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President Biden Urges Congress on Act on Gun Reform; Strong Jobs Report; Peter Navarro Indicted For Contempt of Congress. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired June 03, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:10]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: I'm Victor Blackwell. Good to be with you.

Another adviser in Donald Trump's White House was just indicted by a federal grand jury. Peter Navarro was arrested by the FBI today. He's currently in custody. He is expected to appear in federal court any minute now. Navarro faces two counts of criminal contempt of Congress for refusing to comply with the January 6 investigation.

One count is for failing to produce documents. The other is for defying a subpoena for testimony.

CAMEROTA: So this indictment comes just ahead of the committee's first public prime-time hearings next Thursday. Lawmakers say they will reveal unseen material, and this will be the first time the American public will know what this investigation has found so far.

CNN senior justice correspondent Evan Perez is live from outside the district court. CNN congressional correspondent Ryan Nobles is on Capitol Hill, and CNN legal analyst Elliot Williams is also with us.

OK, so, Evan, explain this indictment and what happens next for Navarro.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, we're expecting that Peter Navarro is going to appear before a judge in the coming minutes here at the courthouse in D.C. behind me.

He's facing two counts, one for failing to turn over documents to the January 6 Committee and a second count for failing to appear for a deposition. Now, Navarro was referred by the committee, by Congress for prosecution just a couple of months ago, along with Dan Scavino, another Trump adviser.

You will notice that this indictment is only against Peter Navarro. That's because the Justice Department has been looking at this. And in the case of Navarro, they have decided that he simply has less protections as his status -- for his status as an adviser to the former president. As you noted, he was arrested early today by the FBI. Under normal circumstances, these types of cases, the FBI allows you to show up and turn yourself in. That's not how this went down today. He was arrested by the FBI. And he's now in custody here at the courthouse behind me.

Another thing that's interesting about this is that Navarro really saw this coming. You could tell. In the last few days, he decided to show up in court here and filed a lawsuit. He was representing himself. He was saying that he was essentially being unjustly prosecuted by the Justice Department, called the committee a kangaroo court.

And so he was trying to file a lawsuit to try to prevent what happened today from happening. One of the things he was complaining about was the fact that the FBI knocked on his door early in the morning to serve that subpoena.

So I'm sure that the way things went down today for Peter Navarro is not exactly how he wanted it to go down.

BLACKWELL: Evan Perez battling that screeching siren there for the reporting.

(CROSSTALK)

BLACKWELL: Ryan, let's go to you now on Capitol Hill, a little quieter there.

So this is happening just days before we're expecting these prime-time hearings from the January 6 Committee revealing what they have learned in their investigation. But remind us what the committee wants to learn from Navarro.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the big thing about Peter Navarro was, he was one of the principal architects of this attempt to subvert the will of the voters and prevent the certification of the election results.

And he was pretty bold in his declarations to that fact. In fact, he wrote a book about it. And he had hatched this plan called the Green Bay Sweep, which involved standing in the way of the certification of election results at the state legislative level in a number of Midwest states that were key to Joe Biden's victory.

And the committee wanted to ask him about that. They wanted to ask specifically what role the former president played in encouraging this, the role that it played in terms of his position as a taxpayer- funded member of the Trump administration, and what interactions he had with the Trump campaign and these other ancillary Republican groups that were supporting this effort to undermine the election results, including the group that was kind of headlined by the former Mayor of New York City Rudy Giuliani.

But it's important to point out here, Victor, the fact that we have gotten to this stage makes it very unlikely that the committee will ever get any of the information specifically from Navarro that they're looking for. I mean, he was so defiant in his unwillingness to cooperate with their subpoena right from the very beginning.

And it seems pretty clear that the committee wants to use him as an example here, that their subpoenas carry a great deal of weight, and, if you defy those subpoenas, there will be consequences, including consequences that could end you up in jail, which is a distinct possibility if the Justice Department is successful in prosecuting Navarro.

