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Zelenskyy Inspects Damage from Russian Military Strikes; June Temperature Records Broken in Europe; French Elections; January 6 Hearings; COVID Vaccines for Young Children; Oakland Declares Racism a Public Health Threat. Aired 4-5a ET
Aired June 19, 2022 - 04:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Welcome to all you watching us here in the United States, Canada and around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber. Ahead on CNN NEWSROOM --
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VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We will not give away the south to anyone. We will return everything that's ours and the sea will be Ukrainian and safe.
BRUNHUBER (voice-over): Ukraine's president vows that he is not giving up even one inch of territory to the Russians as new explosions rock the country's capital.
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BRUNHUBER (voice-over): And plus hundreds of heat records broken in Europe and the United States. We'll look at whether there is any relief in sight.
And children as young as 6 months old just days away from getting COVID shots.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Live from CNN Center, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Kim Brunhuber.
BRUNHUBER: We're tracking developments in Ukraine, where the area around the capital, Kyiv, was rattled by a series of explosions a short time ago. Military officials say air defenses worked on enemy targets but so far no fires or casualties reported. Officials are urging people to stay in shelters.
Meanwhile two European leaders say the war may drag on for years. Boris Johnson and Jens Stoltenberg made the statements separately and both said that the West should be in for the long haul. And President Zelenskyy is pledging to regain all the territories
captured by Russia in Ukraine's south. He spoke after visiting two cities in the region and seeing residential areas hammered by artillery and missiles.
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ZELENSKYY (through translator): The losses are significant. Many houses were destroyed, civilian logistics were disrupted, there were many social issues. We will definitely restore everything that was destroyed.
Russia does not have as many missiles as our people have the desire to live. We will not give away the south to anyone. We will return everything that is ours and the sea will be Ukrainian and safe.
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BRUNHUBER: And Salma Abdelaziz is monitoring the latest developments and she is joining us from Kyiv.
Let's start with the explosions there in Kyiv.
What more do we know?
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Early hours of this morning, we heard air raid sirens. Those are not completely uncommon. But this time we did later hear explosions, one of our local producers hearing those.
And from officials we found out that Kyiv's air defense systems were deployed and they were able to intercept Russian missiles. Not clear what the target was but it is rare that Kyiv is targeted. Yet another reminder of Russia's ability to target the capital.
And it is a day after President Zelenskyy made this important visit along the front lines, first to Mykolaiv, that has been a major flashpoint. Near the beginning of the war, there were dozens killed and wounded in that attack.
And a couple weeks ago, a grain silo was truck struck. And civilian neighborhoods also have been struck by Russian artillery. President Zelenskyy was touring some of this damage in a residential area, standing alongside the local governor.
And he spoke to the cameras and said special attention was paid to threats from land and sea, we do not stop working for victory, really a continuation of President Zelenskyy's strategy. He is an ever- present leader, he wants to continue to boost morale.
So that visit was very important to that flashpoint city. He then went on to Odessa. That is, of course, ever more important for Ukraine because of the occupation of so much of the southern coast now by Russian forces, of course, the area now occupied by Russian troops.
So Odessa is that key port for Ukrainians and they say that Russians are not allowing ships to go through. So President Zelenskyy was receiving an update on nine civilian ships that local officials say are being blocked by Russian forces.
Black Sea itself has become a flashpoint. So that is why you heard there the importance of the sea. Ukraine lost much of its navy in 2014 during the Crimea conflict. But yet it has been able to inflict damage on the Russian Navy. And so there is a sense that that power, that resistance is extremely important.
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ABDELAZIZ: And, of course, we're looking at Ukrainian forces, who are facing a much more superior military, outgunned and outmanned. But for Zelenskyy it is not just about the sheer firepower, it is about keeping that spirit of resistance and strength on the front lines.
BRUNHUBER: Salma Abdelaziz, thanks so much.
Earlier CNN spoke with Maria Avdeeva, a security expert and a resident of Kharkiv, a city that suffered heavy bombardment since the start of the war. And she talked to us about the staggering toll of Russia's attacks and the long road to normal life that eventually lies ahead.
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MARIA AVDEEVA, SECURITY EXPERT AND KHARKIV RESIDENT: According to the latest data, the government officials in Kharkiv tell us it's about now 3,000 residential buildings that were severely damaged or destroyed since the beginning of the war and including 100 schools and about 90 kindergartens.
