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Trump Mobilizing MAGA Allies To Defend Him Ahead Of January 6 Hearings; Cheney: Evidence Will Show Trump's Ongoing Threat To Democracy; GOP Lawmakers In Ohio Pass Bill To Arm Teachers With Guns; Proud Boys Leaders Charged With Seditious Conspiracy Over January 6. Aired 3:30-4p ET
Aired June 06, 2022 - 15:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:30:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): ... we are not in a situation where former President Trump has expressed any sense of remorse about what happened. We're in fact, at a situation where he continues to use even more extreme language, frankly, than the language that caused the attack.
And so, people must pay attention. People must watch and they must understand how easily our Democratic system can unravel if we don't defend it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: But CNN has new reporting that former President Trump is developing a full on counter programming blitz, even discussing a possible war room where they could strategize a defense in realtime as the hearings air.
Harry Litman is a former U.S. attorney and a legal affairs columnist for the L.A. Times. Gloria Borger is CNN's chief political analyst. Good to see you both. Gloria, let me start with you.
This decision that members will have to make, either to defend the president or distract the country from the hearings. Is there a consensus on what members of the party want to do, think is best?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think they would all like to distract from the hearings because they know the hearings don't bode well for their potential presidential candidate, Donald Trump.
But it's difficult for them to do that. This committee has spent an awful lot of time trying to weave a narrative that is really damaging that says effectively that the president of the United States was the central person in an effort to overthrow a free and fair election.
And what the Republicans are going to try and do is say that's not true, this a witch hunt, and try and turn the public's attention to the issues that work for them, which are, of course, the economy, immigration, and on and on.
And that's going to be a little bit difficult for them to do, particularly if there's new information that comes out of this committee at the start. The public isn't focused on January 6th anymore.
I'll give you that. But the committee has to try to get them focused back on January 6th to see how the democracy was almost lost.
BLACKWELL: And we're hearing from some members of the committee, Harry, ahead of this first primetime hearing. I want you to listen to a member here. Congressman Jamie Raskin talking about what they have discovered and what the American people will hear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Yes, the committee has found evidence of concerted planning and premeditated activity. The idea that all of this was just a rowdy demonstration that spontaneously got a little bit out of control is absurd.
People are going to have to make judgments themselves about the relative role that different people played, but I think that Donald Trump and the White House were at the center of these events. That's the only way really of making sense of them all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: Congressman Raskin there says that people will have to make their own decision. What does the committee have to do? What is their mission statement for this first hearing at least on Thursday?
HARRY LITMAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: I mean, two things in there, and some tension with one another.
They do intend to draw not simply January 6th but a whole kind of through line going back to November, shortly after the election, and encompassing three or four different separate schemes.
A scheme for alternate electors, a scheme to strong arm state officials, and January 6th itself is just the final role there.
But they are very focused on telling a comprehensive minute by minute story, yet the expectations are also very high for them to be feeding out new bomb shells, and they say they'll have some but there's a risk, I think, for them, that the American public come to believe that, well, unless there are -- there's a bomb shell every half hour, then it's not a successful hearing.
Their main mission is really for history and the American public to tell a comprehensive story, not a, you know, totally show fireworks every minute.
BLACKWELL: Gloria, we had Scott Jennings on and I asked about his expectations, what would it take to convince some of those, maybe not the diehards but those who aren't fully invested in the work of the committee.
Do you think they need a smoking gun, a Trump organized this, Trump called these people here to do this specifically moment to change minds?
BORGER: I think they need a series of moments, and I think they need a series of eyewitnesses who were there, who can speak directly to what the president was saying and what the president was doing on January 6th.
[15:35:00]
You know, we talk a lot about -- and Jamie Gangel has done a brilliant job of putting out all these e-mails to the White House, tell the president to stop this, tell the president to stop this, tell him he's got to end this right now.
What was the president doing at that time? What was he thinking? And, you know, I interviewed Bennie Thompson, the chairman of the committee, and he said to me Donald Trump was the puppet master.
Let's see what he means by that. I think the public will really pay attention if they determine that, yes, January 6th was a bad thing, and the president of the United States not only was encouraging it at the outset, but then when it got out of hand, did nothing to stop it.
