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Supreme Court Escalates Roe v. Wade Leak Probe, Demands Phone Records; Gun Violence Archive: 17 Mass Shootings Since Uvalde; First Ship Leaves Mariupol Since Russia Seized City. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired May 31, 2022 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:31:01]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: New exclusive reporting now, CNN has learned that Supreme Court officials are escalating their search for the person who leaked the draft opinion that would overturn Roe v. Wade.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: According to multiple sources, officials are taking unprecedented steps requiring law clerks to provide cellphone records and sign affidavits. CNN's Joan Biskupic broke this story. So Joan, tell us more about what's happening behind the scenes there.

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Nice to see you Alisyn and Victor. Yes, sources with knowledge of these new demands on clerks are saying that cellphone data would be collected and affidavits would be signed. This is quite an escalation. And what it indicates is that during the past four weeks since the investigation was first launched after the leak of -- to POLITICO, is that sufficient progress hasn't been made, and that they're taking these really extraordinary steps. I've never known ever for the court to -- look into the -- scrutinize their employees work this way, in such a broad scale way.

There are about 40 clerks, or a few less than that. And everyone who would have been in that original circulation of that draft by Justice Samuel Alito could total, you know, maybe up to 80. But obviously, the court is looking specifically at the law clerks. And that has caught, raised some alarms among the clerks.

You know, you have to figure that disclosure of this draft opinion certainly jolted the country, certainly has rattled people outside in America. But it's disrupted things behind the scenes, as they're trying to finish up cases. And the law clerks who are helping the justices finish up, you know, some of the biggest cases of this entire year are now being put on the defensive.

And one appellate lawyer who is familiar with the new demands, told me that in any other situation of a government investigation, similarly situated employees would probably go outside and look for a lawyer. That's what they would do. And he said, you know, if the Supreme Court tries to prevent that it would be hypocritical to deny its own employees, its own law clerks, you know, this kind of legitimate legal counsel.

Now, I want to make clear, Alisyn, that it's not that I believe that all sorts of clerks are now rushing to lawyers. But this request has certainly got them looking outside, trying to figure out what should they do if they obtained counsel, will they -- will new suspicions come to them. But as we all know, our lives are on the cellphone.

So this has nothing to do with, from their point of view, whether they had, you know, talk to journalists, but rather all the kinds of personal information, images, data texts, that are on our personal cellphones.

BLACKWELL: And this at this point is a request, right? This is not an order. This is a request for this information.

BISKUPIC: Oh, right. No, it's not like there's been any kind of, in fact, there's been no outside government entity coming in, as you would have in sort of a criminal investigation. No. This is the marshal of the Supreme Court trying to further her investigation. Apparently, having reached dead ends, and now taking this extraordinary step.

But if you say no to the request, you know, I think it's a very delicate act here for these law clerks. How much do they automatically say they'll do and how much do they want to hold back. Victor?

BLACKWELL: All right, Joan Biskupic with that exclusive reporting, thank you.

BISKUPIC: Thank you.

[14:34:20]

CAMEROTA: Seventeen, that's how many mass shootings have reportedly taken place since the massacre in Uvalde, Texas. Some school districts now putting new safety protocols in place, we'll explain.

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CAMEROTA: Canada's Prime Minister says the math on guns is simple, quote, the fewer guns, the safer everyone will be. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau proposed a bill to freeze handgun sales in Canada following the deadly mass shootings in Uvalde, Texas and Buffalo, New York.

BLACKWELL: CNN's Alexandra Field is here now with us. So the Canadian government also wants people who have these, I guess the military style semiautomatic rifles to also turn them in.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, exactly. Look, two years ago Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced a ban on some 1,500 different styles of assault weapons after the deadliest massacre in that country. He is now saying there will be a buyback program to compensate affected businesses or people. But the new legislation goes way beyond that. It goes after handguns across Canada. Here's what it does. It freezes the buying, selling, transferring, and importing of handguns. It also increases fines for gun smugglers and traffickers. And it requires all long guns to hold five or fewer rounds, which means, of course, also the ban of the sale of large capacity magazines.

[14:40:18]

Now, Trudeau said that he understands that the majority of Canadian gun owners act responsibly, but he says the reality is that gun violence is going up.

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JUSTIN TRUDEAU, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: As a government, as a society, we have a responsibility to act, to prevent more tragedies. The Canadians certainly don't need assault style weapons that were designed to kill the largest number of people in the shortest amount of time.

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FIELD: Prime Minister Trudeau says these are real and concrete steps that can reduce gun violence. He also says what a lot of people may be thinking, which is that Canadians need only look south of the border to see how much worse it can get if you don't take action.

