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House Committee Lays Out Case Against Trump in First Public Hearing; At Least Four Trump Aides Say They Told Trump, His Team Lost Election; Uvalde School Police Chief Defends Shooting Response in Texas Tribune. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired June 10, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour now. I'm Jim Sciutto.

This Friday morning, this country faced with a spark reality, video evidence, new testimony, as well that shows just how close the U.S. came to losing its democratic system or at least dealing it a serious blow on January 6, 2021.

The bipartisan panel investigating the Capitol attack that day laid out the case against former President Trump in a prime time hearing showing how he egged on the rioters to attempt to overturn a free and fair election.

We saw stunning new images of officers desperately calling for backup as they were attacked by the rioters. There were also several new revelations from members of Trump's inner circle in their testimony. His former attorney general, Bill Barr, detailed how he told the president his election fraud claims were B.S. Trump's own daughter, Ivanka Trump, testifying that when she heard that she believed Barr, and the committee vice chair, Republican Liz Cheney revealed that multiple Republican congressmen, including Scott Perry sought presidential pardons for their roles in trying to overturn the election.

Cheney had a stark warning for members of her party.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): Tonight, I say this to my republican colleagues who are defending the indefensible. There will come a day when Donald Trump is gone but your dishonor will remain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Capitol Hill police officers who were attacked, wounded by the rioters watched the proceedings in distress, some you can see there with tears in their eyes, I asked one of those officers how he described his feelings last night. He told me in one word, betrayal.

CNN Justice Correspondent Jessica Schneider, Capitol Hill Reporter Melanie Zanona standing by with more.

Jessica, to you first. There was new evidence presented last night, new testimony. Walk us through the details.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: It's interesting, Jim. They're laying this out in almost episodic form with more to come in the future hearings starting this week, and they started out with these broad themes. They argued that Trump knew his election fraud claims were false, that he was the one who encouraged these violent plans to take shape and in the coming hearings, the committee has really teased that they'll unveil even more evidence showing how Trump did nothing to stop the violence here.

But right off the bat, the committee played a jarring video recap of just how violent January 6th was.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) priority. We just had Peace Circle breached the line. We need backup.

We're going to give riot warnings. This is (INAUDIBLE). We're going to get riot warnings. We're going to try and get compliance but this is now officially a riot.

We are trying to hold the upper deck now.

We need to close the doors of the Capitol.

I need support. I need support.

We've lost the line. We've lost the line! All our MPDs get back. All MPDs pull back up to the upper deck. ALL MPDs pull back at the upper deck ASAP.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And whatever it takes, I'll lay my life down if it takes, absolutely. That's why we showed up today.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bring her out her. We're coming in if you don't bring her out.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT (voice over): They were peaceful people. These were great people. The crowd was unbelievable. And I mentioned the word, love. The love -- the love in the air, I've never seen anything like it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: And jumping off that Trump audio, the committee here laid out what will come next when they have that second hearing at 10:00 A.M. Monday.

Vice Chair Liz Cheney saying they will detail how Trump, quote, lit the fuse for the riot with his stolen election lie even though top officials repeatedly told him there was no evidence of widespread election fraud.

[10:05:05]

And even the president's daughter, Ivanka, said she believed what her father was told. Here's then-Attorney General Bill Barr and Ivanka Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM BARR, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: I had three discussions with the president that I can recall.

I made it clear I did not agree with the idea of saying the election was stolen and putting out this stuff, which I told the president that was bullshit. And, you know, I didn't want to be a part of it and that's one of the reasons that went into me deciding to leave when I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did that affect your perspective about the election when Attorney General Barr made that statement?

IVANKA TRUMP, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: It affected my perspective. I respect Attorney General Barr. So, I accepted what he was saying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHNEIDER: And the former president already firing back about Ivanka's comments over his own social media feed this morning saying that she wasn't really in the loop anyway.

So, Jim, a lot to come from this committee, they have laid out a lot already in the first two-hour block and we'll see a lot more, including expansion on these extremist groups, the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers and how involved Trump may have been or what he may have known. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Yes. Trump said that his daughter was checked out, that was the phrase he used.