[14:05:01]

The problem for the committee, though, is that this is going to take time. Steve Bannon hasn't even been in a courtroom yet to hear his case. So it'll be some time before this even gets a court hearing. Likely, it may not happen until after the committee wraps up their investigation.

So they pretty much have settled on the idea they're not going to get the information from Navarro. What we could learn when these hearings start next week is how they have gotten that information from other sources, because they have cast a wide net as part of this investigation.

CAMEROTA: So, Elliot, tell us how significant this is. And will Navarro end up in jail?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, it's hard to tell.

Look, it's very significant, Alisyn, because consider that all of the opportunities a witness has to come in and comply and testify. And they lay this out in the indictment. Number one, the committee sent a letter to Navarro asking for documents and testimony. Number two, he didn't supply the documents, and they reached out to him again.

Number three, there were e-mails from the committee to him, there were letters and so on. If you reach this point, it is profoundly significant, because most witnesses at some point either negotiate the terms of an appearance or they actually end up coming in.

And when someone thumbs their nose at the authority of Congress and Congress' ability to issue subpoenas, just as Ryan said, it can come with very serious consequences.

Now, look, the evidence is pretty clear on this. And it's important, as Evan noted at the beginning. Dan Scavino, deputy White House chief of staff, is in a very different position here, having at least attempted to comply with the committee and having a different relationship with the White House.

But the evidence here for Peter Navarro is quite explicit. He chose not to come in. He wrote a book about his misdeeds. He's -- so it's hard to see how he has many -- much of a defense here. It's just going to take some time. But whether he pleads or is brought to trial, this is far stronger than some of the other -- as a case, as a contempt case, than some of the other folks in this orbit would get.

BLACKWELL: Ryan, let me come back to you. And they are looking for this wealth of information from Peter

Navarro. But he's been on television, on podcasts, on radio shows. You say wrote the book.

I want to play what he said. This was January 5 of this year, one day shy of the insurrection one year marker.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER NAVARRO, FORMER DIRECTOR, WHITE HOUSE OFFICE OF TRADE AND MANUFACTURING POLICY: The plan was simply this. We had over 100 congressmen and senators on Capitol Hill ready to implement the sweep.

We were going to challenge the results of the election in the six battleground states. These were the places where we believed that, if the votes were sent back to those battleground states and looked at again, that there would be enough concern amongst the legislatures that most or all of those states would decertify the election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: He has been telling his story. How much do they really even need from him if he's spreading it out like this?

NOBLES: Well, I think what's important, Victor, is the difference between Navarro as an agent and all of this and whether or not he had compliance from some of the most important people in the White House, including the former president himself.

Donald Trump has shown over the course of his career, his business career and his political career, to find that layer of separation between those committing the crimes and he himself, even if he may benefit from those crimes.

And in a situation like this, one of the things that you see the committee attempting to try and find a link to is a specific connection between the people that were trying to undermine the election results and Trump himself.

Now, of course, Trump was saying very publicly that he believed that there was fraud, that it needed to be investigated, et cetera, et cetera. But what the committee wants to demonstrate is that there was something a lot more nefarious here, that perhaps, A, they knew that their claims of fraud were not based in any kind of fact, and they continued down this path anyway, or that, B, they were doing everything they could to undermine this process for the express purpose of causing chaos.

And that ultimately is what led to January 6. So Navarro is a player that was involved in both the administration itself, had a close relationship, a close personal relationship with Donald Trump himself. So when he spouts off publicly about all the things that he was talking about, the question is, how much did Trump and his closest associates know about these plans and how involved were they?

BLACKWELL: All right, listen, Peter Navarro is due in court in just a few minutes. We, of course, will watch that and bring you up to date on what happens there.

But for now, we're thanking Ryan Nobles, Evan Perez, and Elliot Williams. Thank you all.

CAMEROTA: All right, meanwhile, President Biden said today he is being constantly briefed on congressional negotiations to pass gun reform, and he will do what he can to bring about -- quote -- "real progress."

In a rare move, he gave a prime time address to put pressure on Republicans to -- quote -- "do something" about the gun violence epidemic in America.

