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Weekend Gun Violence; January 6 Committee Set to Hold Public Hearings; Boris Johnson Faces Confidence Vote. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired June 06, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Victor Blackwell. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM. Alisyn is off today.

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson is fighting for his political future right now. The prime minister's own Conservative Party is holding a no confidence vote this hour. If a simple majority -- we're talking 180 Conservative Parliament members -- vote against him, he's out as party leader and as prime minister.

Now, this is a secret ballot and the results are expected in the next couple of hours. Now, Johnson's been under scrutiny for flouting COVID restrictions. Here's how he was received at this weekend's platinum jubilee celebrations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BOOING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: You can certainly hear the boos there.

Earlier this year, police fined Johnson for attending his birthday party in 2020. That's when fellow Britons was stuck at home under lockdown.

CNN's Bianca Nobilo at 10 Downing Street. CNN European affairs commentator Dominic Thomas is in Berlin. And Yasmeen Serhan, staff writer for "The Atlantic," is in London.

Bianca, I'm going to start with you.

First, just lay out the process for us, and the likelihood that Boris Johnson can survive this.

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: OK, Victor, so it started with letters from 54 of Boris Johnson's own M.P.s to a certain committee that expressed they had no confidence in the prime minister. A threshold of 15 percent of Boris Johnson's party had to be met.

It could well have exceeded that number. Then, this evening, right now, his own M.P.s are voting whether or not they want Boris Johnson to remain on as prime minister or if they want to oust him. As you mentioned, he requires a simple majority to stay on, strictly

speaking, because even though he only needs 180 of his M.P.s to vote for him to remain prime minister and live in that building behind me, he will actually need more, decisively more, if he wants to continue with any semblance of political power and authority, because precedent suggests that all Conservative prime ministers who have faced the leadership contest, when they win, even if by a healthy margin, they're pretty much a lame-duck prime minister from there on out, so a lot riding on Boris Johnson today.

And I must say that the mood in Parliament of Tory M.P.s has become much more grim as the day goes on.It's certainly harder to predict now than at the beginning of the day that the prime minister will have a healthy showing in the vote tonight.

BLACKWELL: Dominic, you're up next.

The prime minister sent out this letter today to members of his party asking for their support in this vote. What's his case?

DOMINIC THOMAS, CNN EUROPEAN AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: I mean, this case is the one that he's made all along, Victor, is that he was able to deliver a substantial majority for his party and to get Brexit done.

But that was two-and-a-half years ago. And as time has gone on, I mean, Boris Johnson, really from the very beginning, he's sort of like the milk that you have in your refrigerator. It has an expiration date on it. And it's just a matter of time before you're going to throw it out before he gets too stale.

What's so interesting about him is that, all along, there have been ambiguity and controversy, and so on and so forth. And yet, he has been able to survive this. What we're seeing play out here now is that not only did he lie about the lockdown measures, which he was the lawmaker behind, but the Gray report has come out.

As you pointed out earlier, he was booed at the platinum royal celebrations. And his M.P.s are hearing from their constituents that they have had it with him. And so beyond providing kind of stability, beyond sort of continuing to work that line about winning a general election and satisfying that Brexiteer wing of his party, I think his arguments are running out and that members of his party are just now increasingly concerned about their own political futures and how this is playing out.

And even though a general election is not, in theory, at least scheduled for another two years, the time has clearly come for a very serious conversation at the party as to who will lead them into that in 24 months' time, if it doesn't happen before that, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Yasmeen, let's talk about not only the boos, but there's also this new poll out that shows six in 10 Britons say that Boris Johnson should be removed from power. How heavy is public influence on these members who are voting?

YASMEEN SERHAN, STAFF WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": It has a huge level of influence.

I mean, Dominic pointed out that a big part of the reason Boris Johnson was elected was principally because he promised to get Brexit done. Well, he's done that, but the other appeal among Tory M.P.s is that Boris Johnson was always seen as an election winner.

