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Verdict About To Be Read In Johnny Depp v. Amber Heard Defamation Trial; Jury Find Both Heard And Depp Liable For Defamation. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired June 01, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Publish it with respect to reckless disregard as to its truth, so the jury has to make that assessment as to the claims that they're addressing from Johnny Depp to Amber Heard. Then they have to pivot, Victor, and they have to determine whether or not Amber Heard, excuse me, in terms of her saying, "Your lawyer said me being a domestic survivor was a hoax," was that in effect defamatory too. So there's a lot for them to have gone through and there's a number of things to evaluate with respect to reaching this unanimous seven-person verdict.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: We see the Judge coming out here now. Let's see if they're (inaudible) ...

JUDGE PENNEY AZCARATE, CIRCUIT COURT JUDGE, FAIRFAX COUNTY, VIRGINIA: Are we ready for the jury?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, Your Honor.

AZCARATE: All right.

CAMEROTA: Let's listen in for a second.

AZCARATE: Just to - for everybody in the gallery (inaudible) that this is a court of law and regardless of the verdict, I will not tolerate any outburst whatsoever, okay? Thank you.

CAMEROTA: They're - it sounds like they're bringing in the jury right now. The jury is coming in and getting situated and then we are waiting.

Joey, are we going to hear guilty or not guilty? Are we going to hear that?

JACKSON: So this is a civil trial, so it's assessed in terms of liability or not liable. That's what we'll hear, liable are not liable. If you're liable, you get to the issue of damages which are monetary. If it's not liable, there's nothing further to discuss.

CAMEROTA: And it's whether Amber Heard is liable are not liable, is that what we're going to hear first?

JACKSON: Well, there's two portions. First, Johnny Depp, are you liable with respect to defaming Johnny Depp and then you pivot to the counterclaims, is Johnny Depp liable to Amber Heard. And remember, the standard of proof is not beyond the reasonable doubt as in a criminal trial. The standard is what we call by a preponderance of the evidence, meaning is it more likely than not, much lower standard.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Hold on.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Let's go back into the courtroom.

AZCARATE: (Inaudible) ...

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They're discussing something and we don't know what it is and that's why they do it at sidebar. I just want to mention there are seven members on this jury. It's not like a criminal trial. We know that there are five men and two women, which is interesting. But the jury does have to be unanimous, which is unlike other states on a civil trial they do not have to be unanimous, here they do.

BLACKWELL: Let's bring in Loni now. Loni, is the jury's decision here on liability and damages, is that final word?

LONI COOMBS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, they can always appeal, right? Like Johnny Depp is appealing his case in the U.K. against The Sun. He hasn't won on those appeals. And also, we need to remember that if damages are awarded, there's compensatory damages as well as punitive. And in Virginia, there's a cap to the punitive damages at $350,000, so if they award more than that, the Judge will lower it to $350,000.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Loni, hold on a second.

AZCARATE: When you find for a defamatory statement one or more you need to fill out the compensatory damages, it has to be at least a dollar for compensatory damages and up to whatever you feel the damages should be. And for punitive damages, you can put a zero there or you can fill out that as well, but I need those lines filled out, okay? All right. So if I can have you retire back to the deliberation room and do that for me, okay?

BLACKWELL: So it appears here that the form was improperly completed. Maybe if there is some finding of damages here, they - that they just didn't write it into the space.

CASAREZ: Exactly. Joey and I just looked at each other because we don't know what the Judge is saying, but she didn't say if you find damages, she put it in as an affirmative statement, damages have to be filled in.

JACKSON: Yes, that's what I heard. And just to make the distinction as Loni brilliantly explained, there are a couple of portions of damages. There's compensatory and punitive. Well, what does that mean in English? Compensatory damages are designed to make you whole. Meaning damages you loss that are specifically attributable to any type of defamation, right?

If someone does something to you, you can pinpoint the specific amount, that's designed to compensate you. Punitive damages are designed to punish you to say what you did was wrong and I am going to show how wrong it is by putting as many zeros as I can. Now, before we go on and get too excited about that, because I'm with Jean, it seems as - if she says, hey, you have to fill in the number amount, she being the Judge, there was an assessment as to liability. We've seen cases where you can be liable and the amount could be a dollar.

