liberty and justice for everybody. This is the mission of our time.

Our memorial to them must not be just a day where we pause and pray. It must be a daily commitment to act, to come together, to be worthy of the price that was paid.

May God bring comfort to all those who mourn. May God bless our Gold Star families and survivors. And, please, God, protect our troops.

God bless America and all of you. Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Hello. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Boris Sanchez, in for Ana Cabrera.

That was President Biden honoring the nation's fallen heroes at Arlington National Cemetery on Memorial Day, the president saying it is a sacred ritual that he's participating in and speaking from personal experience about the loss of his son Beau, remembering his military service and sending a message to Gold Star families that the loss of their loved ones will never be forgotten, saying -- quote -- "We live in the light of the flame that they kept burning."

The president adding that freedom is worth the sacrifice, talking about democracy in the United States and its defense across the world, also adding that the war in Ukraine is an illustration of -- quote -- "all that's at stake."

Later today, the president and first lady are going to hold a tree planting ceremony at the White House with families of service members. We're going to keep track of all that the president is doing to honor those who made the ultimate sacrifice this Memorial Day. And, of course, we will bring it to you as it unfolds.

But, as the nation comes together to honor the fallen on Memorial Day, we begin this hour of NEWSROOM with a nation divided over how to stop gun violence.

The president is marking the holiday just one day after a trip to Uvalde, Texas, where he promised to take action on gun legislation in the wake of yet another mass shooting.

While we wait to see if Washington will act on that, it's the action or inaction of law enforcement responding to the scene at Robb Elementary School that has enraged the families of victims and the entire community.

New dispatch audio appears to reveal that law enforcement officials were told that kids were alive and in danger and calling 911, as officers, some 19 of them, waited outside the classroom before going after the gunman.

[13:10:11]

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: Advise, we do have a child on the line. Child is advising he in the room full of victims, full of victims at this moment.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Now, CNN has not been able to independently confirm that audio. It's also unclear who the source is and when exactly those words were said.

The Justice Department, though, is now reviewing the response to this shooting. And we're going to dig deeper on that in just a moment.

But, right now, we want to put the victims first.

Grief-stricken families are now beginning to hold the first funeral services today for two of the students that were murdered last week. A visitation is currently under way for 10-year-old Amerie Jo Garza, one of several kids trying to call police during the shooting.

And in just a few hours, there's going to be a service for 10-year-old Maite Yuleana Rodriguez, who dreamed of one day becoming a marine biologist.

We want to take you now to Uvalde, Texas, with CNN's Lucy Kafanov.

Lucy, tell us more about who these girls were.

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Boris, I'm standing at one of the two main memorials set up to honor the 21 lives that were so tragically and brutally taken that Tuesday, the memorial that has seen people streaming in and out here all through the weekend.

You were hearing how hot it was. It hasn't stopped the families and the community from coming here to pay their respects. But there are these two other memorials taking place, the visitation currently under way for Amerie Jo Garza, who was just two weeks past her 10th birthday when her stepfather dropped her off at school, not realizing it would be the last time he saw his little girl alive.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGEL GARZA, FATHER OF SHOOTING VICTIM: So I'm a med aide. So, when I arrived on the scene, they still had kids inside. They

started bringing the kids out. And I was aiding assistance. One little girl was just covered in blood head to toe. Like, I thought she was injured. I asked her what was wrong. And she says she was OK. He was hysterical, saying that they shot her best friend, that they killed her best friend, and she's not breathing, and she was trying to call the cops.

And I asked the little girl the name. And she told me. She said Amerie.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: That's how you learned?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAFANOV: And Amerie was looking out for her classmates, Boris.

She tried to call 911, tried to get help to save those in that classroom, help that, unfortunately, did not arrive in time.

Also, in just a few hours, we are expecting a service for 10-year-old Maite Yuleana Rodriguez. She dreamed of becoming a marine biologist, her mother posting on social media saying that Texas A&M University is actually going to be naming a marine biology scholarship in honor of her fallen daughter.

The mother, Ana Rodriguez, also posting on Facebook, and I want to read you a little bit of what she wrote.

She wrote: "The passing of my beautiful daughter has rocked me to my core, and I simply cannot wrap my head around what's happened. What I would like the world to know about Maite Yuleana Rodriguez is that her favorite color was green. She loved those lime green Converse so much that she drew a heart on the right one. She loved to call me mama. Her favorite meal was number 13 from Whataburger with a side of sliced jalapenos. She was sweet, charismatic, loving, caring, loyal, free, ambitious, funny, silly, goal-driven, and, best of all, my very best friend."

A lot of adjectives for these fallen ones, 19 little children, two teachers who also lost their lives protecting their little ones. And, again, this memorial will continue for the days to come as this community struggles to process the tragedy that took place here, a tragedy that perhaps could have been stopped, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Just heart-wrenching. Our hearts obviously go out to their families. They are mourning right now.