And, actually, the Conservative Party is facing two very important bi- elections at the end of this month. And poll suggests that they could lose both of them. So if the time comes that the Conservatives do lose or if they feel even now that Boris Johnson may not be the winner that they thought he was, that, I think, is going to wait pretty heavily. Do they want this man leading them into the next general election?

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BLACKWELL: Bianca, how much damage does the vote itself create, even if he survives the day, how wounded he will go into the next several months?

NOBILO: It's irreparable political damage for any prime minister to face a vote of confidence in themselves.

And, in fact, even today, if you consider the amount of his own members of Parliament who have come out criticizing him, his policies, his character, the way that he steers the government, the hypocrisy over the Partygate scandal, and the visceral nature of that attack that people felt when they saw that the prime minister and those in government in the buildings behind me partied while their loved ones may have been in hospital or they were unable to see those who were dying.

So it definitely does huge amounts of damage. And one of the reasons the prime minister is in such a perilous position this evening and one which is so difficult to recover from is the fact that it isn't one faction or one wing of the party which is against him here. The discontent is broad, and it's disparate.

You have those on the far right of his party, and then those on the more progressive wing, who ordinarily don't agree on much, agreeing that they need a new leader to take them forward to the next election. And as Yasmeen was saying, the support for Boris Johnson in Parliament from his own M.P.s has always been largely transactional, quite shallow.

They supported him because they believe that he'd win them elections. But now all the polls suggest that the party itself is a lot more popular than the prime minister. And when you're in that situation as prime minister, you typically do not have long.

BLACKWELL: Dominic, is this exclusively about Partygate and those locked down celebrations? Or is it about much more than that?

THOMAS: I think it's about much more than that.

I think that, as we could say, this is the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. It's provided people with what they may see as legitimate opportunities to submit these letters to the 1922 Committee and to call for an internal vote of no confidence.

But I think that, really, let's put back the context. When Boris Johnson was elected, people were absolutely exhausted with all the elections, the ousting of leaders, the meaningful votes in Parliament. And he was simply able to, without really even campaigning, just simply presenting himself as this leader that would just simply get Brexit done and get people to the other side of that debacle, if one could say.

Now that we have moved on from that, and what we have effectively -- and, I mean, this is something just essentially -- Bianca just underscores is this transactional nature -- is that you have a party that is highly divided, that has so many factions, and yet at a moment in history when the opposition is also incredibly divided, enabling in a way these sorts of actions to take place.

And I think it's very hard to see, within that divided party, even, who might even take the Conservative Party forward into this next election, and that is, somewhat paradoxically, what invariably allows Boris Johnson to survive, arguably, this particular moment in history, and we will see how it unfolds tonight, Victor.

BLACKWELL: We are just a few hours away from finding out if Boris Johnson will be allowed to keep his job.

And I thank you, Dominic Thomas, Yasmeen Serhan, and Bianca Nobilo, for helping us understand it.

All right, now to America's gun violence epidemic. It feels like we do this every Monday. Well, let's now look over this past weekend. There were at least 10 mass shootings across this country, 15 people dead, 61 wounded. There was gunfire in the Northeast and the South and the Midwest. No region was spared here, starting in Chattanooga; 16 people were shot near a nightclub, two of them dead.

In Phoenix, a 14-year-old girl was killed at a strip mall, eight others also hit. Summerton, South Carolina, it was a graduation party where a shooter killed one, hit eight others. In Philadelphia, this packed, popular area, South Street, it was the backdrop to one of the deadliest incidents of the weekend, three people killed there, 11 more wounded.

CNN's Alexandra Field is in Philly with the latest now.

So, what are you learning about the shooters there and the victims?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There were three victims in the shooting. One is believed to be one of the suspected gunmen, actually, another, though, an educator who was out here on South Street celebrating his 22nd birthday.

This is a man who worked with second and sixth grade children. Police say he was among the hundreds of people who are out here in a busy nightlife area of Philadelphia when those shots started to ring out.

They say there was some kind of altercation and that several people then exchanged fire. They believe there were at least four weapons involved. Now, again, police are saying that they believe that one of the shooters was killed, but they continue to look for other suspects.