CAMEROTA: Right. And, in fact, the Judge just said that. But Loni, does this mean that we think that Amber is going to be liable for damages or Johnny Depp or both?

COOMBS: Well, I don't know which side, but it's very clear to me that they did find liability somewhere and it's interesting if you vote (ph) after the arguments made by Johnny Depp's attorney in the closing arguments, they said, look, all he really cares about is the liability.

[15:05:07]

He wants to be able to tell his truth, he doesn't care about the money. You can come back with zero if you want. So maybe they just (inaudible) we just have to find the liability and we're not going to worry about the damages. Neither side really argued very strenuously about the damages. So I can see why the jury might have thought, that's not the important part, we just find the liability.

And the way the forms are filled out, that's at the very bottom of the form, in the damage part. So if they went through and they found a liability, they may have thought, okay, that's the important part, we're not going to worry about the damages here.

BLACKWELL: Yes. It's interesting to see how long they'll be in the room, if they've settled on a number and just forgot to write it in or if in this moment, they're going to decide what that number is, we're going back to see exactly what the Judge said, because there was a bit of a technical glitch that clip the beginning of the sentence, but we can get that back to find out exactly what was said.

Let's bring in Chloe Melas now. And Chloe, there is - there has been this fascination with the Depp-Heard trial, more than a hundred hours of testimony. Tell us about what you're seeing.

CHLOE MELAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: I think that there are a lot of factors at play here. And I've talked to Jean and Joey, who are such great legal experts about this and I think a lot of it has to do with social media, with TikTok and all of these viral moments. A lot of the moments about - this is about domestic abuse.

These are very serious allegations and claims being made on both sides here. And some of that has gotten lost in the court of public opinion. That really has heavily been tipped in Johnny Depp's favor. And that's a question that I've been answering even to my own family members who are peppering me with questions for the past several weeks and it's really because Johnny Depp has been such a celebrity in so many films and franchises for decades.

And Amber Heard, as a newcomer, comparatively, but she has helmed - she's in Aquaman, but there are over 4 million signatures on this Change.org to get her taken out of the franchise altogether. It's really interesting to also have watched Johnny Depp's not just legal strategy, but the PR strategy.

I did a whole piece this weekend for cnn.com where I interviewed casting directors, agents, publicists at the top of Hollywood saying that really his team did such a good job when it comes to getting the message out there. What was Johnny Depp saying, remember, Amber Heard switched, this is not a slide against her, it's just a point, she switched PR teams in the middle of the trial. She was unhappy with the way that she was being portrayed in court and she also got up there on the stand and said, I have been, and Warner Brothers hasn't commented on this, but that my role in Aquaman has been reduced because of the amount of attention that this trial has gotten.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

MELAS: This has not been fun for me. So I think though that it's really interesting, you see all those people who are outside of the courthouse right now, every single morning, they're there. They're screaming awful things to Amber Heard.

CAMEROTA: It's awful.

MELAS: And saying they're in favor of Johnny Depp. And it's really unfortunate to see that because the center of this case, I feel like, is being lost talking about the jelly beans that Johnny Depp is eating in the courtroom.

CAMEROTA: Right. And I do want to talk more about that and it has gotten so ugly, you're right. But we did just go back and replay what the Judge said, so let's listen to it one more time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AZCARATE: I need to give the forms back to you. When you find for a defamatory statement one or more you need to fill out the compensatory damages, it has to be at least a dollar for compensatory damages and up to whatever you feel the damages should be. And for punitive damages, you can put a zero there or you can fill out that as well, but I need those lines filled out, okay? All right. So if I can have you retire back to the deliberation room and do that for me, okay?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Okay, so Jean, did we (inaudible) ...

CASAREZ: Yes, that was it.

CAMEROTA: ... when you find for ...