Melanie, to you, Committee Chair Bennie Thompson said last night that there will be witnesses describing conversations between extremist groups and people in Trump's orbit, that if they get an establishment will be an important connection. What do we know?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes. We don't know who exactly who in Trump's orbit was having those conversations or what those conversations entailed, but the select committee's mission has been to connect the dots between these extremist groups and between the Trump administration.

And I think one of the big revelations that came out last night was that there were several Republicans who sought presidential pardons from the White House after January 6th. We know that one of those lawmakers was Scott Perry who was involved in the plot to install Trump loyalists at the Department of Justice, and he did not comply with the subpoena to cooperate with the select committee.

But we don't know who those other Republicans are and we don't know why they wanted a subpoena or why they were worried about potential criminal exposure. Congressman Pete Aguilar, a member of the select committee, was pressed about this earlier today. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PETE AGUILAR (D-CA): It's very clear that some of my Republican colleagues felt as well as members of the president's orbit and his former advisers and lawyers close to him in the campaign felt the pressure of what happened on January 6th. And they sought pardons, they had conversations about pardons after January 6th.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZANONA: So, that is something we are going to be looking out for in the weeks ahead, and it can be really problematic for a House Republican conference who has tried to ignore or deflect from this investigation. But, more broadly, the select committee is planning to show how Trump carried out a sophisticated seven-part-plan to try to stay in power and that included a pressure campaign on his own vice president, on his Department of Justice, on state level officials. So, all of those and more will be the themes of the upcoming hearings. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Many more to come. Jessica Schneider, Melanie Zanona, thanks so much.

The chairman of the January 6th select committee is warning that democracy remains fragile.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): We're going to remind you of the reality of what happened that day, but our work must do much more than just look backwards. The cause of our democracy remains in danger. The conspiracy to thwart the will of the people is not over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Joining me now to discuss, former Democratic California Congresswoman Jane Harman, she served as the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee. Congresswoman, nice to have you back.

FMR. REP. JANE HARMAN (D-CA): Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: I'm sure you were shocked to see the images we saw again from January 6th last night, including new images, but also new revelations. Is the U.S. democratic system more or less safe today than it was on January 6th a year-and-a-half ago?

HARMAN: That's a hard question. I mean, there aren't people storming the Capitol, but I would say if I had to make the call, it's less safe. Our institutions are even more fragile. Our parties are even more divided. I'm a member on the Counsel on Election Integrity, a 3-7 bipartisan group including very prominent Republicans who want to make sure this event is never repeated and we will be making careful recommendations, but also, I think, these hearings are riveting.

And I was enormously impressed by the presentation yesterday. Bennie Thompson whom I served under on the Homeland Security Committee, I chaired there for a while in Congress, it was (INAUDIBLE).

[10:10:07]

The star performer was Liz Cheney and what she had to say and how she said it will, I think, be something we won't forget.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this, because one of the revelations last night is that several GOP lawmakers, according to Cheney, sought pardons for their role in attempting to overturn the 2020 election from Trump in the days following January 6th. What's your reaction to hear that and what does it say to you about their apparent feeling they had criminal exposure?

HARMAN: Well, I don't know who they are. One name was mentioned last night, and I think we're going to learn more next week, but it would seem they felt they had criminal exposure if they were asking for pardons, which they didn't get. Very interesting.

I mean, let's understand that Mike Pence who thought -- who thought, and I agree, was doing the right thing, was in enormous personal danger and it sounds like Trump was egging people on, and thought he deserved it. So, I mean, this is stunning.

What I would say, though, Jim is the videos and the witnesses are telling the story. I think it would be much better if the members of the committee stayed off of, with all affection for your network, stayed off of spinning this. And I think the public needs to hear it from the witnesses and needs to understand that this is in no way, as Bennie Thompson said, a partisan exercise.

SCIUTTO: You have sins of commission and sins of omission. I mean, the sins of commission is something that the committee has some evidence of, still has to establish, perhaps. But in terms of what President Trump did not do that day, he did not immediately call for his supporters to back off. He was apparently watching on T.V. and celebrating it as it happened. It was Pence, not Trump, who attempted to get the National Guard there. Are those since of omission or are they dereliction, in your view?

