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New January 6 Evidence Emerging; Interview With Los Angeles, California, Police Chief Michel Moore; Interview With Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Police Chief Jeffrey Norman; Gun Safety Negotiations Continue on Capitol Hill. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired June 07, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: He was also the host of "Washington Week" on PBS. He worked as a CNN special correspondent and election analyst for the 1992 and 1996 general election.

Ken Bode survived by his wife, two daughters, a brother and two grandsons. He was wicked smart and very, very funny.

Thanks for your time today on INSIDE POLITICS. Hope to see you tomorrow.

Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello, and thanks for being here. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

Once again, Americans wait to see if their elected leaders will finally act. After a years-long stalemate in Congress, Senate Republicans and Democrats could iron out a compromise on new gun reform legislation this week. It's shaping up to be a narrow package, but something is better than nothing, because 2022 is on pace to be the worst year for mass shootings in U.S. history.

It's only June, and there have already been at least 247. That's more than one per day. In fact, it's closer to two per day. We're still learning more about one of those shootings. Two weeks after 19 children and two teachers in Uvalde, Texas, were killed inside their grade school, a teacher who was shot multiple times describes the horror of watching every single one of his students get slaughtered as police waited outside.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARNULFO REYES, WOUNDED IN UVALDE SCHOOL SHOOTING: Just bullets everywhere.

And then I just remember Border Patrol saying: "Get up. Get up." And I couldn't get up.

QUESTION: Did you feel abandoned in that moment by police, by the people who are supposed to protect you? REYES: Absolutely. After everything, I get more angry, because you

have a bulletproof vest. I had nothing. I had nothing. You're supposed to protect and serve. There is no excuse for their actions.

And I will never forgive them. I lost 11 that day. And I do want to tell my parents that I'm sorry. I tried my best with what I was told to do.

Please don't be angry with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: That man is a hero.

The Uvalde district attorney says it will be awhile before federal and state probes into that shooting are finished. Right now, an emergency City Council meeting is under way in Uvalde over potentially extending the mayor's emergency declaration there.

Let's get you to Capitol Hill now with CNN's Manu Raju.

And, Manu, we are learning President Biden has officially gotten involved in these gun reform negotiations. What can you tell us?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Chris Murphy, the lead Democratic negotiator, just met with President Biden.

It was simply a meeting, in the words of Murphy, to touch base with the president about where these talks are going. The talks are expected to be around a small set of issues, a narrow set of issues, not going as far as Democrats in particular would like to restrict access to guns, but they're looking at provisions to incentivize states to move forward on so-called red flag laws to give authorities the right to take away guns from individuals deemed a risk.

They're also looking at new ways of doing a background checks to allow those background checks to access juvenile records, particularly for 18-to-20-year-olds, something that could potentially lead to a waiting period of sorts for those individuals.

But they are not going as far as raising the age of purchasing those semiautomatic rifles. That's something Republicans say simply does not have enough consensus to get support, even though there are a number of these mass shootings have occurred from individuals under 21 using the AR-15-style weapons, and some Republicans also defending the need for those weapons.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): In my state, they use them to shoot prairie dogs and other types of varmints. And so I think that there are legitimate reasons why people would want to have them. And I think the challenge you have already is that there are literally millions of them available in this country.

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): I don't think we should incentivize it. I mean, I don't particularly like the red flag laws. I mean, I think that this is -- when you're taking away somebody's Second Amendment rights when they have not yet committed a crime, and they're not there to defend themselves -- most of those proceedings are ex parte proceedings.

So the defendant is not present. His or her lawyer is not present. I got a lot of concerns with that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So that's the big question is whether or not there will be enough Republicans that will get on board to break a GOP-led filibuster, if they are even able to get a deal, which is still an open question at this point.

There are still major issues there to sort through, including the price tag with dealing with some of the mental health provisions, whether Republicans will insist on spending cuts to offset those, as well as some of the policy provisions. Right now, behind the scenes, the Democrats and Republicans are having their weekly lunches.