CASAREZ: She said when you find for the defamatory statement or statements, then she made it plural, you have to find compensatory. She gave a roadmap, right, a dollar you can give if you want, so that speaks volumes. It looks like the attorneys may know what the verdict is because they wanted that sidebar. We now know that sidebar is most likely because of that issue right there. I want to talk also about what Chloe is saying, because I think it's

so important. I think another thing that made people turn their attention to this trial, Johnny Depp testified early in the trial. He was a very early witness for his side and he testified that he was a victim of physical abuse.

He testified that he was hit and for a man to come out saying I am a man and I'm a victim of domestic abuse, he said that she would start hitting him and he would run to the bathroom. He would run to bedrooms. He would lock himself in. She'd be pounding on the door because he wanted it to end.

We then heard - the jury then heard an audio tape where Amber Heard is saying, yes, I slapped you okay. I did hit you, I slapped you. Come on, Johnny. Don't be such a baby.

[15:10:03]

So it was admitted into evidence that there was that. Now, there was much against Johnny Depp. But I think when you hear a man saying I was a victim, I think that demands attention and I think it did get attention.

BLACKWELL: Yes, it's certainly something we do not hear often.

CASAREZ: Correct.

BLACKWELL: And I want to ask you about the influence of the testimony about abuse, because obviously the testimony from Amber Heard about Johnny Depp's abuse play specifically to the question of defamation. But his testimony about her abuse and the recording of her admitting a slap, what role - Joey, I'll bring this to you - does that play on the suit and countersuit?

JACKSON: It plays a significant role, right? So backing up for what we're waiting for, which is the actual verdict, we don't know just to be clear whether the jury and making an assessment. Clearly they found something defamatory, whether which side that's on, right? So we don't know whether they're saying that Amber Heard defamed Johnny Depp or vice versa, right?

Because remember, Amber Heard has noted that through representations that her claim of domestic abuse is a hoax that that's defamatory. So just in having this discussion, I don't want a presumption to be made, we'll know any minute, as to whether the jury has concluded that Amber Heard is somehow liable or responsible, we'll learn that momentarily, or whether the jury has concluded that Johnny Depp is liable or responsible, so just backing that up.

But when you talk about the issue of domestic abuse, it's important, and it's important because it goes to the core of the issue of defamation. What is defamation? As we discussed, it's a falsity. It's a representation that you know to be false, you make it anyway and it endures your reputation, people build a long time and they take a long time to build reputations. And when someone with knowledge of falsity, right, or reckless

disregard as to which truth or lack thereof makes a statement, it's impactful. And the interesting thing though, bringing this full circle, Victor, it's not only important in a discussion about what happens in the courtroom, it's important, right, to go back to Jean and Chloe's point about public opinion.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

JACKSON: By large measure, that's what Johnny Depp has said, right? That he wants his life back, et cetera. And he just wants to be known as a southern gentleman who would not hit anybody ever, wouldn't do anything to her or anyone else. And so clearly, the court of public opinion has favored him.

And interestingly enough, and Chloe you mentioned your family members and mine too have asked me about this, but I find so many people want to talk about the Pirates of the Caribbean and everything else, and they're not locked in on the specifics of what the case is about. What will be an issue to me is whether the jury can separate the celebrity and actually analyze the case on the issues at hand before them irrespective of the social media really machine that's been out there for Johnny Depp.

CAMEROTA: Well, we're about to find out. Jean, hold that thought, because we're going to take a very quick break while we wait for the jury to fix that paperwork and then we will be right back with the Amber Heard-Johnny Depp verdict.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:28]

BLACKWELL: All right. The breaking news coverage, there is a verdict in the Depp-Heard defamation case. We know, of course, that the jury was in the courtroom a little more than 15 minutes ago. Johnny Depp suing his ex-wife for defamation $50 million, countersuit for $100 million. Let's take a live look inside the Fairfax courtroom.

There was some activity in the courtroom during the break, but the Judge has not returned, the jury has not returned. I want to continue our conversation here with Jean Casarez, Chloe Melas, Loni Coombs and Joey Jackson.

And Loni, let me come out to you, it's been about 15 minutes since the Judge sent the jury back. She said that when you find for the defamatory statement, they have to determine what the damages are even if it's as little as a dollar - the Judge is back. She's likely going to call the jury back in. Let's listen.

