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Ex-Trump Adviser Peter Navarro Indicted For Contempt Of Congress; Interview With Rep. Rosa DeLauro (D-CT); Former Wisconsin Judge Killed In "Targeted" Attack At Home; Doctors Speak Out Against Gun Violence After Recent Shootings; Biden Calls For Gun Reform; U.K. Celebrates Queen Elizabeth's 70 Years On Throne. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired June 04, 2022 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:16]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer was on a hit list along with Wisconsin Governor, Tony Evers, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. Another example of anti-government grievances coming about with real violence attached to them.

Someone ran out of Judge Roemer's home and called 9-1-1. That person reporting that someone had broken inside and fired off two rounds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This does appear to be a targeted Act and the individual who is the suspect appears to have had other targets as well. It appears to be related to the judicial system.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Students and teachers will not be returning to Robb Elementary.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Incident Commander did not have radio communication and I don't know as to why.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's very hard to believe that with his own people on the ground right there, he couldn't get a more accurate account of what happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those rainfall totals have been staggering, 11 inches Miami.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Miami-Dade Fire Rescue used a high rescue vehicle to help people stuck in their homes and cars.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody's here to celebrate the Queen. It really as a momentous occasion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a party in London, and yes, it's going to be something that people talk about for years to come.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

A former Wisconsin Judge is dead in what is being called a targeted attack against government officials. A tactical team found Judge John Roemer fatally shot Friday in his home and the suspect with an apparently self-inflicted gunshot wound.

Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer's office confirms that she was on the suspect's hit list, and sources say the Wisconsin Governor and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell were also on that list.

CNN's Whitney Wild joins me now. So what more do we know about this gunman -- Whitney.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela right now, we know the gunman's name, we are also now trying to pour through Court records to try to get some sense of what might have led up to this, but at this point, we know that again, officials are saying, this was a targeted attack. This all began Friday morning, 6:30 when someone ran out of John Roemer's home called 9-1-1 and said that there was an armed man and that that person had fired two shots.

At the time, police quickly responded to the scene, they tried to negotiate with the suspect, but those negotiations broke down. And so at 10:15, tactical teams finally made entry into that home where as Pamela, you had mentioned, that's where they found Judge John Roemer dead inside as well as that 56-year-old suspect with a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

Officials again, saying this was a targeted attack, and as we look at this greater threat landscape, Pamela, the real risk here is that this is an example of violence bubbling up to the surface. We have learned from Federal officials for months that there is a real concern among law enforcement that people are going to take these anti-government sentiments and use them as justification to carry out acts of targeted violence.

And the reality here is that this Judge represents a highly visible, but soft target, and that means that there's just not a lot of security around some of these people who are working in government. And again, this is the real major concern that Federal officials have been warning about as they look at this greater threat landscape.

So right now, we know the gunman's name, it is Douglas K. Uhde. He is 56 years old, and we are pouring through Court records to find out what else we can learn.

BROWN: All right, keep us posted, Whitney. Thank you.

And joining me now is Juliette Kayyem. She is a national security intelligence and terrorism analyst for CNN.

So Juliette, you tweeted yesterday: "A former Judge in Wisconsin was assassinated by a militia member who had a political hitless that included the Governor, pay attention. There are no lone wolves."

Now officials as we know, and we just heard from Whitney there, they have not released much information about this gunman. But what is your take on this?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: So it's a confusing series of let's just say facts or what we know now. We know that the law enforcement is said he has been a member or has

or is a member of a militia. We also know that he has what is an assassination list, I mean, it's just as clear as that which includes political and judicial figures, some we know, like Governor Whitmer, who have admitted it, others like this Judge, who most of us have never heard of before.

And the third piece, which is interesting is that they're saying that it's related to a judicial proceeding. We don't know what that judicial proceeding involves the militia man, or if it involves something more generic, he doesn't like some political case that came out of the judiciary and targeted the Judge first.

So that's the specifics of this case, but the larger issue which Whitney was rightfully saying is that you have a threat environment that has been warning of this kind of behavior, that the extension of politics is now violence, right, in other words, our inability to resolve politics in the way that a democracy should resolve politics is extending into violence.

[18:05:13]

KAYYEM: And it is noteworthy that they are saying that he is part of a militia and that the list was political figures. I mean, you know, it doesn't get more obvious than that in terms of an assassination list.

