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Uvalde Incident Commander Refuses to Answer Questions; More Services Today for Victims of Uvalde Shooting; Teacher Closed Door Gunman Used; U.S. to be a Supporting Force to Taiwan Against China; Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired June 01, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:16]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

CNN has exclusive new reporting this morning regarding Uvalde School District Police Chief Pedro Arredondo. He was the incident commander who made the call to hold off reaching the classroom where all 21 victims were killed at Robb Elementary School. Right now Texas officials have said that Arredondo has not responded to Department of Public Safety officials asking for a follow-up interview but speaking with CNN this morning in an exclusive interview, Chief Arredondo says he has been in touch with DPS. We'll have much more on that and the video in just a moment.

HARLOW: Also, officials now say the door that the shooter used to enter the school was actually not propped open as initially reported but closed by a teacher once she realized there was a gunman on campus. Investigators are now trying to determine why that door failed to lock. But let's begin this hour with our crime and justice correspondent Shimon Prokupecz.

Shimon, you spoke briefly this morning with Chief Arredondo, someone that everyone has been wanting to hear from. What happened?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, certainly, we've been trying to make contact with him for the last several days. We haven't heard from him since the day of the shooting. We've been at his house. Finally this morning, our producer, Aaron Cooper, spotted him at his home, had a brief conversation with him, but then we were here at the chief's office here at the school district behind me when we spotted him coming in through the back and we approached him to ask some questions.

Specifically, the accusation that he was the one who ultimately made the decision, that he was the incident commander who decided not to allow officers to breach that door where the gunman was. We also asked him about his cooperation in the investigation. Here's what he had to say about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PROKUPECZ: We want to talk to you about your decision on what the DPS --

ARREDONDO: How is it going? Nice to meet you.

PROKUPECZ: Want to talk to your decision and what --

ARREDONDO: Sure. But just to let you all know, I just spoke with --

PROKUPECZ: I know you did.

ARREDONDO: You're not blocking me, are you?

PROKUPECZ: No, no, no.

ARREDONDO: Just so you all know, just so you all know, we're not going to release anything. We have people in our community being buried. So we're going to be respectful.

PROKUPECZ: I just want your reaction to --

ARREDONDO: We're going to be --

PROKUPECZ: -- that Director McCraw saying that you were responsible for the decision.

ARREDONDO: Right, we're going to be --

PROKUPECZ: To go into that room. How do you explain yourself to the parents?

ARREDONDO: We're going to be respectful to the families.

PROKUPECZ: I understand that. But you have an opportunity to explain yourself to the parents.

ARREDONDO: And just so you know, we're going to do that eventually obviously.

PROKUPECZ: When?

ARREDONDO: And whenever this is done, the families stopped grieving, then we'll do that obviously. And just so everybody --

PROKUPECZ: Do you understand how the families -- how the families --

ARREDONDO: Just so everybody knows, we've been in contact with DPS every day. Just so you all know. Every day.

PROKUPECZ: They say you're not cooperating.

ARREDONDO: I've been on the phone with them every day.

PROKUPECZ: They say you're not cooperating. Just two seconds.

ARREDONDO: Just so you know we have been talking to them every day.

PROKUPECZ: What is your reaction to him? ARREDONDO: Appreciate you all. No, have a good day.

PROKUPECZ: What is your reaction, sir?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PROKUPECZ: And obviously, Jim and Poppy, the big question is, what was his thinking in those days? Those are the answers that the community, that the parents want, and that's why it's important, you know, for moments like this so that we can ask him the questions. He has dodged the media. He didn't take questions the night of the shooting. He has refused to answer any other questions.

This was the first time that we have been able to ask him any questions, and as you can see, he did not want to answer any of those questions, saying he wants to wait until the families stop grieving. That is never going to happen. The families here, the community here, I've been out here for several days, they are demanding answers. They want to know why he made the decision that he made.

I should also note that the school spokesperson just came out a short time ago, Anne Marie Espinoza, she told us that the school will be issuing a statement. I asked her if that's going to address, as, Poppy, you mentioned that door, the door that did unlock. She refused to answer that question.

So certainly we are continuing to hunt for answers, and certainly, the family is and so that continues as we wait to hear more from investigators and now from the school.

SCIUTTO: What does he mean by in touch? Does it mean he was answering e-mails but not the substantive questions the investigators have? So many things to find out.

Shimon Prokupecz, thanks so much.

HARLOW: Thank you, Shimon.

Well, next hour, the Sacred Heart Catholic Church will hold a funeral for Irma Garcia, the heroic teacher who died protecting her students. Family members describe her as sweet and kind and loving, and fun.

