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CMTE: Video Shows Proud Boys & Oath Keepers Leaders Meeting Before Riots; At Least 4 Trump Aides Testified They Told Him & His Team That He Lost; Rep. Ted Lieu (D-CA) Discusses 1/6 Hearings, Insurrection; Uvalde Police Chief Defends Shooting Response in "Texas Tribune"; Missing Child "Baby Holly" Found Alive After 40-Plus Years. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired June 10, 2022 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICK QUESTED, DOCUMENTARIAN WHO WAS EMBEDDED WITH PROUD BOYS: We met up with the Proud Boys somewhere around 10:30 a.m. And they were starting to walk down the Mall in an easterly direction toward the capitol.

There was a large contingent, more than I had expected. And I was confused to a certain extent why we were walking away from the president's speech because that's what I felt we were there to cover.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: John, what's the take-away for you?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: This gets to the heart of whether this was a spontaneous protest that got out of control or whether there was an element of premedicated coordination, with some of these groups acting in effect as shock troops to soften the target.

And who knew what when? We've seen clips from Steve Bannon and other people seeming to indicate they had knowledge of a big day, more than just a wild day, but something that was going to try to change the course of the day by stopping the counting of the electoral votes.

The timing not a coincidence. We know that.

So this gets to the heart. And I think we're going to hear more over the course of these hearings about what these vigilante groups were intending to do and who they communicated with in Trump's orbit.

That's the word Bennie Thompson used. That word can contain almost anybody. Is it White House staff? Is it people who simply are the flunkies that hang around? But that question is going to be key.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Elie, before we get to what jumped out to you from the hearing last night, what about? The fact that the Proud Boys weren't at his speech, they were heading to the capitol during that time.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Clearly, they had heard enough, or they already had a plan. I'm filing this whole category under the heading of "we need to see more on this."

Because, to me, one of the biggest questions that remains is, what were those conversations -- that's what Representative Bennie Thompson confirmed. There were conversations between these extremist groups and the orbit.

As John said, orbit can mean anything. Does it mean Mark Meadows? Does it mean Roger Stone? Does it mean even someone even one step out?

And what were those conversations? Because conversations can mean just about anything.

So we need to see more on this. But one of the big questions is, is there a decisive link on a relevant topic between these groups?

AVLON: What we do know is the charge of seditious conspiracy brought down on members of both of these groups? That's the kind of bar we've been looking for, conspiracy to overturn an election. That's also what this is about.

BLACKWELL: Vice Chair Liz Cheney says, at the next hearing, next week, it will be about specifically the Big Lie and that the president knew that he had lost this election.

We heard from a member of the campaign, we heard from a member of the administration, Jason Miller, Bill Barr.

Let's play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON MILLER, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: I was in the Oval Office and, at some point in the conversation, the lead data person was brought on. And I remember he delivered to the president in pretty blunt terms that he was going to lose.

BILL BARR, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: I made it clear I did not agree with the idea of saying the election was stolen and putting out this stuff, which I told the president was bullshit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: John, he knew. He knew when he was telling a lie that it was just that, a Big Lie.

AVLON: Yes. And now we know even clearer than before that people in the White House consistently were telling the president that you lost the election fair and square and that he couldn't handle the truth, so he responded with the Big Lie.

And people fell for it. And it ultimately culminated on January 6th. But we have that cold now. All these folks, who believed Trump, were duped.

CAMEROTA: Yes. But I didn't know that he knew before the election that he was going to lose. That was new.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: So not only did he know he lost, which we heard --

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: -- he knew that he was -- the data guy said you're going to lose.

HONIG: To me, the biggest take-away from the night was to watch Liz Cheney systematically deconstruct the Big Lie. And we're going to apparently hear more on Monday.

I mean, she eviscerated it. No sentient human being could watch that evidence and say, oh, Donald Trump really did think he won, he was acting from a genuine conviction that he had won.

And the brilliance of it is she did it using Donald Trump's associates, Donald Trump's people. She did it using Bill Barr, his data guy, his consultants. And it's extra devastating when you do it that way.

But really, I think it's a smart approach because she's pulling the weeds up by the root. Because all of this, the coup attempt, the attack on the capitol, they all spring from the Big Lie.

BLACKWELL: We heard about 10 to 15 seconds of Ivanka Trump's testimony. They teased it out that it was going to be part of night one. Do you think it was of any real value?

HONIG: Frankly, I think it was irrelevant.