And that means that Russia is deliberately targeting not only residential areas but also critical infrastructure and also all the objects that allow the city to function normally. And that means that it will not be -- the city will not be able to return to the normal life soon because people just don't have their homes where to return.
The schools will not return back to normal.
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BRUNHUBER: Many thanks to Maria for speaking with us.
This war has prompted an historic shift in European security. Last month Sweden and Finland set aside decades of neutrality and formally applied to join NATO but their bid faced backlash from Turkiye, which accuses them of housing Kurdish terrorist groups.
NATO officials say they're working to address Turkiye's concerns but some Swedish Kurds are watching the talks with rising concerns of their own. Nina dos Santos reports.
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NINA DOS SANTOS, CNNMONEY EUROPE EDITOR (voice-over): Locals are uneasy that they have been dragged in to Sweden's NATO negotiations. "Of course we're scared," this man says.
"We're caught in the middle," says another, "and we're not being given a say."
Weeks after its application, Sweden's plans to join NATO remain in limbo, thanks to Turkiye, which claims that Kurdish separatists operate from these shores. That is something Sweden denies. Yet Ankara is still trying to extradite dozens of people, including members of Sweden's own parliament, most of whom have no links to Turkiye, like the men in this room, born in Iran and Iraq.
Edwin (ph) is saying, if you are a Kurd and you want freedom, you are a terrorist, says Karin Rasuli (ph).
That is not true. No matter where you come from, if you are a Kurd, you will have problems with Turkiye, Bahir (ph) says.
PAUL LEVIN, INSTITUTE FOR TURKISH STUDIES, STOCKHOLM UNIVERSITY: From the Turkish perspective, they are saying Sweden, you want to join a military alliance, where we are one of the members, we perceive these groups as national security threats.
They make the same demands on other NATO member states but they don't have the same leverage as they do, now that Sweden is waiting to come in.
DOS SANTOS: Sweden is home to about 100,000 Kurds, almost 1 percent of the entire population. And there is widespread sympathy for their cause. That means that as Turkiye continues to stall Sweden's NATO bid, there is a growing sense of indignation.
DOS SANTOS (voice-over): Swedes are almost split on NATO and Kurds have differing views, too. And this Iraqi Kurd says that he is against NATO membership.
"Look at what NATO members did in my country," he said. "They completely destroyed it. I'm strongly affected by this," he says, "since I've come here as a prisoner of war."
Turks fighting for Kurdish rights in Sweden are also stoking Ankara's ire.
RAJIP SARUKOLO (PH), NOBEL PEACE PRIZE NOMINEE: This is my Kurdish award. They gave me when I was in the prison.
This 74-year-old Turkish born Nobel Peace Prize nominee, Rajip Sarukolo (ph) is now a Swedish citizen. But he is fighting off extradition to Turkiye for his writing in defense of minorities there.
SARUKOLO (PH): I feel at rest (ph) I'm a Swedish citizen and how can Swedish government can make a bargain on this issue. I can't find the words to define this strangeness, this absurdity.
DOS SANTOS (voice-over): Sweden decided to join NATO to make its population safer after Russia invaded Ukraine. Yet for a part of the people, the process of accession is making them feel anything but secure -- Nina dos Santos, CNN, Sweden.
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BRUNHUBER: A dangerous heat wave is crossing over parts of Europe. In France, more than 200 monthly high temperature records were broken on Saturday. Several southwestern cities even saw all-time highs. Thankfully, the high pressure system responsible for the heat is moving east, making way for cooler temperatures.
Spain is also experiencing unseasonable hotter than normal temperatures. This is the most extreme early heat wave the country has seen in more than four decades. Sweltering dry heat and windy conditions are causing wildfires in several parts of Spain.
In Portugal, about a dozen villages have been evacuated in the northwest as hundreds of firefighters battle to get the blazes under control.
And in a mountain range, almost 20,000 hectares have been scorched. That is close to 50,000 acres.
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BRUNHUBER: One of America's iconic national parks is set to partially reopen next week after historic flooding. The U.S. Park Service says the South Loop of Yellowstone will reopen to the public on a limited basis starting Wednesday. This area includes the famous Old Faithful geyser.
U.S. Geological Survey says unprecedented rain and rapid snow melt caused devastating flooding and says it was a one in 500 year event. Some of the worst hit areas of the park are in the state of Montana. But Yellowstone also covers parts of Wyoming and Idaho.
