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January 6 Committee Set to Hold Public Hearing; Interview With Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi (D-IL); Uvalde Residents Testify on Capitol Hill. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired June 08, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:01]

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: But, John, this is all about a broad group of Republicans who have aligned themselves with Donald Trump's claims that the election was stolen and rigged somehow, without any evidence, in order to get that coveted Trump endorsement -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Remarkable.

We will keep an eye on that race. Great reporting, Manu.

Thanks for your time today.

Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello, and thank you so much for being with us. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

On Capitol Hill, heartbreaking, soul-crushing testimony from victims of the nation's recent mass shootings. Also among those testifying before lawmakers, people whose lives have been changed forever by the school massacre in Uvalde, Texas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROY GUERRERO, UVALDE PEDIATRICIAN: Will never forget what I saw that day. What I did find was something no prayer will ever relieve, two children whose bodies had been pulverized by bullets fired at them, decapitated, whose flesh had been ripped apart, that the only clue as to their identities was blood-splattered cartoon clothes to clean to them, clinging for life and finding none.

MIAH CERRILLO, 11-YEAR-OLD SURVIVOR OF UVALDE MASS SHOOTING: He shot my friend that was next to me.

And I thought he was going to come back to the room, so I grabbed her blood and I put it all over me. And...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you do then, when you put the blood on yourself?

CERRILLO: To stay quiet. And then I got my teacher's phone and called 911. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what did you tell 911?

CERRILLO: I told her that we need help.

MIGUEL CERRILLO, FATHER OF UVALDE SURVIVOR: I come because I could have lost was my baby girl. She's not the same little girl that I used to play and run with and do everything, because she was daddy's little girl.

KIMBERLY RUBIO, MOTHER OF SHOOTING VICTIM: Some part of me was to realize that she was gone. In the midst of chaos, I had the urge to return to Robb.

We didn't have our car at this point. And traffic was everywhere. So I ran. I ran barefoot with my flimsy sandals in my hand. I ran a mile to the school, my husband with me. We sat outside for a while, before it became clear we wouldn't receive an answer from law enforcement on scene.

A San Antonio firefighter eventually gave us a ride back to the Civic Center, where the district was asking all families who had not been reunited with their children to gather.

Soon after, we received the news that our daughter was among the 19 students and two teachers that died as a result of gun violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: In a unified voice, strangled with grief and anger, they are demanding gun reforms.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you feel safe at school. Why not?

CERRILLO: Because I don't want to happen again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you think it's going to happen again?

GUERRERO: In this case, you are the doctors, and our country is the patient. We are lying on the operating table, riddled with bullets like the children of Robb Elementary and so many other schools.

We are bleeding out and you are not there.

RUBIO: So, today, we stand for Lexi. And, as her voice, we demand action. We seek a ban on assault rifles and high-capacity magazines. We understand that, for some reason, to some people, to people with money, to people who fund political campaigns, that guns are more important than children.

So, at this moment, we ask for progress. We seek to raise the age to purchase these weapons from 18 to 21 years of age. We seek red flag laws, stronger background checks.

Somewhere out there, there's a mom listening to our testimony, thinking, I can't even imagine their pain, not knowing that our reality will one day be hers, unless we act now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Our Lauren Fox is on Capitol Hill for us.

Lauren, that testimony was devastating. Any chance that will make the difference, that it will push a divided Congress closer to gun reforms?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that is the hope of Democrats, who have been pushing for some of the reforms that you heard there from Kimberly Rubio, her really pleading with members to open their eyes to what happened to their family and really with a warning of what could happen to other families.

The chairwoman of the Oversight Committee started the hearing by asking her Republican colleagues to open their hearts to what could come next on Capitol Hill.

But, as you know, we have been covering the Senate negotiations. And they are looking at a much smaller package of changes, because they have to have 10 Republican votes to pass anything in the U.S. Senate. And, right now, what is on the table is much more limited than banning assault rifles or even raising the age that you could buy a weapon like an AR-15 from 18 to 21.

[13:05:20]

Looking at what's on the table are packages like incentivizing states to pass red flag laws, to alert folks when there is a crisis among someone they know they can go to law enforcement, and a judge can take away individuals' guns.