HARMAN: Well, let's have a court of law decide what they were in terms of the definitions. I am a lawyer, but I'm certainly not a criminal lawyer. The Justice Department still has to reach its own conclusions. But in the court of public opinion, I think the fact that Trump was active in this plot, that clearly seemed to come through, is devastating for him.

I mean, what the test here is who watched this and what minds will be changed? A big deadline, June 16, when Cheney has her primary in Wyoming, and she's apparently way behind and there is a Trump- supported candidate opposing her, that will be a measure. And it may take more than that much time to sink in, and I'm just hoping that what people see is the facts, just the facts, not the spin of it.

SCIUTTO: You spent a lot of time overseas. You and I have encountered each other overseas, including in Ukraine. Where is American soft power around the world right now? Part of America's soft power is the promotion of democratic values. When people overseas see this and a continuing failure to address some of these issues, what does it do to America's standing?

HARMAN: It hurts us, and we're seeing that play out right now in the Summit of the Americas, where the leaders of four countries in our southern hemisphere are not appearing in Los Angeles with President Biden. I think they have some juniors there and maybe the foreign ministers, but they felt free to snub us.

And I think that from all of the travels I've made and including with you in Ukraine and, by the way, kudos for your superb reporting from Ukraine just recently, from all those visits, people are saying that our democracy is frayed.

They are also very upset about the way we exited Afghanistan and to remind there was a vote in the United Nations, I know you've watched this, to condemn Russia for its illegal and unprovoked invasion of Ukraine, 140 countries voted yes, 5 voted no and 35 abstained. And those are the countries in Middle East, Latin America and Africa, and we're not going to make the sale in the world, and India, I think, unless we persuade a lot more countries that we are the vibrant democracy, we are the shining city on the hill. That was Ronald Reagan, quoting some scripture, I would say, and if we don't make that sale, our ability to lead in a very fragile world will definitely decline.

SCIUTTO: Congresswoman Jane Harman, always good to have you on.

HARMAN: You, too, Jim. Nice to see you.

SCIUTTO: Still to come this hour, the Uvalde police chief shares his story with The Texas Tribune saying he never considered himself the incident commander at the scene.

[10:15:06]

What else we're learning this morning.

Plus, inflation hitting the high of the rate in four decades. The markets reacting to the news this morning, the Dow down there, goodness, about 750 points to nearly 2.5 percent. We're going to speak to the chair of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, coming up.

And as we head to break, we did want to leave you with testimony from Capitol Police Caroline Edwards, who the committee was the first officer to be injured on January 6th. Here's what she had to say about the mob's verbal attacks against her. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OFFICER CAROLINE EDWARDS, U.S. CAPITOL POLICE: I was called a lot of things on January 6, 2021, and the days thereafter. I was called Nancy Pelosi's dog, called incompetent, called a hero and a villain. I was called a traitor to my country, my oath and my Constitution. In actuality, I was none of those things. I was an American standing face to face with other Americans asking myself how many times, many, many times how we had gotten here?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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SCIUTTO: The Uvalde school district police chief is now telling The Texas Tribune that he never assumed control of the scene of the shooting even though the Texas Department of Safety previously said Pedro Pete Arredondo was serving as the incident commander. Arredondo now says he did not order police to hold back on breaching the building.

CNN has reached out to Arredondo's attorney, the Texas Department of Public Safety and school district for comment.

CNN's Omar Jimenez joins us me now from Uvalde, Texas. I mean, this is interesting. He says he never ordered people to hold back. He didn't quite say he ordered anyone to go in. I just wonder what we know now with this latest iteration of the story.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim. Now, this all comes from The Texas Tribune interview with school's Police Chief Pete Arredondo through a combination of phone calls, written responses and going back and forth with their attorney, as well, and all of that kind of gets to the heart of what is now multiple overlapping investigations. What took so long?

Well, Pete Arredondo told The Tribune that some of the shooter's bullets were piercing the classroom door, had injured officers and hit adjacent walls, that they started breaking windows and evacuating children and teachers elsewhere in the school but also that lockdown measures were working against them, he told The Tribune, that all of the lights in the classrooms were off, as it's typical during lockdowns, which made it difficult to pinpoint the gunman's exact location, but also that the door was reinforced with a steel jamb designed to keep outside attackers from getting in, but in this case, he says, prevented them from immediately kicking the door in and confronting this particular shooter. And then he also told The Tribune, as you mentioned, he never considered himself the incident commander, which is significant because that is in direct contrast to what state investigators had said up until this point.