BLACKWELL: The president proposed a ban on assault weapons or raising the minimum age to buy one to 21.

[14:10:00]

His frustration was on display as talks again appear to be on a road to nowhere.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My God, the fact that the majority of the Senate Republicans don't want any of these proposals even to be debated or come up for a vote, I find unconscionable.

We can't fail the American people again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Unsurprisingly, Republicans are pushing back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What's wrong with raising the age for semiautomatic rifles?

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): It's unconstitutional. Even the Ninth Circuit just said it was unconstitutional.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: All right, let's talk about this.

We have Rina Shah. She's a Republican strategist and senior adviser to the Republican Women for Progress. And Jason Villalba is the CEO of the Texas Hispanic Policy Foundation. He's a former Republican member of the Texas House of Representatives. And he's written a new op-ed in which he accuses Texas Republicans of being feckless about gun violence.

So, Jason, let's start there.

Why the cowardice in Texas to do anything? JASON VILLALBA, CEO, TEXAS HISPANIC POLICY FOUNDATION: Well, it's very difficult anywhere as an elected official to defy the NRA and to defy the party when it comes to these kinds of initiatives.

As a member of the Texas legislature, I tried on a number of occasions to introduce and to support commonsense gun reform, things like what the president talked about last night, raise the age to 21, provides for background checks, even licensing.

In Texas, during the time that I was there, we went the opposite direction, and, without any restrictions whatsoever, people could access this high-powered weaponry. But when I defied that, when I went against that, the effect was immediate, not only from my own party, but from the NRA and from various gun lobbyists.

And so, immediately, I'm attacked. Immediately, money flows into the coffers of people that would oppose me in a primary. And I was drummed out of the party for this kind of transgression.

So while I recognize that these kinds of initiatives make sense to most people who are watching today, if you're an elected official in a red state, and you defy the NRA or your local association, it would be very difficult in an election cycle for you.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

Rina, to you.

So then, considering what Jason said and wrote as context, what do you make of this request, not an order from Governor Abbott, as he has for other conservative priorities, but this request from the legislature for a special session to meet on school safety, mental health, social media, police training, and firearm safety? You think that's just for show?

RINA SHAH, FOUNDER, REPUBLICAN WOMAN FOR PROGRESS: Well, this is an extraordinary moment. And I have worked in government and politics for nearly two decades.

But before all of that, I'm an American mom. And I can say this, that despite what happens in state legislatures, there's been good news in places like Florida. But we still see our federal lawmakers refuse to act and take on certain reforms that don't infringe on -- infringe on personal liberties in the way in which right-wing media is making it out to seem.

There is no large conspiracy in order for Democrats to come and take away your stuff. We need to push back on that rhetoric as sensible people. There are reasonable Republicans like me across the country coast to coast who have felt how horrific this gun violence has permeated our daily lives.

And we no longer will stay silent. We know that there's some action that our federal lawmakers can take, but it's time for them to stand up for reasonable, practical reforms that so many Republicans around the country support. CAMEROTA: Jason, it's really interesting to hear your experience of

being in the Texas state legislature and then being drummed out, as you say, of the Republican Party and being deprived money, and that full-court press against you for trying to propose common sense.

Why are Republicans so afraid -- or so beholden, let me say, of the NRA.

VILLALBA: Well, the NRA has a great sway over not only elected officials, but the people that vote in Republican Party primaries.

Remember, in a state like Texas, owning a gun, a rifle or handgun, is part of in -- our history. It's our -- it's in our DNA. We're very independent people. And make no mistake, I'm a strong supporter of the Second Amendment. It's the commonsense reforms that we hear about from the president last night and from others that always vexed me.

I couldn't -- I was confounded why we couldn't have simple protective measures, for example, over the age of 21. If you look at what happened across the country in the last decade, particularly in Texas, the people that were perpetrating these crimes were 18, 19. And they were having access to these weapons.

