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CNN INTERNATIONAL: Conservative MPs Cast Ballots In Boris Johnson's Confidence Vote; Zelenskyy: Ukrainian Troops "Holding Out" In Severodonetsk; Zelenskyy Visits Soldiers On The Frontlines; Japanese Defense Min.: NK Launches "Unprecedented;" Soon: Polls Close In Johnson Confidence Vote. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired June 06, 2022 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone, welcome to CNN NEWSROOM, I'm Isa Soares. We're coming to you live from Westminster, where it's just gone 7:00 p.m. And it's a fight for political survival tonight. Boris Johnson -- expecting a vote of confidence in Boris Johnson, and that's taking votes -- taking place as we speak. We know conservative lawmakers in the house, the building behind me are voting on whether or not the British prime minister should stay at 10 Downing Street.
We're looking at those images, of course, it's a far-footage, but you know, voting will end from what we know in about an hour or so. We expect results in about an hour after that. Mr. Johnson, this morning, has been working to drum up support in parliament earlier. But some say this showdown has been a while in the making, months in the making.
The Prime Minister's reputation as you know, as we've been covering here on CNN, has been badly damaged, I think it's fair to say, they've been ongoing party-gate scandal, right as the U.K. faces a cost of living crisis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BOOING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And just to really give you a sense of the mood, this is a prime minister over the weekend, platinum jubilee celebrations as you heard there, he was being booed, marrying what otherwise would have been a pretty euphoric occasion for queen and country. So let me talk you through how the process works today, and what the outcomes could be tonight. The vote has been triggered, and Richard Quest will join me in a minute to talk a bit in more detail about this.
The vote has been triggered because of at least 54 conservatives MPs, around 15 percent or so, who have voted, formally requested it. That's how it kind of kicks off. So, what happens after that? Then you have really the influential -- as you can see there, the influential 1922 Committee which represents the Conservative Party MPs on the backbenches of parliament. And there on your screen, you'll see pretty much the breakdown.
Mr. Johnson, basically needs a majority of 180 Conservatives to back him. That's the key number. That's the number we all will be looking out for today. If that happens, well, as you can see there, he can continue as prime minister and party leader, and will be exempt from another year, another leadership challenge for at least a year. If he falls short, as you can see there, then will be banned from running again. He will be ousted and the party finds a replacement.
We have been here before -- Richard Quest joins me now. Different of course, Boris Johnson with Theresa May for different reasons. Theresa May, Brexit, Richard, give us a sense of the mood? Because this is important. Because with Theresa May, I felt that really, the country and the MPs in parliament are very much against her. This is different, do you think?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: I think what this is, is a stalking match. This is a case of a prime minister who, the country has to a large extent lost faith in the ability to tell the truth. The party-gate, there have been numerous at all times, there have been numerous other scandals, this that and the other, and it's left him with an -- it's left us with a feeling of, he's damaged goods. So, you get this move against him.
[14:05:00]
Is it likely to succeed tonight? Probably not. Why? Because within the government ranks, there are a number of MPs that pretty much have to vote for him. The so-called government payroll vote.
SOARES: The ones with the payroll, right.
QUEST: The one -- you know, the cabinet ministers, the junior ministers, the bag carriers known as the private secretaries, the PPSS, all of those people, they are going vote to keep him there. And there's about 160, 170 of them.
SOARES: But he's damaged goods?
QUEST: Oh!
SOARES: For how long -- for how long can he hold on? Because Theresa May, she got a majority. Then --
QUEST: Yes --
SOARES: Then she lost it what, five or six months? You know, it's not the first time --
QUEST: But in the case of Theresa May, Brexit was still very febrile --
SOARES: It was, it was, you're absolutely right --
QUEST: It was very active. It was very controversial. And so, there were these massive votes that kept coming to parliament that she had to succeed on, just to get the thing done. And there were deadlines after deadlines. Now, here it's different. Here, this is the party fearing their own electoral demise. We've got two by-elections coming up --
SOARES: Yes --
QUEST: The last one was a disaster for the prime minister. We had the local council elections, where the Conservatives did dreadfully in that. And so, the writing is on the wall for Boris Johnson. Now, will -- so, let's say he wins tonight, which he probably will. Let's say he wins tonight, but the majority is dramatically reduced.
SOARES: Right, if he wins tonight, how much does he have to win by in order for him to remain in power, and to succeed? Let me -- first of all, before you answer that --
QUEST: Yes --
SOARES: I want you to listen to Jacob Rees-Mogg and what he had to say.
QUEST: Sure.