Now, another portion of their conversation with The Tribune, Arredondo assumed that some other officer official had taken control of the larger response, he took on the role of a frontline responder. He also said he never considered himself the scene's incident commander and did not give any instruction that police should not attempt to breach the building.

As far as instructions go, he did, though, again, based on this Tribune article, did mention officers should try to rescue people through those windows elsewhere. And then, significantly, we learned he did not have his radio on him, meaning he was not aware of any 911 calls and that he told The Tribune no one relayed that information to him. His attorney added that even if he had his radios, he would have had them turned off because they didn't want to make noise in this hallway and that points were even whispering.

And all of this, of course, they were waiting for a key to get into this door. Eventually at 12:50 P.M., more than an hour after the shooter first entered, they got that key, breached and shot and killed the suspect.

SCIUTTO: An hour. Omar Jimenez there in Uvalde, thanks so much.

Joining me now, Anthony Barksdale, he is the former acting Baltimore police commissioner and CNN Law Enforcement Analyst. Good to have you on, as always.

First question, you're the school district police chief, you come to the scene of a school shooting, do you have any doubt in your mind that you're the incident commander?

ANTHONY BARKSDALE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: There's no doubt in my mind. If I've got the rank, it's my responsibility and hold me accountable. I am the incident commander. I can't even understand this game that's being played, but I'm the incident commander.

SCIUTTO: He says he didn't give an order not to go in, telling The Texas Tribune. He doesn't also say he gave an order to go in. When I hear that, it sounds like a dodge. But I wonder, as a police chief, what do you hear in that answer?

BARKSDALE: I agree with you, it is a dodge. That's what that is. These verbal games instead of answering specific questions as to what occurred that allowed this failure to happen, it's definitely a dodge.

SCIUTTO: One thing we're learning now is that some of the measures taken to harden schools and to respond to shootings, turn the lights out, harden the door jamb, it seems, in terms of breaching that door, because you will hear from Republicans and gun advocates' opposition to gun measures, but support for things like hardening schools further.

[10:25:19]

You have measures here. What does that tell you about the difference they make or do not make in a situation like this?

BARKSDALE: If you have a building and you know that it's your duty to provide safety for those inside of that building, inside of that school, those kids, the teachers, then you plan for this, you think ahead. You look at these doors and say, what does it take for us to defeat this if it goes into lockdown mode, a battering ram, ballistic shields. We need to be able to defeat these doors if we have to get in one day, some day, be sure that have the breaching equipment, be sure that our training is adequate and we are used to the sounds of an automatic -- a semiautomatic rifle inside, that we've trained to a standard for an incidents just like this, and they did not. This is clearly a failure. It's a failure. I'm sorry. Yes, clear failure. Yes.

SCIUTTO: Failed those poor kids. One of the questions throughout has been, did the police know that there were people still alive and injured inside that classroom? The New York Times has reviewed investigative documents, video as well from law enforcement that says they did know. Are there any circumstances under which, particularly post-columbine, law enforcement stays outside that room, does not immediately attempt to breach with the knowledge there are injured children, in this case, inside?

BARKSDALE: In Baltimore, we have the shock trauma center. And one of the theories when it was found that there is a golden hour, 60 minutes, when someone is first injured to getting them critical attention, immediate, 60 minutes. You've got kids -- you've got these little babies in this school, you've got teachers down, you know there's gun fire inside of the school, so there was no time. There is no justification. You push. You give it your all. And this stuff of turning down the radio so you can't -- you want them to hear you, you want the shooter to focus on you, not those kids. Let them hear you. Draw the gun fight. Draw it to you and fight back. God --

SCIUTTO: I hear you, sir. I know you've been there too. Anthony Barksdale, always good to have you on. Thank you.

Well, the January 6th committee laying out their case that former President Trump fueled the brutal and bloody events of that day. So, how are Republicans reacting this morning? That's coming up.

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