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Michael Moore is Interviewed about the Grand Jury Probe in Georgia; Britain Celebrates Queen Elizabeth; Jared Bernstein is Interviewed about Higher Gas and Food Prices. Aired 9:30-10a

Aired June 02, 2022 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: To move the ball forward legally here?

MICHAEL MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, MIDDLE DISTRICT OF GEORGIA: You know -- well, good morning to both of you.

I do think the tape is an incredibly strong piece of evidence. And the question will be whether or not it's admissible ultimately in a trial. And, you know, there's a lot of legal arguing about that. But you'll remember that Georgia is a one party consent state. What that means is that one party to the conversation had to give consent prior to the recording for the recording to be actually admissible.

And so we know that Brad Raffensperger has said he did not know it was being recorded. He said that in a recorded interview some months back. And I'm sure Trump is going to say that. So the question will then be, were other people who were heard on the call, that may have been party to the call, did they, you know, is that allowable and did they actually make the recording?

I think what should be looking for today from him is to button that up, to find out who was present, ultimately who made the call, who participated in the call. She'll have to ask him if he knew it was being recorded. She'll ask him how he felt about the president's threats. Did he feel like that he was being intimidated, that he was in fear of some reprisal if he did not find the votes? Did the threats have some criminal prosecution weigh on his mind? And did he feel like that his duties as the secretary of state were being influenced by the former president, who, at the time, really, while he was president, he was also a candidate.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

MOORE: So, they'll have to separate those roles. And most candidates may call an elections official and say, hey, what's going on, I'm looking for these poll boxes (ph). I haven't seen these votes come in. That's a very different thing than if you're the leader of the free world and you're calling and saying, you might end up in a criminal case if you don't find the votes.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Right.

MOORE: So those are the things she'll be looking for today.

HARLOW: Yes, all great points.

I wonder if you think, Michael, that, you know, political timing affects any of this because now you have Raffensperger defeating his primary challenger, who was a Trump-backed congressman who voted to overturn the election. But I just wonder if you think that affects how free he may feel to be with his answers now.

MOORE: I think he probably feels like the chain has come off his tongue a little bit here and that he'll be able to talk more freely about it because he did win the election. Of course he now has to win a general election going forward. We know he had some Democratic support in the primary. I do think he'll talk about it.

I've heard a lot about the politics of this. And it's trying to be apolitical. But that's a nice thing to say. But the reality is, it is political. And the longer this goes on, the more effect it may have on races. And if you wonder if it's being treated different than another case, ask yourselves how many special grand juries are going on right now in the state of Georgia.

So, it's a different kind of case. There are political implications to it. And the longer it drags out, I think the more risk you have that it may have some impact in the fall of 2022 election. We'll be an applet procedure (ph). We may not get to this case actually until they're through with all the appeals in the appellate court until 2024. And at that time the question will be, does the case hand Trump the megaphone to play the victim card or does it influence election in another way? So, you have to consider that. Her job is not to let politics interfere. Her job is to simply seek the truth. That's what a prosecutor is supposed to do.

But this is a difficult case. And you can tell from the media attention it gets, it's certainly the length of time going on that it has political ramifications.

SCIUTTO: Yes, I mean, it's not just how people vote, it's how candidates think they might be able to influence the vote right after the fact.

MOORE: For sure. Right.

SCIUTTO: I do want to shift to the January 6th committee investigation, also ongoing.

MOORE: Sure.

SCIUTTO: A former Republican staffer says that, and this is a staffer who's had access to those text messages that we've got something of a sampling of, says that the panel has collected massive absolutely damning evidence.

I just want to quickly play one of his comments last night on CNN and get your reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DENVER RIGGLEMAN (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE AND FORMER JANUARY 6TH COMMITTEE ADVISER: I think what people are going to understand about the Meadows text messages is how horrible they are. I have to tell you this, Anderson, when I first saw them, my bemusement turned into horror pretty quickly when I saw some of the language that was being used in there. I actually had to get away from the computer a couple of times as I was looking at these text messages. And, you know, starting November 3rd, November 4th, in the Meadows text messages, all the way to the end, it is a road map. And I would have to say, at this point, I think Mark Meadows is the MVP for the committee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Committee members have teased the idea that they may have found evidence of criminal behavior by the president and others. Not their judgment. That would be the Justice Department to look at.