BROWN: Yes, it certainly doesn't, and there were reports of the Milwaukee media that Judge Roemer was zip tied to a chair. What do you make of that?

KAYYEM: Yes, so this is very similar -- the case against Governor Whitmer fell apart because of questions about whether the FBI had lured them into it, but this idea that death -- that the shot alone is not enough, that there has to be some torture or some, you know, basically some something that is performative.

That's what a lot of these are and this is what I write about a lot in terms of there are no lone wolves that these killings are performative whether it's in social media or with a militia group, and that something like this is very similar, or I would say, consistent with that notion that that mere shooting, which I hate to put it that way, but that there are some play out of something that we're seeing in some of these cases, and this was similar, although the case fell apart to the allegations, or at least, what was planned for Governor Whitmer earlier, it wasn't just death. It was a trial. It was a hostage taking.

And we've seen this in other cases, as well as the radicalism of these groups is now very focused on political figures and they are playing it out. I mean, we've been warning about this. It's been part of the environment for a while.

BROWN: Yes. Playing out the sick fantasies. Juliette, thank you. Appreciate it.

KAYYEM: Thank you, Pam. BROWN: Well, Michigan's Governor's Office released this statement

about the incident, quote: "Yesterday, our office was notified by law enforcement officials that Governor Whitmer's name appeared on the Wisconsin gunman's list. While the news reports are deeply troubling, we will not comment further on an ongoing criminal investigation. Governor Whitmer has just demonstrated repeatedly that she is tough and she will not be bullied or intimidated from doing her job and working across the aisle to get things done for the people of Michigan."

And turning now to the investigation into the January 6th attack on the Capitol, former Trump White House adviser, Peter Navarro says he wants to represent himself after a Federal grand jury indicted him for contempt of Congress.

Navarro railed in Court against what he called the hardball tactics of his arrest yesterday at an airport, and it came on the day of a possible setback for the House Committee investigating the insurrection. CNN crime and justice reporter, Katelyn Polantz joins me now.

So if you would, help us understand these charges for Navarro and the fact that two other key figures will not face charges from the Justice Department.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: That's right, Pam. So Congress right now, the House January 6 Select Committee they are two for four on their criminal referrals to the Justice Department, they're getting to people charged, two people will not be charged. So there was Steve Bannon and now Peter Navarro. He was a Trade Adviser in the Trump White House. They are both facing contempt charges for failing to turn over documents to the Committee and for refusing to sit for testimony.

There are two others who are not charged, closer advisers to Trump, Mark Meadows and Dan Scavino. They will not be charged with crimes.

But Navarro, he believed that he didn't need to engage with the Committee. He certainly didn't engage with the Committee. And he was out there while he was refusing to talk to the Committee or help them in any way, he was out there writing a book, going on television, giving speeches about Donald Trump and this effort to block the election, the ultimate result of the election. He called it the Green Bay sweep.

And so now that that has played out in public, and Navarro never sat for testimony and won't be sitting for testimony, especially as the House goes into public hearings, he is facing charges just like Steve Bannon, they both will head to trial and are obviously very unlikely to testify at this point.

BROWN: All right, Katelyn Polantz. Thank you so much, Katelyn.

Well, claims of betrayal and fear at the very pinnacle of U.S. leadership. "The New York Times" is reporting that on the day before the attack on the Capitol, the Secret Service was alerted to a potential security threat against Vice President Pence. The person raising the alarm, the man on the right, Pence's then Chief of Staff, Marc Short.

According to "The Times," he feared President Trump would turn against Pence. Well, Trump did turn against Pence publicly when Pence refused to illegally interfere with the election results.

The next day, Trump supporters built a mock gallows outside the Capitol and some people who breached the building infamously called for Pence's life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CROWD chanting "Hang Mike Pence.")

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Last night, CNN spoke with a reporter who broke this troubling story.

[18:10:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: This is an extraordinary moment to think that there's a Chief of Staff to a sitting Vice President so concerned about the potential threat that is being created by a pressure campaign led and encouraged by the President who picked this Vice President. It is it is jarring and it just takes a minute to absorb.

Marc Short had a conversation, according to sources with Tim Giebels, the lead Secret Service agent saying exactly what you just said that the President was going to turn on Pence and that, you know, they might have a security risk.

