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Larger Group of Senate Gun Negotiators Slated to Meet Today; House to Get More Emails From Former Trump Attorney Ahead of Hearing; California Voters Send Stark Message to Democrats on Crime, Homelessness. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired June 08, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Good Wednesday morning to you, a busy Wednesday morning. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Poppy Harlow.

Happening right now on Capitol Hill, the families of victims of the Uvalde and Buffalo mass shootings are about to testify before Congress about how gun violence changed their lives. Lawmakers will hear gripping testimony from 11-year-old Miah Cerrillo, who survived the mass shooting at Robb Elementary in Uvalde, Texas, by covering herself in her friend's blood and pretending to be dead.

We will take you there live when these witnesses begin talking.

SCIUTTO: Goodness, an 11-year-old girl.

And as a small circle of Senate negotiators, Democrats and Republicans continue to work on the possibility of gun legislation. CNN has learned that a larger group in the Senate are expected to meet in the next hour to discuss an emerging proposed package, those talks following an emotional plea for gun action by Actor and Uvalde, Texas Native Matthew McConaughey from the White House podium yesterday.

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MATTHEW MCCONAUGHEY, ACTOR AND UVALDE, TEXAS NATIVE: Can both sides rise above? Can both sides see beyond the political problem at hand and admit that we have a life preservation problem on our hands? We've got a chance right now to reach for and to grasp a higher ground above our political affiliations. The chance to make a choice that does more than protect your party, a chance to make a choice that protects our country, now and for the next generation.

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HARLOW: My next guest was elected to the Senate as a pro-gun Democrat in 2007. He voted to allow guns on Amtrak trains in 2009 and everything changed for him after the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre in 2012.

Pennsylvania Senator Bob Casey just published this piece in The Washington Post this morning about his own shift on guns and he writes, I will never forget the shock, horror, and grief of learning that 26 families would never see their loved ones again. I was struck by the stark realization that we did not have to live like this. The idea that more than two dozen students and educators could be slaughtered in a matter of minutes because a 20-year-old had virtually unfettered access to weapons of war was too much to bear, so I changed my position and now it's time for many of my colleagues in the Senate to do the same.

Senator Bob Casey joins me. Senator, thank you.

Why did you write this? Do you think it's because this is a moment when you guys actually act?

SEN. BOB CASEY (D-PA): Yes, Poppy, I think it is a moment. And there are times in American history where you come to a fork in the road either as a member of the United States Senate or as a citizen, and in this case, as a legislative body in the Senate. I think we're at one of those forks in the road.

And you have to ask yourself, I believe, the same questions that I was asking myself in December of 2012. I guess it was December the 12th on that Friday when I began to hear the news about Sandy Hook. And my reactive position was, no new laws will make a difference. That was the lane that I was in. There are only two lanes in American politics with the question of guns. You're either in the lane that says there are no laws that will make a difference or you're in the other lane that says, we have to act, we have to try something to at least reduce the likelihood that we're going to live in a country that accepts this kind of violence.

It's totally contrary to the American experience to surrender to a problem. We didn't surrender World War II to the most powerful armies in the history of the world. We didn't surrender after 9/11. We stopped terrorists from flying airplanes into buildings. And we can do same thing on gun violence. No one is saying it will take one law or a couple of weeks or months. This is going to take years to solve but we have to start, the Senate has to act now to come together and I'm grateful for the work that's being done on a bipartisan basis.

HARLOW: I remember reading about that moment when I think a reporter told you or was talking to you initially right after Sandy Hook and you said, I don't think the gun laws are going to change us. And then you went home and your wife and daughters, frankly, chastised you for that position and helped you evolve. And I ask you that in the context of the polling from CBS that shows 44 percent of Republicans think mass shootings are something this country is going to have to accept to live in a free society.

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I wonder what you say to them considering your own evolution. Like you were in that seat in a different party but you were saying then what they're saying now.

CASEY: Yes. I think they have to or they should at least confront the same questions that I confronted, but. frankly, the questions that Americans are confronting. I mean, do we have to wake up -- look at this. This is the headline from what happened in Uvalde. I mean, that's the headline. Are we going to wake up year after year, a generation after generation to headlines with the pictures of fourth graders, children in schools, and say there's nothing, nothing, the most powerful nation in the world can do? That is a defeatist point of view, and in addition to being wrong on the policy.

It's contrary to everything we say we believe in as Americans. And I think they have to -- I hope they're confronting the same questions I was confronting for my four daughters and my wife but also watching the coverage that weekend, that terrible weekend in December of 2012 hour after hour and seeing what happened to those children, and now that we face a reality that these children couldn't be identified, except for DNA evidence.