I mean what would the standard need to be? I mean we've got a sense of some of these text messages. They were plotting to overturn the election. But what would need to establish evidence for criminal behavior?

MOORE: I think if you will think about it in terms of much like a mob type situation, or a mafia type situation, where you have somebody at the top calling the shots, they may be looking for direct orders, they may be looking for sort of coded language that's being used, they may be looking for him calling certain people at certain times to find out if something has happened, which would be an indication that he was aware it was going to happen beforehand.

[09:35:05]

I think that's the kind of evidence.

A lot of the more complex cases like this, they get taken down and conspiracies get broken apart because of things like text messages and because people really can't keep their mouth shut. And so they -- at the time that the crime is going on, they're continuing to direct activity, they're continuing to act like they're invincible and will never get caught. And then, at the end of the day, when the organization or the crime ring is busted, then you can look back and you can see, in the evidence -- the things they were saying at the time become some of the worst evidence against him. I don't know what's in those things, but my guess is that they're feeling like there's some criminal -- if that's true, that there's some criminal liability that may be being revealed, it's because there's some specific direction from somebody that may be linked back directly to something that Trump asked for.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Mike Moore, it's always great to have you, especially on a day like this. Thanks so much for your candor and for filling us in with your thoughts on this. MOORE: Great to be with you all.

HARLOW: All right, well, turning the page in a significant way, the U.K. is celebrating Queen Elizabeth's 70 years on the throne with a lot of pomp and circumstance. Up next, how the Bidens are getting in on the celebration.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:40:53]

SCIUTTO: Today marks the beginning of a four-day celebration in honor of Queen Elizabeth's platinum jubilee. No other monarch in British history has achieved 70 years of service on the throne, seven decades. So Buckingham Palace pulling out all the stops, as you would expect them to.

HARLOW: The four-day celebration. Festivities began this morning with the queen's birthday parade, known as Trooping the Colour. Last hour, the queen and senior working members of the royal family appeared on the balcony.

Moments ago, President Biden and the first lady sent their own messages of congratulations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Your majesty, congratulations on your platinum jubilee. For 70 years you've inspired people with your selfless devotion and service to the people of the United Kingdom and the commonwealth.

Throughout your reign, the relationship between the United Kingdom and the United States has grown stronger and closer than ever.

JILL BIDEN, FIRST LADY: Throughout the years, the joy your visits to the United States have brought Americans and your solidarity with the American people in times of tragedy have deepened the friendship and profound connection between our countries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: CNN international anchor and royal correspondent Max Foster joins us from London.

Max, I was just thinking that the - was it the diamond jubilee before, it seems like yesterday, and now the platinum.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR AND ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and it's interesting to see how things have changed.

HARLOW: Yes.

FOSTER: And that's what these moments really do in terms of the monarchy. It's, you know, back at that jubilee you saw a tiny group of people up on the balcony. So, it was Harry and William and Kate and Charles and Camilla and the queen to reflect those austere times. This time we saw more people, but they were all working members of the royal family. And the queen was really saying this is what the modern British monarchy should look like.

Also, quite convenient way of not having Meghan and Harry and Prince Andrew up there on the balcony as well.

But we know that the Sussexes were here. They were part of the viewing group up at the parade ground. They are here. They're invited to all the official events, but they're playing quite a low key role. This is all about celebrating the positive side of monarchy. And it's interesting hearing the Bidens speak there. This is what you often get.

We were speaking to some young people in Kenya today, that's where the queen became queen. She found out her father had died. And then talking about moments where the queen of (ph) Kenya, she's been around for so long, she's so famous, and these moments punctuate our own lives. So whether you're a monarchist or not it seems that so many people are up to date with the story, they follow the story. It's a real life soap opera, to some extent. But I think the queen really does rise above it all, rise above monarchy in a way.