There's also a negotiation about including juvenile records in the background checks of people between the ages of 18 and 21 when they go to buy a firearm, as well as school safety measures to ensure that people are safe, and about $7 billion for mental health care.

Off the table, expanding universal background checks, also banning assault weapons. So we are looking at a smaller package here in the U.S. Senate. There is a group of lawmakers, bipartisan lawmakers, meeting right now as we speak in the basement of the Capitol trying to see if they can agree on the contours of that Senate deal.

But as we speak right now, there is no final language, there is no final agreement. They are working towards some kind of solution, Ana, but it is going to fall far short of what those parents were pleading with members of Congress to pass just a couple of hours ago.

CABRERA: Lauren Fox, we know you have your ear to the ground in case there's any change. And we will come back to you if something is newsworthy in this hour.

Just minutes ago, the Justice Department announced the team that will review the police response to the Uvalde school massacre. Even top law enforcement officials there say critical mistakes were made and crucial time was lost before the killer was taken down.

CNN's Omar Jimenez is in Uvalde for us.

And, Omar, we're learning the mayor requested this review.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Ana.

The mayor requested this review from the Department of Justice to look at the investigation into what happened at Robb Elementary School. And we heard from the attorney general, Merrick Garland, not too long ago, as you mentioned. And he stressed this was not a criminal investigation. This was an after-action critical review that was requested by the mayor here and, as far as Garland has said, every level of law enforcement has been cooperating with.

I want you to take a listen, though, to some of what he said this review will do and what it can't do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MERRICK GARLAND, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: There is nothing that we can do that can undo the pain borne both by the survivors, families of the victims and the community and the country. But the independence and transparency and expertise of the Justice Department can go a long way toward assessing what happened in Uvalde with respect to the law enforcement response and to giving guidance for the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: And Attorney General Garland, when asked when that team would begin its work, he says that work has already begun and that his members of the Department of Justice would be on the ground as necessary.

It all comes, of course, as many in this community are searching in any way that they can for answers to what happened now more than two weeks ago. The Uvalde County district attorney here has said it is going to take a while, to use her words, before we get any sort of substantive report from the FBI or the Texas Department of Public Safety.

So, again, it leaves people here trying to fill that gap in any way that they can, waiting while they continue to bury their loved ones -- Ana.

CABRERA: The need for answers, the need for action.

Omar Jimenez, thank you so much.

Let's continue our conversation.

And joining us now is Democratic Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi of Illinois. He is on the House Oversight and Reform Committee, where that hearing took place.

And, Congressman, as someone who was in that room for today's tearful and gut-wrenching testimony, I just wonder, was there a moment that you sensed a breakthrough of any sort in those who've been fighting against changes to gun laws?

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): Possibly.

I think that when the parents of Lexi Rubio spoke, it was about as emotional a moment as you're ever going to find on Capitol Hill. And you could just hear a pin drop at that moment. And I think that they did open up some hearts at that time to considering what happens when we let guns kind of run amok and in America and cause the devastating violence that it has caused so far.

CABRERA: Our Lauren Fox just ticked through a lot of what's on the table in these negotiations currently, but off the table at this point, as we understand it, is even raising the age to purchase AR-15 assault-style rifles.

[13:10:04]

As you know, two of the most recent mass shootings, including the one at Robb Elementary, were carried out by 18-year-olds with these kinds of weapons. And we just heard from that pediatrician describe the carnage caused by these weapons, including two kids decapitated.

What do you say to the Republicans who have argued assault-style rifles are needed for shooting unwanted critters in rural communities?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I think that's an absurd argument.

These AR-15 weapons are weapons of war, Ana. They are not meant for hunting. And, really, what they end up doing is, they enable these shooters, such as the one in Uvalde or the one in Buffalo, to kill many, many people very quickly before they are stopped by law enforcement or others.

And so the question becomes, do we really want to have these AR-15 weapons by -- which, by the way, are being marketed actively to children and teenagers, as I pointed out in my own testimony, to continue to flourish, because ,when they flourish, people don't flourish. They die.

CABRERA: Now, some Republicans against raising the age, they point to the recent ruling by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, which was just last month, ruling that California's ban on the sale of semiautomatic weapons to adults under 21 is unconstitutional.

So I know you have your law degree. How do you work around that?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, I think that there are different states that are pursuing different types of restrictions. And we will see how those do in the courts.

