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Teacher Who Survived Uvalde Massacre: I Will "Never Forgive" Police; Son Of Buffalo Racist Massacre Victim Urges Senators To Act; Secret Service Considered Options To Get Trump To Capitol On 1/6; Voters In Seven States Head To Polls For Primaries Today. Aired 3- 3:30p ET

Aired June 07, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Top of the hour on CNN NEWSROOM. Good to have you. I'm Victor Blackwell.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: And I'm Alisyn Camerota. And something unusual just happened at the White House after Matthew McConaughey took the podium at this White House briefing moments ago. The Hollywood star is from Uvalde, Texas. And that, of course, is where 19 4th graders and two teachers were gunned down late last month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW MCCONAUGHEY, ACTOR AND UVALDE NATIVE: This time, it seems that something is different. There is a sense that perhaps there's a viable path forward, but every parent separately expressed in their own way to Camila and me, that they want their children's dreams to live on. That they want their children's dream to continue to accomplish something after they are gone. They want to make their loss of life matter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So he gave his perspective and then we also are hearing today a new and horrifying perspective from inside Robb Elementary.

BLACKWELL: Fourth grade teacher, Arnulfo Reyes, was feet away when the shooter killed all 11 students in the classroom. Reyes told ABC News he played dead for 77 minutes bleeding from multiple gunshot wounds. Reyes said at one point he heard a student in the connected classroom call out for police to help them, but police retreated and he's outraged over the lack of action by police. He says it's unforgivable.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARNULFO REYES, TEACHER WHO SURVIVED MASSACRE INSIDE CLASSROOM 111: Just bullets everywhere and then I just remember Border Patrol saying, "Get up. Get up." And I couldn't get up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you feel abandoned in that moment by police, by the people who are supposed to protect you?

REYES: Absolutely. After everything, I get more angry because you have a bulletproof vest, I had nothing. I had nothing. You're supposed to protect and serve. There is no excuse for their actions and I will never forget them. I lost 11 that day.

And I tell my parents, "I'm sorry. I tried my best of what I was told to do. Please don't be angry with me."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: CNN's Rosa Flores is in Uvalde, Texas for us. Rosa, can you imagine what that man lives with, what that man dreams at night. He's - he had to lie and play dead for 77 minutes while he listened to his students get killed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, it's unfathomable, especially because he goes on to say that he could hear children calling for help and that he could hear police officers in the hall. And in his mind the way that he was processing this, he was thinking the officers must not have heard the children, must not have heard what he was hearing as he was laying there, as you said, bleeding out from at least two gunshot wounds that we know of.

But let me take you through it, because this really is telling in what these children and what these teachers endured that day. According to Arnulfo Reyes, he spoke to ABC News, he says that that day his class had only 11 students because remember, this was close to the end of the school year, some of the children had gone home because earlier that day, there was an honor roll ceremony. Some of them received honor roll awards, the certificates and they had gone home with their parents.

There's 11 children in this classroom and they were watching a movie when gunshots could be heard. That's what the children first heard in that classroom. And, of course, they went to their teacher asking what's going on. Reyes says he didn't know exactly what was going on, but he says that he went with what his training showed him which was to take his students ask them to go under a table and pretend to be sleeping. That's when he says that he turned around and there he was the shooter right in front of him. He says that the shooter fired out him. Hit him at least twice, hit his arm, his lungs and his back. The teacher says that he couldn't move after that, obviously. And that's when the shooter turned the gun on his students. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REYES: It all happen too fast, training, no training, all kinds of training, nothing gets you ready for this. We trained our kids to sit under the table, and that's what I thought at the time, but we set them up to be like ducks.

[15:05:05]

You can give us all the training you want. But gun laws have to change.

(END VIDEO CLIP) FLORES: And Allison and Victor, you got to process this with me. He

goes on to say that he played dead for 77 minutes, God only knows what this man was going through as he was bleeding out. The classroom, obviously, surrounded by his students, hearing everything that was going on, as he mentioned, hearing police officers outside the door. He goes on to say that he was praying at that point in time and that at the end of the day, he learned that all of those 11 students did not survive. Alisyn? Victor?

CAMEROTA: Yes. I'm just not sure there is any processing that I'm not sure. With however many years there will ever be any processing that, as you say, Rosa, it's unimaginable. Rosa, thank you very much for the reporting.

