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Heart-Wrenching New Details From Teacher Who Survived Shooting; Bipartisan Gun Reform Talks Reach Critical Stage; Proud Boys Leader, Four Top Members Charged With Seditious Conspiracy. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired June 07, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: It's the top of the hour. Good morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

We are following two majors this hour. Just two days before the January 6th hearings begin, the Justice Department escalated the charges against a far-right group that played a key role in the violence that day. Several members of the Proud Boys group are now charged with seditious conspiracy. We are learning a Capitol police officer who was injured in an altercation with that group will be one of the first people to testify Thursday during the January 6th committee's primetime public hearing.

HARLOW: Also this morning, fast-moving developments on the efforts to get some form of gun legislation passed on Capitol Hill and what, by all accounts, is a critical week. Details on what could be included in a bipartisan deal and what is likely going to be left out.

SCIUTTO: And will they take action this time? We'll see.

Those negotiations are happening, though, as we hear heartbreaking new details about what happened inside Robb Elementary School, I mean, frightening details, frankly. It's two weeks ago today.

HARLOW: This is an interview you're about to hear with ABC News of a fourth grade teacher, Arnulfo Reyes, who says initially he -- who says he initially told his students to pretend that they were asleep when all of this began shortly after he came face-to-face with the gunman and was shot twice and then he played dead for over an hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARNULFO REYES, TEACHER WHO SURVIVED UVALDE SCHOOL SHOOTING: I told my kids to act like they're asleep, so I'm going to act like I'm asleep also. And then I prayed and prayed that I would not hear none of my students talk.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You thought you were going to die?

REYES: Yes, ma'am.

One of the students from the next door classroom was saying, officer, we're in here, we're in here. And then -- but they had already left. And then he got up from behind my desk and he walked over there and he shot over there again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Our Rosa Flores joins us now from Uvalde, Texas. He also had some very strong words for the first responders, Rosa.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He did, Poppy. He said that he can't forgive police because he says he heard them outside this classroom, in the hallway. He says he also heard children calling for help at the same time, and then goes on to say the police probably didn't hear the children.

On this day, he also says, of course, this was a very normal day early on, before this shooting unfolded. Students were getting awards, so parents were stopping by. Some of the parents took their children home that day. I talked to people who have said that their children asked them to go home, even though they normally would want to stay at school.

There're so many things were transpiring on this very day, including these intense moments that this teacher describes, when he says to ABC News that the children first heard the gunshots, asked him what was happening, what was going on. That's when he says that he told them to go under the table. And then he says that the shooter was right there in front of him and he started shooting first at the teacher.

The teacher says that, at that point, he couldn't move. He got shot multiple times. And then he says that the shooter turned the weapon on his students. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REYES: Just bullets everywhere, and then I just remember Border Patrol saying, get up, get up. And I couldn't get up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you feel abandoned in that moment by police, by the people who were supposed to protect you?

REYES: Absolutely. After everything, I get more angry because you have a bullet proof vest, I had nothing. I had nothing. You're supposed to protect and serve. There is no excuse for their actions. And I will never forget them.

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I lost 11 that day. And (INAUDIBLE), I'm sorry, I tried my best. That's what I was told to do. Please don't be angry with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP) FLORES: Poppy and Jim, it's just gut-wrenching to hear this teacher talk about those moments, and then say sorry, but he has nothing to say sorry for. And he was talking about training, the governor of this state now asking all of the school resource officers to go train. But take the words from this teacher. He says laws need to change. There's only so much training that can happen. Laws in the state need to change is his message. Jim, Poppy?

SCIUTTO: And the teacher said it happened so quickly, right? Hours of training, a guy walks in there with that weapon. That was his answer to that proposal. Rosa Flores, thanks so much.

All right, so what changes? In just hours, Republican Senate leaders will meet with their members to gauge support for possible gun reform measures. But two key Republicans who are part of the ongoing bipartisan negotiations are signaling that raising the age to purchase semiautomatic weapons to 21 is likely off the table.

