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Proud Boys Leader Charged; DHS Warns the U.S. Could Become more Volatile; Rep. Steve Cohen (D-TN) is Interviewed about Violence in the U.S.; Uvalde Parents Want Answers; Jared Moskowitz is Interviewed about Gun Legislation. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired June 07, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Good Tuesday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow. We're glad you're with us this morning.

New details emerging about who the January 6th select committee will bring to testify at its first public hearing that is set for primetime this Thursday night. CNN has learned the panel plans to hear testimony from two people who had direct interaction with the far-right group the Proud Boys on and around the 6th of January. It also includes a documentarian who was embedded for weeks with that group and a police officer who was injured at the Capitol after an altercation involving Proud Boys' members.

SCIUTTO: This comes as the DOJ just announced its most serious criminal charges so far in its ongoing investigation of the Capitol attack. It has indicted the head of the Proud Boys, Enrique Tarrio, and four others with seditious conspiracy. They are accused of working together to intimidate members of Congress and law enforcement on January 6th, prompting them to flee, trying to prevent Congress from performing its official duties of certifying Joe Biden's presidential victory.

Joining us now, CNN senior crime and justice reporter Katelyn Polantz, also former federal prosecutor and CNN legal analyst Elliot Williams.

First, though, Katelyn, tell us what we know about these Justice Department charges against the Proud Boys' leader, seditious conspiracy, that's significant.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, it certainly is. It's a new charge. It's a more ambitious charge, Jim.

But these are five leaders that are charged in this case, five leaders of the Proud Boys, that we've heard of before. These guys have been charged previously with conspiracy to obstruct the January 6th certification of the election. And Enrique Tarrio and the four others now they are facing this additional rewritten charge, seditious conspiracy. So what changed from what we knew before? Well, the Justice

Department, in recent weeks, added a cooperator against the Proud Boys, someone that was part of the leadership group with these other men. And we also are seeing prosecutors rewriting the seditious charge adding a little bit more detail, not a lot, but just a little bit in this case.

And the one thing that is really separating a conspiracy charge from a seditious conspiracy charge is that in seditious conspiracy, the language is about overthrowing the federal government. And in this particular case, Tarrio is accused now of texting with others about watching how the January 6th meeting or the recession of the Senate out of the chamber, saying, let's see how this plays out, whether they were going to meet again. And prosecutors are saying that these men of the Proud Boys were planning, not just to obstruct the vote, but to work together with force to intimidate members of Congress to leave the chamber.

HARLOW: Katelyn, thanks.

And, Elliot, I mean, seditious conspiracy is quite a charge. And I just wonder how high the bar is for prosecutors to succeed in proving it out in court.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: No, you're absolutely right, Poppy. Number one, it's a serious charge. It's got a 20-year maximum.

HARLOW: Yes.

WILLIAMS: It is a high bar, and it's something that's not charged often. I think the last time it got charged 10 or 15 years ago in Michigan, it got thrown out because it's very hard to prove.

Now, look, it's not necessarily just overthrowing the government, though. It's using force to hinder, prevent or delay the execution of any law of the United States. And there's a very clear path here of using force, number one, we know that happened because we all saw the videos. But if you look at the communications, the emails, the encrypted messages and so on, they are trying to disrupt or delay the certification of January - of the election there.

So, it's tough. It doesn't happen often. But if there is a case for it, this is it.

SCIUTTO: Elliot, I'm curious what the significance is of the fact that the Proud Boy leader, Enrique Tarrio, charged here, was not on the grounds of the Capitol on January 6th, but was still charged.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Because this gets to a bigger question here, right, do you need to be physically involved, right, in this or just involved in the planning? And what does that mean for other senior folks who may have incited this?

WILLIAMS: It's a couple things. Number one, for any conspiracy, Jim, it's an agreement between parties where two people have a meeting of the minds as to do something. And, again, the indictment lays out a number of communications, really graphic ones, talking about war and how we need to go to war, in effect. So, there was an agreement there, number one.

Number two, it's been a criticism lodged against the Justice Department that they were only going after people who were, you know, these sort of little guys who were foot soldiers or whatever. What this shows here is that there's broader planning and agreement among people higher up on the food chain. So, it is significant in that sense.