Strong winds and brutal head are spreading wildfire in Utah. Because of the erratic winds, aircraft used to fight the flames have been grounded. The state's governor told residents to take extra precautions, saying it is impossible to overstate the fire danger right now with the heat and wind.
Just ahead, Colombians are about to choose a new president but one vice presidential candidate could make history. We'll have a look at that when we come back.
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(MUSIC PLAYING) BRUNHUBER: The stage is set for the presidential runoff election in Colombia between the leftist former guerilla, Gustavo Petro, and the populist self-proclaimed king of TikTok, Rodolfo Hernandez.
Some of the key issues dominating the election are the economy, income inequality, corruption and a rapidly degrading security situation, made worse by criminal drug gangs.
Petro is promising sweeping social and economic reforms, while Hernandez has campaigned on anti-corruption rhetoric and calls to shrink government.
The election could see a number of firsts, among which is Petro's choice of a running mate. If Gustavo Petro wins, Colombia could have its first Black vice president. Here is a look at the potential history-making ticket.
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STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Francia Marquez left school at 16 due to a teenage pregnancy, she would have never thought, 25 years later, her name would be chanted on the streets.
It's a remarkable turnaround for a political leader, whose career began as a gold miner, then as a house cleaner, an environmental defender and now a candidate for the vice presidency of Colombia.
This Sunday, the same name is on the ballot as the left-wing coalition tries to reach power for the first time in Colombia's history. And Marquez could become the first vice president of Afro-Colombian dissent, a significant moment she is fully aware of.
FRANCIA MARQUEZ, COLOMBIAN VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (through translator): I was thinking of that dream of Martin Luther King. I also have a dream. I have a dream to see my country at peace, to see my country full of joy and dignity.
POZZEBON (voice-over): Her candidacy has energized a new generation under the slogan of "Let's have a flavorful life," but has also been the target of hate and racist attacks. She held rallies behind gun shields after receiving death threats, while a famous singer called her King Kong on the campaign trail.
POZZEBON: Only the ballots this Sunday will say if Francia Marquez is successful and her quest for office a triumph. But even if it ended in defeat, her supporters say she has already made history, because the barriers she broke to come here date back from centuries.
POZZEBON (voice-over): The Afro-Colombian community traces its roots to slaves brought here in the 1600s. Marquez herself told CNN that one of her ancestors was enslaved in Africa and taken to Colombia to work in gold mines.
Columbia's Pacific coast is home to the second largest of her descendant community in South America but one that has been historically neglected and marginalized. Here, people say, it's easier to join the army than go to university. For young people like Marlin Garces, Marquez represents a change for the entire community.
MARLIN GARCES, MARQUEZ SUPPORTER (through translator): We're moving from struggle to power. We're showing this is not temporary. The community identifies with this battle.
POZZEBON (voice-over): Change often happens in an unexpected way. It was 2008 When hope and change swept the first African American president into office in the U.S. Back then, Marquez was a single mother of two, cleaning homes to make a living. Now, it's her supporters who chant, "Yes, we can" -- Stefano Pozzebon, CNN, Colombia.
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BRUNHUBER: Voters in France are heading to the polls right now for the fourth time in two months, as legislative elections wrap up today. More than 48 million people are registered to vote in hundreds of runoff races. More than 25 million voters abstained from the first round of legislative elections.
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BRUNHUBER: President Macron's party and its alliance need 289 seats to form a majority government in the national assembly. It won't be easy. He is facing a tough challenge by blocs on both the Left and the Right.
Election officials from key battleground states set to testify when the January 6 hearings resume this week. Just ahead, we'll explain why the select committee wants to hear of Donald Trump's conversations with those officials after he lost the 2020 election. Stay with us.
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BRUNHUBER: Welcome back to all of you watching here in the United States, Canada and around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber.
Hearings resume on Tuesday in the investigation of the deadly riot on January 6. It will focus on Donald Trump's attempts to coerce several state officials to throw out their 2020 election results after he lost. One member of the select committee explained why the upcoming hearing is critical.
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REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D), MEMBER, JANUARY 6 SELECT COMMITTEE: We will get information about this broad effort to illegally seize the election, even though he'd -- seize the presidency even though he had lost the election. As you can tell from our first hearings, there are different ways that
he tried to do that, by pressuring the vice president and failing. And now we'll hear about his pressure on the states to replace the electors chosen by the voters.