SOARES: Have a listen to this, Richard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACOB REES-MOGG, U.K. BREXIT OPPORTUNITIES MINISTER: One is enough, that's the rule in a democracy. If you win by one, you've won.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And do you feel that if this prime minister won the vote tonight by one vote, he would feel that he had an appropriate mandate to continue on in his role as prime minister?
REES-MOGG: One is enough. It's no good saying that the rules of the party say something and then behind it, unofficially, there is some other rule that nobody knows and is invented for the purpose. I obviously want the prime minister to get as big a majority as possible. I think that would be helpful and it would close this matter down between now and the next general election, which would be good for the country, good for Conservative Party. But one is enough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, technically he's right.
QUEST: Yes, and he knows --
SOARES: Right --
QUEST: He's talking rubbish as well.
SOARES: Technically he's right --
QUEST: Of course.
SOARES: But --
QUEST: If he was --
SOARES: Woefully damaged here?
QUEST: No, if he has to lose -- if he was to win by one --
SOARES: Yes --
QUEST: Or five --
SOARES: How long will it last?
QUEST: Or ten -- weeks. It's -- I mean, he'd have to go because the party -- even though, he couldn't be formally be challenged --
SOARES: Yes --
QUEST: Because he would be so damaged in the eyes -- look, the leader of --
SOARES: Yes, the public --
QUEST: The leader of the opposition Sir Keir Starmer today said it's the beginning of the end. And there's a certain truth in that, because once you -- once the vote of confidence process has begun, there is clearly a groundswell of support against you.
SOARES: Yes --
QUEST: And that is the -- is why tonight is very dangerous for --
SOARES: Yes, it's the corrosive nature almost so --
QUEST: Very dangerous --
SOARES: Of them, no confidence vote.
QUEST: Yes --
SOARES: And will be talking in about 20 minutes or so.
QUEST: Yes --
SOARES: Richard Quest, thank you --
QUEST: Thank you --
SOARES: Very much. Well, as Richard was saying, what's happening today is a rare event. But let's not forget, we have been here before. Rich was outlining, Rich and I were discussing Theresa May's vote of confidence back in 2018, if my mind serves me right. And it was triggered by her own party over the question as Richard mentioned of Brexit. Her premiership in fact lasted for a matter of months, and she resigned in 2019, giving into intense political pressure. One MP called it saying that she got a real grilling, I think were the
words that was used then. Let's discuss this picture further actually and the price in history, British politics. Christiane Amanpour joins me now for more. And Christiane, I don't know if you heard the discussion I was having with Richard --
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Yes --
SOARES: Just now. Unlike, you know, Theresa May, it was very much Brexit, was front and center and her failure really to deliver in the eyes of many Brexit. This is more -- I almost feel a question of integrity about the man. How much more damaging is that, do you think, Christiane?
AMANPOUR: Well, I've been talking to, you know, a former MP, who actually stood down because of his opposition to Boris Johnson on Brexit. Who said actually, it's not that any more as you point out, this is much more about the public finally saying they've had enough of a person that they cannot trust. And just in case we're wondering about the views out there, the latest poll says six in ten British adults do want the Conservative MPs to force Boris Johnson or to vote him out and show their no confidence in him.
[14:10:00]
So, this is what's happening, and also we're hearing from other MPs, those who actually think that his time should be up. That they feel that it's not a top-down issue. This groundswell is coming from people. When the party-gate sort of reached its height with -- first, there was the, you know, the metropolitan police, and then finally, the Sue Gray report, he was fined, he broke the law, he's the first ever British prime minister to have found to have broken the law.
Then things sort of went quiet, remember? Then all of a sudden, over the recess, all the MPs went back to their constituencies and found that they were being heckled and pressured. And really that they wanted -- the people wanted their MPs to say enough is enough.
They just had enough of what was, in their view, a hypocritical and untruthful role in government by the person of Boris Johnson and the enablers around him, most particularly over violating their own laws of what happened during Brexit when the people of this country were expected under penalty of fines and other issues, not to visit people, not to have parties, not to go to funerals, not to go to hospitals.
There were so much put on each individual under Brexit and this and many other countries that they really were livid when they see their elected leaders breaking their own rules of laws that they've made. So, that's the context in which this is happening right now, Isa.
SOARES: I'm not sure if I've still got Christiane. But let me ask you this, Christiane, I was just -- from picking up from what you said if you're still with us. You know, one person said to me, this goes to the very heart, kind of the old school of politics running -- that's been running this country, which is, you know, the never explain, never apologize. How much does that go to the very heart of what is being voted on today behind me?