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That said, Philadelphia's district attorney has announced that there should be some charges related to the case later today, even as this investigation continues, local officials here really, really at a loss, saying that federal lawmakers must do more to help to curb the gun violence that is plaguing this city and so many around the country.

They are trying to take the steps that they can take. That meant stepping up some of the police presence in affected areas. It also, Victor, meant implementing a curfew overnight in parts of downtown Philadelphia.

BLACKWELL: Alexandra Field with the latest on the shootings there, thank you very much.

Let's bring in Ed Davis, served as Boston police commissioner, and criminology professor Adam Lankford of the University of Alabama. He has co-authored multiple studies on mass shootings, including this one in "The Journal of Criminology and Public Policy": "Why Have Public Mass Shootings Become More Deadly?"

Gentlemen, it's good to have you.

Let me start with you, Commissioner.

How much of what happened over the weekend is based on the calendar? We're getting into the summer months. And, historically, unfortunately, things become more violent. There are more shootings this time of year.

ED DAVIS, FORMER POLICE COMMISSIONER, BOSTON, MA: It's a very good point, Victor.

The summer months are the toughest for police in the United States, especially in urban areas. Mayor Menino, who I worked for, required that we put together a plan to anticipate violence in the summer. And that plan was usually finished by February or March and rolled out a little after that.

And it would be about jobs programs and stepped-up patrols and increased policing in areas, hot spot areas that we knew to be heavily populated with people who were carrying guns.

BLACKWELL: So, even with the calendar context, Professor, when you travel overseas, and you share your research with experts and audiences, who are just baffled by the American experience, this anomaly with gun violence, and they ask, why does this only happen here, what do you tell them?

ADAM LANKFORD, PROFESSOR OF CROMINOLOGY, UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA: Well, certainly, there are mass shooters who attack around the world. I guess one of the major studies I did found that the United States

has about 4.5 percent of the world's population, but we had about 30 percent of the world's public mass shooters. So we have basically like six times our proportionate share, if you looked at things per capita.

One of the major problems here is that despite the red flags and warning signs that mass shooters often exhibit, they're still able to get easy firearm access. So, when I look at some of these mass shooter cases, the red flags were so clear, and yet someone was able to walk into a store after deciding that they're going to commit mass murder, and still be handed a firearm over the counter.

I think, like, if that person was in Japan, pick the exact same person and put that person in a different culture with different gun control, we probably wouldn't see a mass shooting like we do here in the United States.

BLACKWELL: Professor, let me stay with you and ask you the question of that's published here in "The Journal of Criminology and Public Policy." Why have public mass shootings become more deadly?

These mass shootings where eight or more are killed, there are more of them over the last decade.

LANKFORD: Yes.

In fact, we measured it a bunch of different ways. If you look at, for example, the number of incidents in which 10 or more victims are killed or even 20 or more victims are killed, we have seen more of those since 2010 than we saw in the previous 40 years.

Of course, the answer is complex. But one of the things I would point to is that the number of fame-seeking and attention-seeking mass shooters has doubled since 2010. The number of copycat mass shooters has doubled since 2010. And one of the things that really just stood out in terms of the data is that we have many mass shooters now who are not just angry and shooting some people at work or at school, but they're actually specifically trying to kill a large number of victims.

They're openly admitting it. Sometimes, they're even competing with each other for what they call high scores or for records, as gross as it sounds. So we have these shooters who are really just trying to kill large numbers of victims and, far too often, of course, succeeding.

BLACKWELL: Commissioner, much of, not all, but much of the conversation that's happening in Congress and the statehouses across the country focuses on the long guns, the semiautomatic rifles, the AR-15-style guns.

And the vast majority of shootings, even those over the weekend, do not involve those types of long guns. So are you hearing anything in the conversations that would impact the types of shootings we saw over the weekend? DAVIS: That's an important point again, Victor. I was at the major city chiefs meeting in San Francisco this past week and this is happening all over the country.