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BRUNHUBER: Marshall Cohen takes a look at what is ahead.
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MARSHALL COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The January 6th committee continues its work next week with a major hearing set for Tuesday. This is the fourth public hearing and it will focus on former president Donald Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election in two specific states that he lost, Georgia and Arizona.
The panel will feature testimony from two senior Georgia officials, secretary of state Brad Raffensperger and one of his top deputies, Gabe Sterling. They are both conservative Republicans who supported Trump in 2020.
But they refused to do his bidding after the election, when he pressured them to interfere with the vote counting. In a critical phone call, just a few days before January 6th, former president Trump desperately tried to get Raffensperger to mess with the vote tallies and overturn Joe Biden's victory. Take a listen to that shocking call.
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TRUMP: So look, all I want to do is this. I just want to find, uh, 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state.
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COHEN: The committee will also hear from Rusty Bowers. He's currently the speaker of the Arizona House of Representatives. He's a Republican and he also supported Donald Trump in 2020.
Just like the other witnesses who are testifying, Bowers was on the receiving end of a pressure campaign by Trump and Trump's attorney at the time, Rudy Giuliani. They wanted him to toss aside Biden's victory in Arizona and appoint Republican electors instead.
But Bowers publicly rejected those efforts and he publicly rejected Trump's baseless claims of massive voter fraud. Also earlier this year, he even blocked a bill that some Republicans were pushing in Arizona that would have allowed the Republican legislature there to overturn elections in future.
So look, the Democratic-run select committee has tried to drive home the point that January 6th was about so much more than what happened at the Capitol. They say it was a months-long effort to overturn the will of the people and, in the view of the committee, they say it was an attempted coup -- Marshall Cohen, CNN, Washington.
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BRUNHUBER: Despite a growing mountain of evidence against him, the former president is lashing out, telling friendly audiences that the riot at the U.S. Capitol wasn't an insurrection. Here he is Saturday at a rally near Memphis.
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TRUMP: The false and ridiculous story they are pushing of the so- called insurrection to overthrow the United States government is a complete and total hoax and everyone knows it.
And you know who knows it best of all?
The unselects. The uncelebrity committee.
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BRUNHUBER: Kellyanne Conway, who was one of Trump's top White House aides, says a more nuanced response that day, especially the death threats against then vice president Mike Pence, she spoke earlier with Michael Smerconish, who asked her if she blamed Trump for the violence.
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KELLYANNE CONWAY, FORMER TRUMP ADVISER: I certainly blame the people yelling hang Mike Pence. And I would think that given he's the vice president there are federal laws in place that would be able to prosecute some people criminally. And I am all for investigating what happened. I am all for prosecuting people who committed crimes.
I'm also very proud of what Donald Trump and Mike Pence accomplished together for this country over four years. And that will not be washed away by anything.
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BRUNHUBER: A number of people died at the Capitol on January 6 and in the days that followed. And one of them was capital police officer Brian Sicknick, who was injured during the riot. His death the following day was attributed to natural causes.
Sicknick and other officers guarding Congress were quickly overwhelmed as a massive crowd surged the Capitol after Trump told them to, quote, "fight like hell."
Sicknick's girlfriend says she holds Trump responsible for everyone who lost their lives.
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SANDRA GARZA, BRIAN SICKNICK'S PARTNER: We don't know what would have happened. Brian died from natural causes but we don't know what the next day or the day after that would have led to. We have no way of knowing.
But Donald Trump wanted to step in there and play a higher power. I believe that all of the people that died on that day and the days following, you know, would still be here today had it not been for Donald Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: Upcoming hearings are expected to focus on Trump's actions both before and during the deadly rampage. And CNN will bring you this week's hearings live on Tuesday and Thursday. And our coverage begins both days at 1:00 pm Eastern time, that is 6:00 in the evening in London.
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BRUNHUBER: Many American parents could soon get their wish, inoculations for their young children against COVID-19. Dr. Rochelle Walensky, director of the U.S. CDC, has approved the emergency use of Pfizer and Moderna vaccines for the kids. Jacqueline Howard has more.
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JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH CORRESPONDENT: The White House says shots could begin as early as this week. Pediatricians' offices and pharmacies will be the sites where most of these vaccines will be administered.