The fact that Ivanka Trump said, well, I believed Bill Barr, that would never be admissible in a court of law. It's not relevant. It's atmospherics. And candidly, I think that was an attempt to twist the knife a little bit in Donald Trump.

AVLON: But, I mean, I think what folks see at home is that even the president's children didn't believe his lies. And I think that matters.

I think part of this is about making sure we don't get numb to the real stakes of this. There are a lot of things going on in the world. We have high inflation, the war in Ukraine.

But this is foundational. This was an attempt by a former president to use the powers of the presidency to overturn an election and destroy your democracy.

[14:35:04]

There's nothing bigger than that. There's nothing more fundamental than that. So you've got to stay focused on the larger issue. That's what I think last night did.

HONIG: It's a great point. And I get it. And I get why it resonates atmospherically.

But if we're asking the question, how is DOJ going to translate this into a prosecution? Never in a million years would you be able to get that testimony in.

It's irrelevant whether the defendant subject's loved ones believed something he did or did not.

(CROSSTALK)

HONIG: So this is politics and law.

CAMEROTA: Fair enough.

Elie, John, thank you.

AVLON: Thank you.

HONIG: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: We are joined now by Congressman Ted Lieu. He serves on the Judiciary Committee and served as an impeachment manager during President Trump's impeachment hearings.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

What jumped out at you from the hearing? What was new, I should say? What did you hear last night that you hadn't known before?

REP. TED LIEU (D-CA): Thank you, Alisyn and Victor, for your question.

Let me first commend the January 6th committee for presenting the truth about January 6th in an understandable, compelling matter.

And the history books are going to teach our children that our nation's capital was violently attacked on January 6th, that the attack resulted in over 140 police officers getting injured and that Donald Trump incited the attack.

Now, what jumped out at me is that having served in the former administration when I was in Congress and Trump was president, he's not stupid.

But Donald Trump believes his own supporters are stupid. That's why he knows he can tell them the craziest things and they end up believing it, such as the Big Lie.

And it really jumped out at me when Bill Barr said that the election conspiracy theories were bullshit.

CAMEROTA: By the way, it's not just his supporters. It's a lot of your colleagues. I mean, I think there were 147 of your Republican colleagues who believed that enough to vote to overturn the election results.

How do you explain that?

LIEU: Actually, I've talked to some of them. They actually don't believe it because they think their supporters are stupid, too.

They know in their hearts that Donald Trump lost the election. He got crushed in the popular vote. He lost multiple swing states. It was not a close election.

And there's no evidence of voter fraud. And for folks who believe the election was stolen, you're believing in bullshit. Don't believe in bullshit.

CAMEROTA: Which of your colleagues has told you that they know they're B.S.-ing?

LIEU: I'm not going to name them on air.

Again, ask any Republican member of Congress who stole the election. They cannot tell you. Ask them how the election was stolen. They cannot tell you.

That's because the election wasn't stolen. There's been numerous audits of multiple states. Trump lost 60 court cases. Trump is the only president in United States history to not accept the will of the American people.

He tried and attempted a coup. It is unfortunate. But the fact is his supporters have to deal with the fact that the American people rose up and fired him.

CAMEROTA: You just alluded to this, but one of the most shocking things of that whole day -- and again we saw it on full display yesterday -- was just the violence.

These rabid Trump supporters and the violence they used against police officers. As you said, more than 110 of them were injured. Five of them later lost their lives.

And we had never heard this account before from Officer Edwards of what she was having to contend with.

So let me just play a portion of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAROLINE EDWARDS, U.S. CAPITOL POLICE OFFICER: There were officers on the ground, you know, they were bleeding, they were throwing up, they had -- I mean, I saw friends with blood all over their faces. I was slipping in people's blood.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: As you know, so many of your Republican colleagues, as well as right-wing media, try to equate what happened that day with the protests around George Floyd's death and the Black Lives Matter protests.

What do you say to that argument when they try to do that?

LIEU: We should condemn violent protests anywhere. On January 6th, it was clear that you had a mob descending on Capitol Hill that was there because a president called them on January 6th.

Why did he pick January 6th? Because that was the date that Congress was going to certify his loss.

And he told these people to march to the capitol and to fight. And he knew that they were going to end up fighting Capitol Police officers.

And he has not yet apologized to the officers that were brutally assaulted by Trump supporters.

CAMEROTA: In light of all of this, everything that we heard last night, everything that we're going to hear, what do you want the attorney general to do?