SCIUTTO: CNN correspondent Nick Valencia, he is there near the Robb Elementary School where this all took place in Uvalde.

Nick, our team there has seen a message that Garcia's daughter left, one of so many heartbreaking moments throughout this. What do you know?

[10:05:04]

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's a touching tribute, Jim, to a daughter that will never be able to make another memory with her father. And that's really striking when you see these memorials behind me, the personalized message to those victims and each of the 21 victims that lost their life last week has a cross here in this square in Uvalde, and it is those personalized messages that really drive home that these were people with, you know, their own ambitions, their own hopes and dreams that will never be realized anymore.

A message from the daughter of Mr. Garcia. You know, we spotted that a short time ago and I want to read that just for our audiences to, you know, get to the core of this emotion here that the community is feeling. She says, "Dad, I know this is way too much for you. Your heart could not take it. I will spend the rest of my life fighting for you and mom. Your names will not be forgotten. Your daughter, Lilliana."

This really underscores the, you know, raw emotion that this community is feeling, more than a week after the shooting happened. You could see that tragedy and that really the sorrow reflected on nearly everyone's face that you see here in Uvalde, and it will be more grief later today as they continue to bury those victims from last week's massacre. The beloved teacher at Robb Elementary School who taught for 23 years, Irma Garcia, a hero to many people in this community who died protecting her students. She's the wife, of course, of Jose Garcia, whose daughter wrote that message.

And also, in addition to Miss Garcia's funeral, there's also the funeral of Jose Flores, Jr. And we learned about Jose Flores, Jr. from his father who said that he went to the hospital hoping that his young son was alive knowing that there was a chance he wasn't and when he got there, he was taken into the room with a chaplain. And at that point, he realized what happened.

This is the kind of grief that this community is having to deal with, as they are searching for answers. Something that Shimon underscored. They had been misled at best and at worst, lied to. And there is a clear problem with transparency in this community from the officials -- Jim, Poppy.

HARLOW: Clearly there is. Nick Valencia, thank you for helping us remember some more about those victims.

We're also learning more about a touching tribute to one of the victims, 10-year-old Amarie Jo Garza who was laid to rest yesterday. Her parents say she was trying to call 911 during the mass shooting when the gunman shot her and killed her.

SCIUTTO: One of many calls from inside that classroom from children. Yesterday the Girl Scouts of the USA posthumously awarded this little girl, Amerie Jo, with one of its highest honor, the Broze Cross. It is awarded for saving or attempting to saving a life at the risk of the Girl Scout's own life. There she is.

At her funeral yesterday, the local Girl Scout chapter presented Garza's family with that honor, tweeted, quote, "We will carry her story with us always and ensure her brave actions will endure for generations."

HARLOW: We're also hearing more from the teachers inside of Robb Elementary School when that gunman attacked. Educator Nicole Ogburn said that she had just turned on a movie for her students when she saw someone carrying a gun outside of her classroom. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICOLE OGBURN, ROBB ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TEACHER: I just like looked out the window, and I see this guy with a gun walking up. And I just told my class, get on the ground. Get on the ground. Get to the corner. I just kept hearing shots fired. And I just kept praying, God, please don't let him come in my room. Please don't let him come in this room. And for some reason, he didn't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Texas investigators are now correcting a claim they made that a teacher propped open a door shortly before the shooting, and the gunman used that to get inside. The teacher's lawyer says that the teacher shot the door once she realized there was an active shooter on campus. Authorities are now looking into why it did not lock automatically as it's supposed to.

Let me bring in Guillermo Contreras, staff writer for the "San Antonio Express News." Guillermo, thanks you for being with me very, very much.

Guillermo Contreras, staff writer, San Antonio Express News: Good morning, how are you doing?

HARLOW: I'm all right. I want to play for you the original comment that the Texas DPS director Steven McGraw made about that door and then your subsequently learned from your reporting. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVEN MCGRAW, DIRECTOR, TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY: We know from video evidence at 11:27, the exterior door suspected, where we knew the shooter entered, Ramos, was propped open by a teacher.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So that's what they said then but you spoke with the lawyer for the teacher. What did that lawyer tell you actually happened according to this client?

GUILLERMO CONTRERAS, REPORTER, SAN ANTONIO EXPRESS NEWS: Yes, so the lawyer for the teacher does confirm that the teacher did go out to the parking lot to get some food from a car, and had propped open the door because she assumed that the door, it's always supposed to be locked. So that's the reason for her propping it, so she could just bring the food in.

HARLOW: Right.

CONTRERAS: She comes back with the food, and sometime during this, she sees the accident, which turned out to be the gunman.

