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January 6 Committee Set For Public Hearing; Senate Nearing Deal on Gun Safety?. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired June 09, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: "Watergate: Blueprint For a Scandal" continues this Sunday night 9:00 p.m. Eastern only here on CNN.

Thanks for your time today on INSIDE POLITICS. Hope to see you back here tomorrow and tonight for our special coverage of the January 6 hearings.

Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello, and thanks for being here. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

Somehow, high stakes seems like an understatement. It just doesn't really capture the gravity of what's happening on Capitol Hill. On the line is the safety of American lives and the future of Americans' democracy.

After an explosion of mass shootings across the nation, the Democrats' top senate negotiator, Chris Murphy, tells CNN that he believes 10 Senate Republicans will vote to back gun safety legislation. We are following the state of play there, also today the partisan divide over the January 6 insurrection.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RIOTERS: Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's over! You better run, cops!

RIOTERS: Stop the steal! Stop the steal! Stop the steal! Stop the steal!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Investigating the violence and the lies that fueled an attack on this nation's democracy.

Tonight, the January 6 select committee presents its case in prime time involving the former president, his enablers and his followers who tried to stop a peaceful transfer of power.

Now, the committee promises new evidence. What will it mean for America's future? Let's start with CNN congressional correspondent Ryan Nobles.

And, Ryan, 1,000 witness interviews, mountains of documents and a promise that the public will see some things for the first time tonight. Walk us through what to expect.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the first thing, Ana, is that anybody that watches this hearing tonight should not be prepared to see what they would think of as a traditional congressional hearing. This is going to be a lot different.

The committee members are describing it as a somewhat of a multimedia presentation, that we're going to see graphics, we're going to see sound bites from a witness interviews that took place behind closed doors. And there will be live testimony from people that were here at the Capitol on January 6 and have a unique story to tell.

But part of what the committee hopes to unveil tonight is all the work that they have been doing behind closed doors over the past 11 months and start to lay out the case, a thesis, if you will, for what they believe led to the violence and chaos on January 6, a thesis that will have at its core a belief that the former President Donald Trump was involved in a conspiracy to overturn the election results and prevent the peaceful transfer of power.

Now, as to who we will hear from tonight, two people in particular that had interactions with the Proud Boys, that right-wing extremist group who caused a lot of problems on January 6. Caroline Edwards is a Capitol Police officer. She dealt firsthand with the Proud Boys, was involved in an altercation with them on that day, and is still feeling the effects of that more than a year-and-a-half later.

And then Nick Quested is a documentarian who was embedded with the Proud Boys for a period of time leading up to January 6 and on the day itself. He was a fly on the wall for the Proud Boys' plans. The committee believes that he can testify to the fact that this was, at least in part, a premeditated act, that people came here with the express purpose of causing violence and storming the Capitol.

And that's part of what they will lay out tonight -- Ana.

CABRERA: Ryan Nobles, please stick around.

I want to bring you into my next conversation as well with Michael Gerhardt, professor of constitutional law at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and he testified for the House Judiciary Committee hearing on the impeachment of former President Trump in 2019. Also with us is Alan Baron. He's a lawyer who has been special counsel to both Senate and House committees over the past three decades.

So, let me start with you, Alan.

What will you be watching for tonight specifically?

ALAN BARON, FORMER HOUSE SPECIAL IMPEACHMENT COUNSEL: Well, I think that there will be some very fascinating testimony coming from the witnesses who they have lined up.

And I think they're going to show how reckless Trump and his colleagues were in unleashing what went on at the Capitol. People died, and somebody has to be held accountable for that. And, ultimately, it leads back to Donald Trump.

CABRERA: Michael, how high is the bar for this committee and tonight's prime-time hearing?

MICHAEL GERHARDT, UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA: Well, that's a good question.

I think, for most Americans, it's probably a relatively high bar. I think for those that are attached to Donald Trump or die-hard Republicans, that bar can't be too high. And then perhaps for some others, it may be really low.

But the important thing is that this is being broadcast to the American people. And what's being broadcast is just hard data. It's hard facts. And I think it'll be very interesting to hear from not just people that were witnessing things firsthand, but people that are not making stuff up.

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We're going to see the hard reality of what happened on January 6 yet again. It happened. It's a fact. And we're going to learn more and more about those facts and the dangers the attack on Congress posed for our democracy.

CABRERA: And, Ryan, you did a good job there at the beginning laying out what we can expect to hear, who we're expected to hear from.

But one thing people won't hear tonight is dissent or pushback on this narrative that the committee is laying out.

NOBLES: Yes, that's right, Ana.

This is a bipartisan committee. There are Republicans and Democrats, but obviously the two Republicans that serve on this panel are individuals that have been very critical of the role that former President Donald Trump and his Republican allies played in what led to January 6.