They're getting briefings from the members who are involved in those negotiations. So, the question is, can they get a deal? Can they get the votes? And then what will this ultimate deal look like? All big questions as these negotiations are picking up pace here today and in the days ahead -- Ana.

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CABRERA: Thank you, Manu Raju, for that play-by-play.

It may be the staggering number of mass shootings lately that may finally spur action there in Washington, but those mass shootings account for just a sliver of gun violence in America. For example, in 2020, 513 people died in mass shootings in the U.S. That's a huge number, but that was only about 1.1 percent of all gun deaths in the U.S. that year.

As horrific as mass shootings are, they are not representative of the daily grind of gun tragedies in this country. It looks much more like this sample of headlines that came in overnight. Kentucky, man shot and killed deputy with hidden gun after arrest. Florida, mother charged after 2-year-old son fatally shoots father. Pennsylvania, three teens hospitalized after shooting in Philadelphia.

Day after day, there are dozens and dozens of casualties like this that don't make the national news.

Let's bring in two people are on the front lines of this surge in gun violence, Milwaukee Police Chief Jeffrey Norman and Los Angeles Police Chief Michel Moore.

Thank you, gentlemen, for taking the time. I know how busy your lives must be right now, as we look at the totality of what is happening here in America right now from these recent mass shootings carried out by teenagers with assault weapons, to the smaller-scale seemingly random acts of gun violence.

What is it like to be on the ground trying to combat this?

Chief Norman, I will start with you.

Chief Norman, can you hear me? It's Ana in New York.

Forgive me. We will try to establish our connection with Chief Norman.

I'm hoping Chief Moore can hear me.

Chief Moore, can you hear me? And what are your thoughts?

MICHEL MOORE, LOS ANGELES POLICE CHIEF: Good morning.

And, well, and here in Los Angeles, we have seen this increase in violent crime, particularly gun violence, with the -- in the last two years at levels that we have not seen in more than a decade. And one of the motivators of this, we think, is the ample supply of guns, particularly ghost guns, that are now being probably manufactured in people's homes and in their machine shops, if you will.

And the people acquiring those guns are people who are prohibited possessors. California is a Brady A state, meaning that it has substantial gun laws, gun control laws, and prohibited possessors is a major strength of its laws.

And yet we see, because of now the proliferation of these ghost guns, that you can buy it online, and people are buying them. They're building these guns that are fully functional assault weapons, pistols, rifles that are now ending up in the hands of violent assailants that are then going and using those weapons of war, if you will, in our streets.

So, in Los Angeles, it's a little different than we see in other parts of the country. We benefit by having added gun control laws, having background checks, having waiting periods. And I feel -- I -- my heart goes out to other parts of the country where you see these instances of mass violence and the tragedies.

But as you have indicated correctly, these are striking the sense of America's sense of safety and security, when a school can't be seen as safe and secure for our loved ones, for our young people. It's going to motivate us for change, I hope. The evolution of gun control, responsible, proper gun control is something that will improve our lives as Americans.

CABRERA: I know we're working still to establish a connection with Chief Norman, and I'm really hoping we can have a broader conversation here with both of you, because I know you're representative of different states and different parts of the country.

I do want to compare the key gun laws in these two states just to give our viewers a slice of how different it can be, depending on where you live. California requires universal background checks, a permit, registration, a 10-day waiting period. Wisconsin doesn't have any of those laws.

And as we just look at that comparison, I will note Wisconsin has a higher firearm death rate overall compared to California. That being said, Chief Moore, Los Angeles recently hit a 15-year high in gun violence. So are the tighter gun laws in California making a difference? What's your interpretation?

MOORE: Oh, I absolutely -- I have every confidence that they're making a difference.

Gun safety is much like automobile safety. Your efforts of dealing with it have to be incremental, have to be proportional. What we see here in Los Angeles and in California is the weakness is, is this area of now this development of these privately manufactured guns, that now two out of every 10 guns that we recover out on the street are these manufacturers that are off the books, if you will, that are manufactured in someone's machine shop.