BLACKWELL: Now, the devastation of gun violence and frustration over the lack of gun reform took center stage on Capitol Hill today. The son of 86-year-old Ruth Whitfield spoke to the Senate Judiciary Committee.

CAMEROTA: She was the oldest victim killed in that racist attack at the supermarket in Buffalo. That's where 10 black people were killed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARNELL WHITFIELD, JR., SON OF BUFFALO MASS SHOOTING VICTIM RUTH WHITFIELD: There is nothing and respectfully, senators, you should yield your positions of authority and influence to others that are willing to lead on this issue. The urgency of the moment demands no less. My mother's life mattered. My mother's life mattered and your actions here today would tell us how much it matters to you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: CNN senior correspondent - Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju joins us. So Manu, where are these talks now?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're still going on. It's still uncertain whether or not they can get a deal, but there are still some key issues they have to resolve and also some key questions, namely whether or not there'll be enough support in order to overcome a Republican-led filibuster. They need 60 votes in the U.S. Senate to get there.

But before that, they actually need to have a deal. And the deal that they're discussing is a narrow one, not going as far as a lot of Democrats would like, certainly not going to outlaw any sort of high powered semi-automatic rifles, also will not raise the age from 18 to 21. To buy those semi-automatic rifles, instead focusing on a handful of issues, investments in mental health, investments in schools security, also dealing with background checks, so people can actually look into the juvenile records of individuals buying those guns and also dealing with the issue of red flag laws (inaudible) to happen and a number of states have these laws so authorities can go in and take away from - guns from individuals who are deemed a security risk.

But there is still some pushback, especially from Republicans, some of them are concerned about those red flag laws, saying there needs to be more due process consideration and threatening to vote against a package if it's included.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU (off camera): Yes, they're trying to incentivize states to impose these red flag law.

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): That's a big concern to me.

RAJU (off camera): Why is it a concern?

HAWLEY: Well, because (inaudible) I mean, I don't particularly like the red flag laws. I mean, I think that this is - when you're taking away somebody's Second Amendment rights when they have not yet committed a crime and they're not there to defend themselves, most of those proceedings are ex parte proceedings, so the defendant is not present, his or her lawyer is present, I got all the concerns of that, so I wouldn't particularly want to encourage that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So there are still discussions happening today and into the days ahead, including a larger group, a bipartisan group of senators were expected to meet tomorrow, but they still have to finalize these agreements, they have to figure out how much it's going to cost, whether or not there's going to be spending cuts to offset those costs, so major questions ahead, even as there is optimism a deal can be reached. But still questions about whether that's actually true, guys?

BLACKWELL: All right. Manu Raju for us on Capitol Hill. Thank you very much. Let's discuss now with CNN Senior Law Enforcement Analyst and former Philadelphia Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey and CNN Political Commentator and former Congressman, Charlie Dent. Gentlemen, welcome back.

Chief, let me start with you and let's put the graphic backup of what is on the table. These are not topics on which they have reached a consensus but still they're discussing incentivizing states to pass red flag laws, no federal laws, potential for a waiting period for the semi-automatic rifle sales under 21, school safety, investments in mental health care, do you see anything on this list that would greatly significantly decrease the number of mass shootings and the gun violence in this country?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I mean, there is no magic formula. There is no one thing that's going to really stop it entirely, but it can make a difference. I mean we have to do something and so red flag laws, background checks, things like this can make a difference. The whole goal is to keep the guns out of the hands of people who should not have them.

[15:10:01]

But it's not just on Congress. I mean even at the local level, I think more has to be done. These shootings continue and we're talking about mass shootings. But we have shootings every single day in cities across America. I mean, we talked about Philly yesterday, having a mass shooting. Well, last night, they had a triple shooting, three teenagers shot. I mean, it didn't qualify to be considered a mass shooting, but as three young people shot, it happens all the time. So something has to happen and there has to be prosecution for the people who are illegally possessing these guns, illegally using these guns. So it can't just be about the laws, it's also enforcement.

CAMEROTA: Charlie, we sometimes hear lawmakers say this time is different. This time feels different. What are you picking up?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first, I want to say I agree with everything that Chief Ramsey just said. He's a very effective chief in Philadelphia and we thank him for his service. But I will tell you that, look, we have to do something.

