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January 6 Committee Set to Hold Public Hearings; Will Congress Pass Gun Safety Legislation?. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired June 06, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:02]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: This quick programming note. Join some of the biggest stars as they lift their voices for "Juneteenth: A Global Celebration For Freedom." That's live Sunday June 19 at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, only here on CNN.

Thanks for your time today on INSIDE POLITICS. We will see you back here this time tomorrow.

Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello, and thanks for being here. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

It is a make-or-break week on Capitol Hill to fix the nation heartbroken by more gun violence. Senators are back in Washington after the nation endured 10 mass shootings over one weekend, people gunned down at a graduation party, at a nightclub, at a funeral, during a birthday night out in big cities, small towns in the Northeast, the Midwest, the South, the Southwest.

In all, at least 15 people were killed and 61 wounded. We are talking just this weekend. And the reality is, those numbers aren't out of the ordinary compared to prior weekends in America this year. Across the country, people are frightened and fed up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I myself was like hiding behind cars because the shots kept getting closer and closer.

ADRIENNE KIND, COUSIN OF SHOOTING VICTIM: We need justice. We need justice. And we need it because we need our kids to be safe in the community. We don't need -- we shouldn't have to walk around having to watch our backs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was almost asleep and heard numerous gunshots, 20 to 40, woke me up instantly.

MEGHAN FORD, WITNESS TO MASS SHOOTING: I don't need this in my backyard. Nobody needs it in their backyard. Like, I don't want to feel like I can't get home from work safe.

TIM KELLY, MAYOR OF CHATTANOOGA, TENNESSEE: Over the last 10 days, we have had, three killed here and something like 23 injured. So it's a terrible situation. We will do as mayors what we have to do to keep our people safe. But we could sure some help at the federal level.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: The stakes are higher. The pressure is greater. And after years of inaction, key senators from both sides of the aisle are now signaling a compromise could be possible.

We will bring you the latest on the state of play there in Washington.

But, first, let's take you to Philadelphia where a shoot-out left three dead and 11 injured.

Our Alexandra Field is there on scene for us.

Alexandra. I understand you're learning more about the shooting and the city's response.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Ana.

The district attorney here in Philadelphia is saying that some charges related to the shootings are expected later today. At the same time, we know that please continue to search for some of the people who were involved.

The city taking its own action to step up efforts to try and reduce gun violence and enhance safety, as people continue to be on edge. There was an added police presence, the mayor even implementing a curfew in some parts of downtown Philadelphia overnight, that, of course, following this mass shooting event that happened late Saturday night into the early hours of Sunday.

Investigators saying there were hundreds of people out in the street when gunfire broke out following an altercation. They say five different guns were involved. That's what they believe. They say they think there were several shooters.

They say among the three people who were killed that one is one of the suspected gunman, 11 other people injured. Local officials now speaking out, saying it is time for lawmakers in Washington to step up and do more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY KRASNER, PHILADELPHIA DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We have come to the point where any legislator who is accepting donations directly or indirectly from the gun lobby, any legislator who has a high rating with the National Rifle Association, any legislator who is not willing to put the lives of innocent bystanders, of women and children and young adults above their political future belongs out of office.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FIELD: Ana, that shooting happening here in really a busy and popular nightlife area of Philadelphia, again, so many people out at that time.

We're learning a little bit more about the victims. Among them, a 22- year-old teacher was killed. He was out here celebrating his birthday, Ana.

CABRERA: Alexandra Field, another day in America. Thank you.

Let's get to Capitol Hill now, where bipartisan gun reform talks are under way. And both parties are signaling a deal could be within reach.

Jessica Dean is at the Capitol for us.

Jessica, where do things stand right now and what does any potential compromise look like at this point?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Ana, again, we are focused on the Senate. That is where this matters, because we know things can get through the House when it comes to gun safety laws.