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I have been to a number of these mass shootings like we saw on South Street in Philadelphia. And I can tell you that there's an important distinction between what happened in Texas and what happened in Philadelphia.

The Texas case can certainly be affected by things that the professor mentioned, which is tighter controls on someone buying guns immediately and red flag laws and tying databases into gun purchases. That clearly has to happen. But what happened in Philadelphia is a case of a number of criminals who bumped into each other and got into a fight and started shooting at each other.

They didn't go there to shoot mass numbers of people. This was a beef that manifested itself in extreme violence. And they don't care who's standing behind the person they're trying to shoot. They're not being careful. They're just spraying the area with bullets. Then you can have a mass shooting incident.

But the solution to that requires effective policing, prevention, identification of people who are carrying guns, and, frankly, more aggressive police activity in neighborhoods where we know those shootings are happening.

And with very liberal DAs in some of these cities like Philadelphia, the police have backed off a little bit on that. The bad guys know that. They figured that out immediately. And if there's no downside to carrying a gun, a fistfight can turn into a shooting in a second.

BLACKWELL: All right, Commissioner Davis, Professor Lankford, I appreciate your insight and perspective. Thank you.

So, the House select committee investigating the insurrection is about to go prime time. Some members have described the evidence that will be presented as chilling.

And former President Trump, meantime, is mobilizing his loyalists to come to his defense during the hearings. We will have the latest details next.

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BLACKWELL: The House committee investigating the January 6 insurrection is televising a hearing prime time on Thursday.

Vice Chairwoman Liz Cheney says there will be new revelations about former President Trump and his efforts to stay in office last year after he lost reelection. We're learning new details also about that day before these hearings

even kick off. Mike Pence's chief of staff, Marc Short, warned the Secret Service before January 6 about the security risks that the vice president faced due to his rift with former President Trump.

CNN congressional correspondent Ryan Nobles is here.

So what else are the Democrats previewing that we might learn starting on Thursday?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Victor, this is really about connecting the dots, right?

The committee has said for some time that they believe that there is a direct link between the efforts to undermine the results of the 2020 election and the violence and chaos that took place here on January 6. And what they hope to do is demonstrate that those that were involved in undermining those results were part of what led to everything that happened here on January 6.

Listen to what Jamie Raskin, a member of the select committee, said earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Yes, the committee has found evidence of concerted planning and premeditated activity. The idea that all of this was just a rowdy demonstration, that spontaneously got a little bit out of control is absurd.

People are going to have to make judgments themselves about the relative role that different people played. But I think that Donald Trump and the White House were at the center of these events. That's the only way really of making sense of them all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: And the committee is going to have to have a lot of attention. This is a prime-time hearing that's going to take place at 8:00. There could be as many as six or seven more hearings after that.

And it's largely going to be a controlled message. Even though there are Republicans on the panel, these Republicans and Democrats are working in unison. That means there's going to be no opposition voices during these hearings. That has the former President Donald Trump a little concerned.

He's asked some of his allies to provide air cover for him during this period of time. He wants people out there defending him. We're told here on Capitol Hill, it will be Kevin McCarthy, the House minority leader, leading those efforts, along with Elise Stefanik, who's the conference chair, but also, Victor, some outside groups like Matt Schlapp and the Conservative Political Action Committee and also the RNC, that could be supporting Donald Trump and trying to sow doubt in different things about the committee's work. It's important to keep in mind, though, Victor, there are some

Republicans who would rather not talking about January 6 at all. They don't necessarily believe bringing this back out into the public helps their chances of winning the midterms in the fall -- Victor.

BLACKWELL: Defend or distract, the decision that some Republicans will have to make.

Ryan Nobles for us there with the latest reporting on Capitol Hill, thank you.

CNN political commentator Scott Jennings is with us now, former special assistant to President George W. Bush and a columnist for "USA Today."

Scott, good to see you again.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hey, Victor.

BLACKWELL: So let's start here. Do you think Republicans should watch the hearings?