LIEU: I want the attorney general of the United States to understand that it is a horrible precedent to go after the former president of the United States.

And the only precedent worse than that is to not go after someone who violated the law, because that's even more corrosive.

[14:40:10]

And I hope the attorney general of the United States balances those two factors.

CAMEROTA: Do you feel like the window is closing for the attorney general to take some action?

LIEU: I think the attorney general is assembling all the facts and evidence and that he will make a judgment based on the law and the facts.

I can tell you that it's hard to watch the January 6th committee hearings and not conclude that a former president of the United States should be in handcuffs.

CAMEROTA: Congressman Ted Lieu, thank you. We appreciate your time.

LIEU: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: The school police chief in Uvalde is defending the response to the mass shooting that left 19 children and two teachers dead. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:45:31]

BLACKWELL: The Uvalde school police chief, Pete Arradondo, who has come under intense scrutiny for the massacre at Robb Elementary, is now defending and, in some cases, explaining his choices.

He spoke to the "Texas Tribune" by phone and gave written answers to statements provided by an attorney.

CAMEROTA: So this was his explanation for why he did not have radio communications during the massacre.

Quote, "Thinking he was the first officer to arrive and wanting to waste no time, Arradondo believed that carrying the radios would slow him down. One had a whip-like antenna that would hit him as he ran. The other had a clip that Arradondo knew would cause it to fall off his tactical belt during a long run."

"Arradondo said he knew from experience that the radios did not work in some school buildings. But that decision also meant that for the rest of the ordeal, he was not in radio contact with the scores of other officers from at least five agencies that swarmed the scene."

Joining us now is retired LAPD Sergeant Cheryl Dorsey.

Sergeant Dorsey, thank you so much.

So explain this. So he said it would hamper his running, slow him down while he was running, his radios. Does that make sense?

CHERYL DORSEY, RETIRED LAPD SERGEANT: Listen, rationalizing B.S. You could look at him and tell a one-pound radio is not going to slow down his response.

And then to further exacerbate this ridiculous excuse for not doing more, to say that I've got radios that don't work in my building.

Chief, did you not know that before you went into that building? And why do you have officers on your agency with police radios that are useless?

All of this is just a complete display of incompetence, his arrogance in trying to make us believe that somehow having a radio in his hand was going to further complicate things, his hands need to be free.

Why? So he could stick them up his nether region?

He should be disqualified from holding any office. And I hope, I hope that the people of Uvalde figure out a way to hold him accountable.

Because listen, there's an investigative review and a report that's going to come. We already know what happened. My question is, how do you hold this man accountable?

BLACKWELL: Well, now he's a member of the city council, so he now has larger purview over the city.

Sergeant, the day that we heard from Texas officials that it was the school police chief who was in charge, your question was, how is this man in charge of this operation?

According to this report from the "Texas Tribune," he didn't know that he was the on-scene commander. He said that he gave no instructions.

How is that possible? I mean, is that something that's established as soon as every individual arrives on scene?

DORSEY: He's being intellectually dishonest. He is the chief of police of that school district. And so he is the incident commander. He's the top-ranking official on that department. That's his jurisdiction. This is his fiefdom.

And so he keeps coming up with reasons for not acting and doing anything. Could you imagine my police chief, Mike Moore, saying, when I show up on a scene, I'm not in charge, who should I talk to? It's not sensible.

CAMEROTA: Sergeant, he also explained for the first time, at least that we're hearing, why he couldn't get into that classroom.

So basically, here's that explanation.

"The chief of police for the Uvalde school district spent more than an hour in the hallway of Robb Elementary school. He called for tactical gear, a sniper and keys to get inside, holding back from the doors for 40 minutes to avoid provoking sprays of gunfire."

"When the keys arrived, he tried dozens of them but, one by one, they failed to work. 'Each time, I tried a key, I was just praying,' Arradondo said. Finally, 77 minutes after the massacre began, officers were able to unlock the door and shoot the gunman."

I thought police officers had a master key to things like this. Why didn't he have a master key?

DORSEY: Listen, I mean, his excuses are beyond galling. And it makes no sense.

To think that a police chief -- you're going to stand outside of a door while babies are being massacred, decapitated, according to medical staff because of the number of rounds that are being fired into their bodies.

And you're going to stand outside and go through a key ring with 800 keys on it trying to figure out which one is going to work? It makes no sense.

[14:50:00]

And he's the chief of this very small department. It's only six officers. So you understand that he should have at least one key that would get him in every classroom in that school district.