I think that will make people think. Will they change their mind, if they're die hard Trump fans, probably not. But will the country look at January 6th in a very different way potentially, and will history? Yes.
BLACKWELL: Important night for the committee, important night for the country. Gloria Borger, Harry Litman, thank you.
All right, a new bill in Ohio will allow school teachers in the state to bring guns to school. One of the bill's cosponsors joins us live, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLACKWELL: In Ohio, Republican lawmakers passed a bill that gives school boards the power to allow teachers to carry guns in the classroom with 24 hours training. Teacher and Police Unions in Ohio have come out against this new law, the proposed law.
The bill is headed to Republican Governor Mike DeWine's desk, and he has signaled he will sign it into law.
Theresa Gaborone is a Republican Senator in Ohio, cosponsor of this new bill to arm teachers. Senator, thank you for being with me.
I want to start with the Ohio Federation of Teachers opposing this, the Ohio Education Association opposing it.
The Fraternal Order of Police in Ohio says that the training is woefully insufficient. They oppose it as well. If the teachers don't want it, if the police say it's a bad idea, why
is it? Why do you think it's right for schools in Ohio?
THERESA GAVARONE (R) OHIO STATE SENATOR: Well, thank you for having me here today. I really appreciate it. This legislation is really important.
It's actually critical in making sure we're doing everything we can to protect our students. It's something that is voluntary. If a school district does not wish to do this, they don't have to do this.
Ohio is a big state. It's a diverse state. It's certainly not one size fits all, and there's some areas of our city where response time can be very quick, and speedy in an emergency when minutes and seconds count.
But there are other parts of the state that are more rural or some of the Appalachian areas are going to be more difficult to get someone there, you know, at a moment's notice. So, school districts, this is completely permissive, school districts if their school board, which is made up of elected officials decide to allow this, then it's something that school districts can do.
BLACKWELL: And the teachers can then do.
(CROSSTALK)
BLACKWELL: Yes, it's an option, certainly, if a teacher wants to do it. Let me ask you, how does it work? Let's say a third grade math teacher wants to carry, has gone through the 24 hours training, who then is notified that that teacher is carrying a gun?
GAVARONE: That's one other thing, the school district also determines the amount of, you know, training that's required, and what that training is. That's completely up to the school district. So, the state --
BLACKWELL: Not to exceed 24 hours of training.
GAVARONE: No, no, no less than 24 hours of training. So, the school is --
BLACKWELL: So, here is page 73, line 21.11, subsection 1, initial instruction in strange training, shall not exceed 24 hours. And the next section here says that annual requalification training which shall not exceed 8 hours.
The school district can go on to change that but the state law is clear 24 in the initial training, and then 8. But go ahead, who is notified if a teacher is carrying?
GAVARONE: No, the 24 is the floor. So -- and then a teacher can carry -- I don't know if there's a notification requirement in this legislation, but the teacher would be able to carry.
Listen, I'm a mom, three kids, and if there were an active shooter in my school, I'd want someone there on the spot ready to address this issue. I mean, seconds means lives. Certainly, call the police, get people there.
BLACKWELL: But if there is -- you're a mother, don't parents deserve to know if their kids' math teacher is carrying a Glock?
GAVARONE: I don't know if there's a notification requirement in this legislation, but --
BLACKWELL: But you cosponsored it, my question is do they deserve to know. Do you think there should be one, then?
[15:45:00]
GAVARONE: I think the school district would determine that. It's very much local control. The school district can decide whether or not a teacher carries a gun.
BLACKWELL: OK, so let me ask you this, you're a parent, would you like to know if your child's teacher was carrying a gun?
GAVARONE: I tell you what, I'd want my child to be in a class where the teacher were carrying a gun because if --
BLACKWELL: How much training is required
GAVARONE: -- my child is going to be protected.
BLACKWELL: How much range training is required to be approved for this?
GAVARONE: The school district would decide the amount of training. The state set a floor. So, the school district can decide to go --
BLACKWELL: But you're leaving a lot up to the school district. The state, though, the state has regulated that a police officer in Ohio receives 60 hours of training with a firearm, 46 hours on the gun range -- that's according to the Fraternal Order of Police, and this bill has a maximum from my reading of it of four hours.