HARLOW: And, Katelyn, you have some new reporting on the Justice Department really intensifying their investigation, focused on the Trump campaign's interaction with so-called alternate Republican electors in states that the former president lost, and whether the scheme to organize them could be charged as a crime.

[09:05:16]

What can you tell us?

POLANTZ: That's right, Poppy.

So, I've been tracking the Justice Department investigation, this criminal investigation into January 6th. And one of those aspects that the Justice Department has been pursuing is the Trump campaign, their communications with state electors in battleground states as the Trump campaign wanted to put forward alternate electors to basically supplant the true winners of those states who were going to be voting for Biden.

So, in Georgia, I was able to locate an email that a member of the Trump campaign, a staffer, had sent out to electors that were about to gather in Georgia, telling them not just to gather the next day to meet to support Donald Trump, but to meet in secret. So this staffer, his name is Robert Sinners (ph), he wrote in this email to the Georgia electors on December 13th, I must ask for your complete discretion. Your duties are imperative to ensure the end result, a win in Georgia for President Trump, but will be hampered unless we have complete secrecy and discretion.

So, ultimately, when that meeting occurred, when the electors met the next day, there were local news cameras there to capture it, so it didn't actually take place in secret. But this email, this call for secrecy, my understanding is that it is of interest now to three sets of investigators. The Justice Department, the Fulton County grand jury, this local body that is looking at this criminal -- possible criminal investigation, and then also the House Select Committee.

And as we know, this is not just about electors themselves, these alternate electors. It is not a standalone issue. We believe that it is part of this larger idea to put forward an alternative to stop and overthrow the ultimate outcome of the election for Joe Biden.

SCIUTTO: Yes. HARLOW: Katelyn, your dogged reporting on display. Thank you for bringing that us to.

Elliot Williams, for the great analysis as well.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: No question, it gets to the question, why to keep it quiet.

HARLOW: Right.

SCIUTTO: If it was all on the up and up, why keep it quite?

HARLOW: Right.

SCIUTTO: New this morning, CNN has learned that the Department of Homeland Security is now warning of threats of violent attacks, more of them, from inside the U.S., that they could become more volatile throughout the summer, midterm elections season. We should note, it's not the first time they've sent something out post January 6th. It makes clear the terrorism threat we face is more domestic than foreign.

HARLOW: Let's get straight to our law enforcement correspondent Whitney Wild.

Whitney, what more can you tell us about that reporting?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, Jim, this bulletin threads together these recent attacks, the one in Buffalo, Uvalde, the New York subway shooting and others to assess that we are still in dangerous territory here. The other reality that this report makes very clear is that the environment we were in leading up to January 6, 2021, really hasn't changed that much. The new advisory assesses that some of the risks still centers quite a bit on elections. The bulletin notes that misinformation and disinformation spun up on social media remain incredibly dangerous.

Here's a quote from that bulletin. As the United States enters midterm elections season this year, we assess that calls for violence by domestic violent extremists directed at democratic institutions, political candidates, party offices, election events and election workers will likely increase.

Further, the abortion ruling is another major concern for intelligence officials who note that people who advocate for abortion -- advocate for abortion rights, rather, and against abortion rights have on public forums encouraged violence.

Here's the big challenge facing law enforcement. These motivators don't always necessarily fit into the categories of terrorism, the defined categories of terrorism. Sometimes this is a blend of ideologies and personal grievances. But what current and former officials know is that whatever the motivator, often the pattern of behavior before a mass incident is similar. And so he hope is that, you know, workers across the spectrum, faith leaders, mental health workers, social workers, as well as local police who were really on the front lines, who confront these threats as they're ramping up in real time will be armed with this information and effectively advocate for intervention before a major crime happens.

Back to you.

SCIUTTO: Whitney Wild, that's quite an environment they're describing there. Thanks so much.

Joining me now to discuss, Democratic Congressman Steve Cohen of Tennessee. He is a member of the Judiciary Committee.

Congressman, thank you for taking the time this morning.

REP. STEVE COHEN (D-TN): Jim, nice to be back with you. And I was really proud of you in Ukraine and was concerned for you, but thank you for doing that reporting.