And there was obviously a dust-up between the House minority leader, Kevin McCarthy, and the speaker, Nancy Pelosi, over which Republicans would serve on that panel. Kevin McCarthy appointed several members who have now become part of this investigation, and Pelosi rejected that, which led to Adam Kinzinger and Liz Cheney being the two Republicans that serve on this panel.

So that will also be part of why this hearing is going to be different than what we're accustomed to in congressional hearings. Generally, you will have a situation where the majority asks questions and then the minority ask questions, and there's a bit of a push and pull between the two sides. That's not going to happen tonight, because, basically, all of these

members will be singing from the same hymnal. Now, I should also point out, Ana, we are just getting word about some of the new information that we could learn tonight and some of the new things we may see.

The chairman of the select committee, Bennie Thompson, just speaking with reporters, our Annie Grayer and Melanie Zanona were part of that gaggle. And he said that -- quote -- they will have "significant video of some people who have been charged, some people who have been convicted and some people who have pled guilty."

And so that would indicate these were people that were rioting in the Capitol that day, because those are the individuals that have been convicted at this point. And then he also went on to say that it's under consideration and a work in progress as to whether or not they're going to show videos of Trump family members, specifically, Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner, and Donald Trump Jr.

We know all of them have sat for depositions privately. And those depositions were videotaped. So, Ana, that just gives us a little bit more insight into what we should expect tonight during these hearings.

CABRERA: So, Alan, if the goal is to bring the American people the facts and more information of the truth, the reality of what happened, what they have uncovered, what they have been told by the people who were on the inside, it's important that people listen and hear and receive that information.

We know the big networks will be taking this hearing tonight. Certainly, here on CNN, we will be covering and taking it as well. But we know FOX News isn't. So there are viewers of that network and perhaps other right-wing networks that won't be hearing this information. What do you think is the impact of that?

BARON: I think that's pathetic. And it shows that they're too scared to face what these hearings will produce.

I must say that I think it's excellent that they're putting on the people that they are, but, at some point, either early or at the end, I hope they call Donald Trump. Putting on these hearings without hearing from Trump, it's a little like putting on "Hamlet" without the prince.

He is a private citizen. If he wants to take the Fifth Amendment, fine. He's entitled. But he doesn't have executive privilege. He's invoked it before and it didn't work. And I think the American people ought to hear what he has to say. And I would hope that Adam Schiff, who's a terrific lawyer, as well as an excellent congressman, does a lot of the questioning.

CABRERA: Michael, do you agree? Do you think Donald Trump needs to be called at this hearing or one of these hearings that are upcoming?

GERHARDT: Well, I almost always agree with Alan. So I think I'd agree with him here too. But I will raise, I guess, a concern. And that is that Donald Trump is

somebody who I think, quite frankly -- and we have learned this over a number of years -- is somebody who has a really tough time speaking the truth. He will speak from his perspective, but putting him under oath will be difficult.

And my guess is ,if he gets put under oath, he will not remember a great deal.

What's going to be really important, therefore, is what the people around him are reporting and sharing. For example, he used a private phone throughout much of the day, and that's kind of odd. What kind of conversations took place on the private phone?

I understand the committee is tracking the numbers, and they may be able to put together conversations that Trump himself if he weren't under oath, would deny happening. So I think Trump won't necessarily be -- provide the best insight into actually Trump himself. It's going to be the people around him.

CABRERA: Alan, we know the committee spoke to hundreds of witnesses. In fact, it was 1,000 is our latest note, and they have gathered 140,000 documents.

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They're still getting new evidence. We know more John Eastman e-mails have to be turned over by next week, for example. How challenging is it to try to condense all of that?

BARON: Well, that's part of the art of conducting a good set of hearings.

You have to be able to separate out that stuff that's going to make a difference and that's going to make an impression from all of the chatter and the stuff that's peripheral, rather than central.

But that's part of the job of these people. They're professionals. They will be able to go through it. They have been through a lot of hearings, and they will be able to figure out what will have an impact and what is a distraction.

CABRERA: And, Ryan, tonight, of course, is the first prime-time hearing for this committee. And now we know they have scheduled at least two more hearings next week.

What do we know about those?

NOBLES: They have not really provided many specifics as to what will be conducted as part of those hearings, what witnesses we could potentially hear from or what the topics will be.

But we do know from our reporting that they do plan on making the subsequent hearings after tonight focused on a specific topic area, and it could be something having to do with Capitol security. It could have something to do with that period of time during the riot where we just did not hear from the former president and there are significant gaps in the records at the White House as to what he was up to at that time.