JENNINGS: Well, I think if Congress thinks it's important enough to put on television, I think Republicans should pay attention to it.

Whether it has an impact on public opinion, though, I'm dubious. I mean, I think a lot of Republicans have decided that it's a partisan witch-hunt, an extension of the Russia impeachment, so on and so forth. And I think a lot of Democrats have decided Donald Trump is at the center of this and is morally and practically responsible for it.

And so what I am looking forward to knowing is whether this committee has unearthed any details that would, frankly, change that opinion. Would it cause a Republican to change your opinion? Would it cause a Democrat to change their opinion?

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I'm dubious that it will happen. But, yes, I think if Congress thinks they want to put it on TV, the American people ought to pay attention to it.

BLACKWELL: You just heard what congressman Raskin said there, a member the 1/6 Committee.

What, though, if you think -- if your question is if this will change any minds, what's the threshold, do you believe, that the committee would have to make to get people to reconsider potentially the former president's role?

JENNINGS: Well, I think that what I'm looking forward to hearing is whether they have uncovered any evidence of central planning out of the White House, right?

I mean, I agree that it's obviously -- it's obvious this wasn't a spontaneous demonstration. I mean, you don't show up wearing tactical gear and carrying zip-tie handcuffs if you hadn't thought about it a little bit.

And so I want to hear where the planning took place. I want to hear what conversations were had. And I'd like to hear a little bit about, when the demonstration and the riot was unfolding, what was exactly going on in the White House? What were the conversations at that time? Why were they slow to deal with it?

To me, that's quite interesting. So I'd like to hear quite a bit about that, frankly. And, as you know, Victor, we have we have had some conversations about this. I think this was one of the darkest days in American history. It was terrible. It was pitiful. It was embarrassing for our country. And I think the details are important here.

But, for me, it's pretty obvious what happened. I mean, obviously, people were whipped into a frenzy, whipped into a mob. They took action they shouldn't have taken and now folks need to be held accountable.

BLACKWELL: Yes. And we will start to get some of those answers from the committee 8:00 p.m. on Thursday.

Let me turn now to who former President Trump expect will be one of his biggest defenders, and that is the House minority leader, Kevin McCarthy. Former President Trump has now endorsed his reelection bid.

First, let's get a refresher on what Kevin McCarthy said about former President Trump. This is in the days after the insurrection.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): A discussion I would have with him is that I think this will pass, and it would be my recommendation that he should resign.

I have had it with this guy. What he did is unacceptable. Nobody can defend that, and nobody should defend it.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: So now former President Trump called McCarthy an outstanding representative for the people of California and a strong and fearless leader of the House Republican Conference.

Why do you think Trump is giving McCarthy this pass or this forgiveness that so many other people who have come into the former president's crosshairs do not get?

JENNINGS: Well, I think Kevin McCarthy, when this audio came out, obviously reached out to President Trump and has been sort of leading the opposition to the Democrats on virtually everything, opposition to the January 6 Committee, opposition to the attacks on Donald Trump.

So there is something to be said, I guess, for McCarthy's strategy here, that it appears to have worked, that he has not fallen out of favor with the former president. And he needs him, because it's obvious that Republicans are most likely to win the House in November. And so he would need to maintain Trump's support to achieve his dream

of becoming speaker. And he's done what he had to do. You can agree with it or not agree with it, but he's done what he had to do.

And, as a political strategy, it's working at this moment. We will see if it continues to work. I think he will be the next speaker. And I think it'll be with Donald Trump's support. Obviously, there's runway between now and November.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

JENNINGS: But, in Washington, as you know, Victor, people often do what they got to do to get what they want. And that's what Kevin McCarthy is doing.

BLACKWELL: And we will see if the endorsement lasts. I mean, look at Mo Brooks, who had the endorsement and then didn't.

Scott Jennings, thanks so much. Good to see.

JENNINGS: Thanks, Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right, Russia ramps up its airstrikes across Ukraine, targeting the nation's infrastructure.

They also have a new warning for the United States -- next.

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