As the chief said, none of these - there's no magic, there's no silver bullet and I hate to use that term, but there's nothing here that will solve this problem, but we should do something. I think it's regrettable that we are not talking about raising the age limit to 21. That does not infringe anybody's Second Amendment rights, it really doesn't, red flag laws, I think makes sense.

Universal background checks do. They need to be expanded and, frankly, we need to clean up - tighten those background checks up. Because oftentimes, because of HIPAA laws, it's hard to transmit data or information from mental health institutions to the instant check system that has to be tightened up.

And as the chief just said too, at the local level and too many cities - I have two kids and a niece in Philadelphia, they hang out on South Street where that terrible shooting was over the weekend. And, frankly, at the local level right now in Philadelphia, they're not doing enough to prosecute people who are - who legally possess firearms. It's really - it's terrible what's happening in that city right now. When the chief was in charge, it was run much better. They had a much deeper commitment to public safety but we also need to have local prosecutors do their jobs and that simply isn't happening everywhere.

BLACKWELL: Congressman, let me stay with you, you said that the age minimum should be raised to 21 to buy these semi-automatic rifles.

DENT: Yes.

BLACKWELL: There's a poll out, that just came out, May 25th, do you support raising the legal age to buy illegal gun from 18 to 21, 72 percent of respondents support that. How does something with that level of support repeatedly get cast aside in these talks?

DENT: It's all about fear, Victor. In fact, universal background checks probably are closer to 90 percent public support and I'd like to point out to our viewers, I served in the Pennsylvania General Assembly in the 90s. We had a Republican Governor, Tom Ridge, and Republican legislature and we passed a law that would expand background checks to all private sales for pistols. We did it and the NRA supported it back then. They were part of a negotiation, nobody lost their election over it and there's no reason why we couldn't extend that to long guns.

And again, raising that age limit, I mean, it's already - I think the limit is already 21 for those who purchase pistols. But a long gun, I mean, it's really not any real infringement on anyone's rights. Remember they could carve out an exception for shotguns, but I think it's just that people are afraid they're afraid they're going to lose their primaries and that's why they don't want to step out on this one.

CAMEROTA: Charlie, it's just amazing to hear how much the tide has changed in the past two decades when you talk - when you describe what your experience was.

Chief, what about what Charlie had said earlier? Do you think that this is a problem, let's say, in Philadelphia at the prosecution level, why aren't prosecutors going after more gun crimes?

RAMSEY: I don't know if you can point to any one individual or group and say that they're the reason. I mean, this is something everybody's got a little piece of the problem and he also can have a piece of the solution. But there does have to be very vigorous prosecution of people who use guns to commit crime and everything shouldn't fall into the mental health. We just need better mental health. We do need better mental health.

But all these guys that are out here doing what they're doing here and shooting into crowds and so forth, believe me, they don't need therapy, they need jail. There's nothing wrong with them other than just being vicious and evil. And we've got to come to grips with the fact that there are people out there who just hurt other people and there is no valid reason for it. There needs to be consequences. So it's not all on prosecution, it's not all on police, it is not all on legislators, it's all of us. All of us are responsible and we need to step up.

BLACKWELL: Charles Ramsey, Charlie Dent, thank you.

DENT: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: The January 6 Committee will focus the first part of its primetime public hearings on the Proud Boys involvement in the insurrection. Two Witnesses who directly interacted with the members of that right-wing extremist group leading up to and during the riots are expected to testify on Thursday.

We're also learning new details about former President Trump's desire to who marched with his supporters to the Capitol on January 6th.

[15:15:04]

The Secret Service said they considered options to secure a motorcade for Trump, but ultimately decided against it. CAMEROTA: Joining us now is Josh Dawsey, one of The Washington Post

reporters who broke that story. Josh, great to see you. So wait a second, what happened? President Trump was really planning to walk with those protesters and the Secret Service shut it down?

JOSH DAWSEY, POLITICAL INVESTIGATIONS REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST: So the days leading up to the March on January 6th, in the rally, former President Trump repeatedly pressed his Secret Service detail, particularly Anthony Arnado, a top official who oversaw the Secret Service detail to let him marched to the Capitol and there were various contingencies put in place to try and arrange a safe route to the Capitol, but Secret Service did not believe that this was feasible, they did not believe that this was wise and prudent and they nixed this or they - with the cooperation of meeting in the White House who also did not like this idea.