And so why not raise the rate to 21? That's not in the Constitution. There's no restriction against that. But what happens is, if you support that, immediately, you're characterized as someone who is against the Second Amendment at all, and then you hear the rhetoric like, he's trying to take away our guns or he's going to limit our ability to access guns.

[14:15:04]

And that's, of course, not true, but that's the rhetoric that is used. And it works in Republican Party primary politics, particularly in red states like Texas.

BLACKWELL: Rina, you brought up the example of Florida.

After Parkland, the Republican governor and Republican legislature made progress on gun reform there. Is this a moment where that is not even possible in Oklahoma, where we saw the Tulsa shooting, of course, in Texas?

SHAH: Anything is possible right now, because, again, practical folks across the country understand that we can no longer sit by and reflect on how these things are happening.

We have the data to show us why these things are happening, how people are getting same-day access to weapons that belong in the hands of the military, instead of civilians. And, look, I get it. Conservatives across the country don't want bans, right?

But they can understand that there are things we can do to keep these things out -- these guns out of the hands of people, such as the NRA put it, with dangerous behavioral issues. OK, so let's get down to the common denominator here. They're all able

to access these weapons of war. We have got to put a stop to that. So that's where Republicans ought to come in. And don't send form letters. Republicans, if you're listening to me. Don't send those to your federal lawmakers.

Share with them the personal stories, one like I have. When my daughter was going to kindergarten, I wouldn't get her light-up she wanted. I feared because of years before I had heard after Sandy Hook that children were being denied light-up shoes by their parents because they were afraid of being spotted during an attack.

So this is the -- this is the issue here. As a mom, my heart hurts for all these cities, but I realize that it's no longer time to sit by and hope that these lawmakers can do the right thing. We need to put the pressure on them. And the good news is that slowly, but surely, the NRA and the GOP are no longer having a choke hold on one another. And that's happening in real time. We do see that.

So we need to encourage that to continue.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

All right, we will see if these talks at the federal and state level, if they go anywhere.

Rina Shah, Jason Villalba, thank you.

CAMEROTA: Well, today's jobs report surprised some economists, but is it enough to tamp down fears of a recession?

BLACKWELL: Well, Elon Musk is the latest business owner now to warn of some trouble ahead for the economy.

How the president is responding to his warning -- next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:21:48]

BLACKWELL: The U.S. jobs market is almost back to its pre-pandemic levels.

U.S. employers added 390,000 jobs in May. That's down from April, but higher than expected. And the unemployment rate held steady at 3.6 percent. Now, many economists consider that to be full employment.

But recession red flags are still flying.

CAMEROTA: The Federal Reserve's in the process of raising interest rates to try to tame inflation. And, this morning, President Biden argued the labor market will have a positive impact on inflation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: And there is no denying that high prices, particularly around gasoline and food, are a real problem for people.

But there is every reason for the American people to feel confident that we'll meet these challenges. Because of the enormous progress we've made on the economy, the Americans can tackle inflation from a position of strength. Still a problem, but we can tackle it from a position of strength.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: CNN business correspondent Rahel Solomon joins us now.

Rahel, great to see you.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: So what stood out to you from this jobs report?

Look, I think the report today has been described sort of as a Goldilocks report, not too hot, not too cold, sort of just right in the middle. So the 390,000 jobs added, that top-line number, that's actually the lowest we have seen in 12 months.

It's a sign of some easing, some cooling in the economy. And I think when you look sort of under the hood and that some of the details about where we're seeing jobs, it was broad-based. About 70 percent of industries for the Labor Department that they were hiring.

You look at industries like leisure and hospitality adding about 84,000 jobs to the economy, professional and business services adding about 75,000 jobs, and transportation 47,000.

Guys, that's -- those are the truckers, the truckers. We have been dealing with a trucker shortage. So to see 47,000 jobs being added in that industry is a good sign.

And so when, I spoke to ADP chief economist Nela Richardson this morning, she said this report should be a good sign. The Federal Reserve and President Biden should be pleased with this. Of course, we have since heard from President Biden, and it seemed like he was pleased.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

So, and you said, the lowest monthly job number gain in a year, but in the context of inflation, that might actually be some pretty good news. Explain why.