And that also raises the question, doesn't it, about what happens after her. And that was very much part of the messaging today, really. She wasn't able to go up to the parade ground, so Prince Charles stepped in for her there. Prince Charles was next to her on the balcony. We had Prince George very close to her. She's trying to set the scene for the next monarchy, while making it very clear, in the way that she looked, that, you know, there's still lots of time left in her monarchy as well.

So, a big poignant moment. We're not going to see anything like this in our lifetime again, 70 years on the throne. It's unprecedented and Brits are enjoying it, as you can see from the crowds.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Yes, we have to keep coming up with precious stones and medals to honor her all those years on the throne. Platinum. Diamond.

FOSTER: The next one is oak, apparently.

HARLOW: Really? That's such a downgrade.

SCIUTTO: Oak. We can do better than that by far.

Max Foster, thanks.

FOSTER: And then it's granite.

SCIUTTO: Oh, well, (INAUDIBLE) strong, lasting things (ph).

HARLOW: Can't wait.

SCIUTTO: I'll take the platinum. Max Foster, thanks so much. Good to have you.

With inflation and gas prices continuing to rise, the White House is putting in a renewed focus on the economy. But even President Biden admits there is not much he or the administration can do in the short term. A member of the White House Council of Economic Advisers joins us live, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:49:12]

SCIUTTO: This week, as the Biden administration increases efforts to convince Americans it has a handle on the inflation, and the economy, President Biden is acknowledging he has limited options to bring down high gas and food prices in the near term.

Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's a lot going on right now. But the idea we're going to be able to, you know, click a switch, bring down the cost of gasoline is not likely in the near term, nor is it with regard to food.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Joining me now to discuss, White House economic adviser Jared Bernstein.

Good to have you back.

Can you hear me OK, Jared?

Let's get that audio.

JARED BERNSTEIN, MEMBER, WHITE HOUSE COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS: He can't hear me.

SCIUTTO: There you go. Jared Bernstein, how about now?

BERNSTEIN: Yes, I hear you and I think now you hear me.

[09:50:02]

SCIUTTO: I do, indeed. OK, great.

BERNSTEIN: OK.

SCIUTTO: We just played the president's comments granting that there is no immediate fix to high gas and food prices in his view. I mean is the president saying he's powerless in the short term to bring Americans relief?

BERNSTEIN: Far from it. Far from it. Neither is he saying that, nor is that anywhere close to the case. I mean, in fact, the president had an op-ed earlier this week in "The Wall Street Journal" where he pointed out the many steps that he's taking, both unilaterally and in global context with our partners to preside over the largest release of global oil reserves from both our countries and those of many of our partners.

At the same time, he's increased the supply of E-15 ethanol gasoline and he's also trying to get Congress to work with us here to pass clean energy tax credits and investments that CEOs tell us will lower utility bills by $500 a year. That is real money to working families.

SCIUTTO: OK. OK.

BERNSTEIN: Something he tangibly gets.

SCIUTTO: Understood.

BERNSTEIN: So, anything but powerless.

SCIUTTO: But - well, you and I know that that release from the oil reserve does not drive the international markets. There are far bigger forces driving prices. But on Congress here, one, Democrats may lose control of the House in just a few months time and the president still has most of the biggest pieces of his domestic agenda stalled there.

What gives you or he confidence that he can move Congress on those measures he described in that op-ed?

BERNSTEIN: Well, let me start with the first part of your question, which is the forces that are putting upward pressure on commodities, not just gas but also food. Of course, there you have Putin's unprovoked invasion of the sovereign nation of Ukraine. Something the president is, of course, deeply involved in trying to help Ukrainians. And he has - he has - he's told us that this is going to be a factor in these energy markets.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BERNSTEIN: We have to push back on that to help consumers. But, of course, you know, that's in the mix as well.