HARLOW: Right. CONTRERAS: And she goes back in for her phone and grabs the phone and

comes back out, 911 with the operators and sees that now the accident, the person in it has a gun and she's told by workers at a funeral home that the man has a gun, so she sees this immediately and as she's talking to 911, she grabs the door, kicks the rock away and pulls it closed and it shut.

And DPS was able to verify this using video that has audio, and, you know, according to the reporting I've done, you can hear the door slam shut.

HARLOW: I mean, those are really important facts and they're also counter to what officials said in the wake of this shooting as we just played, and that's not the only narrative that has changed. You're on the ground reporting around the clock on this. Where is the level of trust or mistrust within the community at this point of officials?

CONTRERAS: Yes. From all the e-mails I've received, some calls I received, you know, people are losing trust in the narrative, you know, and what police has provided them, you know, with what their elected officials have provided them. There's contradicting statements. And you know, part of that is just maybe a delay in the officials putting out information. In other cases, I've talked to sources that the information was given to officials, higher ups, and to the governor but it was ignored. So some of the stuff has been out there, you know, and provided and it was ignored. And that's just disturbing to me.

HARLOW: Of course. Another completely, you know, contradictory narrative that we're now hearing is DPS says that the chief who was in charge and made the decision not to have officers, you know, break down the door and go into that room and confront the shooter, Chief Pete Arredondo, was not answering their request for a follow-up interview. And then Chief Arredondo tells our producer Aaron Cooper and Shimon Prokupecz this morning, no, he's talking to DPS every single day. I mean, one of them is true and one of them is not, and the parents deserve to know now.

CONTRERAS: Right. I mean, there's been, you know, officially, DPS has said that he hasn't responded in two days. You know, they've tried to reach him by phone, text. I understand he has lawyered up, you know, he's hired a lawyer, as many involved in this situation are likely to do. You know, we understand that this stuff might not rise to a level of criminal conduct, but, you know, there are active investigations and the potential for civil liability is high.

HARLOW: Of course. Right. And despite all of that, in the midst of all that, we learned that he was actually, Chief Arredondo, sworn in to a city council seat meeting yesterday. They cancelled the public ceremony but they still swore him in. Do you know why?

CONTRERAS: Yes, he had, by law, he had to be sworn in. I believe the deadline was yesterday.

HARLOW: OK. CONTRERAS: And so the new council members that were elected, you know,

and we're still trying to find out the details about that. It may have been done by Zoom but it wasn't -- apparently the public wasn't given prior notice about it, and so we're looking into whether, you know, open meetings laws were violated.

HARLOW: That's a really interesting point.

Guillermo Contreras, thank you so much for this but really for your excellent reporting on the ground throughout.

CONTRERAS: Thank you so much.

HARLOW: Jim?

SCIUTTO: What a story to cover.

Still to come this hour, senators are pushing ahead at least on discussions of a bipartisan path forward on gun legislation, including focusing red flag laws. We'll hear from a sheriff who has gone against the tide of his party to support such measures in the state of Colorado.

HARLOW: Also, more advanced weapons are heading to Ukraine, as the country's president says they're losing up to 100 soldiers per day on the eastern front where America's advanced rocket systems could make an impact for Ukrainians. We'll talk about that next.

And then we go to California where the drought is so severe, some communities worry they will run out of water this summer. New dramatic water conservation rules impacting millions and those start today.

[10:15:08]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: We are getting new details about how the United States says it would defend Taiwan against Chinese aggression if conflict arises.

SCIUTTO: The Army Secretary Christine Wormuth seemed to lift the veil somewhat on U.S. war planning in the event of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan, including the possibility of providing air and missile defense as well as the possibility of further U.S. Military involvement.

[10:20:03]

CNN's Barbara Starr, she's live at the Pentagon.

Barbara, these were remarkable details for an army secretary to provide in public. Looking at those comments, do you have a clear sense of exactly how far militarily the U.S. would get involved here?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning to both of you. You know, it's a very interesting question. You'll remember, just several days ago, President Biden publicly said the U.S. might intervene militarily if China were to invade Taiwan. So that's kind of the starting point for all of this and we now see Wormuth who is a political appointee by the White House, confirmed by the Senate, lifting that veil, as you say.

What she was talking about is trying to get access to bases out in the Pacific region, bases as close as possible potentially to a conflict zone and then using advanced army weapons that are still in development. She even mentioned the possibility of a long-range system that could sink ships as they cross the Taiwan Strait to fire at a range of something like 200 miles.

So she's laying out a sort of pattern of what a war plan might begin to look like where the U.S. would try to deter China militarily with fire against Chinese targets, but also try at least to stay out of the way of any Chinese counterattack, any Chinese counterfire. That's just the beginning. We don't really know how far a U.S. war plan would go at this point, but she went on to talk about deterrence and say that the goal is to make the Chinese leader President Xi wake up every morning and think that today is not the day he wants to take on Taiwan.

