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Uvalde School Officers Trained to Confront Active Shooters Two Months Ago; China "Firmly" Opposes U.S. Delegation's Visit to Taiwan; Russia Controls Part of Severodonetsk, Moving Downtown. Aired 10:30- 11a ET

Aired May 31, 2022 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:28]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: It's been a week already since a gunman entered a Texas elementary school and gunned down 19 children, two teachers. We are now hearing from a Border Agent who rushed into the Uvalde school with a borrowed shotgun.

Jacob Albarado was off duty when he hurried into the school to try to save his own daughter. He talked to NBC about how he got into the building.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACOB ALBARADO, BORDER PATROL AGENT WHO RESPONDED TO UVALDE SHOOTING WHILE OFF-DUTY: It's a small community.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

ALBARADO: My wife works at Robb. Everyone at Robb knows me. Pretty much all the local law enforcement knows me, or I know the majority of them. So I was able to go in. And I announced who I was and made my way through.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you ever have any occasion to interact with them at all?

ALBARADO: At one point, at one point I went -- I was there at the door, fixing to go in. But once again, I didn't have any of my gear. It wouldn't have been a smart move for me. All those guys had their gear and stuff.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Question, why was he allowed in while others waited outside? When he was asked what he thought about the officers who waited, Albarado said he believes, quote, "everyone there was doing everything in their power." Still many hard questions about that.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: So many hard questions. Real questions about whether or not police did. I mean, we know that everything was not done that could have been done -- but what other action would have saved lives and how many?

Let's talk about this with retired LAPD Police Sergeant Cheryl Dorsey and Mike Baker, national correspondent for the "New York Times."

Thank you both so much. And Mike, let me just start with you because you really dove in right after this shooting and spent days looking at the protocol and the training and what was laid out, and when they went through this training. Does your research indicate at this point that, indeed, even two months before this tragic shooting, these officers were trained on what to do and they didn't do that?

MIKE BAKER, NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT THE NEW YORK TIMES: Yes. They had been trained multiple times in recent years, including as you indicated in March. And that was a mix of both theoretical training in the hallways of these schools, doing role playing exercise, game planning how they might respond in the case of an active shooter. Bringing together multiple agencies so people knew how to coordinate and how to work together.

And it also included classroom discussions where the emphasis is really that officers need to go in. Their first priority is to go in and confront the gunman. That's their priority because the bloodshed is so great in these types of mass shootings that it needs to be stopped as soon as possible.

HARLOW: Sergeant Dorsey, the guidelines, and part of what Mike's research revealed, they just couldn't be any clearer, right? They go on to say if you're not willing to risk your life, you should pursue another career. And the guidelines even note that a single officer, you know, may need to confront the shooter. There are no nationalized active shooter protocols, right. I know there's 18,000 plus different law enforcement agencies.

Would something like a national standard help?

CHERYL DORSEY, RETIRED LAPD POLICE SERGEANT: Well, I don't say no to anything, but, you know, when you use the term guideline, you know, that's all it is. It's not something that's required or mandatory. It's just, kind of, it would be helpful if you guys could do this.

HARLOW: Right.

DORSEY: And so that's when common sense has to kick in, right? And so we understand now that there were many different agencies that were there on that campus. We have an incident commander in the school police chief who probably was incapable of handling this magnitude. And the questions that I have and that ultimately DOJ will probably find out is whether or not their communications office was able to get information to these six plus other agencies that were there on scene.

And even if these officers who is standing outside the door, reportedly, didn't get information that kids are calling real time, they had to hear the shots being fired. They had a duty to act. And some don't want to call a thing a thing, but there was errors all the way around, in my opinion.

HARLOW: Let me just ask you, Sergeant Dorsey, a really good question that Jim asked one of our guests earlier. And that is, criminal liability, do you believe here? I mean, obviously, protocols weren't followed, but how liable?

DORSEY: Well, you know, I guess that will remain to be seen. But certainly neglect. I mean, neglect of duty is an administrative issue that will be adjudicated and a lot of people want to know, you know, what does accountability look like? Well, when the DOJ makes their report, they're going to give a recommendation. Again, not something that has to be adhered to. And we have all these different agencies who have command staff officers who ultimately will decide what kind of disciplinary action, if any, will be taken against their officers who stood outside that door for 45 minutes, knowing that you had a command officer from the school district, the chief of police, giving orders, don't go in.

[10:35:13]

HARLOW: We know, Mike, that from State Senator Roland Gutierrez who represents the district and other reporting that never did Chief Arredondo makes a call to go in. It was finally, more than an hour later, officers in an entirely different division, right, Border Patrol, that said, that's it, we're going. So we don't know if he ever would have made that call. How was he the one chosen to be in charge? Is it simply his rank? Because he certainly commanded many fewer officers than other leaders that were eventually on the scene.