AZCARATE: Okay. Let's do that. All right. We're ready for the jury.

CAMEROTA: Okay. They're waiting still for the jury to come in. That shouldn't take very long. Hopefully they have the paperwork filled out properly this time.

BLACKWELL: Yes, Loni, how fertile is this period for an appeal, 15 minutes to figure out what the number is?

COOMBS: Well, look, I think, jury instructions are very difficult to follow and verdict forms or finding instruction forms can be very difficult to fill out. And so I don't think this is going to be necessarily an issue on appeal. They just needed to be clarified that you actually have to fill out a number and if they come back with $1, that seems to be like that will be fine, that's what they intended all along.

But one side or the other may - the attorneys may say, look, we want to talk to the jury about what really happened and find out if there is an issue for appeal, but not necessarily given that it is going to be an appealable issue.

CAMEROTA: We're still waiting. We're moments away from hearing the jury and I'll interrupt you, Joey, if they start talking.

JACKSON: of course.

CAMEROTA: Isn't it possible they're both guilty? Isn't it possible they both were abusive? Isn't it possible they both said defamatory things?

JACKSON: So that's an option, right? It's not guilt right again, it's (inaudible) ...

CAMEROTA: Oh, hold on, the jury is talking. Hold that thought.

AZCARATE: All right. Is it unanimous? Thank you, sir. Okay.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In Civil Case Number CL-20192911, Mr. Depp's claim against Ms. Heard, one, as to the statement appearing in the online op-ed entitled Amber Heard I spoke up against sexual violence and faced our culture's wrath that has to change.

[15:20:09]

In The Washington Post online edition, "I spoke up against sexual violence and faced our culture's wrath that has to change." Do you find that Mr. Depp has proven all the elements of defamation? Answer, yes. Has Mr. Depp proven by a greater weight of the evidence that: Question: The statement that was made or published by Ms. Heard? Answer: Yes.

The - question: The statement was about Mr. Depp? Answer: Yes. Question: The statement was false? Answer: Yes. Question: The statement has a defamatory implication about Mr. Depp? Answer: Yes. Question: The defamatory implication was designed and intended by Ms. Heard? Answer: Yes. Question: Due to circumstances surrounding the publication of the statement, it conveyed a defamatory implication to someone who saw it other than Mr. Depp? Answer: Yes. Do you find that Mr. Depp has proven by clear and convincing evidence that Ms. Heard acted with actual malice? Answer: Yes.

Two; As to the statement appearing in the op-ed entitled "A Transformative Moment For Women" in The Washington Post's print edition and the online op-ed "Amber Heard: I spoke up against sexual violence - and faced our culture's wrath. That has to change" in The Washington Post's online edition:

"Then two years ago, I became a public figure representing domestic abuse, and I felt the full force of our culture's wrath for women who speak out."

Do you find that Mr. Depp has proven all the elements of defamation? Answer: Yes. Has Mr. Depp proven by a greater weight of the evidence that: Question: The statement was made or published by Ms. Heard? Answer: Yes. Question: The statement was about Mr. Depp? Answer: Yes. Question: The statement was false? Answer: Yes. Question: The statement has a defamatory implication about Mr. Depp? Answer: Yes. Question: The defamatory implication was designed and intended by Ms. Heard? Answer: Yes. Question: Due to circumstances surrounding the publication of the statement, it conveyed a defamatory implication to someone who saw it other than Mr. Depp? Answer: Yes. Do you find that Mr. Depp has proven by clear and convincing evidence that Ms. Heard acted with actual malice? Answer: Yes.

Three; As to the statement appearing in the op-ed entitled "A Transformative Moment For Women" in The Washington Post's print edition and the online op-ed "Amber Heard: I spoke up against sexual violence - and faced our culture's wrath. That has to change" in The Washington Post's online edition:

"I had the rare vantage point of seeing, in real time, how institutions protect men accused of abuse."