Short, as I understand it, did not have a sense of what that threat could look like. I don't believe based on my reporting, that he envisioned, you know, what we saw on January 6th, the way we saw it, but what he did realize is that the former President had supporters who were very reactive to him, who basically acted, you know, responded to things he would say, and he could see, you know, one person, two people, three people, you know, several people doing something that could be problematic safety-wise for the Vice President just based on this pressure that the former President was exerting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And we should note, the Secret Service is pushing back against the report saying it, quote, "Had no knowledge of that conversation according to people with firsthand knowledge. At the time, there was never any physical threat of any kind communicated about the Vice President."

Well, I spoke to Marc Short about six weeks after the attack on the Capitol. And at that time, he did not speak of security concerns leading up to the Stop the Steal rally at the Capitol. Here is some of that conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Walk us through what was going on behind the scenes. Let's start first with the days before January 6th, the push for Pence to overturn the election results and any concerns about violent protests on that day?

MARC SHORT, FORMER MIKE PENCE CHIEF OF STAFF: No, I don't think that there are concerns about violent protests leading into it. I do think that, look, we've shared pretty openly that the Vice President had a strong, I think, viewpoint as to what his role was that day, and I think that has been supported by many constitutional scholars, and I think unfortunately, the President was getting bad advice.

I did not say he bears responsibility for the riots. I think that the President's language was encouraging people to march to the Capitol, and I think there was a lot of frustration for a lot of people, including us who have concerns about the election in 2020.

And I think there's a lot of tragedies that happened on January 6th, a lot of tragedies, most particularly those who lost life and the violence that occurred and the attack on the Capitol.

But in some ways, Pamela, I think the American people were deprived the right to actually hear a debate about those improprieties that happened in the November election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Of course, because of the riot there at the Capitol Building, the January 6 Committee has its own questions to ask.

CNN has learned that Short likely will be called to testify at Thursday's televised congressional hearing.

And up next on this Saturday, Congresswoman Rosa DeLauro, out for accountability as she leads the investigation into the baby formula shortage. She joins me live in just a moment.

Meantime, in London, Queen Elizabeth showered in celebration from a parade to a fly by in a star-studded party at Buckingham Palace.

And then our high-flying Harry Enten on a trapeze high above Manhattan as he tries to answer an age old question about money and happiness.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:17:31]

BROWN: Well, Abbott announced today that it has restarted production of specialty formulas at the Michigan plant at the center of a recall. The first batches could hit the shelves by June 20th. And earlier this week, a government watchdog launched a review into

the FDA's response to the recall that set off a nationwide shortage. I want to bring in Democratic Congresswoman Rosa DeLauro. She revealed the Abbott plant whistleblower report and has been pushing for answers and accountability from very early on in this crisis.

Congresswoman, thank you for coming on the show.

REP. ROSA DELAURO (D-CT): Thank you. I'm delighted to be with you.

BROWN: So I want to go to this sound from President Biden earlier about this week when he discussed this issue. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think anyone anticipated the impact of the shutdown of one facility, in the Abbott facility, and it was accurately shut down because it was -- the formula was questioned in terms of its purity.

And so once we learned of the extent of it, and how broad it was, we kicked everything into gear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The Abbott plant is responsible for, I believe, it is 43 percent of production of formula that was shut down in February, President Biden said he didn't understand how big of an effect the plant shut down and subsequent recalls would have until April. How could the White House have not anticipated this before April? Your reaction?

REP. ROSA DELAURO (D-CT): Well, understand, Pamela that you see there right now is no requirement for the company to make known that there is a problem, whether it is a contaminated product or anything else that was going wrong. They don't have to report that now, which is something that I'm and the legislation that I introduced yesterday that makes it a requirement that they must report in real time what is happening.

So, you know, I understand what the President is saying. I would have thought as well as to be very honest with you that the Food and Drug Administration, the FDA, would have alerted the White House to what was happening here and I've done that, but beforehand.

So I look at two things. I look at a shortage of the supply and I look at the safety and I look at that a manufacturer who are -- really it is contemptible to sell a product knowingly that is contaminated and then a government agency that drags its feet for four months before this product was recalled, and neither the company nor the agency had a contingency plan to address, as you pointed out, Abbott has 43 percent of the infant formula market and that has got to stop.

[18:20:33]

BROWN: And as you well know, Abbott has defended itself saying that the formula has been tested and that this specific bacteria was not found in the formula, but we know from the FDA records that the bacteria was found in the surface and the environment of this Abbott lab.