BAKER: Yes, and we've heard a lot of -- there was a lot of consternation on scene about the delays and the decision to go in. As to certainly who's jurisdiction, I mean, this is essentially a school campus, and as the school police officer, the chief of the police district, you know, it immediately is his jurisdiction to start with.

I think the people we've talked to were -- their assessment was, at some point, you would expect the school district police chief to then pass along the control of the scene to someone who has more resources or experience in handling sort of regular, violent events. That might be the local police department that has its SWAT unit and more officers, or it could be the state police when they come in and establish on the scene and have the resources and the skills and experience necessary to implement what needs to be done.

HARLOW: It's a really important point. And Sergeant Dorsey, I mean, Roland Gutierrez, who I just mentioned, the state senator who represents the district, raised these questions about operational control. Given all of your experience, at what point should an officer, another agency, buck the chain of command and take control? I mean, ultimately, that is what happened here. It took a long time.

DORSEY: Way before we get to 45 minutes after being on scene. And listen, most people think a police chief is all knowing. These guys are administrators. They're paper pushers. They sit behind a desk and listen to the information given to them by street cops and patrol supervisors like myself. And so when was the last time you ever saw a police chief in a foot pursuit or apprehending a suspect? Probably never.

So he should have stood down. He should have given command over to someone who actually knows tactical operations, who knows what to do when they're engaged with an active shooter and/or barricaded suspect. And I don't know if it was ego that wouldn't allow him to do it or just sheer incompetence.

HARLOW: Sergeant Cheryl Dorsey, thanks very much. Mike Baker, to you, too, for your excellent reporting. Jim?

BAKER: Thanks.

DORSEY: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Coming up next, China not happy when a U.S. senator led a surprise visit to Taiwan. Hear how China is reacting and what the Taiwanese think.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:42:33]

SCIUTTO: Senator Tammy Duckworth has led a congressional delegation to Taiwan and met with the Taiwanese president. The China president today it firmly opposes, as he usually does this visit.

Joining me now CNN National Security correspondent Kylie Atwood.

Kylie, this is happening because the U.S. is concerned about China's designs on Taiwan.

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

SCIUTTO: What happens now?

ATWOOD: Well, I think the big question to watch here is what more is China going to do, right? So these exercises that they've carried out are obviously tremendously important, significant, because they are bigger than what we have seen China do in this space over the last few months. And they speak to what the Secretary of State Tony Blinken said last week, that China is growing more and more aggressive towards Taiwan.

And so it's clear that the Biden administration is watching this. They are also watching the possibility that China goes even further, right? CIA Director Bill Burns has said that China is preparing to militarily take over Taiwan. So when do they do that? What do they need to be able to do that? And what does the Biden administration do to get in front of it? Those are all questions that lay to the feet of Biden administration officials right now.

SCIUTTO: No question. And China and Russia are connected, right? The administration wants to send similar message to both, don't invade, and we'll support if you do invade.

ATWOOD: Right. And they hope that China is taking note of the global pressure campaign that has been carried out on Russia because of its invasion of Ukraine. Russia didn't just get away with this invasion and it is all good and well for them. They are now a pariah on the world stage, and they want China to very clearly see that. SCIUTTO: And for Ukraine, these weapon systems the administration is

sending, MLRS, it's a multiple long range rocket system, basically, Biden set a limit on it. But they're still going.

ATWOOD: Yes. So these are systems that have different rockets that you can attach to them, right. So even though Biden said we're not going to be sending over any weapons that could launch or hit into Russia, that doesn't mean that they can't still bolster what they are sending Ukraine with these MLRS systems that you guys have reported are likely going to be in this next shipment of weaponry that the United States gives Ukraine, because they can still attach weapons to those systems that don't go hundreds of miles, but go maybe dozens of miles, and still bolster Ukraine's capabilities without going potentially over what may be this metaphorical red line that U.S. officials are concerned about with Russia.

[10:45:07]

SCIUTTO: And still a big boost to the range of the existing system, so it adds something.

ATWOOD: Exactly.

SCIUTTO: As Russia just pummels the eastern part of the country.

Kylie Atwood, thanks so much. Poppy?

HARLOW: All right. Right now Russian forces are slowly advancing in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine. There is new video and what it shows is Russian troops in the center of Severodonetsk, although Ukrainian officials say their fighters still have control of other parts of the city. The battle could be a pivotal moment because Russian President Vladimir Putin has made clear that taking that territory is one of his main goals.