But the Senate is where you have that 60-vote filibuster. So, with that in mind, we know that these bipartisan talks are continuing in earnest right now. We heard from Senator Chris Murphy, a Democrat from Connecticut, over the weekend. He said he's never been so optimistic that this could potentially happen.

But he also cautions they're not there yet. And everyone here remains quite wide-open-eyed, understanding they still have a long way to go. But they are continuing to talk. We know that Republicans and Democrats continue discussing all of this over the weekend.

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And what they have got on the table right now, what they're working with are a series of things they think they could get through and get put in place. And those could include red flag laws, the expansion and strengthening of background checks, safe storage, expansion of funds for mental health funding, and also for school security.

So, those are some of the things that they think they could get put together in a bill like this, Ana, and that it could potentially get 60 votes out of the Senate and have enough support to get going. Murphy has said that he doesn't want perfect to be the enemy of the good, but he also wants to make sure whatever they're putting together is something that will actually be impactful, Ana.

CABRERA: Right. And I can't help but notice some of the key proposals Democrats want aren't even on that list you just ticked through, things like raising the minimum purchase age to 21 or banning assault- style weapons.

But we just heard from a crucial swing vote in the Senate, Democrat Joe Manchin. What's he saying?

DEAN: So he's saying he's in support of that. I will let you listen to this exchange with my colleague Manu Raju. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): We know we can do something that would have prevented this, raising the age.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: But some Republicans say raising the age is unconstitutional. What's your response to that?

MANCHIN: Why do we have driver's license? Why is there a certain age for everything that we do in this society? It's always been accepted.

So I don't see how this one thing can be any different than other things we do.

RAJU: Do you think that there should be a ban on assault weapons, ban on AR-15s?

MANCHIN: Talking about bans, I wouldn't have a problem on looking at some of these things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: And, look, he's certainly one of the most conservative Democrats in the Senate, Ana, but the fact remains, they need 60. That means they need 10 Republicans, and that is just simply not happening.

We have heard from people in these negotiations that have said, look, there's not going to be an assault weapons ban that can get through the Senate. That is simply the facts right now.

What this comes down to, in essence is, what are Republicans willing to accept? What are 10 Republicans willing to accept? And that is going to be likely the essence of this deal if it comes together, Ana.

CABRERA: And Senator Chris Murphy, who is one of the key negotiators right now, saying they need to get something together in the next five days, that the pressure is on to really, time is of the essence, sort of move this thing.

Thank you very much, Jessica Dean.

Let's bring in CNN counterterrorism analyst and former FBI senior intelligence adviser Phil Mudd.

Phil, these shootings this weekend, they ran the gamut, right? Hard to find any common threads, really, other than the obvious one, guns. What does that say to you about the problem when it seems to cross geographic lines, Democratic lines, it finds victims in almost every venue imaginable, from schools, to churches, to hospitals, to graduation parties, and more?

PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Well, let me try optimism for about 30 seconds, then shift to my normal personality, which would be a little bit more pessimism. If you look at optimism, some of the steps that the Senate -- and I

think the negotiations, Ana are quite serious -- some of the conversations are important. For example, we talked about raising the age from 18 to 21, red flag laws, which cops I have spoken with like.

That said, these are skirting the issue, if you look analytically at the United States vs. the rest of the world. One interesting statistic, 120 guns per 100 citizens in the United States, 120 to 100. Go to Europe. Let's just take France, for example, which has a much lower murder rate, 20 guns roughly for 100 citizens.

That's not about who gets a gun at age 21. That's not about mental health. That's not about AR-15s. That's about a culture that says more guns mean more killing. So if you're an optimist, go ahead with negotiations on the Hill. I'm not sure if we -- even if we pass those, Ana, that will have a huge impact on what happens in America.

CABRERA: And yet there's a lot of people who I think believe something is better than nothing.

MUDD: Yes.

CABRERA: If you could save one life or two lives, even if it's not everybody, or you could get more, it's still something. And, right now, that is a problem, right? It's hard to even get there.