You have been investigating this issue and the FDA's response. The FDA received the whistleblower letter in October -- there's a timeline on everyone's screen, if you want to see this -- then didn't interview the whistleblower until December and didn't inspect the Abbott facility in Michigan until the very end of January.

What have you learned about why the FDA was so slow to act on this crisis?

DELAURO: Well, that's why when I first heard about this and reading the newspaper accounts, what I immediately called for was an Inspector General's investigation, which is underway that then will let us know about what the FDA didn't do -- what they did or didn't do, what the manufacturer did -- so we can look to see where the culpability is.

And my view is, let us proceed with this investigation and let the chips fall where they may because people have to be accountable.

You know, it is interesting, let me just step back on the timeline that you laid out. In September of last year, there had been suspicions in an audit, that there was a potential for contamination, then you get the whistleblower's report, and when I call for the Inspector General's investigation, I had not seen the whistleblower's report, then I received a copy of it.

And it defies imagination when you're looking at falsification of records on testing, actually giving false information to the Food and Drug Administration about what they found, a lack of traceability on a product, a lack of cleanliness. So that report, as you pointed out, went in October, and the FDA sat on it until December.

BROWN: So on that note, at the time the FDA was led by Dr. Janet Woodcock, she was the former acting Commissioner of FDA. She received the whistleblower complaint. Have you ever talked to her about why officials failed to act on it for months?

I mean, I've read through the whistleblower report and it is really alarming. And you know, these are of course allegations, and as you said, there is an investigation going on, but you would think one would read this report and want to act on it immediately because this is what people are feeding their infants, their babies in America.

DELAURO: Right, and that's the heartbreak of this, is that parents are caught -- first of all, you've got the supply problem. It's not there. What do you feed your child? And you've had this experience, and then, you know, is it a safe product that I'm feeding my child?

And so the heartbreak of that and the wrenching, I've spoken to so many mothers who are at wit's end traveling all over the State of Connecticut, traveling all over wherever they are to get the product, in addition to being fearful of what they are, you know, feeding their infants. So it is remarkable, and it really is outrageous that the agency that

is charged -- the FDA is a regulatory agency, and you read this report and you don't believe you should investigate it immediately.

They have no answers to that. You asked, I have not spoken to Dr. Woodcock. I have spoken to Dr. Califf, and I'll just add this at this moment to you, Pamela. That is a real problem at the FDA.

Food safety is a second class citizen. The FDA deals with drugs, with tobacco and it is my view that we either need to have a single food agency and I've introduced legislation on that floor, or we need to have a Deputy Commissioner there whose only responsibility is food safety, with the authority that they can carry out. It has the responsibility and it's someone who has relevant food, nutrition and food safety experience and have the credentials. They don't have that at the moment.

BROWN: So you have put forth several bills to address this issue. I think a lot of us were surprised frankly that only a few companies have the market share of formula production. And if one shuts down, you have this ripple effect and obviously compounded by other issues.

[18:25:16]

BROWN: But I'm curious because, you know, in some of the legislation, it basically gives more resources to the FDA, but the FDA, as you've just laid out has shown miscommunication, it has shown a mishandling of this crisis.

So what gives you the confidence that giving them more power, giving more to the FDA and would actually make a difference?

DELAURO: Well, look, let me step back for a second, because I think, fundamentally, there are two or three things that need to get done. First of all, we shouldn't have a consolidated industry where there are only four major producers of infant formula in the United States, that has to be broken open. There needs to be competition, because when one of the players is out of the field, and somebody who has 43 percent of the market, you get the shortage that you have.

FDA needs to be restructured, as I pointed out, they need -- we need to have a component that is just food safety handled by someone who understands it and has the credentials and the relevant experience to deal with it.

In the meantime, the issue is one of supply in the short term, which meant that we have to go in to Europe to get product to bring in. The FDA at the moment is understaffed. They have always been understaffed in terms of inspection capability and with regard to infant formula, they need to review all of the applications.

They have nine people to do that for a domestic market and an international market. So my view is just a short-term view is while we're trying to get product in as quickly as we can, that we must have personnel that can deal with the applications, do the inspections so that we know we have the product and that it is safe. In the meantime, as I said the FDA needs to be restructured where it

comes to food safety.

BROWN: All right, Congresswoman DeLauro, we will continue to cover this very important issue. Thank you so much.

DELAURO: Thank you. Take care. Have a great weekend.

BROWN: You, too.