Our correspondent Melissa Bell joins us in southeastern Ukraine.

Melissa, thank you for being there. What is the latest on that?

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, a hugely important and symbolic battle, and one that's been going on for many weeks. And of course, there is the fate of those 15,000 Ukrainian civilians believed to be still trapped inside. Efforts to get them out this hour now suspended. Efforts to bring humanitarian aid in also made extremely difficult by that very intense fighting you were just showing.

But perhaps if you look at a map of those territories here in Ukraine that are currently controlled by Russian forces, you get a better idea of exactly why that town, city of Severodonetsk, and its potential fall that appears to be on course because of the advantages that Russia has on the front line these days, matters.

I'm standing here in Zaporizhzhia, to the south of that. And just 30 miles from here are the Russian-controlled start of Ukraine. So a village that is 30 miles away. We hear here, we've seen the last few days cruise missile attacks. We can hear the regular thud of outgoing artillery. We can hear and we're hearing reports from the neighboring villages of heavy artillery attacks on those villages as well.

Weaponry moving northward, as well. And that matters, of course, because what you're talking about beyond the severity of what's going on in Severodonetsk is an entire region of Ukraine that is currently seeing a frontline that continues to inch forward. And most of all, Poppy, it's actually being hardened. That line between the two Ukraines now being hardened.

We've just been hearing from Ukrainian authorities, not something we've been seeing here on the ground in and around Zaporizhzhia, that there is now a complete information blockade. So if you're living in Kherson, if you're living in Mariupol, one of the cities that's fallen over the course of the last few weeks to Russian forces, you've got no more mobile phone connections, you've got no more internet connections. That means that those people who had to flee can no longer get in touch with their relatives at all.

Here in Zaporizhzhia, for instance, the wider region, there are five districts, three of them this hour are completely without communication. And what we've been seeing happening is that line hardening. So it's harder for people to get out. It's harder for those who fled already to get back in, to try to get to their houses and their homes and their loved ones. And now it's impossible to get through to anyone on the other side.

That, of course, for the humans, the refugees, those who had to flee their homes, extremely distressing as this fighting continues -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Melissa Bell, thank you to you and your team for being on the ground and for that reporting, very much. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Yes. Remarkable progress for Russia into the east.

Parts of the U.S., from Texas to Michigan, are under threat of severe weather today. How big is the threat? How long will it last? That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:53:08]

SCIUTTO: Right now, large parts of the middle of the U.S. are under the threat of severe storms. Yesterday, strong storms hit Minnesota, creating a possible tornado that slammed into a small town in the west central part of the state. Just look at that destruction there.

HARLOW: And authorities say about 100 buildings were damaged or, as you can see, flat out destroyed. Fortunately, no one was seriously injured.

Let's go to our meteorologist Chad Myers for more.

There is more severe weather in the forecast today, right?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: There is. And there were only five tornadoes yesterday. And we always say, it only matters if there is one if it is in your neighborhood and that's what those people experienced. 148 wind damage reports. Hail on the ground yesterday was as big as tennis balls.

Now, right now things have calmed down. There's only a couple of showers around Kansas City. But later on today in this yellow area, all the way back down to the orange area in Oklahoma and Kansas, that's where the storms are going to fire up again. Some of them will be rotating. There may be a tornado or two, probably not 10 or 20. The biggest threat today will be some wind damage and also, of course, the hail again.

This time, though, Chicago, you're involved in this. And then for tomorrow, it moves farther to the east, away from you. That's why there are so many millions involved today because it does include some pretty big cities. For tomorrow, a lesser extent, no orange on the map. We're still seeing, though, the potential for some flash flooding. There is still rain going to be coming down today in places that it already had four to six inches of rain from the storms yesterday and a few days ago, as well.

Something else we're watching out here in the tropics, the potential for something to develop. I know we don't like to talk about this, but we have to. The water is getting warm. Hurricane season starts June 1st, so here we are. And then a 60 percent chance of development from the National Hurricane Center. We have a low that's already here, and we have the remnants of Agatha. Hurricane Agatha that came on shore very close to, you know, Puerto Escondido yesterday.

[10:55:05]

It was a little further to the south of there but that's what we're getting here. And the combination of this may make the first storm of the season. We'll see right now 60 percent chance of something out there -- Poppy, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Looks rainy down there. Chad Myers, thanks very much.

HARLOW: Thank you, Chad. Thanks so much for being with us today. I'm Poppy Harlow.

SCIUTTO: Good to have you back, Poppy. I'm Jim Sciutto.

HARLOW: I'm so happy to be here.

SCIUTTO: "AT THIS HOUR" with Kate Bolduan starts right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)