AMANPOUR: Well, Isa, look, Jacob Rees-Mogg said to "Sky News" that one vote is enough, we're a democracy, our party rules are like this, one vote is enough. There's almost nobody who actually believes that, whether they support him or not. They know that, that is just a shambles of a statement. That as Richard has been saying and others, that the minute they go, even if he wins by more than one or five or ten or whatever, he needs at least 150, 160 to remain credible.
But this is a personal vote of no confidence by people, by people. Remember, six and ten British people, adults want to see this prime minister out. He was heckled, even booed on the queen's jubilee weekend. That's not a political crowd, as I was told. That is a group of people who came just to see the royal family. And instead, they see the prime minister and they decide to boo him. Also, we have been told that what Prime Minister Johnson did was gather around him a group of enablers, mostly Brexit enablers.
An ideological group of people around him who were chosen in the cabinet and around him for their ideological Brexit, you know, fealty. And that seems, according to independent analysts, not to have served the prime minister well. And the enablers have a role to play in this as well. On the other hand, David Cameron once called him a greasy piglet who was able to get out of any scrape. We will see. Isa?
SOARES: Christiane, always great to get your insights. Thank you very much, Christiane Amanpour there. Well, I'm joined now by Nigel Mills, he's MP, a Conservative MP who has signed a letter of no confidence in Boris Johnson, and he will be voting after our interview. So, explain to our viewers why you've decided to really go against Boris Johnson, your prime minister?
NIGEL MILLS, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE MP: Well, the trick wasn't getting fined by the metropolitan police for breaking the lockdown rules he introduced for the rest of the country. And while the whole country was observing them, he had some considerable personal sacrifice he and his staff in Number 10, I bet he running the party capital of the U.K. for what seemed to be a whole series of events.
I just don't think that the public will ever forgive that lack of -- that complete breach of trust, that lack of integrity that was involved in, you know, being on TV, doing a news conference every night at 6 O'clock, saying, you know, save the NHS, don't socialize, don't go out while attending effectively parties in his own building. I just can't see that being a forgivable thing for a --
SOARES: Yes --
MILLS: Prime Minister to do.
SOARES: And what is important -- just to explain to our viewers here is that, you haven't just made up this -- your mind --
MILLS: Yes --
SOARES: In the last 24 hours. I think you are in the first Conservative MPs to come out and actually say that you are against, you were calling for him to step down for a vote of no confidence. Does this -- this isn't so much about the policy here. This is about clearly like you said, a question of the integrity, whether he can survive. How much do you think -- first of all, do you think he can survive tonight?
MILLS: I think he'll win the vote tonight. I don't think there's a --
[14:15:00]
SOARES: By how much?
MILLS: If you'd made me guess, I'd say two-thirds to one-third. I think there's any worse than that, it becomes very difficult for him actually, so, that means, yes, you've got a third of your own party that don't have confidence in you. Now, I think we can move on in that situation. Because this isn't a question of policy, it's not the party pulling in two directions --
SOARES: Yes --
MILLS: And it is a question of, can we forgive, you know, those events of the two years of carrying -- if people think we can't, then we have to try to move on. I'm not sure the country will forgive, but we have to let the case die --
SOARES: Yes, can you give me a sense of what your constituents have been saying here? Because this is so important. It goes down to the fact that, very much one rule for them, one rule for the others.
MILLS: Yes, I mean, I've had hundreds and hundreds of e-mails, people with harrowing stories, not being able to get care for their elderly relatives, not being able to have funerals for them, not being able to hold their hands as they lay dying. I can't explain to them why they follow the rules like that. And the prime minister went to a living party. I mean, it's just not possible for me to defend that, I can't terribly could actually defend that.
So those emotional reactions aren't going to ever go away. I think quite rightly, they won't go away in that situation. It's not just, you know, a minor technical breach --
SOARES: No --
MILLS: Here, it's kind of emotional thing. I try to follow these rules to try and get the country through this crisis. And he didn't.
SOARES: And so, if he leads -- OK, he gets a majority. Let's just assume two-thirds, can he still hold on, does he still have -- can the country trust him or as you think, this is as my colleague Richard Quest was saying, the beginning of the end?
MILLS: I mean, the rules are clear, he has to win by one, that's all. So --
SOARES: Well, yes, it says that -- what does it mean? (CROSSTALK)
MILLS: Those of us -- and those of us who engage in Democratic politics here, you know, we're going to have to accept the win a win. As you always have to hope that the losing party and their supporters in --
SOARES: Choosing -- they won, but he didn't ask --
MILLS: Yes, I am -- that is the challenge --
SOARES: Actions has saved the situation --
MILLS: One of them was gone within days --
SOARES: Right, so --
MILLS: Yes, I mean, the vote is going on. I mean, we're here trying to win the vote and make the change. I don't think we want a special aid about losing results this time. But you know, those are the rules, he wins, he wins. We have to try and get behind him in that situation I think.