So we have got to go at that. And I'm proud of the legislation that's being enacted here, both locally, as well as in the state, that's going to, I think, have an impact on traffickers, people who, frankly, are benefiting from the sale of these weapons to people who otherwise shouldn't have them.

[13:10:03]

The other major component here in Los Angeles is, we also have great relationships with our department of mental health professionals, our mental health workers that work diligently for both young and older Americans that are having mental health crises and our efforts to interact and deal with individuals going through these state of crises prior to them going operational.

It's a critical component for our communities also to work with place and work with school officials and mental health professionals and their own doctors to identify family members and those that are having -- that are falling down what I will say is a rabbit hole of crisis, of isolation, of feeling bullied, and feeling despondent and disconnected from society and resorting to violence for their 15 minutes, for their exacting of revenge.

And the ready access of weapons, of course, only makes that much easier.

CABRERA: Yes, the access of weapons.

Let me bounce back over now to Chief Norman. I understand he can hear me now.

Correct?

(LAUGHTER)

JEFFREY NORMAN, MILWAUKEE, WISCONSIN, POLICE CHIEF: Yes.

(CROSSTALK) CABRERA: OK. Excellent.

I know you may not have been able to hear the conversation that Chief Moore and I were having leading up until right now. So I just want to quickly remind our viewers and remind you that we were comparing the gun laws in California vs. Wisconsin. California has a lot tighter gun laws than Wisconsin.

Wisconsin has a higher death rate when it comes to gun violence, compared to California -- that is, Wisconsin has a higher death rate compared to California.

Do you think, Chief Norman, that stricter gun laws in Wisconsin would make your job easier? Are there any specific measures you want to see?

NORMAN: I think there's opportunity in looking at our gun laws, especially in regards to whether you want to regulate the high- capacity magazines, you want to look at what is the age limit.

I believe there is still some movement that could be made in regards to, what can we do as a group, agree upon, in regards to helping our community be safer? Our officers are definitely dealing with an unprecedented number of shootings and mass shootings. So there is a concern in regards to that we can do more than what we're doing right now.

CABRERA: Chief Norman, 16 people were shot in Milwaukee last month on a busy Friday night. At least 10 officers were nearby when that shoot- out started. We saw a similar scenario in Philadelphia's mass shooting this weekend, busy night out, gunfire breaks out, even with several police nearby.

If gun laws aren't necessarily keeping people safe, and the police presence isn't stopping these shootings, what is the answer?

NORMAN: I believe we can do more as a community.

CABRERA: Like what?

NORMAN: I believe there's an opportunity that -- well, we see people in regards to their mental health issues, challenges in regards to their isolation.

We see the anger. There's a lot of conflict out here. We need to be able to have each own the responsibility of intervening, as they say something. Say something. See something. The information that the police department, we receive, comes from the public.

So we have to have more communication with people who are dealing with individuals who are going through some challenging times and be able to have that type of communication and working with each other to be able to intervene.

Beyond even that, be able to help individuals, direct them to resources if the police department's not the right resource. Again, mental health is an issue within our country. Being able to be that response and be able to have the intervention is on the public to help us out with those type of challenges.

CABRERA: Let's just end here. And I want to hear from both of you.

Chief Moore, what's your message to Congress right now as they work to have some kind of consensus on gun reform legislation?

MOORE: The evolution of gun control, that we see what works. You have -- we have mentioned it time and time again

States that have stricter gun laws are safer states. There's fewer people that are dying at the hands of others with handguns and rifles. We see this with automobile safety. We see this in so much else -- of the rest of the part of our society. We need to do the same pursuit of safety through this, incremental, thoughtful reforms.

CABRERA: Chief Norman, your message?

NORMAN: I believe there's opportunity.

As we saw this situation in Texas, as you saw in the situation in Buffalo, New York, there's opportunity for us to be able to intervene. We regulate a lot of things. And I believe that there is common ground that both sides can find and what -- for safety.

So whether it's dealing with the age limit, whether it's dealing with the go the availability of weapons, there is an opportunity right now that we can take advantage of.