Charleston, South Carolina, had a mass shooting last week, one of so many locations. The mayor of that city told "The Washington Post" that he thinks one factor here in the surge of gun violence is people are just quicker to whip out their guns right now. He calls it a lower barrier for pulling out a gun.

Do you see it that way? And what could be the solution?

MUDD: I do.

And this is where politicians are so important. You're talking about technical solutions here, those technical solutions, things like raising the age. But there's a cultural problem in this country that relates to violence. That violence includes everything from assault to use of a weapon and a murderer or a domestic incident.

That's a message that has to come from the top. The president in this case is a Democrat, obviously. You need Republicans to be telling people especially, let's be clear, young males in our society, that the use of violence against anyone is unacceptable.

[13:10:05]

I live in the country most of the time. I live on a farm, Ana. And there's a perception in the world that I live in that carrying a handgun around is somehow an indication of manhood.

I'd say, in the culture that I grew up in, that's not correct. And, certainly, in the places I had lived, places like Europe, that's not correct. The message to young men has to be, real men don't use guns to hurt people. It's not just a law. It's a culture.

CABRERA: There's also a law enforcement angle to this issue. And we have heard from some gun rights activists that the answer could be more good guys with guns, not less guns, more guns in the hands of good guys.

And we know two major police organizations have said that they want Congress to pass gun legislation. As it stands now, are police in some smaller communities outgunned by civilians? Are they having to change how they police because Americans are just armed to the teeth?

MUDD: Yes.

For example, there's been a conversation in this country about whether there should be less policing and more intervention by, let's say, mental health professionals. But if you go into a domestic situation where a husband and wife are arguing, the chance in this country, when I talk to cops about things they worry about, the chance in this country that a domestic dispute could go violent is very, very high.

You can't have mental health professionals deal with domestic disputes when somebody's got a handgun. So, not only are the cops outgunned, but if you give more people more guns, let's say you walk into a school where more people are armed.

How do the cops walking into that school know who the good guys are who are shooting and who the bad guys? How? So I think these conversations are interesting because they avoid the fundamental question. More guns, if you look around the globe, mean more killings, end, stop. That's the story.

CABRERA: I want to ask you about the Uvalde response specifically, considering all of the wrong information that authorities initially shared, and the district attorney now being tight-lipped.

Why haven't we seen a more thorough investigative report from officials there by now? What does that tell you?

MUDD: Boy, I would not issue one if I were them. And I'm a little bit surprised about the requests from politicians that more action be taken.

Let's cut to the chase. Local officials have asked the feds to come in -- that's the FBI, Department of Justice -- to investigate. That investigation will be complicated. It'll be 500 pages, and it will take time.

How can you go in if you're a local official and say either, I understand what the story is or I want to discipline somebody who's a local security professional who was at that scene before I get the report I requested from outside investigators at the Department of Justice? How do you act without the facts?

We have already seen how that works. Bad facts get out. The problem is, America is a microwave culture. We want answers now. We don't have them. CABRERA: Right.

MUDD: Give it a few months and 500 pages.

CABRERA: OK, well, at least you set the expectation for all of us in terms of why it's important to wait.

MUDD: Yes.

CABRERA: I know the families of the victims in particular are desperate for answers, desperate to at least understand what happened, like the rest of us, but them especially.

Thank you, Phil Mudd. I really appreciate your perspective.

MUDD: Thanks.

CABRERA: Thanks for your time.

And, today, the Uvalde community remembers the lives of two of the 19 children killed in Robb Elementary School. This morning, it was the funeral for 9-year-old Eliahna Amyah Garcia, and this afternoon is a visitation for 10-year-old Xavier Lopez. His funeral is tomorrow.

Nearly two weeks after the massacre, four victims are still in the hospital. One is a 10-year-old girl. She's in serious condition, according to University Health in San Antonio. And the grandmother of the shooter is also recovering there. We're told she is in good condition. Two adult patients also being treated in San Antonio are said to be in good condition as well. Their identities are not known.