SOARES: Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg was saying he needs one, but what really stood out to me from an interview he did earlier, was what he said that, you know, those voting against the prime minister, those Conservative MPs voting against the prime minister, are disgruntled Brexiteers --
MILLS: The remainers, I think --
SOARES: Remainers, pardon me. You, I know, you're not a remainer --
MILLS: No, I mean, there's a whole spectrum of opinion of people. They just think that the prime minister's conduct has not been befitting of the office he holds. I mean, that's the problem, it's not just remain versus Brexit. Now, there clearly are some people who wanted Boris out before he even got into office. But that's not a majority, that's a small number of people --
SOARES: So, there's no campaign, is there a campaign to --
MILLS: I'm sure --
SOARES: Oust him?
MILLS: By some there's been a campaign. But for a lot of us, it's an individual view, I don't know of my few colleagues, you know, have not been anti-Boris. I supported him three years ago, I wanted him to win, and you know, I think he's done some great things, I just can't hand on her -- defend some of his conduct in office. So I think that's the difference here.
SOARES: Some of the arguments that we have been hearing from allies of the prime minister, is that this is not a good time to have a leadership contest. You know, there is a war in Ukraine, inflation is high, what do you have to -- what do you say to that?
MILLS: There's never a good time. There's that. I mean, the war in Ukraine, you could argue started in 2008, it could go on for a very long time, just happening -- I mean, if it doesn't, they want things, the cost of living crisis is going away this year --
SOARES: Yes --
MILLS: Do you think? And then we'll be in a runoff to an election. I mean, yes, it's very hard I think to ever think of a time when the -- there hasn't been political crisis. So, I think what's happening is, we've all been quite patient actually, waiting for the police to finish their -- I mean, while waiting for the Sue Gray report to be published.
SOARES: And it hasn't finished the investigation?
MILLS: Yes, that's still ongoing.
SOARES: Yes --
MILLS: I think it's -- I think that now is they want to -- you know, if people are going to have concerns for the prime minister's conduct, we have a party-gate, we have to have a vote at the end of that --
SOARES: Yes --
MILLS: Process. You don't wait six months and then be concerned about it, that would look completely nonsense to the public, wouldn't it?
SOARES: Very quickly, one question. Who would be the frontrunner if he does go. Would you -- who would you say is your favorite?
MILLS: Let's have a contest in 4 weeks, start working out who are the runners and the riders will be. I don't know who? Probably himself. I mean, needs to win the vote tonight for --
SOARES: Nigel, I appreciate it, thank you --
MILLS: Thank you --
SOARES: Very much. And we'll have much more news after a very short break. Do stay right here, you are watching CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:20:00]
SOARES: Welcome back everyone, we'll have much more on the vote of confidence underway right now at the building behind me, that will decide of course, the political fate of British Prime Minister Boris Johnson. But first, really, an update on the war in Ukraine. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says his troops are holding out against fierce attacks in Severodonetsk, a street battles rage.
But he warns they are outnumbered by stronger Russian forces. He says that Severodonetsk and nearby Lysychansk are now dead cities after relentless bombardments. Mr. Zelenskyy visited the front lines in Lysychansk over the weekend. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT, UKRAINE (through translator): I am proud of everyone I met, shook hands with, communicated with and supported. Something was brought for the military, but I will not detail it, and I brought something from them to you. It is important we brought confidence and strength.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And for the first time in more than a month, Kyiv was attacked by Russian missiles. Vladimir Putin has warned Russia will strike new targets if the West supplies Ukraine with longer-range weapons. Britain says it will join the U.S. in doing exactly that, pledging to send multiple launch rocket systems.
Let's get more on all of this, our Ben Wedeman joins me now in Kramatorsk, Ukraine. And Ben, Ukrainian troops seeing some pretty notable setbacks as we just outlined in the strategic city of Severodonetsk. What can you tell us about the fighting on the grounds?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is intense. It is street to street fighting in Severodonetsk, and that's a city that is -- it's not clear, you know, it's back and forth. At the end of last week, the Ukrainians were conceding that the Russians controlled about 80 percent of the city. Over the weekend, Ukrainians then again came back and said that their forces had counter-attacked and were controlling half the city.
This morning, apparently, the tide has turned again. So, it's really a back and forth battle. And he was right when he said that the Russians are stronger than the Ukrainians, referring to President Zelenskyy in this area.