Well, you're in the CNN NEWSROOM. Doctors in emergency rooms across the country are getting all too familiar with treating gunshot wounds. Coming up, I'll talk to a doctor with a unique insight into the gun violence epidemic. He's been shot himself.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:32:10]

BROWN: Well, back now to the disturbing news out of Wisconsin. Police say the murder of a former judge in his home was a targeted killing and the suspect had a hit list of other Wisconsin government officials. That list included Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.

The Judge's death is the latest in the nation's escalating gun violence epidemic. According to the gun violence archive, more than 18,000 Americans have been killed by gunfire this year. This week, President Biden renewed his calls for gun reform with several new measures, including raising the minimum age to buy an assault weapon if it can't be banned.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Look, I know some folks will say 18-year-old can serve in the military and fire those weapons. But that's with training and supervision by the best trained experts in the world. Don't tell me raising the age won't make a difference.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Among those adding their voices to the debate are gun reform - on gun reform, I should say, are health care professionals. Dr. Joseph Sakran is a trauma surgeon at Johns Hopkins Hospital and he is also a gunshot survivor and he works to save victims in the critical moments after their shot. Dr. Sakran, thank you for coming back on the show.

You were just 17 when you were shot. Tell us what happened and how that experience shaped your perspective on this issue.

DR. JOSEPH SAKRAN, TRAUMA SURGEON, GUNSHOT SURVIVOR: Yes. Thanks so much, Pamela, for having me again. Look, I come to this conversation as someone who is a survivor, at the age of 17 I was nearly killed after being shot in the throat with a 30 caliber bullet. And that experience inspired me to become a trauma surgeon, so I can give other people that same second chance that I was given. And every day, I come face-to-face with the horrific reality of gun

violence in our country. We as healthcare professionals have had to deliver babies to mothers who are dead from gun violence. We've had to operate on children that are barely clinging to life because of guns not being safely stored.

And like my public health colleagues across the country and like so many Americans, I am frankly sick and tired of the death and destruction we continue to see. We need to do something, Pamela.

BROWN: You see it firsthand.

SAKRAN: In America ...

BROWN: You see it firsthand in your job in the emergency room.

SAKRAN: Correct.

BROWN: I mean, do you go into work and say, okay, I'm probably going to see victims of gun violence today, because that's what you see so often.

SAKRAN: Well, that's the thing. Look, we often talk about gun violence when we have these mass shootings that happen across the country. But the reality is, is that every day in cities like Baltimore, and Chicago, and Philadelphia, we have young brown and black men ...

[18:35:02]

... we have high school students, we have pregnant women that are being slaughtered on our streets. So this is not a random thing that periodically happens and that's why it's a public health crisis. And you think about what's happened over the past couple of weeks and the tragedy that we continue to see, as we wake up, day after day in America, so the slaughter of children in schools with military-style assault rifles, absolutely unacceptable. None of us should accept this.

BROWN: Yes. I just - my - I still cannot wrap my head around it, wrap my heart around what happened at that elementary school in Uvalde, Texas. And in these mass shootings, so often, the weapon is an AR-15 style rifle. You know firsthand the damage an assault style weapon like that does to a human body.

SAKRAN: Yes. I mean, look, when you look at comparing an assault rifle versus a handgun, there's a couple of differences. The first is it's substantially higher speed and velocity and there's two important factors that happen, right? The first is you're going to have a cavity that's created called a permanent cavity. That's essentially the path of the bullet. But the second is what we call this temporary cavity.

And Pamela, if you can imagine a boat that's traveling across a body of water, right, that boat creates a wake behind it. The faster the bullet goes, the bigger the wake. That's very similar to what's happening in these bullets that are being fired from these assault rifles that they create this significant amount of energy that is transmitted to the tissue around it. And that cavitation causes significant tissue destruction. It's absolutely devastating and you can imagine what that would do in a little baby and a child ...

BROWN: Yes.

SAKRAN: ... where it's just absolutely horrifying, the type of dismemberment, the type of damage that you're going to see is just horrific. And that's evidenced by the fact by the way that parents in Uvalde had to submit DNA tests, because probably, some of their children were not recognizable, just think about that for a second. The fact that parents were asked for these DNA tests and they couldn't identify their own kids.