But I think, at the end of the day, these semiautomatic weapons, in my humble opinion, are constitutionally subject to regulation. And they should not be in the hands of young people such as the one in Uvalde who viewed it almost as an extension of a video game. Remember, these weapons are actively marketed as part of video games,

including "Call of Duty 'and so forth. And when these teenagers and others, the ones who are 18 to 21, take these weapons, they're almost acting out their fantasy that they would otherwise play on a video game, but in real life, and it has consequences, as we saw tragically in Uvalde, as well as Buffalo.

CABRERA: We have heard some optimism from some of those involved in the negotiations in the Senate that maybe there will be an actual deal this time around.

A Republican senator, in fact, from Wyoming, Senator Cynthia Lummis, says that she's surprised herself by the calls that she's getting from voters in her state who do want change.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Right.

CABRERA: And now she has said she's at least open to considering some of the changes that have been floated as part of this compromise deal that is forming.

At the end of the day, though, I just -- I want to understand, what is the biggest hurdle in getting gun reform passed? Is it the scandal- ridden NRA? NRA? Is it the gun lobby? Is it just a strong belief in the Second Amendment? What's your sense?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I think it's more of the former two.

So, the NRA, the gun lobby, they are very powerful forces in the halls of Congress, where -- which is where I'm standing right now. And so, really, the question is this for my fellow colleagues on the other side, which is, despite the fact that your constituents want gun reform measures, commonsense gun control, are you going to go against their will?

Because that is really what's at stake. Are you going to vote against the best interests of your constituents? I was at some parades this weekend, including one through a Republican stronghold in my own district. And I can't tell you how many people came up to me, Ana, and basically said, hey, please do something about gun violence.

Please do something on gun control. I didn't hear that in my prior five-plus years in office. And so I think there is a moment here that we have to seize and we have to do something right now.

CABRERA: Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, thank you so much for taking the time, offering your thoughts today.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you, Ana.

CABRERA: One day before the high-stakes hearing on the insurrection, is the January 6 Committee about to get key evidence? A federal judge is giving this panel a slew of e-mails from a Trump attorney who worked to overturn the election.

And big snubs before the big summit. President Biden is on his way to meet other leaders in the Western Hemisphere. How does he overcome the rocky start?

Plus, the fight against COVID just got a boost. We will explain.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:18:58]

CABRERA: Welcome back.

The January 6 Select Committee will receive 159 additional e-mails today from right-wing Trump attorney John Eastman just one day before its findings go public in prime time. A federal judge decided at least one of these e-mails could provide evidence of a crime related to Eastman's efforts to overturn the 2020 election on Trump's behalf.

CNN's Ryan Nobles joins us now, along with CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Jennifer Rodgers.

First, the reporting here.

And, Ryan, the timing can't be ignored. What more are you learning about these e-mails?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's no doubt about that, Ana.

The fact that the committee now has this material in their possession ahead of what will be a months-long series of hearings on what they have uncovered certainly raises the possibility that we could learn more about the interactions that John Eastman had with the former president himself, with members of the Trump campaign team, and exactly what they were up to in their efforts to undermine and stand in the way of the certification of the election results.

[13:20:00]

And what the judge said in his ruling last night is of particular interest, because the case he made is that the reason that these e- mails need to be released, at least one in particular, shows that Eastman was plotting a plan to circumvent the courts, that it wasn't just about putting up a legal argument to allow judges to decide yea or nay, that he actually wanted to try and undermine the election process in a way that could be interpreted as a criminal problem, and that's one of the reasons that the committee deserved to have access to these e-mails.

So we don't know how, if at all, the committee will use them as part of their hearings. It seems unlikely it will be part of tomorrow night's hearing, seeing as they just got this information. In fact, they may not get it until 5:00 tonight.

But it is a real possibility that we will see it as part of their work in the weeks ahead.

CABRERA: Jennifer, to you and the significance of this ruling, and what kind of information would have to be in these e-mails to prove criminal intent?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, so for example, Ana, if they were talking about going to court to sort out the fraudulent state -- slate of electors scheme, right?

So they said, oh, we're going to ignore this -- the real electors that are Biden electors. We're instead going to create these fake Trump electors and have them sent in. That's actually a crime to make those false statements. So, if they were saying, this is our plan to facilitate this crime, that would be an example where criminal liability is created.