The former president kept pushing, and pushing, and pushing and then on the whips on January 6th he makes this proclamation, I will be walking with you even though there was no plan in place to make that happen. So because of that, Secret Service scrambles, they have folks who immediately call the Metropolitan Police Department, the D.C. Police Department, which confirmed this to us on the record to say can we throw together at last minute motorcade route to safely shuttle the former president to the Capitol, and the D.C. Police Department said that that was not doable. And then the idea was eventually given up once and for all.

So what we reported is that over the course of the days leading up and even the day of the January 6th rally, former President Trump had an overwhelming desire to be part of the marchers who went to the Capitol.

BLACKWELL: And we remember that head of the rally there on the Ellipse, the president tweeted it'll be wild on that day. So once they actually called D.C. officials to try to secure this motorcade was the expectation then that although we have rebuffed these efforts over the past weeks, this is going to happen, whether we like it or not, they thought that the President really was going to demand that he be able to walk with his supporters.

DAWSEY: That's right, the Secret Service heard him make this proclamation in lifetime on the Ellipse and began trying to scramble to put together a last minute plan to make that happen. Eventually, that got to the head of his detail, and others in the White House, who caught it off.

One of the things that's interesting is that the January 6th committee has interviewed a number of top officials on the Secret Service, including the head of his detail for their report and has their firsthand accounts of both the behind the scenes plans and iterations or pushes whatever word you would choose to make this happen and why it did not happen.

CAMEROTA: And Joshua very quickly, I don't know if they've shared with you, but does it make them conclude that President Trump really did not know that there would be violence? I mean, that - everything you're saying suggests that if he was going to walk in the crowd, that then he certainly didn't want to expose himself to what ended up happening there.

DAWSEY: Right. We have no evidence to believe that he believed that the manifestation of this would be the kind of violence that we saw on January 6, but we do know that there were folks inside the White House who reported this last year, who knew there were threats of really malicious, pernicious actors coming to town who wanted to have upheaval in the United States government and folks were briefed on that.

Now, whether the former President knew that those people would be marching, we have no reason to know that, but there certainly were lots of intelligence that there were people coming to Washington who wanted to do potentially illegal or violent things that day.

Now, the former president says, when I interviewed him about this, said, patriotic and peacefully, all I wanted was to go down and make our voices heard and show why they should not certify the legal election. But it's hard to know what exactly he knew at the time.

CAMEROTA: Sure. Josh Dawsey, thank you very much for sharing your reporting with us. Really interesting.

DAWSEY: Thank you for having me.

CAMEROTA: It's primary day in seven states and one of the biggest things on the ballot is - ballot in one state is not a candidate, we'll tell you the details next.

BLACKWELL: And House Democrats are investigating foreign gifts given to then-President Donald Trump and people in his administration.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:24:04]

BLACKWELL: It's Election Day in seven states, voters will cast ballots in key primary races in California, Iowa, Montana, New Mexico, South Dakota, New Jersey and Mississippi.

CAMEROTA: CNN Senior Data Reporter Harry Enten joins us now. Harry, great to see you.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPOERTER: Nice to see you. That's a lot of states.

CAMEROTA: Yes, it is, but you can handle it.

ENTEN: I can try my best.

CAMEROTA: So let's start with the recall in California.

ENTEN: Yes. So oftentimes, this is primary day, but in fact, we're going to be talking first about the San Francisco District Attorney recall. Chesa Boudin is facing recall. It's a simple yes or no question on whether to recall him that got on the ballot, thanks to a petition drive. Why is this recall happening? He is being targeted because opponents think he isn't tough enough on crime and homelessness, also an issue there and that's something that we're seeing through a lot of the primaries so far this season against progressives.

BLACKWELL: And there's another progressive in the southern part of the state in a race you're watching.

ENTEN: Yes. So staying in the Golden State, I love the Golden State, why the heck not, though I am a New Yorker.