HARLOW: Our Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju joins us from Capitol Hill. Manu, I mean, you heard Rosa's reporting there, and everyone, everyone is looking at Washington to act finally. Where are we?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's the big question, is can they get a deal? That is the discussion that was underway right now. The hope among a small bipartisan group of negotiators is that they can find a deal, a narrow deal, not as far as a lot of Democrats in particular would like, because it would not restrict access to firearms, but issues dealing with the mental health problems in this country, beefing up school security, potentially dealing with those so-called red flag laws, allowing local authorities to take away guns from individuals deemed a risk, changes to the background check system, so people who are under 21 can have their juvenile records searched before gun purchase is finalized.

But one of the big pushes here is to raise the age from 18 to 21 for individuals seeking to purchase those semiautomatic rifles, like AR- 15s that have been used in so many of these massacres. The Republicans who are involved in these talks are making very clear that raising the age almost certainly will not be part of the discussion, including senator Thom Tillis, who I just caught up with moments ago. He indicated that raising the age will not be part of any final deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Why not raise the age to 21 for people buying semiautomatic rifles?

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): We're talking about a lot of things, and what we're talking about most are background checks, juvenile records, the areas where we can get consensus. That can be in the discussion. But right now, we're trying to work on things where we have agreement.

RAJU: Why don't you have agreement on that?

TILLIS: We've got a lot of people in the discussion. We have got to get 60 votes. Hopefully, we get 75 votes on this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So, that is the big question here, can they get 60 votes? Of course, in the United States Senate, you need 60 votes to overcome a filibuster. There are 50 Democrats and there are ten Republicans that they would need at least to do just that. So, the sales job will happen behind the scenes today when both Democrats and Republicans will each separately talk about these issues, see if they can get closer to consensus. But very clear there, one key aspect of raising the age of purchasing those semiautomatic rifles, not going to be part of the final discussion.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And that pushes within the Republican Party, because we now see that Joe Manchin has said he would support such a change. So, we'll see where the agreement comes in a bipartisan fashion.

Manu Raju on the Hill, thank you so much.

Joining me now to discuss is Jerry Dyer, he's a Republican, mayor of Fresno, California. He served himself 40 years in the Fresno Police Department, including 18 years as chief before being elected mayor. Mayor, thanks you for taking the time this morning.

MAYOR JERRY DYER (R-FRESNO, CA): You bet, Jim. Thank you for having me on.

SCIUTTO: I've asked law enforcement in multiple cities for years whether they want more or fewer guns, whether they want stricter or looser gun laws. The answer is consistent. But I want to ask you, given your experience in law enforcement, what helps fight gun violence? What makes cities safer?

DYER: Well, you know, I'm not the anti-gun person. I issued thousands of concealed weapons permits as a police chief. But I am anti-gun violence. And there are a number of things that we have not done yet as a nation that perhaps California has, in terms of stricter gun regulations and in terms of access, restricting those individuals who are trying to get a firearm, from getting a firearm.

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So, from a national perspective, there has to be universal background checks on any exchange of a gun, whether that's through the -- from a licensed dealer, online, or person-to-person, that's first and foremost, universal background checks. And, unfortunately, that does not occur today.

And I also believe there has to be stricter regulations on ghost guns. Any 3D purchased out there or 3D-made firearm has to have strict regulations. Those guns cannot be traced and they're ending up in the hands of the wrong people.

SCIUTTO: I feel I could have asked you that question after, say, El Paso and Dayton. The last time we had something of a push, after Parkland, after Sandy Hook, and you likely would have given the same answer. But you captured the Ground Hog Day nature of these negotiations when you told The New York Times, it isn't until the emotion passes that reasonable minds can come together, but by then, the sense of urgency is left and then nothing gets done.

Do you -- and in your conversations with the Hill, do you feel any different momentum or push now?

DYER: Well, I think the difference is today, Jim, is that the sense of urgency is not leaving, because the frequency of these types of shootings are occurring more and more. You know, if you look at what we just went through with Uvalde, Tulsa, Philly, Phoenix, Chattanooga, and the cities go on and on, the next shooting is tomorrow. And so that sense of urgency isn't leaving us and that sense of emotion is high and, unfortunately, that emotion is what drives people into their corners, political extremism, which is what is preventing us from getting things done.