I mean, are we really saying that because of some political pressure that we're not going to respond to that? I mean, that is a kind of madness that I don't think many Americans are willing to tolerate.

HARLOW: So, let's talk about what could get passed, do you think, because our Lauren Fox is reporting is that the Texas Senator John Cornyn, as you know, who is leading on the GOP negotiating side of this, at this point, has a framework that would not include an assault weapon ban as you asked for in your op-ed but it includes other things, like hardening school security, a lot mental health money, allowing juvenile records to be accessed for anyone under 21 trying to buy a high-powered weapon, potentially more funding in the states for red flag laws.

What we've seen in the past is when proposals didn't go far enough for many Democrats in the Senate, they voted against it. Are you willing to vote for something like that?

CASEY: Well, look, I'm encouraged that some of the basic issues around the availability of guns are not off the table, okay? So, when we're hearing that the negotiations and, of course, nothing is final until they're done, but I'm encouraged that they're talking about maybe a waiting period.

HARLOW: Okay.

CASEY: That's encouraging. That they're also talking about examining juvenile records before someone has access to a firearm. That's an important breakthrough. I don't know the details of what might emerge on background checks beyond that but those are encouraging.

But we have to get there because I think for a lot of Americans, especially for parents who are sending their children to school every day, a kind of despair is -- I think is emerging across the country, that this institution cannot respond to a problem that most Americans believe is a kind of condition that no Americans should accept. I mean, we have to ask ourselves as well, where is a safe place in America? Grocery stores aren't safe, synagogues, churches, schools, over and over and over again. And I don't think most Americans are willing to live that way.

HARLOW: Yes. You're right. We feel paralyzed as parents, and I think it's not the question of cannot act, it's will your body act and make change. Thank you very much for your time, Senator Casey.

CASEY: Thanks, Poppy.

HARLOW: Jim?

SCIUTTO: We'll be watching Capitol Hill.

Just hours ahead of the January 6th committee's first public hearing, CNN has learned that the panel will get access to 159 emails from the right-wing attorney, John Eastman, so central to the plans to overturn the election. These emails related to his efforts to block the 2020 election result on behalf of the former president, Donald Trump.

Joining me now to discuss the hearings, the significance of these developments, former Federal Prosecutor Shan Wu and CNN Legal Analyst Carrie Cordero. Good to have both of you here.

Shan, if I could begin with you, the significance of these emails, John Eastman made an effort to overturn the results of the election and, frankly, in his public comments, has not shied away from that, right? He was quite fulsome in sort of describing those efforts. What's the significance of these emails?

SHAN WU, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think it's further evidence of what the real planning, what the strategy was and that's important to show here, because, really, what we're seeing is it's not just compartmentalized violence on that day by the sort of muscle end of things, the violent protesters, the Oath Keepers, Proud Boys, but there is this overall strategy and that's what's important for them to be able to show to the American people the strategy and then hopefully to connect those two.

SCIUTTO: Okay. Carrie, how do they do that, right? I mean, this is the thing.

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So, you have a political issue here, the politics don't appear to be changing. And, by the way, there's a significant portion of the population who will not be watching. Fox News will not be broadcasting this at least in primetime. But on the legal front here, and on the possibility of presenting evidence that might lead the Justice Department to prosecute, what do you need to see?

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think there's a few things here. First of all, the goal of the committee's investigation is not necessarily to produce evidence to prosecute people. The goal of the committee's investigation is several. Number one, to lay out the facts of what happened on January 6th, number two, to lay out what the planning was that went into it, both the political strategy to overturn the election and the violence that was connected to it, and then number three, to be able to make the Capitol safer. Nothing like this should ever happen again. There is a physical security component of this and the security of lawmaker's aspect that I hope will be part of the committee's work.

Now, there also -- there already has been criminal charges that have come out in terms of contempt from the committee's investigation and the Justice Department certainly can use information that has developed in the committee investigation if they see that there are things that they have not, in their own investigation, previously discovered. But the goal is different than the Justice Department's investigation.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And it's a good point you bring about safety in the Capitol because that was quite a topic of conversation in the weeks afterwards, it has kind of faded away. I mean, that's about protecting both Democratic and Republican lawmakers because they were both under threat that day.

Another piece of evidence, Secret Service, we understand, considered options to secure a motorcade to take former President Trump to Capitol Hill on the 6th after Trump at that rally publicly expressed an interest. He said, I'm going to go there with you. In the end, it didn't happen. The question is intent here, right, because this is so central to the president's culpability. Is that evidence that Trump wasn't, as he claimed, surprised by what he saw there but had some intent to take part in it?