CABRERA: Chief Jeffrey Norman, Chief Michel Moore, thanks again for being part of the discussion of solutions and for all of your hard work and community service.

NORMAN: Thank you.

MOORE: Thank you.

CABRERA: We don't know what we will learn on Thursday's big hearing on the insurrection, but we are finding out more about who will be testifying, what that tells us.

[13:15:05]

Plus, a new study shows CEOs protected their paychecks and even beefed them up as workers lost theirs altogether during this pandemic. We have the breakdown ahead.

And make that 24 lawsuits against NFL quarterback Deshaun Watson. Another woman is accusing him of sexual misconduct, but will it jeopardize his career in the league or not?

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CABRERA: Damning new details on the Trump administration's push to overturn the 2020 election.

Federal prosecutors have obtained an e-mail showing how the Trump campaign directed so-called fake electors to meet in complete secrecy and to try to secure their objectives, this revelation coming just two days before the first prime-time hearing on January 6 this Thursday.

[13:20:11]

CNN justice correspondent Jessica Schneider joins us now.

Jessica, tell us about this e-mail.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Ana, this e-mail is just one more piece of evidence in what's becoming an intensifying probe by the Justice Department. And we also know the e-mail is in the hands of the January 6 Select Committee and the Fulton County district attorney, which, as we know, has impaneled this special grand jury to investigate Trump's attempts to overturn the election.

So our team led by Katelyn Polantz, they tracked down this e-mail. It was actually sent by Trump's Election Day operations lead in Georgia. His name is Robert Sinners. And he sent it to this alternate slate of Republican electors. They ultimately went to the Georgia state capitol on December 13, 2020. And they tried to cast what were illegitimate votes for Trump.

So here's part of the e-mail to them, where he's urging these alternate electors to keep their plot quiet, saying: "I must ask for your complete discretion in this process. Your duties are imperative to ensure the end result, a win in Georgia for President Trump, but will be hampered unless we have complete secrecy and discretion."

Now, their meeting was ultimately not under a shroud of secrecy. Local news cameras caught their arrival at the capitol. They ultimately, obviously, weren't successful in casting their alternate ballots. But we're getting a glimpse at this e-mail just as we have learned that the federal criminal investigation into this whole plot, it's grown in seriousness.

We know a federal grand jury subpoenaed documents about the plot. The FBI has interviewed witnesses. And it does represent this potential move by the DOJ to move beyond the prosecution of the hundreds of rioters we have already seen charged, and to the question of possible conspiracy, possible obstruction charges against the people in Trump's orbit who were trying to subvert the election, or, Ana, maybe even possible charges against the former president himself.

So a lot of eyes on the DOJ, especially as we inch closer toward the public hearings later this week on Thursday from the select committee and wondering, what will DOJ officials do next, Ana?

CABRERA: OK, Jessica Schneider, thank you for that update.

And we do have some details on moves the DOJ has taken. Just in the last 24 hours, we have learned new DOJ charges that are directly relating to the Capitol insurrection involve the leader of the far right extremist group Proud Boys and four other members of that group who are now accused of seditious conspiracy. This is the most serious charge levied yet in relation to the

insurrection. And if it sounds familiar, it's because it is the same charge leaders of the far right militia group the Oath Keepers are facing. So that's now two far right groups accused of forcefully trying to prevent the transfer of power.

Let's bring in CNN crime and justice reporter Katelyn Polantz now.

And, Katelyn, we're now learning that the Proud Boys' involvement in the insurrection and in the days leading up to it will be central to Thursday night's hearing. Explain.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes.

So, Ana, this is going to be a window into the Proud Boys on Thursday on Capitol Hill. We have already heard a lot about this group and their ties in politics and their right-wing extremism in court. They have been charged for some time. But the House does have lined up two people who were witnessing the Proud Boys both before January 6 and on that day.