And many of them are also angry because they want accountability. Let's get to that now.

Lucy Kafanov, from Uvalde, Texas, thank you.

There's an investigation going on right now into the police response in Uvalde, including that damning new dispatch audio we played for you moments ago that captured what was happening outside the school during the shooting.

Let's bring in Paula Reid now. She has details on that and exactly what the Justice Department is planning to do next.

Paula, bring us up to speed.

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So, Boris, we have just learned that the Justice Department is expected to select someone to lead to this review in the coming days.

Now, traditionally, they have chosen people to lead these kinds of reviews that have experience on the ground, law enforcement experience, responding to mass casualty events.

[13:15:02]

Now, the Justice Department has conducted similar reviews to -- into the police response to the San Bernardino terrorist attack and the Pulse nightclub shooting.

And I looked at both of those reviews, Boris, and I think what we can expect here is that investigators, they're going to be on the ground in Texas. They're going to want to visit the crime scene, talk to witnesses, talk to victims, talk to first responders, gather any kind of audiovisual evidence that they can to try to put together an accurate picture of what exactly happened there.

And then they will do an analysis and try to distill some lessons learned, identify exactly what went wrong, and identify some best practices going forward. Now, it's important to note this is not a criminal investigation.

The Justice Department has many different functions. But, here, it's not a criminal investigation. Instead, this is sort of an after-action review to try to distill some lessons learned. And it's actually the city's mayor who requested this review in the wake of all the scrutiny that has faced law enforcement officials and Texas officials for how police responded to this incident.

Now, this may not be enough to satisfy those who are outraged and grieving about what happened. But it is a first step towards potential accountability and hopefully preventing things like this in the future.

SANCHEZ: And, on that note, Paula Reid, we want to talk about the responsibility now of preventing another atrocity like this from happening again, specifically for lawmakers on Capitol Hill.

One day after meeting with families who lost their children and loved ones in last week's shooting, President Biden says he thinks there's a chance that Republicans in Washington will finally join Democrats to reform gun legislation.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BIDEN: I think there's realization on the part of rational Republicans -- and I consider McConnell a rational Republican. I think Cornyn is as well.

I think there's a recognition on their part that the -- we can't continue like this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Let's go to Capitol Hill now and CNN's Lauren Fox.

Lauren, there is a bipartisan group of senators that is engaged in talks on this issue. Where do those discussions stand right now?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Boris, they're really in their infancy at this point.

Lawmakers departing Washington last week for a weeklong recess. I am told that these negotiations aren't going to stop just because members are not in this building today. Instead, what you can expect is a flurry of phone calls over the next several days, as Senator Chris Murphy, a Democrat from the state of Connecticut, who has been trying to negotiate this issue for years now, he is going to be committed and leading this effort on the Democratic side.

You also can expect that Senator John Cornyn, a Republican from the state of Texas who has been dispatched by Minority Leader Mitch McConnell to lead the Republican side of this effort, is also going to be engaged in these conversations.

But, again, what they are looking at is really a narrow set of provisions, things like incentivizing states to pass more red flag laws, as well as strengthening background checks or access to mental health. These issues are not the big-ticket items that Democrats may have pushed for five, 10 years ago.

But they are arguing that, in the wake of this tragic shooting, something, anything needs to be done. Now, that's not to say there hasn't been a change of heart by some Republicans. Representative Adam Kinzinger, a Republican from the state of Illinois, said this about an assault weapons ban:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): Look, I have opposed a ban fairly recently.

I think I'm open to a ban now. It's going to depend on what it looks like, because there's a lot of nuances on what constitutes certain things. But I'm getting to the point where I have to wonder, maybe it's -- maybe somebody, to own one, maybe you need an extra license. Maybe you need extra training.

And so the question is, is it a ban vs. an additional certification?

(END VIDEO CLIP) FOX: And, Boris, obviously, a significant comment coming from a Republican, but important context here is that Adam Kinzinger is not up for reelection. He's retiring.

And he's certainly on an island right now among Republican members in the House when it comes to how to approach this tragedy. Be looking toward smaller-scale changes, rather than that assault weapons ban, as something that's really realistic up here on Capitol Hill -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Little constellation for the families of children that were murdered at this mass shooting and at too many others to list. We will see what comes of these talks.

Lauren Fox from Capitol Hill, thank you so much.

We have to take a quick break. When we come back, we're going to speak to experts about the police response to the shooting and potentially how to prevent more in the future.

Stay with CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:24:08]

SANCHEZ: There is grief and frustration in Texas, as the first funeral services are being held in Uvalde for the victims of last week's school shooting.

Families are demanding answers about law enforcement's delayed response. It now appears that officers on the scene were aware that at least one child called 911 from inside the classroom where the shooter was targeting them.