SCIUTTO: Oh, that's kind of you to say. Appreciate it.

You heard Whitney Wild's reporting there. The Justice Department, DHS, saying it's no better today, the environment, particularly as it relates to elections, violence around elections, like you witnessed yourself on January 6th.

[09:10:00]

No bet today than it was prior to January 6th.

I wonder, for folks watching at home now, should they be concerned that these midterms coming up might be marred by violence?

COHEN: We all should be concerned about the midterms being harmed and all public officials should be concerned about their own safety, I fear.

Jonathan Martin, our friend who wrote "This Shall Not Pass" makes that clear in his book that this is something that is a continuing part of American government, American politics, that the big lie continues, the fealty to Trump continues and the encouragement to the white supremist and the terrorists to be involved continues.

I have no doubt on January 6th, I felt my life was in danger when I was in the gallery. And when I was there, I hollered down to the floor and said, call Trump and ask him to call off his revolutionary guard. It was clear to me what had occurred that day. And it's still going on. And it continues because a man is intent to get power and Republicans helped him and Republicans continue to help him.

SCIUTTO: And you, by the way, were not the only one who tried to get the president to call them off. We know that included right up to the Republican leadership, Kevin McCarthy.

January 6th hearings, they are coming up. The committee says that it will be presenting not just evidence we're familiar with, but new evidence. They say potentially damning for some senior officials right up to the former president.

What new evidence are you looking for?

COHEN: I'm looking for involvement of Republican legislators who denied that they met with President Trump on January 6th and soon before. But we have proof through Mark Meadows' emails and other evidence that they did, in fact, meet and that they worked with him. And there were several legislators who have denied being involved, but they are involved, and it went to the highest powers. They were all close to Meadows. They all encouraged Meadows. I think we're going to see that and we're going to see how much Trump was involved.

Trump ran this show. He ran it from the time he lost the election in November, and he did it with his son - with his son - or sons and all of his henchmen up there. Mark Meadows was part of it. And they were willing to have Mike Pence hung and thought that would have been a good thing. Nobody knows yet who brought that gallows, or constructed that gallows on the Capitol grounds, but that was done with the purpose to intimidate, to instill fear and possibly, I think, to be used.

SCIUTTO: We know that -- we believe that Mark Meadows -- sorry, rather -- that Pence's chief of staff will testify in these hearings. Pence is seemingly making bones about possibly challenging Trump for the Republican nomination in 2024.

Do you believe the former vice president should testify? I mean he was in that basement safe room for hours on January 6th.

COHEN: If I were he, I would. I think I'd put a threat to my life. And there's a definite threat to Mike Pence's life. The testimony from some of the indicted and I think some of the same - some of the people who pled guilty said they wanted to grab Mike Pence and they - and Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell and grab them by the - the head or the hair and pull them down the steps of the Capitol. They wanted to do them harm. And they wanted to kill them. And if it was me, if I was Mike Pence, I would certainly want to see the public to know that and justice to be rained down on those individuals that tried to overturn our government, which is the most egregious thing that can be done to somebody who believes in government, takes an oath to the Constitution, and to kill that person. And Mike Pence's life was at stake.

SCIUTTO: Historians have wondered, and sometimes on this broadcast, what Watergate would have resulted in, in the age of partisan right wing media. If there was a story line that came through, a significant part of the population, different from the facts as we knew them. We're going to get a test now with these January 6th hearings, at least on the first one. We know that Fox will not be airing them.

I wonder, what is the significance of that, in your view, and how can the committee, how can Democrats get through to a significant portion of the country, with the results of this investigation?

COHEN: It's going to be difficult. I know CNN is -- the new leadership is looking toward going toward -- more toward the middle and getting a broader viewership. But Fox has the predominance of Trump supporters and Republicans and it's harder to get the news through Fox than it is to get it in Russia through the Russian television. They will not run the hearings. They will probably not report much on them. If they do, they'll mostly have Jim Jordan and Elise Stefanik saying things that Democrats are communists and pedophiles and you name it.