[14:25:00]
The Russians are making maximum use of their numerical superiority when it comes to artillery. They are raining down artillery, not just on Severodonetsk, but on the town of Lysychansk which overlooks Severodonetsk. And both cities as he said, he's called them dead cities, and that's a fairly apt description. The vast majority of the civilians have long ago fled, but there are still thousands inside both those cities, essentially hiding out in bomb shelters and basements, unable under these circumstances, certainly in Severodonetsk, to leave the city.
Now, Ukrainian officials are stressing that the only way to overcome their disadvantage when it comes to Russian artillery, is for the prompt delivery of a decent quantity of these they call high mobility artillery rocket systems. Which would allow them to fire upon Russian targets around Severodonetsk from a distance, out of range of Russian artillery. But unless they get there soon, and of course, troops need to be trained in how to use these systems. The battle of Severodonetsk may be over soon. Isa?
SOARES: Yes, and what we've been hearing for some time, Ben, correct me if I'm wrong, is that Ukraine has been calling exactly for that, for those long-range artillery from the British, from the Americans. What are Russia saying now, because I believe they are threatening, I believe, Ukraine and others?
WEDEMAN: They are threatening to expand their list of targets. This is what we heard from President Putin, their list of targets, targets that they have not struck before. And many people, including British Intelligence apparently believe that this strike on Kyiv Sunday morning, the first time the capital was hit in many weeks, was part of that messaging from the Kremlin, that if -- and it doesn't seem to be a question of 'if', but when the West goes ahead with provision of these advanced weapon systems to Ukraine, that perhaps, what we saw happen in Kyiv, may be happening more often, and over more parts of this country, Isa.
SOARES: Ben Wedeman for us there in Kramatorsk, Ukraine, thanks very much, Ben. Still to come right here tonight, more on our top story, the British political landscape is in limbo as the country waits for the outcome of the no-confidence vote against Boris Johnson. We are live after a very short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:00]
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. Right now, just behind me, British conservative lawmakers are deciding the fate of Prime Minister Boris Johnson, of course, in a vote that is taking place right now. Mr. Johnson needs 180 Tory MPs, that's the magic number, to stick with him in today's confidence votes if he's to hold on to number 10. The secret ballot closes in about half an hour. In fact, less than half an hour. We are expecting to hear the results in just over 90 minutes time.
Richard Quest joins me now. Bianca Nobilo joins me in from outside the Prime Minister's residence at 10 Downing Street. Bianca, is this the end? Is this the beginning of the end? How do you see it?
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's felt like the beginning of the end for quite some time, Isa. This is absolutely the straw that's breaking the camel's back. But the reason it's such a dangerous moment for the Prime Minister, even if he survives this, is because the discontent and the anger towards him doesn't come from a faction or wing of the party. It's disparate, and it's broad. It comes from the right wing. It comes from the more progressive side of the Conservative Party who all agree that they want a new leader.
The mood has changed this morning. If you'd asked me if I was certain that Boris Johnson would win this, I'd say, yes, because there's 160, 170 MPs, on the government payroll as ministers, junior ministers, et cetera, that's deteriorated throughout the day. We've had a trickle of resignations from those involved in government. And there's more of a question mark over his future. And the palpable frustration of MPs is really coming across me in my communications with them. So, this is a moment of acute danger.
SOARES: Please --
NOBILO: The most perilous position he's ever been in.
SOARES: Please stay with us. Richard, I mean, we've always known that for some time now that he was in acute danger following on from that suit, Gray report. So what has changed?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Oh, what's changed is people are worried. There are a couple of by-elections. The country is angry. The country is pissed off at him.
SOARES: Yes.
QUEST: You know, look, Theresa May, nobody ever doubted her integrity. Nobody ever doubted her competence. They doubted her leadership, they doubted her ability to do Brexit and hold everybody together. Margaret Thatcher, nobody ever doubted her sort of strength. But with Boris Johnson, it's integrity. It's redecorating the Downing Street flat is shabby.
It's a senior advisor that thought it was all right to break the rules in the early parts of COVID, flagrantly break the rules, and he didn't get fired. And he finally left himself and he put the boot and I mean, you know, this is a nest of rats that have left. Dominic Cummings, he put the boot in and said what the Prime Minister is. So there's a stench or whiff about the whole thing.
SOARES: And so, B, picking up, really we just heard what Richard said, you know, there's a stench and there's a whiff, really the way the handling that Boris Johnson and his party handled everything. If he does survive this today, Bianca, how does he continue to lead with authority? And how does he get that trust?
NOBILO: If he manages to continue to lead with authority and trust, he'd be the first British Conservative Prime Minister to do so after facing a vote of confidence in him. Richard's points are the salient ones today because the MPs that I've been speaking to, and I'm not talking about idealistic MPs, or even MPs that don't like Boris Johnson, they've been saying to me that Boris Johnson has fundamentally corroded aspects of British democracy and how public officials and how MPs are regarded by Britain at large.