CAMEROTA: Alexandra Field, thank you very much for that reporting.

BLACKWELL: So there have been 17 mass shootings in this country in the seven days since the massacre at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde.

CAMEROTA: President Biden was pressed on the crisis when meeting with New Zealand's Prime Minister today.

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've gotten to more mass shooting aftermaths than I think any president in American history, unfortunately. And that's -- it's just so much of it, much of it is preventable, and the devastation is amazing.

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BLACKWELL: Well, the President said that he'd meet with Congress on guns but some school districts are not waiting. The city of Buffalo has ramped up police presence at schools, all schools doors will remain locked in anyone who is not at or not a school or a student or a teacher, I should say, cannot show up unexpectedly. Now, of course, you know, Buffalo is where a gunman killed 10 people at a grocery store days before Uvalde.

CAMEROTA: And then the Los Angeles School District will reduce access to campuses and establish safe corner areas. But what else can be done? Let's bring in Tom Mauser. He lost his son Daniel in the Columbine school shooting in 1999. He's now a board member of the gun control advocacy group Colorado Ceasefire. Tom, thanks so much for being here. I know these are -- this is all just a horrible deja vu for you as it is for so many victims' families. You've seen far too many of these. You've seen Congress do far too little. What can change this time?

TOM MAUSER, SON KILLED AT COLUMBINE: I think it's just the ongoing nature of this has to work on people to say, we can't live like this. We cannot go on like this. There has to be a change. Doing nothing is not going to change. Change it in America. It's only going to continue.

BLACKWELL: You know, I just mentioned --

MAUSER: And I think what's really important is, I think it's really important to reach out to people who were in the middle on this issue. People who who believe in their right to bear arms, but also understand as the majority of Americans do, that it's OK to have restrictions on that right. That's -- we have to really reach out more to those people.

BLACKWELL: I just mentioned what Buffalo is doing, what Los Angeles is doing. You led the fight in Colorado on loopholes. We saw Florida after Parkland and Connecticut after Sandy Hook, not much movement at the federal level. Should the focus be on state and local, where there has been some movement instead of Congress? What do you think?

MAUSER: You know, I think that it's important that states take action and a number of states have taken action like we have in Colorado. But at some point, you know, guns cross state boundaries just as easily as an automobile does. So Colorado is surrounded by a number of states that have very weak gun laws. So that's a danger to Colorado. That's why in a number of areas, we need to have action at the federal level.

CAMEROTA: Tom, how about gun sellers, how do we get them to do the responsible thing when a troubled 18-year-old comes in and wants to buy an AR-15?

MAUSER: Well, I think we could do more education certainly of gun sellers to be asking more questions. And when you have somebody who is for example, buying an AR-15 and body armor and tactical gear, I think you do have to be asking questions. I really do. I think you shouldn't just be looking at it as sale or you have an obligation to go on with that sale. But I also think at the same time, we really need as a nation to be asking if we shouldn't be selling these kinds of weapons to someone who's 18 anymore. I think it's clear that we need to raise that age for purchasing these kinds of weapons to 21.

BLACKWELL: Yes. You know, I said when I was in Buffalo that this happens and then nothing changes. And someone told me that's unfair to say because there are groups like Moms Demand Action and Change the Ref in Sandy Hook promise that sprout up and there are new activists. But do you see their hand spin in the last 23 years there has been significant progress at all?

[14:45:11]

MAUSER: Again, at the state level, with the federal level, nothing.

CAMEROTA: Tom, when you say that we need to reach out to responsible gun owners of which we know there are millions and not vilify them, how would you do that? I mean, what does that sound like?

MAUSER: You know, I think the main thing we have to do is we have to really get, we have to respond more to the typical kinds of cliches and excuses that we hear from the gun lobby, excuses for gun violence. And the message that they put out there that, oh, any change in laws is all about confiscation. You know, you can't you can't confiscate 400 million guns in America, that's not going to happen. This is not about confiscation.

This isn't about -- this is about reasonable steps that we can take, like we have in Colorado and other states to do something about this epidemic of gun violence. Red flag laws, assault weapon bans, and a number of things like has happened at the state level.

BLACKWELL: You know, I've read that you protested outside the NRA convention in Colorado after the Columbine shooting. You protested in Houston after the most recent convention, and there's a detail I'd like you to explain to our viewers that you wear your son shoes. Tell me about that and why?