BROWN: Yes. And that is just beyond - I can't even go there, I don't want to start crying on Oregon as a mother with two young kids and having to do that, but I also think about the kids that were injured. That's a high number of kids that were sent to the hospital with injuries from the shooting and first of all, that's incredible that they weren't killed based on what you just described, but also what their future looks like now after having been injured in this way.

SAKRAN: Yes, absolutely. I mean, talk about not just recovering from the physical injuries, but recovering from the mental and the emotional trauma. You know, there's something that we talk about these adverse childhood experiences, and the long term impact that those experiences are going to have on these kids for the rest of their lives.

And by the way, not just these kids, there are school children all across the country, that are terrified of what's happening in America. In 2018, there was an American Psychological Association survey that was done and 75 percent of people aged 15 to 21, said that mass shootings were a significant source of stress.

BROWN: Yes.

SAKRAN: And I just want to say one more thing, which is so critical, it is so important to separate this from what people are trying to push as violence being a mental health issue. The majority of people with a serious mental illness are more likely to be victims rather than perpetrators and we need to make that clear.

BROWN: That's a really important point. We've tried to emphasize that on this show as well. Dr. Joseph Sakran, thank you so much. We'll be right back.

SAKRAN: Thanks so much, Pam.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:43:56]

BROWN: After the deadly mass shootings in Uvalde and Buffalo, President Biden and Democrats are calling for new gun regulations. Many Republicans are offering alternative ideas. CNN Senior Data Reporter Harry Enten joins us now to run the number. So Harry, why do Democrats and Republicans seem further apart on guns than ever?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPOERTER: Because they are. They are. I mean, that's the answer, but it's really that Republicans have run essentially to the right on gun control, right? We can look at the polling and see that quite well, essentially the Pew Research Center back in 2000 asked this question, do you favor gun rights over gun control, they're only 38 percent of Republicans said that at the time, 20 percent of Democrats compare that to just a few years ago in 2019.

Democrats basically the same, right? Republicans that percentage doubled from 38 percent to 80 percent, that favor gun rights over gun control. And you can even see that right now. Chris Jacobs who's an upstate congressman from the Buffalo area, he was basically run out of town basically said I'm not going to run for re election because so many Republicans were so angry with him for daring to suggest that we should have tighter gun control.

[18:45:05]

So on this issue it's Republicans who have moved, not Democrats.

BROWN: Well, abortion is another issue with a wide gap along party lines. What reaction have you seen to the possibility that the Supreme Court will overturn Roe v. Wade?

ENTEN: Backlash. Backlash, that's the word I would use. Gallup asked this question, would you consider yourself pro choice or pro life? There are a lot of different ways to ask about abortion rights, but this is a pretty interesting question.

And last year, what you saw was basically a split in this country, right, 49 percent said they were pro choice, 47 percent said they were pro life, within the margin of error, look at the question now, this was just - this was asked last month after, of course, that leak of that potential Supreme Court ruling that may come later this month.

And look at this, pro-choice now the vast majority position, 55 percent of pro-life just 39 percent and here's what I'll note. That is the highest percentage who said they were pro-choice this century. You have to go back over 25 years to find a higher percentage of Americans who said they were pro choice. If, in fact, the Supreme Court ends Roe v. Wade, I might suggest that there could be a significant backlash if this poll has any - gives us any indication of what may happen.

BROWN: All right. So let's talk about prices at the pump, because that is something that affects so many of us day-to-day, can you tell us about the new data you have about this surge of the pump?

ENTEN: I mean, I could tell you what every American is feeling who owns a car and that is it's ...

BROWN: Mm-hm. Well, we already know, right?

ENTEN: ... yes, we already know. But this helps put it in this historical context, right? I'm not only interested in absolute levels, I'm interested in changes, because those are the things that voters usually most noticed and this is essentially the yearly change, in average gas prices at this point in midterm cycle going back the last 28 years.

Fifty-seven percent increase, there's nothing anywhere close to that in the last 28 years in the midterm cycle. This is literally off the charts. And I couldn't even fit all the data into this table. You could go back since the mid '70s. You won't find anything like this at this point in a midterm cycle.

Heck, I ran the yearly data. There's nothing like this basically in the last century. This is off the charts. And if you're Democrats, you can exactly like this, because at the end of the day, most voters vote on their pocket. Look, and if they're spending more money at the gas tank to fill up, that's not necessarily good for the incumbent party.

BROWN: Yes. As simple as that. You're right. So speaking of gas prices, how might they play a role in whether people go on vacation this summer?