And each one of the committee members will actually be conducting each one of these hearings on their own. They will each have a specific topic area to themselves. We do know that two potential explosive witnesses that have been asked and invited by the committee to testify are two former Department of Justice officials, the former acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen and his deputy, Richard Donoghue.

They have been cooperative with the committee up until this point. And they have also -- they were also two of the people that basically stood in the way of the former president and his associates attempting to use the Justice Department as a tool to investigate these very thin claims of voter fraud.

So the fact that they could appear in a public setting, even though they're not household names, could be a very important part of the committee's work in the days ahead.

CABRERA: And we're just getting word that we may also hear from Georgia election officials as some of these hearings unfold.

Thank you so much, Ryan Nobles, Michael Gerhardt, and Alan Baron. I appreciate all of you.

As the select committee reveals what its investigation has uncovered, keep in mind the DOJ is still actively running its own investigation. And we have learned the FBI has now arrested a Republican candidate for Michigan governor for his alleged involvement in that Capitol attack. And Ryan Kelley is now facing misdemeanor charges.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz has this reporting for us.

What are you learning, Katelyn?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: That's right.

So, new charges against a Republican politician in Michigan. Ryan Kelley is facing four counts, essentially for moving with this aggressive crowd of rioters pass the police line on January 6 and into this restricted area outside the Capitol Building.

Kelley has been running for governor in a crowded field of Republicans and the primary Michigan is not until this August, but he has really built this far right political persona because he's been very vocal about COVID restrictions and about opposing the democratic governor, Gretchen Whitmer, who is running for reelection.

So in this new criminal case against Kelley in federal court, the investigators have made clear that they have known about him and him being at the Capitol potentially for more than a year. Tips were coming in about Kelley being part of the riot last January, and there's been video out there of him climbing under scaffolding, waving on people in the crowd. And the FBI does note that they were able to identify Kelley partly

because he's been so prominent politically. In court, they're saying now that they have compared images of Kelley to appearances he made at both American Patriot rallies in Lansing and in his hometown in 2020 and also at a Stop the Steal rally just after the 2020 election at the Michigan Statehouse.

At those rallies, investigators say he was wearing some of the same clothing he wore on January 6, so a black coat and a black baseball cap backwards. So, Kelley previously said he did not go inside the Capitol Building on January 6. And he will be in court for the first time today.

But stepping back, Ana, this arrest makes clear that the Justice Department is still hard at work bringing new cases against people in the riot. The Justice Department has charged more than 800 defendants by now. And they are still looking to identify hundreds more -- Ana.

CABRERA: OK, Katelyn Polantz, thank you for that update.

Sources tell CNN that law enforcement agencies in Washington are ramping up security. They are bracing for backlash, the hearings, like the January 6 investigation, also rulings on some of the nation's most divisive issues, abortion, gun rights, for example.

CNN law enforcement correspondent Whitney Wild has the latest.

So what security has been put in place?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we know, Ana, and the most visible is that this fence has gone up around the Supreme Court. It's been up for several weeks now.

But behind the scenes, there's a lot of work going on. There are overtime shifts, men and women from Capitol Police being drafted for overtime shifts. Meanwhile, at the Metropolitan Police Department -- that's the police department here in Washington, D.C. -- they know that they're going to put their civil disturbance unit -- those are their riot cops -- on active duty several times throughout the month because there are so many things descending on Washington at the same time.

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You just listed several of those out. I'd like to point you to a big event that's happening this weekend, this March For Our Lives event, which is going to protest and urge for stricter gun laws.

The last time that came to Washington, it was tens of thousands of people, Ana. And they are gearing up for the potential that there could be tens of thousands of people coming to Washington this Saturday, so all of these things happening at the same time.

In addition, there are thousands of people descending on D.C. because the Capitol is reopening. So they're expecting 1,000 people a day. So what this really comes down to, Ana, is a manpower issue. And it also requires coordination across Washington.

So there are daily calls between law enforcement, Capitol Police, the Supreme Court police, neighboring jurisdictions and their law enforcement agencies to make sure everybody's on the same page, everybody's law enforcement reaction here is coordinated.

The big issue here, Ana, is that threats are bubbling to the surface every single day. I spoke with the director of D.C.'s Homeland Security and Emergency Management Agency. Here's what he told me about the threats that they are seeing.

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CHRISTOPHER RODRIGUEZ, DIRECTOR, HOMELAND SECURITY AND EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY: This is occurring almost on a daily basis, in terms of any types of threats.

The posts that concern us the most are threats against individuals or specific places.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILD: They are taking action here, Ana.

They said that they flagged about a dozen of those threats for further investigation, which means that his intelligence analysts saw those threats and said, this is credible enough that we need to do further investigation and so sent that often to the two other agencies they work with, like the FBI, like other agencies, like local police to try to investigate out those threats and see if they are credible and specific.