What do they know? This week, we find out. The House committee investigating the Capitol insurrection lays out the facts in a prime- time hearing. We're already getting a -- quote -- "chilling" preview.

And will he stay or will he go? British Prime Minister Boris Johnson's job is in jeopardy, a no-confidence vote happening right now. How this could shake up world politics.

Plus, the potentially major finding in the fight against obesity. Participants in a trial lost as much as 20 percent of their body weight, 20 percent. We have got the details.

Stay right there.

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[13:19:46]

CABRERA: Five hundred days since the violent attack at the U.S. Capitol, a 10 month investigation, more than 1,000 witnesses interviewed or deposed, and more than 135,000 documents collected.

After all that, we will finally find out what the select committee investigating the January 6 insurrection has learned. The first public hearing takes place this Thursday in prime time. We're learning former President Trump is mobilizing his MAGA coalition. A GOP source says he is calling on his supporters to vigorously defend him and push back on the committee's findings.

Now, the vice chair of that panel, Republican Congressman -- Congresswoman Liz Cheney, offered this preview:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): I have not learned anything that has made me less concerned.

QUESTION: Well, what's made you more concerned?

CHENEY: Well, I think the extent, the expanse, how broad this multipronged effort was.

QUESTION: Was it a conspiracy?

CHENEY: I think certainly. I mean, look, if you look at the court filings, you look at...

QUESTION: But do you believe it was a conspiracy?

CHENEY: I do.

It is extremely broad. It's extremely well-organized. It's really chilling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:20:04]

CABRERA: Joining us now, CNN chief media correspondent and anchor of "RELIABLE SOURCES" Brian Stelter and CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams.

Guys, good to have you here.

Let me start with you, Elliot.

The committee plans to present previously unseen material. We will hear witness testimony, we know. What do you see as the most important gaps the committee can fill in through these hearings?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: A hundred and eighty-seven minutes, Ana, there's a big, big gap in the middle of the day where we have received testimony -- or at least have gotten reports of testimony, that the president was watching and aware of the things that were happening, but not speaking out, not taking the steps and even allegedly commenting favorably about the "Hang Mike Pence" chant.

We need to reconstruct the narrative of what happened that day. And more bigger picture than that, Ana, as people think about pandemics and war in Eastern Europe and school shootings, refocusing the American public's attention on exactly what Congresswoman Cheney was talking about right there, which was the sustained attack on American democracy that reached its peak on January 5.

And that's the main charge of the committee.

CABRERA: So, Brian, what are you learning about how this committee is going to lay out its findings for the American public with these hearings?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Well, they want it to be more of a show than a traditional stuffy congressional hearing, partly by putting this in prime time, when more people are at home and can choose to watch, and partly by enlisting the help of former ABC News president James Goldston, a source telling CNN that Goldston is helping to produce these hearings, thinking about how to organize the hearings, what to present when, what videos to show him in what order.

That's notable, because Goldston is a network professional. He's thought about this. He views it from the perspective of a television network. So, if these hearings are going to break through, if they're going to get people's attention in an age where you can just stream Netflix instead or HBO Max, if you want, then it may be helpful to have him behind the scenes guiding the committee.

CABRERA: Elliot, as a former federal prosecutor, you have been there. You have had to convince a jury.

In this case, though, to be credible, this committee, they can't come across as partisan. They can't overhype things, right? But they have to find a way to break through, as Brian mentioned, to get Americans to pay attention.

Is that a delicate dance?

WILLIAMS: It really is, because, at the end of the day, different than any jury I ever served, these are all elected officials, and they're bipartisan elected officials, Democrats and Republicans, that have different political interests here.

Part of the key is to convince Americans that this is not a partisan matter. And the seat of government that we all share was attacked that day. So, regardless of what someone might think of President Biden or Speaker Pelosi or anything else, this was an attack on America.