WU: Yes. I think that is very much about his intent, what his state of mind was and possibly that of his inner circle too. I mean, from the reporting, we're seeing he had been rebuffed earlier, but yet on that day, he still was bringing that up.

And, you know, he's great at marketing and imagery. I mean, the idea, the image of a motorcade heading towards the Capitol with those people protesting would have been very, very powerful because the Secret Service is really a symbol of presidential power. So, I think he's quite clever to be trying that then.

SCIUTTO: The Secret Service and The Beast, right? Imagine that motorcade going up to the Hill.

Okay, earlier this week, five Proud Boys were charged with the quite serious charge of seditious conspiracy with quite a high, as I understand, a legal standard. What does that tell you about the broader investigation here? If the DOJ believes it has the goods on that serious a charge, which goes to planning and connections of multiple individuals in terms of planning for this, do you believe there's more going on behind the scenes?

CORDERO: I do. I think there's more -- there's a very comprehensive -- this is probably the biggest investigation in the Justice Department's history in terms of the scope of the defendants, the national scope of the investigation. The seditious conspiracy charges are really important. They're not the first that we've seen in the January 6th cases. There were previously were Oath Keepers that have been charged with seditious conspiracy, which is basically using force to prevent the lawful function of government. So, it is that violence aspect that they're charged.

So, I think these new charges on the Proud Boy leadership in terms of their involvement and their charges of seditious conspiracy is important, and it shows that the Justice Department is continuing its investigation. It's not finished. They have more work to do and they are continuing to look at who was involved in the planning and the strategy of the attack on the Capitol Hill.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and sedition, right? I mean, that goes right to challenging the functioning of government.

Carrie Cordero, Shan Wu, we're going to have lots to discuss in the coming weeks. Thanks so much.

Still to come this hour, President Biden is getting ready to head out west as the U.S. plays host to the Summit of the Americas, but snubs from some key regional leaders signal foreign policy troubles potentially for the Biden administration.

HARLOW: Also, a car careens into a crowd in Berlin leaving one person dead. What we're learning this hour about the driver who's now being questioned by police.

We are also keeping a close eye on this hearing that has just begun on Capitol Hill. The House Oversight Committee's hearing on the gun violence epidemic. Soon, you will hear live right here from a young survivor of the Uvalde elementary school mass shooting, and families of victims in the shooting there and in buffalo.

Stay with us.

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SCIUTTO: In the next hour, President Biden will head to Los Angeles to host the ninth Summit of the Americas, but a lot of folks will be missing, leaders of several key nations will not attend. They're boycotting the event.

HARLOW: That's right, including the president of Mexico and others skipping this summit because the Biden administration did not invite the autocratic leaders of Cuba, Nicaragua and Venezuela.

Arlette Saenz joins us from the White House. This was obviously a very intentional decision from the White House, saying they don't deserve to be there, but it is interesting to see Mexico say either invite all of them or we're not going.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Ayes. And the White House was really insistent, Jim and Poppy, that dictators not be invited to this event even if that risks alienating other world leaders who might decide not to attend the Summit of Americas and that's exactly what happened. The most high profile leader that say that they are not attending, as Mexico's President Lopez Obrador, this is something that he had been previewing for quite some time but ultimately pulled the plug on his attendance a bit earlier this week.

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And the administration had really been in a full-court press over the course of the past few weeks trying to get him to attend, but, ultimately, that is something that the Mexican president decided against. Additionally, there are countries like Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, all countries that the U.S. considers key partners when it comes to addressing issues of migration, they also will not be attending this event.

And there has been some frustration among administration officials on the fact that this attendance list, the participation list has overshadowed parts of what they are actually trying to accomplish with the summit. The president will be departing here from the White House within the next hour traveling to Los Angeles for this three-day summit that is going to include the heads of state of 23 different countries.

The president, over the course of the next few days and allies, are expected to roll out new economic, climate and migration initiatives but so much of the focus in the lead-up to this summit has been about those countries that would or would not be attending. And so, for the administration, they are heading into this with some of their priorities a bit overshadowed but still insisted that the president is going to have those deliverables that he has been working with those other countries to show off at this summit as he heads out to Los Angeles in the next hour.

HARLOW: Okay. Arlette Saenz for us at the White House for us, thanks very much.

Speaking of what's happening in California, voters in California sending a very loud and clear message to refocus on ensuring public safety, restoring order in their state, that is the key takeaway, really, from primaries yesterday.