And it is time for people to come together sensible solutions. There is no silver bullet, there is no single solution to solving this. It deals with making sure that we're resourcing mental health systems, restricting the access of firearms to folks that should not have it, more enforcement, universal back ground checks, sharing intelligence. So, all of those things have to occur. But I believe the time is now.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this, oftentimes in situations like this, you will hear from Republicans who say protect, harden whatever the target is, harden the schools, I guess harden grocery stores, harden graduation parties, wherever these shootings took place, and one of the proposals is to either train teachers more to respond to this, or arm teachers.

For someone who worked in law enforcement and now runs a major city, is that an adequate response?

DYER: Well, certainly you have to target hardened locations like schools, vulnerable populations. But you're right, you can only target and harden so much. And pretty soon, you've turned everything into some type of a militarized encampment. And that's not what we want. That's not the school we want our children going into. There are some security measures that need to be taken for sure.

But the reality is, it's about who -- no matter how much you secure your facility, there's always going to be a possibility somebody can access it. And so what we need to do is really focus on those people who are carrying out the violence, the gun violence. And we see it across America, unfortunately, on a daily basis, the gun violence with gangs, the gun violence that occurs with domestic violence and disputes. But these mass shootings have just started to increase with more and more frequency.

And I don't believe the future is going to be any better when it comes to mass shootings. We can control gang violence and we can control some other violence that we see locally but these mass shootings are starting to occur so often and breed other copycat-type killings that I'm fearful as a mayor and a former police chief that if we don't do something now, this is going to become the norm in America. SCIUTTO: Wow. Well, it's a sobering warning given your experience. Mayor Jerry Dyer, we do appreciate you joining us this morning.

DYER: Thank you, Jim.

HARLOW: Up next, the leaders of the Proud Boys now accused of seditious conspiracy for their role on the Capitol attack. We have details on what prosecutors have to prove to make those charges stick.

Also, the Trump campaign instructed a group of Georgia Republicans to meet secretly in 2020 as they created a plan to try to overturn the election results. What we're learning from a newly revealed email.

SCIUTTO: Why in secret?

And it is primary day in seven states. Why many are focusing on the mayor's race in Los Angeles.

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SCIUTTO: The Justice Department is leveling its most serious charges yet in its investigation of the January 6th Capitol attack, indicting the head of the Proud Boys, Enrique Tarrio, and four other leaders of the far-right group with seditious conspiracy.

HARLOW: Prosecutors accuse the five defendants of working together to intimidate members of Congress and law enforcement, prompting them to flee and preventing them from performing their official duties of certifying Joe Biden's 2020 presidential victory.

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Joining me now is Norm Eisen, former House Judiciary Special Counsel in former President Trump's first impeachment trial, he's also a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. Norm, thanks very much for the time.

NORM EISEN, FORMER HOUSE JUDICIARY SPECIAL COUNSEL IN TRUMP'S FIRST IMPEACHMENT TRIAL: Thanks for having me.

HARLOW: No question, seditious conspiracy is a very serious charge. The bar is also really high to successfully prosecute on it. Just how high? What do they have to prove here?

EISEN: Well, the -- it is a very unusual charge, very seldom brought. What they're going to have to show is that Tarrio, that the Proud Boys, two or more of them entered into a conspiracy, that is an agreement to overthrow, to put down, or in various ways, to interfere by force with the operation of the United States government.

This was a plan, however, as they plead with a lot of evidence in the complaint, this was a plan to do just that, to block the certification of the lawfully elected president, Joe Biden, to block his electors being recognized in Congress on January 6th, and it's a strong case. HARLOW: So, Norm, you wrote a piece leading up to these hearings. And you say when it comes to measuring the success of the January 6th committee's public hearings, which again start in primetime on Thursday night, that it will depend on the achievement of three objectives. Can you lay out for folks what those are?

EISEN: Yes. Number one, the committee must get the truth to the American people, and not just the truth of what happened on January 6th. There was a long run-up and the big lie is still burning strong with hundreds of candidates or bills around the country attacking our election process. So, they need to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth and the big truth to counteract the big lie.

Second, it's very important that they not only put forward legislative proposals. We know legislation is very tough in our log-jammed Congress these days, but that they also go directly to the American people to motivate action, including responding to some of these candidates, not a partisan issue. These are candidates who are attacking our democracy.