One is Capitol Police Officer Caroline Edwards. She was injured on January 6. The other is a documentarian named Nick Quested. And Quested was embedded essentially with the Proud Boys before January 6. He also was on the ground with the Proud Boys leader, Enrique Tarrio, and his crew was tracking Tarrio as Tarrio was trying to leave the District right before the 6th, and met with the leader of the Oath Keepers, Stewart Rhodes, in a garage.

So, he might have footage of that, things to say about that. He also was with the Proud Boys on the ground on January 6. So Quested really gives us a bird's-eye view that he may be bringing in this House hearing, but also he's important and he's interesting here because he's the connective tissue between the Proud Boys case that the Justice Department has brought and this House hearing on Thursday.

So with the Justice Department's new sedition case, as much as the House may be asking Quested about what he witnessed with the Proud Boys and Tarrio, the Justice Department is also trickling out what they're learning in their case about Tarrio.

And one of the things that came in this new, more aggressive charge of seditious conspiracy against Tarrio and four others were text messages between Tarrio and an unnamed person on January 6. In that text -- an unnamed person writes to Tarrio the night of January 6: "Dude, did we just influence history?"

Tarrio writes back: "Let's see how the how this plays out."

And the unnamed person says: "They have to certify today or it's invalid."

That's all going on after the Congress had recessed. And it is part of this evidence in this new sedition case -- Ana.

[13:25:00] CABRERA: Katelyn Polantz, thank you.

That sets us up for the hearing on Thursday. And it also sets us up to the conversation now with former U.S. attorney Harry Litman. He's also a legal affairs columnist for "The L.A. Times" and host of the "Talking Feds" podcast.

So, Harry, seditious conspiracy, the most serious charge we have seen related to January 6. First, it was Oath Keepers facing this charge, now members of the Proud Boys. What does all that tell you?

HARRY LITMAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Well, it's especially interesting, Ana, that the Proud Boys are now facing it just a couple of days ago, as Katelyn says, because Enrique Tarrio isn't even there.

So they are shaping up to be and the documentarian, Nick Quested, who will testify on Thursday will reinforce this, the sort of leading kind of muscle, ruffian, sort of Hell's Angels role on the ground. They have plans to push on onlookers to actually breach the Capitol. And then, actually, they -- one of them is the one who first breaks the window, et cetera.

So this is now that we have had some trespass, we have had some destruction of property. We're now talking about, as you say, the most serious, essentially a charge of attempt to forcibly overthrow the government. And these guys are the leading spear on the ground.

And to the extent they hook up now with the other investigation in the Department of Justice of political leaders and officials, now you're talking about the whole grand story that the January 6 Committee wants to present starting Thursday.

CABRERA: Harry, specifically, Tarrio, you're right. He wasn't at the Capitol on January 6, which makes this even more interesting, because that's been a big part of his defense against charges related to January 6.

LITMAN: Right.

CABRERA: But I want to bring back that text message sent on January 6, where Tarrio appears to comment on Congress being evacuated from the chambers as the election certification was interrupted because of the insurrection.

Again, this text to Tarrio sent by an unnamed person: "Dude, did we just influence history?" Tarrio responds: "Let's first see how this plays out."

And that unnamed person responds: "They have to certify today or it's invalid."

How significant is that exchange?

LITMAN: I think it's very significant because, again, it shows plans not just of a kind of demonstration run amok turning into a kind of a riot, but a plan. What does it mean to influence history? Change and stop the certification.

What does it mean that it has to be today? If it's not today, we have overthrown the government. We have put Trump in. So that is clear evidence of what Quested, I think, is going to show in riveting documentary footage, actually planning not just to sort of make trouble and play a tough, but to change history, i.e., prevent the certification of the lawful winner of the election, Joseph Biden.

CABRERA: I wonder if Quested has even more evidence that he documented as he was spending all that time and that we will all get to see on Thursday.

Harry Litman, thank you very much for offering your expertise today.

LITMAN: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: Voters in seven states hitting the polls for primary day. What issues are driving them there? Harry Enten is with us to break it down.

And while workers took a hit, CEOs got to pay hike?

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