ENTEN: Well, I hope to go on vacation. I haven't gone on a vacation, god, in 10 years, I don't think - I don't know.

BROWN: Harry, get on it.

ENTEN: I got to get on it. The girlfriend is going to try and take me on vacation. She's already planning it out. We're going to try and do something. We'll see if we can do it, but ...

BROWN: We'll let you off the hook for your weekend segment when you go on vacation.

ENTEN: ... thank you, I appreciate it. That - maybe one weekend, although I like being with you, Pam. So look, if you look at the polling from The Washington Post, you plan a vacation away from home this summer, 40 percent say they definitely will, 32 percent say they probably will. That's a clear majority, right, that 72 percent.

But this little nugget, 61 percent of Americans say gas prices will be a major factor in their vacation plans. I would not be surprised that fewer Americans take vacations this summer than wanted to especially as we're trying to get out of this COVID pandemic because of the gas prices. It just seems to me that Americans can't seem to catch a break. All we need is one break and we just can't seem to catch it at this point.

BROWN: Yes, just give us one, right? Just give us one.

ENTEN: One. One, I'm not asking for that much.

BROWN: Okay, so this wasn't really a vacation, But you took an unusual trip, shall we say, on to a trapeze. Take a look at this. What was this all about, Harry?

ENTEN: This was about making a fool of myself on national television right now. No, this was about a podcast that I do, Margins or Error, you can get it on iTunes, Stitch, wherever you get your podcasts. And essentially, the focus of the podcast was money and happiness.

And what this was about was that we learned in the podcast that you should buy experiences, you should not buy objects, you should buy experiences. So the idea was in fact to buy an experience go out through trapeze. I didn't really enjoy it. I think I actually cursed while I was up there. But I got to share this moment with you and that I do enjoy very, very much.

BROWN: That's right. And everyone watching all of our viewers, we all shared it with you.

ENTEN: There you go.

BROWN: I love that, that little takeaway. It's all about the experiences.

ENTEN: Yes, that's right.

BROWN: That experience of novelty. I like that.

ENTEN: Exactly.

BROWN: Harry Enten, thank you. We'll be right back.

ENTEN: Bye, Pam.

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[18:53:48]

BROWN: Day three of Queen Elizabeth four-day Platinum Jubilee is just wrapping up and it celebrates her historic 70 years on the throne. CNN Contributor, Sally Bedell Smith, joins me now she's also the author of Elizabeth the Queen. Hi, Sally. Just how big of an event is this?

SALLY BEDELL SMITH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: H, Pamela. Oh, tonight was absolutely spectacular. But every day has had something special day. Day one was the real ancient traditions, ancient being over 200 years old dripping the color and the queen on the balcony with the working royals and the wonderful exchanges she had with Louie. And tonight she did - she surprised everybody by doing an absolutely hilarious sketch with Paddington Bear in Buckingham Palace.

And it showed how much joy she is taking out of this celebration. And as Prince Charles said tonight in his incredibly eloquent tribute to her what really gets my mother up in the morning is all about you. And he's spoke of her great tradition of service and resilience and it's - it is unparalleled.

[18:55:02]

There will never be another Platinum Jubilee, 70 years is extraordinary and it has been 70 years of glad service. And I mean, walking around the streets of London, it's astonishing to see how many people are here, and how much fun they're having all ages. It's about as multicultural and collection of people as you could see and it was reflected in the performances tonight.

William sort of did an incredible start here talking about the environment after David Attenborough. And you got a sense that the monarchy is nothing staid, but something that is dynamic and forward looking and really caring about crucial issues of the day. And the leader in that, of course, is the Queen.

BROWN: Yes.

SMITH: Prince Philip was and Prince Charles made a wonderful tribute to him for his groundbreaking in a modern approach to environmentalism, so there were a lot of sort of resonant notes that were struck in addition to all the wonderful entertainment, and we're going to have more tomorrow with a great festival on the (inaudible) so it is historic, it is - it has - everybody is whipped up, not only in London, but I think there's something like, I don't know, 10s of thousands of street parties going on around the country. (Inaudible) ...

BROWN: Yes. It sounds like a fun.

SMITH: So it's ...

BROWN: And a nice break from all the ...

SMITH: ... and people are really seizing the day.

BROWN: Yes, a nice break from all the doom and gloom in the world to be celebrating like this, incredible 70 years. Sally Bedell Smith, thank you. We'll be right back.

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