And remember, children under 5 will have two options, Moderna or Pfizer. The FDA authorized both for children as young as 6 months old.
Moderna is administered in two doses, given four weeks apart as a primary series. Pfizer is administered in three doses as a primary series. So the first two doses are given three weeks apart. The third dose is given at least eight weeks after the second dose.
And the dosage is different for each vaccine. Moderna is given as 25 micrograms, each dose. That's for kids 5 and younger. And that's half of the 50 micrograms given to older kids and a quarter of the 100 micrograms given to adolescents and adults.
Pfizer is given as three micrograms per dose for children younger than 5. That's smaller than the 10 micrograms given to older kids and the 30 micrograms given to adolescents and adults.
For both vaccines, when it comes to side effects, those include pain at the injection site, fever, headache, chills and fatigue. And both companies, Moderna and Pfizer, have said that these child-sized doses of vaccine appear to elicit immune responses in kids that are similar to what we've seen in adults so far who received larger doses -- back to you.
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BRUNHUBER: Americans are celebrating the country's newest national holiday. Coming up, we'll take a look at the festivities and history of Juneteenth.
And after the COVID pandemic exposed disparities between white and Black communities in Oakland, California, the city council declared racism to be a public health crisis. That is ahead. Stay with us.
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BRUNHUBER: Cities around the U.S. are holding parades and festivities all weekend long in honor of Juneteenth. It commemorates the end of slavery in the U.S. after the Civil War. It officially takes place on Sunday, as the name is a blend of June and 19th.
The celebration in Buffalo, New York, was particularly bittersweet. Residents there are still grieving from the racist mass shooting just over a month ago.
Last year Juneteenth became the first federal holiday in the U.S. to be approved in nearly 40 years. Fredricka Whitfield has more now on its history and the long road for its national recognition.
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FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Juneteenth is a celebration that marks the end of slavery in the United States. Also known as Emancipation Day, many consider it to be the country's second Independence Day.
It was on June 19, 1865, that Union soldiers, led by this man, General Gordon Granger, arrived in Galveston, Texas, with orders to inform residents that the Civil War had ended and to tell enslaved African Americans they were finally free.
The message came more than two years after President Abraham Lincoln had issued the Emancipation Proclamation. His order was difficult to enforce. So many slaves didn't see freedom until the end of the war.
Many African Americans have marked the anniversary for years. But it was a woman from Texas named Opal Lee, who started a movement to make Juneteenth a federal holiday.
Known as the grandmother of Juneteenth, the 95-year old campaigned on the issue for decades. She even held a 2.5-mile march each year to commemorate the 2.5 years it took for slaves in Texas to learn they were free.
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OPAL LEE, GRANDMOTHER OF JUNETEENTH: Please, please continue the kinds of things that you know we need to become one people here. It's not a white thing, it's not a Black thing. It's an American thing. (END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD (voice-over): In 1980, Texas became the first state to make Juneteenth a state holiday. By 2019, 47 states and the District of Columbia followed suit. Last year, President Joe Biden signed a law making Juneteenth a federal holiday, a dream come true for Lee and for so many others.
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BIDEN: By making Juneteenth a federal holiday, all Americans can feel the power of this day and learn from our history and celebrate progress and grapple with the distance we've come but the distance we have to travel to.
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WHITFIELD (voice-over): A historical marker can be seen today in Galveston, Texas, at the site where General Granger and his troops set up their headquarters, announcing the end of slavery.
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WHITFIELD (voice-over): Today, Americans recognize Juneteenth with parties and gatherings and the day is marked as a celebration of African American freedom and achievement.
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LEE: I'd scream it from the housetops, that unity is freedom. People have been taught to hate. And if people have been taught to hate, they can be taught to love.
WHITFIELD (voice-over): Fredericka Whitfield, CNN.
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BRUNHUBER: Viewers here can see special coverage marking the holiday, "Juneteenth: A Global Celebration for Freedom" begins Sunday night at 8:00 pm Eastern. Join Don Lemon for special coverage before the concert. That starts at 7:00 pm Eastern, only here on CNN.
Earlier this month, the city council of Oakland, California, approved a resolution declaring racism to be a public health crisis. This is after the COVID-19 pandemic exposed inequality between white and minority residents in the city.