And then that crime-fraud exception would not allow those to be withheld because of attorney-client privilege.

CABRERA: And, of course, there's growing anticipation right now about what new information we might learn at tomorrow's prime-time hearing for the January 6 Committee.

And we're reporting that Republicans have plans to try to discredit the committee's findings and to protect Trump.

Ryan, what more are you learning about that?

NOBLES: Yes, we know that Republicans have already come up with a number of different ways to try and counteract what will be presented in this hearing on Thursday night.

Of course, the big problem Republicans have is that they didn't want to participate in these investigations. They turned down the opportunity for a bipartisan independent commission that was going to be outside of the Congress to investigate this. When there were negotiations around putting Republicans on the committee, they put up people that they themselves could have been part of the investigation and were turned back.

So, as a result, they have to make these counterarguments outside of the framework of the hearing itself. We're told that they are talking about putting a war room together, where they can respond to some of the claims in real time. They have a press conference plan with some of the leaders of the Republican Party on the House side tomorrow prior to the hearing itself.

And then, of course, there's the role of the former president himself. He doesn't have that direct social media channel that reaches millions of people that he wants had, but he still has a way to get his message out and do so in a way that is aimed directly at his supporters. And so it's expected that it's going to be very difficult for the former president to remain quiet while he sees accusations about his conduct during that period of time brought up, and especially in front of a massive prime-time audience.

CABRERA: Well, he has his new social media platform, TRUTH Social.

He's got his conservative media outlets that seem to always say what he wants them to say, to deliver his message. Jennifer, as you watch these hearings, what are the top three things

you think this committee needs to accomplish and to lay out in these hearings?

RODGERS: So the committee has promised new information, right, breaking news, things we haven't seen before.

I really think that they need to bring that. I think they're going to be able to -- even these Eastman e-mails, in and of themselves, certainly Trump's minute-to-minute actions on January 6 is something we haven't heard about. We need to hear that new information.

Second, I think they need to parse it out. They need to space it out. If they gave it all to us tomorrow night, people would tune out, I think. They need to tease it, but kind of keep people interested by saying, don't forget to tune in when we talk about this particular piece of information.

And, number three, I think they need to do a really good job of giving a clear and concise capsule of what this plot was, all of the different pieces of it. I think they should name it, call it the Trump coup, call it something that's pithy.

And then they just need to be saying exactly what it was, not just January 6, the misinformation campaign, the frivolous lawsuits, the fake electors scheme, the pressure on Mike Pence, the pressure on state legislators and state election officials, the planning of the January 6 rally, the involvement of congressional members, the Republican congressional members, all leading to the insurrection.

And so I think they need to be repeat, repeat, repeat. This was the Trump coup, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, to just get it into people's heads it was way more than January 6.

CABRERA: Well, thank you so much for your thoughts on that, your expertise, Jennifer Rodgers. Our Ryan Nobles, thank you for your reporting.

Now, the longer it takes for Attorney General Merrick Garland to decide whether to bring any criminal charges against the Trump administration officials, the closer he gets to that pre-midterm deadline, it gets tricky, right?

And dozens of top Democrats told CNN that is a big worry of theirs.

CNN's Isaac Dovere is joining us now.

Isaac, tell us what you're hearing.

ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Oh, there is a deep existential panic among Democrats that time is running out for Merrick Garland to make prosecutions as it relates to January 6 and other things about the former president and his orbit, and that if he doesn't move quickly, they're -- all just going to get sucked into the feeling that it's a political vendetta coming out of the Joe Biden himself, or at least Merrick Garland as Biden's attorney general. [13:25:24]

The Justice Department itself is pushing back on any urgency from those thinking in political terms, saying that they are focused on the facts, and that's what Merrick Garland himself keeps saying, that they will go and they will proceed, not based on the political calendar, but based on a legal calendar to do a thorough investigation.

CABRERA: Isaac Dovere, thank you so much for bringing us your reporting.

DOVERE: Thank you.

CABRERA: And be sure to tune in to CNN tomorrow night at 7:00 Eastern for special coverage of what happened inside the White House on January 6.

A caravan of thousands is making its way to the U.S. border, as the president asks other leaders for help on migration.

We are live from the Summit of the Americas next.

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