MAUSER: Well, first, let me say I didn't protest outside in Houston. I wish I could have it just wasn't enough time to arrange that. But yes, I wear my son's shoes, because we were the same shoe size. And to me, it was just very symbolic of how I walk in his shoes. I'm doing what I feel that he would want me to do. Daniel was someone who was interested in current events on the debate team.

And he asked me two weeks before Columbine, if I knew there were loopholes in the Brady bill. And then he was killed with a gun that was purchased through one of those loopholes in the Brady bill, the gun show loophole that we closed in Colorado, so I feel it's a way to symbolize how I'm doing what he would want me to do.

CAMEROTA: That's powerful Tom. Tom Mauser, thank you very much. Great to talk to you. Thanks for your thoughts on what we should do now.

BLACKWELL: Thank you Tom.

Right now in southern Ukraine, Ukrainian officials say Russia has implemented a complete information blockade with several cities now without internet and cellphone connection. We are there, next.

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[14:52:27]

BLACKWELL: Russian forces are continuing to advance on Eastern Ukraine but in the south where troops already hold several cities. Ukrainian officials are reporting a complete information blockade. They reportedly don't have internet or mobile connections and are being forced to buy Russian SIM cards. CAMEROTA: Russia's Defense Ministry also released this video showing the first ship to leave Mariupol after it claimed the port city. CNN's Melissa Bell is in Ukraine with the latest. So Melissa, Russia excels as we know, information blackouts, what now?

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Showing the information that the ports now under its control are functioning once again, remember how that blockade of the Ukrainian held port of Odessa is hurting the world in terms of Ukraine's grain exports. So with that picture trying to show look, even under Russian control, the ships will continue to head out. Remember that Mariupol is now been fully in Russian hands nearly for two weeks.

But what you are talking about there, that line that goes essentially from Kherson now all the way up to Severodonetsk that is even now falling into Russian hands. And on the edge of which I'm standing now here in Zaporizhzhya on the Ukrainian side, essentially a line between Russia held Ukraine just 30 miles away from my understanding where it begins. And here that is pushing forward. We're hearing artillery fires coming out from where I'm standing and incoming rocket fire on the other side to those positions, we're very close.

A frontline that continues to inch forward, Alisyn, but most importantly, that is actually hardening. And you speak about that information blackout. And I think that is crucial. What we're seeing is that all along that line are people who for instance, we've been meeting with today. So some of those Ukrainians who had fled those cities as they were taken by Russia, remember the siege of Mariupol and its brutality, they'd fled across this line to try and seek refuge. They're trying now to get home that the fighting stopped now that these cities are back in Russian hands, and they're finding that it's very difficult to get through that line.

But what they're also finding is they simply can't call, they can't call their relatives they've left behind their kind of any communication, telephone lines, internet completely down. Here in the wider region of Zaporizhzhya, there are five districts, three of them this hour are completely without communications. And that gives you an idea that this is a war not simply about military advances. There is a de facto line that divides Ukraine even now where far more measures are being taken to try and divide his people, Victor and Alisyn.

BLACKWELL: Crucial points there. Melissa Bell, thank you.

[14:54:51]

CAMEROTA: So back here, the prosecutor who's investigating Donald Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 Georgia election results wants answers from the state's attorney general, the new subpoena next.

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CAMEROTA: In Georgia, the State's Attorney General Chris Carr has been subpoenaed to testify before a special grand jury. This subpoena stems from the investigation into former President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn the state's 2020 election results. BLACKWELL: Let's bring in now, CNN's Sara Murray. What can you tell us about this subpoena?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he's been subpoenaed to testify in late June. And obviously we don't know everything that prosecutors want to ask him about. But we do know that in December of 2020, Trump allies filed a lawsuit with the Supreme Court. They were trying to toss out votes in Georgia, votes in a number of other battleground states that Joe Biden had won.

At that point, Donald Trump called Chris Carr, and urged him against trying to organize any Republican opposition to this lawsuit. So of course, we would expect this to be part of the questioning when he does go in. And this is a narrow part of this investigation that's playing out in Georgia. It all stems back to that now infamous, called between Donald Trump and Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger. Let's take a listen to a portion of that.

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DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So look, all I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more that we have because we won the state.

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MURRAY: Now after that call, it came to play the Fulton County District Attorney said she was looking into any efforts by Donald Trump and his allies to overturn the election and whether those efforts were criminal. The special grand jury is going to start hearing from witnesses this week and we expect Brad Raffensperger to be one of the first ones. He's one of many folks in Georgia who've been receiving subpoenas with lately in Georgia. We know that there are five other people current and former officials from his office, who have also been subpoenaed to testify. Back to you guys.

[15:00:21]

BLACKWELL: Sara Murray watching it all for us. Thank you.