Now, when it comes to Congress helping us pass our agenda, this president has consistently pulled rabbits out of hats in very tight legislative situations. I think right now, if we make a case to members of Congress, particularly those in our caucus, that families can have lower prices of prescription drugs, of health care, of child and elder care, and housing, all of which are legislative priorities where we have policies in place to make a difference in those household budgets, that -

SCIUTTO: I know, but you - but you don't have the votes.

BERNSTEIN: You know, that's - that's -

SCIUTTO: You don't have the votes. You haven't shown you have the votes. BERNSTEIN: So, look - so, look, you're talking to the president's economic adviser. What I can tell you is we have deep and compelling arguments as to why members of Congress, if they truly want to help on the inflation front, this is the way to do it.

And, in fact, the president has said, you know, fighting with Mickey Mouse and culture wars isn't going to stock the shelves. So, one of the things he's tried to do is draw a contrast between actual ideas that will have an impact on family budgets and prices and ones that clearly won't. And we just haven't heard really any cogent ideas from the other side when it comes to helping with inflation. We've seen lots of complaining and almost no policy.

SCIUTTO: I want to talk about other inputs in here. We did have the Treasury secretary, Janet Yellen, say, in effect, that she got it wrong in terms of how serious and quickly inflation would become a problem. You spoke to my colleague, Poppy, last year, and I just want to play what you said at the time and get your reaction.

Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERNSTEIN: The risk of overheating in terms of price pressures is considerably smaller than the risks of doing too little to finally put this crisis behind us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Do you look back now and say, listen no one has a crystal ball, but do you look back now and say, you know what, we juiced the economy too much and we underestimated the risk of overheating the economy and overheating prices?

BERNSTEIN: You know, look, it's easy to look back on what you said a year ago and, you know, find flaws, and I could probably do that. I actually thought what I said is something I would continue to stick with, and here's why. And this comes out of the president's op-ed that I mentioned earlier.

The Federal Reserve just released a report that said in 2021 -- remember, after the deepest recession since the Great Depression, in 2021, American families told the Fed that they felt more financially secure than any year on record in that survey. Manufacturing jobs are at a 30-year high. Business investment, 20 percent up. Entrepreneurial applications for small business, historic record, 8.3 million jobs. That's what I was talking about. That was the tradeoff that I was talking about a year ago. And we would not have the strong, economic backdrop to this inflation if we hadn't taken those steps.

Now, what about the inflation itself? Let's look globally. Virtually every advanced economy is looking at highly elevated inflation. And some of those most exposed to Putin's war actually have higher inflation rates than we do. So, we got the growth rates.

[09:55:02] We've got the lower child poverty. We've got the business investment. We've got the jobs. We've got the tight labor market. And, yes, we have highly elevated inflation that we have to fight against.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BERNSTEIN: But so does every other advanced economy.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this. And I know this is not your purview, you're an economic advisor, but it is a priority for the White House to get formula into the hands of mothers still waiting for it.

Can you update people watching right now, who are still looking for this stuff on their pharmacy shelves, as to when they will see -- when they should expect to see some relief?

BERNSTEIN: So, here's some notes on that from yesterday, from the president's announcement. Beginning June 9th, United Airlines is going to ship the equivalent of almost 4 million 8-ounce bottles. This is part of the opportunity fly formula that in this case is being donated by an airline carrier.

Also on June 9th, (INAUDIBLE) Australia is going to transport the equivalent of almost 5 million 8-ounce bottles of formula, and that's the first shipment of 27.5 million bottles. These shipments build on the 1.5 million bottles transported in the first two Operation Fly Formula flights. So those are some very near-term relief.

By the way, that's a coordinated measure with other agencies in the government that have to loosen some of the import rules around that. So, along with invoking the Defense Production Act to make some of this happen, those are some near term measures that are going to help stack those shelves.

SCIUTTO: Jared Bernstein, we appreciate you taking the time, as always.

BERNSTEIN: My pleasure.

HARLOW: All right, just ahead, we are live in Tulsa, Oklahoma, where we have the latest on yet another mass shooting in America, including new details just in about the guns used in this attack.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)