And I think the apotheosis of this, of breaking the rules or if you don't like the rules making new ones is, just over a week ago, Boris Johnson himself amended the ministerial code to remove any references to resigning if you break it. He also removed all references to honesty, accountability, transparency and integrity.
[14:35:01]
And for many MPs and many people in Britain, that does say it all.
SOARES: Yes, it's the hypocrisy around all this. And Bianca, as you probably would expect, Richard has a question for you.
QUEST: Thank you. Thank you. Look, I'm curious, what's the number, do you think, if he wins by? I mean, obviously, you know, forget what Reese Smog said about him, he wins by one.
NOBILO: Yes. Yes. Yes.
QUEST: But if he wins by five, if he wins by fifty, if he wins by -- what's the number that secures his place, do you think?
NOBILO: Margins are everything. I mean, the general consensus would be two thirds, two thirds of MPs voting for him would be enough for him to stagger on for some time. Theresa May had, I believe, 63 percent of her MPs support her and she staggered on for six months. So, they really -- the Boris Johnson and the government really require, at least I would say, 220 of his own MPs for him not to feel like he's on a knife edge for the next couple of weeks until the by-election. But everyone's watching that margin.
And, as I said, throughout the day, it's become less and less certain that he is going to win by anything decisive or healthy. And interestingly, in comparison to Theresa May, when she faced a vote of confidence in herself, we had quite a clear idea of who was supporting her. It's been extremely difficult to tally or tell who's supporting Boris Johnson. And as you've mentioned, it's a secret ballot. So we really don't know.
SOARES: We don't know. Someone could say they will be backing him, but in private, they might not, right? B, Bianca Nobilo there. Thank you very much, Richard. Thank you.
Well, my next guest says no matter the outcome of the vote, the public is quite simply done with Boris Johnson. Alastair Campbell is the former Downing Street Communications Director for Tony Blair. He joins me now. So Mr. Campbell, explain why he's done.
ALASTAIR CAMPBELL, FORMER DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS FOR TONY BLAIR: Because I think that millions of people around the country, including many people who voted for the conservatives under Boris Johnson, have just decided that the factors that I thought Richard put very, very articulately, this sort of stench and the damage that he's doing to public life and the damage that he's done to our standing in the world, and the fact that he is just an incorrigible liar who's incapable of changing his ways.
And I think that what you saw, for example, when he was being booed, as he arrived for the service of thanksgiving for The Queen, was decent, honest people saying we're just not putting up with this any longer. And I think some of these MPs who've shifted in the last few days is because they've been getting that in their constituencies when they've gone back.
And look, those of us who had been sort of saying this for years, I said, the day he took office, Boris Johnson will be brought down by his inability to abide by the basic ministerial standards. And as Bianca said, his reaction, when that turned out to be the case, was actually to get rid of the standards. Well, the public, I think, has just -- has decided to say, No, enough is enough. And the Tory MPs are now getting that message.
SOARES: So what was the straw that broke the camel's back? Was it the boos? Was it the cake? Was it the partying? Was it the rule for ones and one rule for one, one rule for the others?
CAMPBELL: I mean, I don't know. I think -- look, you're talking here about Conservative MPs. I mean, one of the great frustrations, I think, for the British people has been that in recent weeks and months, where we've been gaslit, and we've been lied to, or be misled again and again about the reality of what happened with these parties in lockdown. And his cabinet going out to support him is that people have just said, well, this is so frustrating, because only the Tory MPs can decide this.
Now, I think that the Tory MPs will vote by majority to express their confidence in Boris Johnson. But I also agree with Richard and Bianca that the fact of this happening, and the fact that the numbers will probably be higher than anybody expected, even 24, 48 hours ago, means that he's now finished.
Now, how long he limps on, that's a question for him in the Conservative Party. But I honestly believe these Conservative MPs, if there's any of them still to vote, they should surely understand by now, he is dragging all of them down with him. And worse than that, he's been dragging the country down with him. I've been in several different parts of the world in recent weeks. I cannot emphasize enough the damage that that guy and his government have done to our standing in the world. I meet senior politicians from different governments and different parts of the world. They do not take our country seriously at the moment, because of the Prime Minister and the government that we have.
SOARES: And so, Mr. Campbell, I mean, you're saying that you think he might survive this, but in terms of the long term, how are we looking at weeks, months? I mean, how damaging is this going to be for the party?
CAMPBELL: Well, it's incredibly damaging, but it's worse than those damages of the country. You know, we just had four days of, OK, you could argue that it's sort of looking back and all that.