So, it's hard to get across to them. But there's a middle ground. There's what we always call the suburban housewife, independents, who will listen and who will recoil at what they learn about the president's direct involvement and direction. The fact that on the day of the insurrection, instead of acting to protect the Capitol and legislature, he was enjoying it.

[09:15:08]

He was watching it on television, and he was cheering for the - for his team to win. And that was for America to lose.

So, I think the hearings are going to be very important. Comparing it to Watergate, this is Watergate with capital letters and exclamation points. Now, Nixon was wrong. He was a crook. He sent some of his people to break into the Democratic headquarters. He didn't send his people to break into the Capitol and take over the government and intimidate, threaten and possibly kill Congress people and senators. There are no coward Bakers (ph) around today who would go to the president and say you must resign.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

Congressman Steve Cohen, appreciate having you back on the broadcast.

COHEN: Thank you, Jim.

HARLOW: Great interview.

All right, still to come, heart-wrenching new details from inside of the Uvalde school shooting from a teacher who survived being shot. He says he pretended to be dead for 77 minutes before police killed that gunman, next.

SCIUTTO: Yes, that teacher lost all of his students.

Also ahead today, seven states holding key primaries. Why California's elections could be a bellwether for Democrats in November.

Plus, the British prime minister, Boris Johnson, has survived a confidence vote, but only just. For how long?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:20:43]

SCIUTTO: Today marks two weeks since 19 students and two teachers were shot and killed at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas. We are now hearing from a fourth grade teacher there who was shot, lost all 11 students in his class. All 11 students. He says, and, of course, how could this not be true, that nothing could have prepared him for what happened there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARNULFO REYES, TEACHER WHO WAS SHOT AT ROBB ELEMENTARY SCHOOL: I told my kids to act like I'm -- they're asleep. So I'm going to act like I'm asleep also. And I prayed and prayed that I would not hear none of my students talk.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you -- you thought you were going to die?

REYES: Yes, ma'am.

One of the students from the next door classroom was saying, officer, we're in here. We're in here. And then -- but they had already left. And then he got up from my -- behind my desk and he walked over there and he shot over there again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many students were in your classroom when the shooter came in?

REYES: Eleven students.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So the shooter killed every single student in your classroom?

REYES: Yes, ma'am. That's when I got to thinking, you know, this family lost one -- this family lost one -- I lost 11 that day. And went to my parents and said, I'm sorry. I tried my best with what I was told to do. Please don't be angry with me.

I will go anywhere, to the end of the world, to not let my students die in vain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: What an interview.

SCIUTTO: Goodness (ph).

HARLOW: Our Rosa Flores joins us from Uvalde, Texas.

Oh, Rosa, to hear him say, I lost 11, what more have you learned?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Poppy, it's very difficult to follow that. We, of course, are here on the ground, chasing answers, trying to get answers, trying to press elected officials here, state officials, trying to get answers for this community. This community wants answers. And that's exactly why we are here.

I can tell you that this city of Uvalde website posted that there is a special city council session today. It is unclear what time this session will begin. But we plan to be there. And there's a few things we will be looking for. First of all, will city officials make a statement? Will they comment? They haven't made a statement in days.

Also, will Pete Arredondo be present? He is the new city council member and he is also the chief of police at the school and the incident commander at the time of the shooting. So we will be there. We will see if he makes statements and to see if he answers questions.

Meanwhile, Texas Governor Greg Abbott directing all school-based resource officers to get a 16-hour course on active shooters. This is a course that's designed by Texas State University. It is nationally renowned. It's considered the best in the business. This is a very intensive 16-hour course.

Now, the teacher that you just heard from, Arnulfo Reyes, he's an elementary schoolteacher who spoke to ABC News. And after that gut- wrenching moment that you listened to just moments ago, he said that he can't forgive police officers because police officers had bulletproof vests, and he had nothing. He had absolutely nothing to try to defend those children.

And about training, he had this to say. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARNULFO REYES, TEACHER WHO SURVIVED UVALDE SCHOOL SHOOTING : It all happened too fast. Training, no training, all kinds of training, nothing says you ready -- gets you ready for this.

We trained our kids to sit under the table. And that's what I thought, you know, at the time.