Do you find that Mr. Depp has proven all the elements of defamation? Answer: Yes. Has Mr. Depp proven by a greater weight of the evidence that: Question: The statement was made or published by Ms. Heard? Answer: Yes. Question: The statement was about Mr. Depp? Answer: Yes. Question: The statement was false? Answer: Yes. Question: The statement has a defamatory implication about Mr. Depp? Answer: Yes. Question: The defamatory implication was designed and intended by Ms. Heard? Answer: Yes. Question: Due to circumstances surrounding the publication of the statement, it conveyed a defamatory implication to someone who saw it other than Mr. Depp? Answer: Yes. Do you find that Mr. Depp has proven by clear and convincing evidence that Ms. Heard acted with actual malice? Answer: Yes.

[15:25:00]

As against Amber Heard, we, the jury, award compensatory damages in the amount of $10 million. As against Amber Heard, we, the jury, award punitive damages in the amount of $5 million.

In Civil Case Number CL-20192911, Mr. Heard's claim against Mr. Depp: One; As to this statement appearing in the April 8, 2020 online edition of The Daily Mail: "Amber Heard and her friends in the media use fake sexual violence allegations as both a sword and shield, depending on their needs. They have selected some of her sexual violence hoax 'facts' as the sword, inflicting them on the public and Mr. Depp." Do you find that Ms. Heard has proven all the elements of defamation? Answer: No. Two; as to this statement appearing in the April 27, 2020 online

edition of The Daily Mail: "Quite simply this was an ambush, a hoax. They set Mr. Depp up by calling the cops but the first attempt did not do the trick. The officers came to the penthouses, thoroughly searched and interviewed, and left after seeing no damage to face or property. So Amber and her friends spilled a little wine and rough the place up, got their story straight under the direction of a lawyer and publicist, and then placed a second call to 911."

Do you find that Ms. Heard has proven all the elements of defamation? Answer: Yes. Has Ms. Heard proven by a greater weight of the evidence that: Question: Mr. Waldman, while acting as an agent for Mr. Depp, made or published the statement: Answer: Yes. Question: The statement was about Ms. Heard? Answer: Yes. Question: The statement was seen by someone other than Ms. Heard? Answer: Yes. Question: The statement was false? Answer: Yes. Do you find that Ms. Heard has proven by clear and convincing evidence that the statement by Mr. Waldman was made with actual malice? Answer: Yes.

Three; as to this statement appearing in the April 27, 2020 online edition of The Daily Mail: "We've reached the beginning of the end of Ms. Heard's abuse hoax against Johnny Depp." Do you find that Ms. Heard has proven all the elements of defamation? Answer: No.

As against John C. Depp, II, we, the jury, award compensatory damages in the amount of $2 million. As against John C. Depp, II, we, the jury, award punitive damages in the amount of $0.

AZCARATE: Does either side wished to have the jury pulled?

ELAINE BREDEHOFT, AMBER HEARD LAWYER: Yes, Your Honor.

AZCARATE: All right. Jamie?

JAMIE: Members of the jury if this is your verdict, please answer yes. If this is not your verdict, please answer no.

Juror number six?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

JAMIE: Juror number 10?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

JAMIE: Juror number 15?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

JAMIE: Juror number 16?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

JAMIE: Juror number 22?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. JAMIE: Juror number 27?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

JAMIE: Juror number 29?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

AZCARATE: Okay. I do find that the jury's verdict is unanimous.

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your service in this case. I want to thank you again for your dedication and your hard work during this trial. I know I speak for everybody here when I appreciate - to tell you that we appreciate your sacrifices and your time and your public service in this matter, okay?

So I'm going to have you go back to the jury deliberation room for one more time and then we'll release you from there, okay? All right. Thank you.

All right. Okay. In accordance with law, I will amend the punitive damages award to the statutory cap of $350,000 on Mr. Depp's award, okay? I will set this down for entry of an order and can we do it on June 24th at 10 am, if that's available?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, Your Honor.

AZCARATE: All right. Mr. Chew, if you could prepare that order and then circulate it to Ms. Bredehoft, and we can have all the objections noted on it. All right.

[15:30:01]

BEN CHEW, JOHNNY DEPP'S LAWYER: Will do that, Your Honor. Thank you very much.

AZCARATE: All right. And if I get it before that date, I'll take it off the docket, okay?

CHEW: Thank you.

AZCARATE: All right.