SOLOMON: Yes, so we have a chart that might help explain it.

BLACKWELL: Love a chart.

(LAUGHTER)

SOLOMON: So, all right, so the issue right now is that the job market is so hot. There are about two open jobs for every one person looking for a job, so about 2-1. When you have that sort of imbalance, workers can demand higher pay, which is not necessarily a bad thing, right? The issue, however, is that it's not keeping up with inflation. One of the tools the Fed has to lower inflation is raising interest rates, which, of course, makes everything more expensive.

So that's sort of the intersection between the Labor Department and inflation. Nela Richardson from the ADP, she put it this way. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NELA RICHARDSON, CHIEF ECONOMIST, ADP: Right now, we're seeing wages, actually real wages not keep up with inflation. And so what we really want is not wages to moderate. We want inflation to moderate, so that the growth we're seeing actually helps people.

Right now, that wage growth is being overcome by inflation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLOMON: And, guys, just to sort of drive that point home even further, wage growth, according to this jobs report today, was about 5.2 percent yearly, which you think is a good thing.

[14:25:08]

But when you compare that to inflation, which last reading was 8.1 percent, pretty much anything people are seeing additionally is being eaten by inflation. That's why the Fed is saying that, more than anything, fighting inflation is their top priority. It eats away at wage growth.

BLACKWELL: All right, Rahel Solomon, thank you.

CAMEROTA: Good to see you.

All right, chief economist of Moody's Analytics, Mark Zandi, is with us now.

Mark, good to have you back.

Your headline from today's jobs report?

MARK ZANDI, CHIEF ECONOMIST, MOODY'S ANALYTICS: It was good.

The job market is strong. A lot of jobs are being created. But the job growth is moderating. And I think, as the previous conversation held, that's a good thing, because we need the economy, the job creation numbers to slow to stabilize unemployment, to ensure that inflation does not become a bigger problem.

So I thought it was a good report all around.

CAMEROTA: Why aren't wages keeping up with inflation if it's such a hot market for employees right now? ZANDI: Well, I think the surge in inflation is due to a number of shocks to the economy, so the pandemic and the effect on global supply chains.

You can see that in vehicle prices and lots of other -- prices for lots of other products. And the Russian invasion of Ukraine, which has caused oil prices to go skyward, and we're paying record prices at the gasoline pump, diesel prices are up, and that's driving up food costs. So you see this surge in inflation due to these shocks to the economy.

Now, workers are getting some compensation for that, but not all of it. But the thinking is -- and I think it's right -- that as these shocks abate, as the pandemic winds down, as the worst of the fallout from the Russian invasion fades behind us, well, those inflation numbers will come back in and fall below the rate of wage growth.

So you were talking about real wage growth. The difference between nominal wages, actual wages and inflation, that's negative. But that should turn positive as we move to this time next year.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

Mark, you can't really identify a trend out of one report, but are there any indications here that there is maybe some sustainable economic cooling that the administration and economists are looking for in this report?

ZANDI: Yes, sure.

So, if you look at job growth over the past several months, it's averaging about 400,000, which is really strong, really good. But that's down from the average monthly job growth in the preceding year, which is about 550,000, 560,000 per month.

So that is a definitive slowing in job growth. And there's other signs. I mean, just listening to CEOs and other businesspeople, they're starting to think, hey, we need to pull back here a little bit and not hired quite as aggressively.

And so you get the sense that we are going to see somewhat slower job creation numbers going forward.

And, again, that's what we need, because if we continue to create jobs at this pace, unemployment will continue to fall, we will go past full employment, and then we will overheat. The inflationary problems will become more of a deeper-seated problem.

So we do need to see job growth slow. And I -- there are signs of that have already starting to happen.

BLACKWELL: All right, Mark Zandi, thank you.

ZANDI: Yes, sure. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Now to Ukraine. It's been 100 days of death and destruction there, as Ukrainians desperately try to hold onto their country. Ahead, where the fighting stands today and what lies ahead.

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