So there is certainly a bit of messaging here. A very tough message against China, trying to tell them that the U.S. would come to the defense of Taiwan. Still, pretty unusual to see an army secretary go into that kind of military operational detail.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and a walk back to the walk back we saw following President Biden's comments on military involvement.

Barbara Starr, thanks so much.

STARR: Sure.

SCIUTTO: This morning, President Biden has announced the U.S. will send another $700 million worth of weapons, defense systems to the Ukrainian military. In a "New York Times" op-ed the president writes that America wants to see, quote, "a democratic, independent, sovereign, and prosperous Ukraine with the means to deter and defend itself against further aggression."

Among the newly provided weaponry is the multiple launch rocket system, which is a highly capable long-range system. CNN was first to report the inclusion of that in this weapons package.

I'm joined now by retired Army Major General James "Spider" Marks.

First, if we can on Taiwan, General Marks, as you heard Barbara there, the army secretary saying the U.S. would strike Chinese military targets in the event of a Chinese invasion. Has the U.S. now made clear it would go to war with China if it were to invade?

MAJ. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I think the president removed the veil, didn't he? He eliminated the strategic ambiguity which has really underpinned our relationship with Taiwan since the Taiwan Relations Act of 1979 and we begin selling and cooperating with the Taiwanese. Look, one of three things have to happen. One, the United States

continues to sell its most modern kits to the Taiwanese so that the U.S. and its capabilities are present for that potentiality. Number two, the U.S. is already there, or number three, the U.S. is going to be able to, based on indicators, get there as quickly as possible and get engaged.

SCIUTTO: Now that's a deliberate and distinct difference between the U.S. position on Russia and Ukraine, because the president again reiterated in this "New York Times" op-ed, he says we do not seek a war between NATO and Russia. He also went on to say the U.S. is not seeking to bring about his ouster in Moscow but the U.S. has deliberately avoided direct confrontation with Russian forces in and around Ukraine. Why the difference here with China and Taiwan?

MARKS: You've got to ask the president.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MARKS: To me, it makes no sense other than what it does with President Putin. You know, he just lines up a series of things. You know, red line in Syria, Crimea, an evacuation on Afghanistan that went sideways terribly. And he's checking the boxes. And he goes, the president said he's not going to get (INAUDIBLE), great, time to move.

SCIUTTO: OK. Let's talk about Ukraine here. First of all, when you hear the Ukrainian president, by the way, Ukrainians have been deliberately very mute, frankly, about the degree of their personnel and equipment losses but now saying 550, rather, to 100 killed in action for days, as many as 500 injured. You know better than me, that's an enormous personnel loss for any force, particularly a force the size of Ukrainians. I mean, how long can it survive a battle like that?

[10:25:02]

MARKS: Yes, Jim, that's the question. Why did he mention it now, and number two, that's unsustainable. And I think we're moving through this point, it's been described by both your analysis and others, that this is an inflection point for the Ukrainians. What the Ukrainians can achieve over the next two to three months is what Ukraine is going to look like geographically over the course to the next two to three years.

But this is a long-term engagement and the Ukrainians need to be able to achieve that success now. So I don't understand the psychology of acknowledging that level of sacrifice, although it's realistic to imagine that.

SCIUTTO: So virtually, every week, it seems we have a new key weapons sent to Ukraine. It shows the urgency, I mean, it was the U.S. howitzers, right, and this artillery war in the east. Anti-ship missiles, harpoons, trying to open up the Black Sea, and now you've got this rocket system again, because, you know, Russia has been using long distance rockets to great effect there.

I mean, do any of these, has the collection of these change the battlefield in your view?

MARKS: Well, I think what is happening with the high MARS, the high mobility artillery rocket system, which has a range of about 40 miles.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MARKS: These are rockets and they have the ability to put missiles, which means they've got some precision to them. But that really gives the Ukrainians great reach and that's the way the Ukrainians have achieved success is when they can get into the Russian rear and start to set the conditions for how the immediate engagement is going to look like. So how far out they can attack is what's most important, yet it seems to me like there are some restrictions on the use of the high marks, not to attack into Russia which I think would really do damage to the Russian momentum, if they can do that.

SCIUTTO: Major General Spider Marks, we'll keep checking in. I mean, things move very quickly on the ground. Thanks for joining us.

MARKS: Thank you, Jim.

HARLOW: Well, still ahead, wait until you hear from this Colorado sheriff who calls himself a Second Amendment guy, vehemently supports red flag laws, how he pushed one to pass in Colorado.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)