Let's get some insight on all of this from CNN counterterrorism analyst and former FBI senior intelligence adviser Phil Mudd. Also with us, active shooter prevention expert and retired police officer Chris Grollnek.

Gentlemen, we appreciate you sharing part of your Memorial Day with us.

Chris, I want to start with you, because this apparent dispatch audio we played at the top of the hour, it appears that police had real-time information that there were kids in danger in the room with the shooter.

[13:25:00]

What reasons would an incident commander at that point have to have his officers still wait outside the room?

CHRIS GROLLNEK, ACTIVE SHOOTER PREVENTION EXPERT: Hello, Phil.

Thank you, Boris. I appreciate the opportunity. But this is a tough subject to speak about. There is no excuse. The real-time intelligence was the sound of gunfire. A simple cursory look inside the window would show that something was desperately wrong.

It was raining police, and they still did not go in. There is no reason an incident commander would form a perimeter after the 1999 tragedy at Columbine. Every police agency taught that. And I have been involved in an active shooter as a police officer at our department, and I have a master's degree and my thesis is written on them.

I understand that time is of the essence. And if you don't go in, more lives are lost. And it's tragic that's what happened here.

SANCHEZ: Phil, let's talk about the Department of Justice investigation, a review, really not a criminal investigation, but rather a review of the law enforcement response in Uvalde.

What do you think the DOJ has to look at? What questions would you have?

PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Boy, there's a lot of them.

Let me break down two or three basics. We just talked about communications, for example, and dispatches. There's a lot of police agencies involved. To your question, one, was communication consistent? Were officers getting different dispatch -- different messages from different dispatch centers?

What do you do about that if you're the commander on the scene? The next would be policy and sort of guidance to police departments. There's language around where people are saying that the officers thought someone was barricaded in the room. As we were talking about a moment ago, do you draw a lesson that says, I don't care whether you do you judge the person who's barricaded, there's a message from dispatch that says there are students that go in there, you do not have latitude to wait?

So -- and the final that I think will be really difficult is consistency in training. By training, I'm not talking about going to a classroom for an hour a year, Boris. I'm saying, what do you tell 17,000 police agencies across the country about familiarizing a tiny police department in active training that might be very expensive and take a lot of time, when you may be dealing as -- with as few as a handful of officers in a small department?

There's a lot of lessons here, Boris. It's not going to be simple.

SANCHEZ: And what you just alluded to is such a tremendous challenge for communities like Uvalde, because nobody in that police department imagined that, some day, that was going to happen at their elementary school, at Robb Elementary School.

I want to bring up with Texas state Democrats are formally calling for in gun control legislation. They have raised this issue as a reason to call a special session. They're arguing the state should raise the purchase age for a gun from 18 to 21, to require background checks for all firearm sales. They want to implement red flag measures to temporarily get guns out of the hands of those who might be in imminent danger.

They also want to require a cooling-off period for gun purchases. They would also regulate high-capacity magazines.

Chris, I'm wondering, which of these policies do you think might have the most impact and which ones may be missing?

GROLLNEK: Briefly, to follow up on what Phil said, a barricaded person is not a barricaded person that's actively killing someone from start to finish. So, he's absolutely correct.

The policies that you're specifically asking about, we have to have everything on the table. There's not -- there's not one magic policy that's going to fix this. If we just make this about guns, we're going to forget mental health. If we make it about mental health, we're going to forget about guns.

And the training that this school had, they just had active shooter training. Maybe it's time to reimagine how we're training our departments. Phil said it beautifully. We need to just do more than one hour or even a walk-through. We need to have officers understand what the training is, and the people inside the place what the training is. It has to be holistic.

SANCHEZ: I wanted to share with you and our viewers this striking image from "The New York Times," a headline that says -- quote -- "Authorities Said the Gunman Was Able to Obtain the Weapon Legally."

And it's repeated 15 times for 15 mass shootings. According to the paper, through 2019, three out of every four mass shooters actually obtained their weapon legally. The NRA points to this, and they say that this is proof that background checks don't work and shouldn't be expanded.

But, Phil, one could look at that and say that it proves the opposite, that the country's background check system is broken and needs to be fixed, right?

MUDD: Give me a break. Let me give you a four-letter word, and that is fact.

If we had real hearings on Capitol Hill, let me suggest what might happen in those hearings. You would take countries where you have an equivalent level of mental health problems, for example, countries like the U.K., Germany, Italy, France -- you might bring in Japan -- and ask mental health and security professionals in those countries how they have limited attacks in those countries, including attacks by high-capacity magazines or by semiautomatic weapons.

Bring in people who have experience with a fact, Boris, and you're going to get a consistent answer. If you want another answer, bring in the Australians, who severely limited access to these kinds of weapons, and ask them what their murder rate was and what their suicide rate was by these weapons after.

[13:30:00]