And then third and most importantly, the single -- in my view, the single most important viewers of these hearings, the prosecutors, like the D.A., Fani Willis, in Georgia, she's got a pretty active grand jury, and federal prosecutors. The hearings have to speak to them.

So, if they get out the whole truth, if they really move the American people to defend our democracy, including in the midterms and if they spur criminal prosecutions, if warranted, the hearings will have achieved their objectives.

HARLOW: I want your take on some recent Axios reporting that the committee, largely aligned in the goals of getting -- or fully aligned in the goals of getting the truth to the American people, is, though, some members are divided on what recommendations to make after the public hearings, specifically when it comes to sweeping election law reform. The Axios reporting was that Liz Cheney and Jamie Raskin are pretty much on opposite sides of the page when it comes to those recommendations.

You say, look, it would be better to spur action at the ballot box. What do you mean?

EISEN: Well, just recognizing that the committee has been an extraordinary bipartisan success, but there are going to be differences from time to time, like on legislation, and Congress is log jammed. After Watergate, we got major remediate legislation. That's going to be very tough here.

HARLOW: Norm, I'm so sorry to interrupt. I do want to take our viewers to this Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on the wake of the tragic mass shooting in Buffalo. Right now, this is Garnell Whitfield Jr. whose mother, Ruth, was killed in that shooting. He was also on scene as a former fire commissioner. Let's listen.

RICHARD GARNELL JR., SON OF RUTH WHITFIELD, WOMAN KILLED IN BUFALLO MASS SHOOTING: -- and my father's soul mate for 68 years. She was a person who held us together, probably just like your mothers did for your families. What I loved most about her was the way she loved her family unconditionally, sacrificing everything for us.

She visited my father at the nursing home where he's lived for the past eight years almost every day, including on the day she was murdered, to ensure he got the care that he needed from the nursing home and to supplement that care with her own personal and loving touch.

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Our lives are forever changed, forever damaged by an act of profound hate and evil and nothing will ever take away the hurt, the pain, or the hole in our hearts. For her to be murdered, taken away from us by someone to full of hate is impossible to understand and even harder to live with. But we're more than hurt. We're angry. We're mad as hell because this should have never happened.

We're good citizens, good people. We believe in God. We trust in God. But this wasn't an act of God. This was the act of a person, and he did not act alone. He was radicalized by white supremacists, whose anger and hatred were metastasized like a cancer by people with big microphones in high places screaming at black people were going to take away their jobs and opportunities.

Every enforcement agency charged with protecting the homeland has conducted risk and threat analysis and determined that white supremacy is the number one threat to the homeland, and yet, nothing has been done to mitigate it or eradicate it.

We are people of decency. We are taught to love even our enemies. But our enemies don't love us. So, what are we supposed to do with all that anger and all of our pain? Do you expect us to continue to just forgive and forget over and over again? And what are you doing? You're elected to protect us, to protect our way of life.

I ask every one of you to imagine the faces of your mothers as you look at mine, and ask yourself, is there nothing that we can do? Is there nothing that you personally are willing to do to stop the cancer of white supremacy and the domestic terrorism it inspires? Because if there is nothing, then respectfully, senators, you should yield your positions of authority and influence to others that are willing to lead on this issue. The urgency of the moment demands no less.

My mother's life mattered. My mother's life mattered. Your actions here today will tell us how much it matters to you. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Mr. Whitfield. Professor Turley?

SCIUTTO: Garnell Whitfield testifying there. He lost his mother in the Buffalo shooting. And it was notable, Poppy, to hear him point the finger of responsibility directly to rhetoric. He spoke of people screaming from high places that blacks are going to take your jobs. Remember, the shooter here, driving from hours away with a target, with black people in mind, right, that -- driven, Mr. Whitfield was saying there, by some of that rhetoric. HARLOW: Yes, that's a great point, Jim, and also what he said at the end there to the senators directly on the Judiciary Committee. If you are not willing to act, cede your power to people who will take action.

Of course, we're monitoring this very closely, this Judiciary Committee hearing and we'll be right back.

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