The office of the city attorney told CNN the resolution is not responding to any singular incident but sparked by the way that racial health and economic disparities grew dramatically during the COVID-19 pandemic in Oakland and beyond.
And it reminds us that racism have profoundly harmed communities and left disturbing health disparities. It took time to draft this in a thoughtful way.
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BRUNHUBER: Joining me now is Dr. Kim Rhoads, an associate professor in epidemiology and biostatistics at the University of California/San Francisco School of Medicine.
Thanks so much for being here with us. So take us behind the reason for this move.
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BRUNHUBER: Why has racism led to a public health crisis in Oakland?
DR. KIM RHOADS, UCSF SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Well, thank you so much for having me on. I would start by saying that racism is a public health crisis across the country.
And I want to applaud my city of Oakland for having the courage to name it as such. I think that it is important because it really reflects on the long shadow of slavery, which has translated into, as you know, racial segregation in housing, education, disease prevention and ultimately in health care, which has its final impacts in how long people live and how well they live.
BRUNHUBER: By making this declaration, concretely what does it mean beyond acknowledging a problem?
RHOADS: Yes, good point. So first of all, I'd say in everything that we do in health care, in taking care of clinical problems, if you don't name the problem appropriately, if you are incorrect in your diagnosis, then your treatments will be less effective. So I think that the first thing, is to name it.
But the next step has to be about action. One thing I think that is good about what Oakland is doing is there are actual funds been allocated to this effort, to actually make progress against racism in our city.
BRUNHUBER: What role did the pandemic play in highlighting some of these inequalities?
RHOADS: Well, the pandemic really laid bare the sort of social underpinnings of the distribution of disease. So I'd start off by noting how it was so difficult to actually get access to testing at the beginning of the pandemic.
You might not even know that you were infected if you were not in sort of a privileged category of people, whether that is being a physician or if it is having exactly the right symptoms that were being required to get tested or having access to somewhere that had tests.
You may remember there was a shortage of swabs, a shortage of reagents. So it was actually difficult to get. And you had to be socially privileged in order to just access the basic necessities around COVID.
BRUNHUBER: And you were involved in a grassroots way to help underserved communities during this COVID crisis. But let's use a concrete example.
CDC has recommended vaccines for kids 6 months to 5 years. But so far through this pandemic, African Americans have been less likely to get the vaccine or to get boosters.
So how concretely would this declaration help in a situation like this?
RHOADS: I think that is a great question because, going back to the idea that, after all is said and done, a lot more is said than done. The plan is to use the funding to collect more data. I guess a critique I would offer of that is that it is not clear to me that we need more data.
And what we already know, as you pointed out, is that the distribution of resources to combat COVID have not been taken up by certain populations, have not -- there has not been access to it.
Imogen Health, which is the grassroots effort that you made reference to, that I have spearheaded, really, I think, highlights the idea that we just need to try something.
So if the money is going to be spent on data collection, data collection should be around an intervention so that we can ask the question, can we make a difference in equity by actually doing something rather than continuing to measure and not being surprised by the results that again there are inequities and disparities?
BRUNHUBER: As you said, this is far beyond Oakland. And I think only Oakland and Boston have been the two cities that have made this type of declaration.
Do you see this expanding nationwide?
RHOADS: Well, I think that it can expand nationwide if we see interventions, again, from grassroots organizations, who are already working on economic development, on housing and security, on food insecurity, to getting our populations educated.
Measure that. When you see the outcomes from that, when you see people getting engaged and being part of the solution, then I think that other jurisdictions will take it up.
And I also think that we need to do an economic analysis. It is pretty clear, when you lift up economic development, education, give people a place to live, they become productive members of society and our economy will flourish therefore.
So honestly, I don't know if other jurisdictions will take it up before they see this kind of evidence. But the evidence that we need to collect is not more documentation of the problem.
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RHOADS: It is evidence that the solutions actually work.
BRUNHUBER: Well said. We'll have to leave it there. Thank you so much, Dr. Kim Rhoads, really appreciate it.
RHOADS: My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
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BRUNHUBER: There is a tie at the top of the leaderboard at the U.S. Open but it is still anyone's golf tournament heading into the final round. Just ahead, we'll have a look at the two leaders each trying to win his first major. Stay with us.
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BRUNHUBER: And that wraps this hour of CNN NEWSROOM. I'll be back in a moment more news. Please do stay with us.
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