[09:25:05]

But we set them up to be like ducks. You can give us all the training you want, but it's - but laws have to change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: And, Poppy, he says that he had to play dead for 77 minutes.

Poppy.

HARLOW: Unthinkable.

SCIUTTO: Sixteen hours of training to face a gunman like that.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Rosa Flores, thanks very much.

HARLOW: Thank you, Rosa.

Senate Republicans are expected --

SCIUTTO: This is not right.

HARLOW: Senate Republicans are expected to talk about the ongoing bipartisan gun control negotiations today. Republican leaders will gauge what measures their members are willing to support. Bipartisan negotiators are considering measures to raise the age to buy a semi- automatic gun from 18 to 21, potentially expanding background checks and establishing federal incentives for states to pass red flag laws.

Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer would like a deal done, or at least a framework agreed upon this week. Both sides, though, uncertain whether they can get there. Two key Republican senators have signaled that it is unlikely Congress will raise the age for purchasing a semi- automatic weapon. All of this as today marks the 158th day of the year. And the United States has already suffered at least 246 mass shootings. Looking at these numbers, the U.S. is currently on pace to match or surpass last year's record for the most mass shootings in a year. That's according to the Gun Violence Archive.

Well, things can change. They can change on a state level. They can change in a state led by Republicans. Our next guest helped draft that bipartisan gun legislation that passed in Florida three weeks after the Parkland school shooting that killed 17.

Watch part of this speech, then Florida State Representative Jared Moskowitz gave about a teacher that kept his son safe while that teacher's own daughter was murdered at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JARED MOSKOWITZ (D), FLORIDA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: That writing class was going on in Parkland on the afternoon of February 14th, around the corner from Douglas. And that class was taught by Jen Guttenberg. You see she lost her daughter Jaime while she was teaching my son how to write. She put my kid in a closet when her daughter died.

I wanted to say thank you at the funeral. I didn't know how to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Jared Moskowitz joins me now. He attended Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. Is currently a Broward County commissioner. He's running for a Democrat -- as a Democrat for Congress.

Commissioner, thank you very much.

FMR. STATE REP. JARED MOSKOWITZ (D-FL): Good morning, Poppy.

HARLOW: Good morning.

You wrote a piece in "The Sun Sentinel," and here's part of it. Quote, the United States of America should be able to keep a simple promise to parents, when you drop off your kids at school, you get to pick them up alive.

MOSKOWITZ: Yes, it seems pretty basic.

HARLOW: Just reading -- I was just going to say, just reading that as a parent, every day I wait for 3:00. Every day I wait for 3:00, right? And then I feel better after 3:00 when they're on their way home safe. And it shouldn't be that way. And I - I just wonder if you have the faith that, for example, Chris Murphy in the Senate said he had this weekend that, you know, he's more confident than ever that something will get done federally.

MOSKOWITZ: Yes, it seems pretty basic. I mean when I was writing that op-ed, I thought to myself, wow, what a failure of this country. Don't get me wrong. We live in the greatest country in the world, but what a failure of this country that we can't make a simple promise to parents that when you drop your kid off at school, you don't have to worry about picking them up.

You know, look, I don't know what's going on in the Senate. Obviously, I'm not privy to those conversations. Chris Murphy, Senator Chris Murphy, said he's looking at Florida as an example and that he's hopeful.

And, here in Florida, we got A plus rated members of the NRA, completely controlled by Republicans in the House and the Senate, Rick Scott, who's no moderate, to raise the age to 21, to institute waiting periods, red flag laws, hundreds of millions of dollars for school safety and mental health and not one of them lost an election over it. So, to the Republicans in Washington, D.C., you can side with the kids and your political career is going to be fine.

HARLOW: And you said that in your remarks there. I watched the entirety of them on the floor a few years saying, don't side with me, side with the parents.

One of the things you did is that you took your Republican counterparts, as I understand it, to your alma mater, to your school, right, and to the scene of the mass shooting and said, look at this. And I wonder what your advice might be for Republican lawmakers in Texas, for example, in the wake of Uvalde, and any lawmaker there looking to change something.

[09:30:01]

MOSKOWITZ: Yes, I mean, listen, it wasn't some strategy I had, it just felt natural. And, obviously, it was extremely impactful.