But it's certainly an alarming trend. And one more thing, Ana, I think is important to note. They say this occurs on all points of the political spectrum -- back to you.

CABRERA: Whitney Wild, thank you so much. Great reporting.

And tonight at 7:00 Eastern, join CNN's special coverage to hear new details on what happened inside the White House on January 6.

Hope on the Hill? The lead Senate Democrat in bipartisan gun talks thinks more than 10 Republicans will back gun reform. So when's the vote? We have the latest on the state of play.

Plus, the FDA may be just days away now from giving the final OK to COVID vaccines for kids under the age of 5. What we know about the White House plan to get those shots into arms as soon as possible.

And it's getting ugly. The PGA Tour just suspended a bunch of golfers for playing in a controversial event.

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[13:22:12] CABRERA: Today, the CEOs of more than 200 U.S. companies are demanding the Senate take immediate action to address gun violence. We're talking companies from Levi's to DoorDash to Ben and Jerry's.

They write, in part: "On top of the human toll is a profound economic impact. Gun violence costs American taxpayers, employers and communities a staggering $280 billion per year. Employers lose $1.4 million every day in productivity and revenue and costs associated with victims of gun violence. Communities that experience gun violence struggle to attract investment, create jobs and see economic growth."

Now, the lead Democrat in the bipartisan negotiations said this about finding common ground as pressure builds to take action:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): I think that we can put together a package that will get more than 10 Republican votes. And, again, the reason for that is the demand from their constituents.

And you have seen news reports in CNN about senators from very conservative states who are considering voting for this because they have been deluged by phone calls from parents telling them that they need to step up and do something about this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: CNN's Manu Raju joins us now from Capitol Hill.

So, Manu, we hear Murphy there saying he thinks enough Republicans are on board here with some kind of gun reform. And I just saw crossing our note here, our e-mail, is that Mitt Romney is now speaking out saying he's in favor of shifting the age to buy assault-style weapons from 18 to 21.

So what exactly is on the table right now?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that is not, raising the age from 18 to 21. In fact, that has not been part of the talks, even though -- even I was told that Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell is open to that idea.

There is just simply not enough Republican support to get there. And there is not a deal yet. In fact, Chris Murphy just came out of Chuck Schumer's office, the Senate majority leader, and he talked to reporters, telling our colleague Ted Barrett that a deal has not been reached yet.

And they're still going to talk and they still have to hope to get a deal by next week. Now, there are a number of issues that are on the table here. One of those is incentivizing red flag laws. That is a key component of this bill. Another one is dealing with background checks for juvenile records. That's another issue that they're grappling with at the moment, school security measures, as well as $7 billion to deal with mental health care facilities nationwide. But what is not in this plan is raising the age to 21 for those

semiautomatic rifles, as well as banning those rifles altogether, restricting high-capacity magazines, or expanding background checks for gun show sales and Internet sales. Simply not going to be part of the equation.

Earlier today, I caught up with Senator John Cornyn, the lead GOP negotiator, who indicated a deal has not been reached today and also responded to that very emotional testimony from Uvalde, Texas, yesterday, where witnesses described the horror of the massacre last month.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Do you realistically think that this group will have a deal in hand by the end of this week, by today or tomorrow?

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): No.

But, having said that, we're making good progress.

RAJU: What do you say to those folks who are suffering through what happened there and saw the lives that were lost, some of their family members lost, and they're asking you guys to do more?

CORNYN: Well, it's horrific. We all know how horrible this was and how horrible all of these incidents are.

And, sometimes, people talk about the art of the possible. And you can't let the enemy or the perfect be the enemy of the good. And so we are -- that's the nature of this institution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Well, one of the things that those witnesses talked about yesterday was for raising that age from 18 to 21 for those semiautomatic rifles, banning them, banning high-capacity magazines.

But John Cornyn has made very clear for several days now that none of that will get in there. And he says that they are not going to restrict the Second Amendment in any way, restrict access to guns in any way. So that has not been part of the discussion.

But because, Ana, that has not been part of the discussion, that is why there is optimism that there could be a narrow deal reached, a potential incremental deal, but Cornyn indicating to me that any deal that would be reached probably would slip until the end of this month, at the earliest, to get it on the Senate floor.

So, still some work to do, even though there is some optimism in the Senate -- Ana.

CABRERA: OK, we're seeing incremental movement, it seems like, on this, but movement nonetheless. Thank you, Manu Raju.

Now, the FDA is about to sign off on COVID shots for kids under 5. Where and when you can get one for your child.

And we're learning disturbing new details about the man authorities say planned to kill Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh. This guy apparently had a pistol, pepper spray, zip ties, a screwdriver. The list goes on.

What we know ahead.

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