And to the extent that they can make that case clearly without appearing to have overreached, which is a term that folks are using now, that will be sort of what success or victory looks like for the committee.

CABRERA: We know some text messages from hosts over at FOX have become part of the evidence, like this text from Laura Ingraham to then-White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows.

This was during the insurrection, where she writes: "Mark, the president needs to tell people in the Capitol to go home. This is hurting all of us. He is destroying his legacy."

But what she and other FOX hosts were saying then, Brian, compared to what they're saying now is very different. Right now, they're calling this probe illegitimate. They're trying to mock the hearings, and these people, they have influence with a significant portion of the population.

So what do you know at this point about how FOX is going to be covering these hearings?

STELTER: Well, that most likely they will be trying to cover up these hearings.

So far, FOX has not officially commented on plans for Thursday night's prime-time hearing, but that's Tucker Carlson's hour. Carlson has promoted false flag conspiracy theories about 1/6. He created a documentary called "Patriot Purge" all full of conspiracy theories.

It's all very hard to imagine he's going to give up his time slot, his hour to run this hearing instead. And I think this is really important to understand, that this broken information environment we're in means that tens of millions of Americans will not be told that these hearings are important and necessary for the country. They will instead be told they are -- quote -- "wholly legitimate."

That's Tucker Carlson's phrase. Laura Ingraham likes to make a mockery of these. Donald Trump calls it all load of crap. So there's going to be a very loud right-wing media narrative against these hearings, not just your standard spin or talking points in the right, but an attempt to say this is completely illegitimate, you should ignore it, you shouldn't watch.

In other words, the cover-up continues.

CABRERA: Well, and I do want to point out, for those who've been paying very close attention to some of the evidence that's been coming out, I mean, we know that CNN anchors were part of the text message chains as well during the insurrection, trying to get information.

STELTER: Yes, texting as sources, saying, Mark Meadows, what's happening? What are you going to do? That's right.

CABRERA: Right.

STELTER: And so it's going to be interesting to see how much evidence the committee has that has not come out yet. I always think about that afternoon, Ana, when we were watching on live television. Most of the views were from far away. We saw big crowds. But if you were watching on TV, it might have looked more like a party than a riot.

And the truth inside, we didn't see until later. The truth inside, we didn't see until days or weeks later. We still don't know the truth about what happened in the White House that day.

(CROSSTALK)

[13:25:00]

STELTER: So there's a lot we never saw about January 6 that we might see for the first time this week.

Whether it breaks through to the FOX bubble, I highly doubt it will. But I think most of America at least has a chance that maybe hasn't been paying attention to tune in for the first time.

CABRERA: We know this is not a prosecutorial body, Elliot, this committee.

And so going back to that clip from Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney, when she was asked whether this attack amounted to a conspiracy, and, essentially, she says yes, and added extremely well- organized conspiracy, conspiracy is a criminal charge.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CABRERA: Given the committee can't prosecute, any risk of setting the bar too high here?

WILLIAMS: I don't think so.

the committee does have some power. They can, look, refer charges to the Justice Department right there. So -- and a court has already found that it's more likely than not that some crime was committed. So, number one, they can refer charges.

Number two, they can change their own rules or policies to make Congress safer and look at, was Congress sufficiently prepared that day? Number three, they can shift the public narrative. And, number four, at the end of the day, there's a political question here. And do you wish to see these people get elected to office again, which is something that in making the public aware of what went on that day, they can actually possibly affect elections in 2022 or 2024.

So there's a lot of different angles from which Congress can approach it. And it's not -- even though they can't be the ones prosecuting someone or sending them to jail, they still have a tremendous amount of power as a body.

CABRERA: Elliot Williams and Brian Stelter, thank you both so much.

STELTER: Thanks.

CABRERA: Appreciate it.

Is BoJo a no-go? British Prime Minister Boris Johnson might be out of a job, as a series of scandals spark a no-confidence vote from his own party. That vote is under way right now.

We are live on Downing Street next.

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