[15:25:02]

The Los Angeles mayoral nonpartisan primary, what we have is Karen Bass who has long thought of as the favorite, she is facing off against Rick Caruso and Kevin De Leon. Bass is a progressive, Caruso has charted up while he is running on a law and order campaign. Again, just like we saw on San Francisco, lawn order very prominent, but here's the key. If no candidate gets the majority, which is quite possible, given that we have a number of candidates beyond just the two, there will be a runoff in November, so we're not just watching who's leading tonight, we're watching whether or not that person who's leading gets 50 percent of the vote plus one.

CAMEROTA: You say one of the most interesting races that you're watching are primers that doesn't involve a candidate, what does that mean?

ENTEN: Yes. It doesn't involve a candidate. So we spent so much time on the great state of California, why don't we go to the middle of the country, let's go to South Dakota. Amendment C, so what does amendment C actually do? It would make some ballot measures get 60 percent of the vote to pass instead of 50 percent plus one. Now why would that be on the ballot?

The reason why is a lot of conservatives have put it on the ballot because it's ahead of a Medicaid expansion ballot measure in November, so instead of Medicaid expansion, needing just 50 percent of the vote, plus one to pass, it would instead need 60 percent of vote, which of course conservatives really, really won the state.

BLACKWELL: All right. And you're also watching a former Trump administration official trying to get back into government service.

ENTEN: Yes. It wouldn't be a primary day in 2022 if we weren't talking about Donald Trump, because he just seems to be everywhere endorsing folks. So Montana's first congressional district GOP primary, the top candidates, Donald Trump is backing his former Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke.

Here's another interesting little nugget about Montana, it went from one district to two after redistricting. So now Montana gets two representatives instead of one, twice the fun, just like twice the fun with you two being right over there.

CAMEROTA: Well done. Well played, (inaudible) ...

BLACKWELL: He's good.

ENTEN: I tried my best.

CAMEROTA: It was good.

ENTEN: I was thinking about that in the break.

CAMEROTA: It's really good.

BLACKWELL: Harry Enten, thank you very much.

ENTEN: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Thanks, Harry.

BLACKWELL: All right.

CAMEROTA: All right. These races in California could be a referendum on the Democratic Party as a whole. CNN Senior Political Analyst Ronald Brownstein writes for cnn.com today, "An earthquake is building in today's California elections that could rattle the political landscape from coast to coast, voters are poised to send stinging messages of discontent over mounting public disorder as measured in both upticks in certain kinds of crime and pervasive homelessness.

Tuesday's California results will likely send a stark message to the Democrats controlling Congress and the White House. And the outcome will again underscore how much danger a party in power can face when voters feel that certainty has been stripped from their lives - a dynamic that extends beyond crime and homelessness to inflation, soaring gasoline prices and continued disruption from the unending COVID pandemic."

BLACKWELL: Ron is with us now from Los Angeles. And Ron, let's start with where you are. It was just a year ago that the L.A. City Council cut $150 million from the police department there. And a year later, you've got a primary with a serious contender for the nominee for the Democrats who is saying I'm going to put an extra 1,500 police officers back on the streets. How did we get here?

RONALD BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. Look, we got here by higher crime and in many ways public disorder even more than changes in the crime rate, public disorder as exemplified by homeless encampments that have taken root around the city, in Los Angeles.

Similar dynamic in San Francisco, not so much with the centralized encampments, but with the pervasiveness of homelessness. I think what we are seeing, Victor, is a kind of broad unease backlash in the electorate against the sense that the public authorities, in effect are losing control of the public spaces in both cities and failing to provide the most basic service that they expect from government, which is order and safety.

And the - and I think really what you're watching here in L.A. and San Francisco with the recall of Chesa Boudin, with his mayoral race here, with the recall effort that's going on against the liberal DA in L.A. County as well may be on the ballot this fall is the struggle for - within the Democratic Party to find a defensible sustainable position that balances the demands for equity and reform on the one end, with the overriding public demand for safety and order on the other.

CAMEROTA: Well, I was going to ask you that, Ron, I mean, what are - what has the Democrats' answer during these campaigns been in these liberal cities that are experiencing so much homelessness and as you say disorder?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Look, I mean, what we saw in Chesa Boudin was really, in San Francisco, was elected in 2019, George Gascon who was elected in 2020 year as the DA was the initial rush of the George Floyd era. Although Boudin slightly preceded it, which was an - a principal emphasis on confronting the inequities in the system, reducing incarceration rates, imposing more accountability on police.

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