It just makes no sense. And it further victimizes these families.

He needs to shut up. That's what he needs to do.

BLACKWELL: Retired LAPD Sergeant Cheryl Dorsey, we appreciate the analysis. Thank you. A baby who was last seen more than decades ago is now found. We will

speak with the family members who are soon going to reunite with Baby Holly.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:55:15]

BLACKWELL: After more than 40 years missing, a little girl known as Baby Holly has been found. Her whereabouts had been a mystery. Her parents were murdered in 1981. Their remains were found then in the woods of Texas but there were no signs of their child.

Her parents' remains were just identified, confirmed last year through DNA testing. And police are still searching for their killers.

Well, Holly is now 42 years old.

Joining us now are Holly's biological grandmother, Donna Casasanta, and biological aunt, Debbie Brooks.

Thank you so much for being with me.

This is fantastic news that, after all of this time, she has been found.

Donna, let me start with you.

I understand that you haven't, face to face, been with your granddaughter, but you have now seen her. Tell me about that moment.

DONNA CASASANTA, BIOLOGICAL GRANDMOTHER OF BABY HOLLY: Well, it was a really great moment. All kinds of feelings come to you.

Looking at her, and I remember holding her as a little baby, and I was just overwhelmed, you know. And I wanted to just jump up and hug her, but you can't because you're doing the Zoom, you know.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

CASASANTA: So maybe eventually in person.

DEBBIE BROOKS, BIOLOGICAL AUNT OF BABY HOLLY: Yes, but --

CASASANTA: I mean, you take one look at her, and you can tell she's definitely family.

BROOKS: She's definitely family.

(LAUGHTER)

CASASANTA: She's definitely family. You can definitely see it.

BLACKWELL: So you knew the first moment that you saw.

Have you planned when you will be reunited, when you'll be back together?

BROOKS: Well, I know that we're trying to put something together. Right now, I don't think she's ready.

She just found out on the 7th, which was my brother's birthday, about her parents, and that she's got this huge extensive family when she thought she was an only child.

And so I think a little overwhelming. She's still processing everything. We don't want to push ourselves on her until she's ready.

BLACKWELL: Debbie, we understand how your brother and your sister-in- law, they were confirmed, their bodies, their identities after 40 years.

But how did they connect your niece, Baby Holly, to the couple, to her parents?

BROOKS: Well, the -- I'm not sure how you pronounce it, NCMEC, I think it is. They have been heavily involved with the detectives in trying to find her.

So we had mentioned about, you know, she was born in New Smyrna in Fish Hospital here at New Smyrna Beach, Florida, and the detectives tried to get that birth certificate but they couldn't because it had been sealed, if you will.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

BROOKS: They had to go through a lot of red tape, if you will, to get it unsealed.

Once they got it unsealed, then they saw that there was an adoption attached to it. Once they saw the adoption that was attached to it, then they were able to track down who adopted her. And that's how we found her.

BLACKWELL: Donna, 40 years that your granddaughter has been missing. Did you believe that she was still alive, that she was still out there somewhere, and you would be able to find her?

CASASANTA: I just kept praying and hoping, and never gave up hope and believing in the Lord that he would reveal it to me eventually.

I asked him to let me know what happened to my son and his wife and the baby before I die. And it's all happening. So we never gave up. None of us.

BROOKS: Our fear was -- I think these all 40 years, our fear was that she might have been caught in human trafficking --

CASASANTA: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

BROOKS: -- or she might have been sexually abused or by a cult or something like that.

We just didn't know what had happened to her. And we were just hoping and praying that nothing bad had happened to her.

CASASANTA: Yes.

BLACKWELL: Listen, I know that it's going to take some time for Baby Holly to reach out and embrace her biological family. And you say you understand that.

I understand, though, that you got some nieces and nephews, and great grandchildren to spoil.

CASASANTA: Yes.

BLACKWELL: Have you seen them? Do you know about them?

CASASANTA: Well, she brought with her on the Zoom meeting.

BROOKS: Her daughter.

CASASANTA: Her daughter, and a couple of grandchildren were --

BROOKS: Just her daughter.

CASASANTA: Just one?

BROOKS: Yes.

[14:59:57]

CASASANTA: I thought it was --

BROOKS: Uh, uh.

CASASANTA: Not her granddaughter?

BROOKS: Uh, uh.

CASASANTA: Grandson?

BROOKS: You saw pictures.

CASASANTA: Oh, OK. I'm sorry.

BLACKWELL: All right.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)