[14:40:05]
We've had for days celebrating the Queen's Platinum Jubilee and Britain has been able to project a sense of itself to the world that people respect, that people like. And people have that feeling that, you know, Britain's actually quite a good place, OK? And then the minute this guy is back center stage is chaos, it's about division, it's about lying, it's about the debasing of democracy and the standards of public life, it's about the erosion of the rule of law. And that's damaging to the country.
Look, I can't stand the Conservative Party. I don't care about the damage to them. I actually want them to get more damage, and I hope they all get thrown out because they've all enabled this guy. But the fact is, it's doing incredible damage to the country. You just take one thing, Northern -- just taking the issue of Northern Ireland in the moment, this guy puts literally zero energy, zero attention into an issue as sensitive and difficult and dangerous as that because all he cares about is himself, his own position, his friends, the people around him, that is all that motivates him. And the sooner he is gone, the better.
SOARES: Alastair Campbell, always great to get your insight. Thank you very much, Mr. Campbell.
CAMPBELL: Thank you.
SOARES: Still to come right here on the show. A dramatic response from South Korea and the U.S. to North Korea's latest missile launches. And now a stark new warning from the International Atomic Energy watchdog. We'll go to Seoul for the latest on the rising tensions next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: The U.S. and South Korea have responded in dramatic fashion after North Korea launched eight missiles into the waters east of the peninsula and the International Atomic Energy Agency says it has new indications the North may be planning an even bigger provocation. Our Paula Hancocks has more for you from Seoul.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is about as close as you can get to the meaning of the term "tit for tat." On Sunday morning, North Korea fired eight short range ballistic missiles off the east coast of North Korea into the water. And then in the early hours of Monday morning, the U.S. and South Korea also fired eight surface-to-surface missiles, again, directing them into the waters of the East Coast.
[14:45:00]
Now what was interesting about the Sunday launches from North Korea and what caused the Japanese Defense Minister to call it unprecedented was that these were eight missiles, but also, according to the South Koreans, fired from four separate locations all within 40 minutes of each other.
So, what we have heard from the joint Chiefs of Staff here in Seoul today, this Monday is that this show of force, as they call it, is to show North Korea that even if they do fire with missiles from multiple locations, the U.S. and South Korea have the ability and readiness to immediately strike with precision. So, certainly this is of concern to those in the region.
Now whether it makes any difference to Kim Jong-un's calculation when he sees this show of force is unlikely, he is very much in a period of testing missiles, testing his weapons' capabilities at this point, and despite overtures from many sides, he is showing absolutely no interest in negotiation or any kind of engagement. Now, also, what we have heard today from this Monday, from the A --
IAEA, the International Atomic Energy Agency, is that they have what they called observed indications that one of the entrances of the underground tunnel, where previous underground nuclear tests have taken place, appears to have been reopened and they say that it is possibly in preparation for a nuclear test.
That would be in keeping with what we have heard from both U.S. and South Korean intelligence and military agencies saying that they believe that the preparations are pretty much done by North Korea in preparation for a potential seventh underground nuclear test, which experts say would mean now that it's really a political decision as to whether or not to go ahead without Kim Jong-un having to make that decision when or if he wants to do that seventh test. The IAEA saying that it would be a cause for serious concern. Paula Hancocks, CNN, Seoul.
SOARES: Now the mayor of Chattanooga, Tennessee warns it's going to be a long hot summer if the U.S. Congress fails to pass new gun legislation. At least three people were killed and more than a dozen others injured as gunfire erupted outside a nightclub there early Sunday. It was one of at least 10 mass shootings in the U.S. this weekend that swept the country from Philadelphia to Phoenix.
Well, the continuing gun violence comes as a bipartisan group of U.S. Senators tries to hammer out new legislation following the Texas School shooting that killed nineteen children and two teachers.
In Nigeria, a brazen act of mass murder has left the country in sharp, lawmakers in the southern state of Owo say at least 28 and possibly dozens more worshipers were killed on Sunday, when gunmen on motorcycles open fire on a Catholic Church. Such violence is rare in Nigeria south. Authorities have vowed to hunt down the attackers. And from the Vatican, Pope Francis said he's praying for the victims. We'll stay on top of that story for you, of course.
Firefighters in Bangladesh so they've now contained a horrific as well as deadly fire at a container depot but it's still working to put it out. Authorities say at least forty-nine people including nine firefighters were killed. They say it may have started in huge containers of hydrogen peroxide, and they're spread to others causing massive explosions. It's not clear yet what ignited the inferno.