SCIUTTO: CNN Senior National Correspondent Kyung Lah in Los Angeles. Kyung, this is a marker, even Democratic politicians say a bellwether for progressive Democrats in California. What have you been finding?

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, especially when you talk about California, the bluest cities, really, in the entire country, if you look at how people feel in these two largest cities of California.

And so what they're saying, if you look at these results, especially in the city of San Francisco, even though we are talking about low turnout, less than 20 percent so far as we are tracking these ballots coming in, is that they are saying no to the progressive prosecutor up there, recalling Chesa Boudin.

And if you look at the numbers out of the mayor's race, even though this was a heavily financed campaign, self-funded, $40 million by Rick Caruso, he is ahead of Karen Bass, a six-term congresswoman. And what Caruso was able to do, he was able to send a message to Democrats saying that he's different. Yes, he used to be Republican, but he wants to take care of something that is really plaguing Los Angeles and in some new areas is homelessness and surge in crime.

I want you to take a listen to his message last night.

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RICK CARUSO (D), LOS ANGELES MAYORAL CANDIDATE: My fellow Angelinos, we can make this city, the city of our dreams, we can solve homelessness, we can curb crime, we can put city hall back in the service of people.

REP. KAREN BASS (D-CA): Thank you for joining. Our fight for small business owners are really reeling from the pandemic who now worry about smash and grabs plunging them deeper into debt. Thank you for joining our fight to house over 50,000 Angelinos who will go to sleep on our streets tonight.

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LAH: So, Karen Bass here talking about crime and homelessness. She has been talking about these issues, that she has been more moderate than some of the progressives here would like her to be. But something important to point out, Poppy and Jim, she has also been under some serious attacks. He has outspent her. Rick Caruso has outspent her in this primary more than ten times. That will be a different ball game when you're talking about two candidates heading into a runoff, really squaring off against each other.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Yes. We have seen a lot of times where the candidate who outspends doesn't necessarily win, but we'll see. Kyung Lah in L.A., thank you so much.

LAH: You got it.

SCIUTTO: It is a city almost completely occupied now by Russian forces, against its will, by the way. Up next, the new allegations involving Russia's treatment of hundreds of hostages in the city of Kherson as CNN gets exclusive access to the frontlines of war with Ukrainian soldiers fighting to retake the south.

HARLOW: We are also monitoring this House Oversight Committee hearing on the gun violence epidemic. Soon, you will hear live from a young survivor of the Uvalde elementary school mass shooting and families of victims in that shooting and the Buffalo supermarket shooting.

Stay right here.

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[10:25:00] HARLOW: Let's take you now to the House Oversight Committee hearing on the gun violence epidemic. You are going to listen to family members who lost their children in the Uvalde shooting and the Buffalo shooting and survivors.

ZENETA EVERHART, SON SURVIVED GUNSHOT WOUND TO NECK IN BUFFALO ATTACK: Zaire, the kid, is now a 20-year-old man. He's pure joy. He's everything that is good in this world. And as I sit here before you today, I can hear my son telling me to stop being extra and get to the point. I was going to tell you a bunch of fluffy funny stories about Zaire, but I have a message, so I'll get to the point.

As director of diversity and inclusion with New York State Senator Tim Kennedy office, stories of gun violence and racism are all too familiar. But now these stories are Zaire's stories. These problems literally knocked on my front door. These are issues, as a country, we do not like to openly discuss. Domestic terrorism exists in this country for three reasons. America is inherently violent. This is who we are as a nation. The very existence of this country was founded on violence, hate and racism, with the near annihilation of my native brothers and sisters.

My ancestors brought to America through the slave trade were the first currency of America. Let me say that again for the people in the back. My ancestors, the first currency of America, were stripped of their heritage and culture, separated from their families, bargained for or auction bloc, sold, being raped and lynched. Yet I continuously hear after every mass shooting that this is not who we are as Americans and as a nation. Hear me clearly. This is exactly who we are.

Education, the majority of what I have learned about African-American history, I did not learn until I went to college and I had to choose those classes. Why is that? Why is African-American history not a part of American history? African-Americans built this country from the ground up. My ancestors' blood is embedded in the soil. We have to change the curriculum in schools across the country so that we may adequately educate our children. Reading about history is crucial to the future of this country. Learning about other cultures, ethnicities and religions in schools should not be something that is up for debate.

We cannot continue to whitewash education, creating generations of children to believe that one race of people are better than the other. Our differences should make us curious, not angry.

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At the end of the day, I bleed, you bleed, we are all human.