So why should the math teacher down the hall have so few hours training on a range but the school resource officer has 46 hours?
GAVARONE: The law enforcement training is more than what -- a lot of stuff that's in addition to what would be necessary in school situations, that's a law enforcement situation.
Certainly, the school district can decide they want 60 hours, a hundred hours.
BLACKWELL: The math teacher, according to this bill, you're talking in ifs, I'm talking what you're going to send to the governor there.
These teachers, any employee there who wants to carry a gun in a school is not required to demonstrate proficiency. They don't really have to show that they know how to use the weapon. They just have to undergo the training. Is there anything in the bill
that requires proficiency?
GAVARONE: The school district, ensure that they're doing everything that they can to protect their kids the best way possible. They are elected officials, and they can require the amount of training the state set up the floor, but the school district can go above and beyond that.
BLACKWELL: Why is the floor so low here?
GAVARONE: If you think about it --
BLACKWELL: State Senator Teresa Gavarone, we're having some technical issues here where we're getting some glitches. I thank you, though, for being with me. Again, you've cosponsored this bill, and I've asked some very specific questions, I was hoping to get some answers to. Ohio State Senator Teresa Gavarone, I thank you for your time.
We've got breaking news right now, leaders of the extremist group Proud Boys have been indicted on new federal charges of seditious conspiracy. A live report from Washington next.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLACKWELL: Our breaking news. The Justice Department has charged the head of the Proud Boys and other leaders of this extremist group with seditious conspiracy.
It's part of the ongoing investigation into the violent insurrection at the Capitol last year. Let's go now to CNN's Evan Perez. Tell us about the charges.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Victor, this is a very rarely used charge by the Justice Department, and they're now bringing it against a group of five members of the Proud Boys, including Enrique Tario, who is the leader of the group. The Justice Department says that these are in addition to the charges that these men have already been facing. They've already pleaded not guilty.
But in this new indictment that was handed down by the grand jury here in Washington, really kind of draws out a scope of what the Justice Department is looking at.
They're pointing out that these men not only did they arm themselves, they organized themselves on social media. They planned, according to the Justice Department, according to prosecutors, they were planning a violent interaction or violent assault here in Washington on January 6th.
And again, that is part of what the Justice Department says makes this beyond just a riot but taking into the realm of seditious conspiracy. Again, that's something that's rarely charged in this country. The last time before this was at the Oath Keepers, a group of Oath
Keepers also involved in January 6th were also charged with seditious conspiracy. Before that, Victor, it was back in 2010 that a group of Michigan militia members were charged with the same charge.
[15:55:00]
One of the things what this tells us about what the Justice Department is doing here is, again, this is a lot of activity as they try to figure out how to hold accountable the people who not only invaded the Capitol on January 6th but also trying to focus on people outside of the riot, people who may have helped fund and bring some of those people here that carried out the violence on January 6th -- Victor.
BLACKWELL: Yes, as you said, a rarely used statute here. Evan Perez for us in Washington, thank you.
At any moment, we could get the results of the confidence vote regarding British Prime Minister Boris Johnson. A live look at British Parliament here. If enough members of his party vote against him, Johnson could lose his position. That's next.
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BLACKWELL: Elon Musk threatened again today that he might walk away from his agreement to buy Twitter. In an open letter, the billionaire says the company is actively resisting and thwarting his information rights by not providing data he requested about spam and fake accounts.
Now Twitter says those accounts are less than 5 percent of its user base. Some Wall Street analysts say Musk may have been a case of buyer's remorse and could be trying to bring down the $44 billion price tag he agreed to.
4-year-old Prince Louis stole the show again during Sunday's final celebration. Boy, I wish I would. Put my hand -- let me tell you what my mama would have done.
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Jubilee or no jubilee. All right, you see him here, cameras caught him throwing a tantrum, trying to cover his mother's mouth, the Duchess of Cambridge here. It would have been some furniture moving on the balcony. This morning, his parents thanked everyone for a fantastic weekend, tweeting out this image saying we had an incredible time, especially Louis.
"THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.