And tennis star Rafael Nadal is proving once again that he's the King of the Clay Court. He won his 14th French Open title on Sunday and that's extending his record. The victory clinched him his 22nd, get that, 22nd Grand Slam to ahead of Roger Federer and Novak Djokovic and the most Career Grand Slam titles in history. Nadal spoke with our Christiane Amanpour after his monumental win. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: I mean, there we have it.
RAFAEL NADAL, 22-TIME GRAND SLAM CHAMPION: Yes. AMANPOUR: The great trophy, 14 times, 22 grand slams, a whole load of
other, you know, U.S. Open, Australian Open, two Olympic gold medals. Are you ready to declare or at least have people say that you are now the greatest of all time? You wouldn't agree when I asked you last time.
NADAL: Well, I honestly don't think much about that. And from the bottom of my heart, I really don't care that much, you know. I mean, I think it doesn't matter, you know. I think we achieved our dreams. I achieved my dream and I enjoy what I am doing.
Yes, I understand the question and I know the press and the people is always caring a lot about this staff. But in some way, I know I am in a -- in an important part of the history of the sport, you know, and that makes me feel proud, happy, at the end, doesn't matter much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:50:06]
SOARES: What a great win. Congrats to Rafa Nadal there.
And still to come tonight, Boris Johnson's battle for political survival, the very latest from Westminster as polls are about to close in a crucial confidence vote. Richard Quest joins me next.
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SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. Now in less than 10 minutes or so, voting will end in a contest that could oust the British Prime Minister from power. Boris Johnson is facing a confidence vote from members of his party. He needs the backing of 180 lawmakers. That's the key number. That's just over half the party to survive.
Let's bring in Richard Quest who's following the story with me and we're be anchoring the next few hours here from outside the House of Parliament. Richard, go ahead, what's in your mind?
QUEST: You know, it's the speed with which it's all sort of deteriorated. This has been a brewing --
SOARES: For some time, yes.
QUEST: -- fiasco for some time. But all of a sudden -- and these letters, by the way, have been dribbling in over money.
SOARES: That's why I don't feel the --
QUEST: Exactly.
SOARES: Exactly. I don't feel that it's there. I don't think the change. I don't feel it.
QUEST: Exactly.
SOARES: I felt it with Theresa May. I'm not feeling it right now. QUEST: Because there's no sense of crisis in the same sense. You had Brexit that was an almighty sore and those parliamentary debates and there was decisions and deadlines.
Here, there's just something nasty smelling in the basement. You know that the drains -- you've got to get the drains off.
SOARES: So how can you clean it? How do you --
QUEST: Well, that's the problem.
SOARES: How do you then -- if he gets a significant number of supports and votes, the stench will still be there.
QUEST: Correct.
SOARES: Right? So how does he then do a spring clean? How -- can he spring clean?
QUEST: He's tried to do it several times. Remember, in the light -- the one just a few months ago, he said I hear as a result. There have been numerous reports into partygate because the partygate was serious because it went against the sense of fairness, that natural sense of fairness that we saw in the Jubilee weekend, where we just saw you here's a woman, the Queen who's been there for 70 years --
SOARES: Devoted her life, yes.
QUEST: -- devoted her life, integrity, never put a foot wrong virtually. And yet, here's Boris Johnson, skirting around with parties in Downing Street and the advisors who think it's okay to break the rules.
SOARES: And Sue Gray's words was a failure of judgment and a failure of leadership.
QUEST: Right.
SOARES: He was right at the center of this.
QUEST: But this goes back to his days in this as a matter of London.
[14:55:02]
It goes back to his days as a political lobbyist, as a journalist in Brussels when he was a literal spectator, you know. This goes back a long way. Boris Johnson has always been seen as a chancer. He takes his risks. He plays the game. He make -- he pushes it as far as he can. And he's got away with it. I know he'll get away with it tonight.
SOARES: Yes, I mean (INAUDIBLE) TfL Tories, he will survive, but how long can he survive? Do you think he can go on?
QUEST: He will go on until the Tories believe that electoral suicide is around the corner. Now they already saw it with the local elections. They saw it with the last by-election, there's another two by-elections --
SOARES: There's another two, yes.
QUEST: -- coming up. But ultimately, he's got -- it's a fixed term parliament. He's got a few more years to turn things around. And, you know, the other thing to remember, of course, is that his majority is so huge that you -- it will be very difficult to lose that majority in one election. So he -- the Tories stand a really good chance of winning the next election.
SOARES: And if he few wins, of course, he's got the whole year where he can obviously contest. That's important. And Rich, of cause, you'll have much more on "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" in the next few minutes.
QUEST: We will.
SOARES: Do stay right here with CNN.
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