Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

January 6th Committee Holds Surprising Public Hearing; Biden at NATO Summit Rose Gottemoeller is Interviewed about the NATO Summit. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired June 28, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:28]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. Good morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto, reporting from the NATO summit in Madrid.

Just about 30 minutes from now, President Biden set to arrive here for talks intended to demonstrate the alliance's resolve in the face of Russia's increasingly ruthless invasion of Ukraine. Next hour, Biden will meet with the Spanish prime minister as allies discuss sending new and more powerful weapons to Ukraine, but also plans to bolster NATO forces along the alliance's border with Russia.

These talks are happening as Russia carried out yet one more brutal attack on civilians in Ukraine. European allies now accusing Russia of a war crime for a missile attack on a shopping mall that killed at least 18 people. Many more, Poppy, missing this morning.

HARLOW: Absolutely devastating.

We are also, here in the United States, following major developments in the January 6th investigation. In just a few hours, a surprise hearing on Capitol Hill. The January 6th committee will hear live testimony from Cassidy Hutchinson. She was an aide to former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows. And sources tell us that concerns for Hutchinson's security are the reason that this panel has been so secretive about her appearance. We just learned about it late yesterday.

Let's begin this hour with CNN national correspondent Kristen Holmes.

Kristen, good morning.

What more can you tell us about the scope of Hutchinson's testimony today because she has already testified behind closed doors, but clearly they want more answers in public now.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Poppy. Well, that's right. And that really is the big question today. The committee has yet to give us any idea of what the focus or topic of today's hearing is. But Cassidy Hutchinson has long been considered one of the most consequential witnesses for the January 6th committee, given her proximity to President Trump's former chief of staff, Mark Meadows, and therefore events and important conversations surrounding January 6th.

And this rush to have the hearing today, that highlights just how important the committee believes that this testimony could be.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES (voice over): Her testimony has rattled Capitol Hill.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you aware of any members of Congress seeking pardons?

HOLMES: Once a top aide to former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, Cassidy Hutchinson is now a key witness in the House January 6th committee's investigation, giving hours of testimony in multiple sessions.

CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Gaetz and Mr. Brooks, I know both advocated for there to be a blanket pardon for members involved in that meeting and a handful of other members that weren't at the December 21st meeting as the preemptive pardons. Mr. Biggs did. Mr. Gohmert asked for one as well.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Any -

HUTCHINSON: Mr. Perry asked for a pardon too.

HOLMES: Hutchinson worked closely with Meadows in the White House, sitting in on meetings and at times serving as a liaison between the former president's right hand and those seeking to reach him.

Representatives Biggs and Perry have denied seeking pardons. Hutchinson's unique access proving critical.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you hear the White House Counsel's Office say that this plan to have alternate electors meet and cast votes for Donald Trump in states that he had lost was not legally sound?

HUTCHINSON: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And who was present for that meeting that you remember?

HUTCHINSON: Mr. -- it was in our offices. It was Mr. Meadows, Mr. Giuliani and a few of Mr. Giuliani's associates.

MARK MEADOWS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Well, hello, deplorables!

HOLMES: Meadows, who now refuses to be interviewed by the House committee once provided thousands of text messages in the early stages of the investigation, showing him at the center of Trump's lies about the 2020 election. And playing a lead role in attempting to stop Biden's certification on January 6th. Events and conversations Hutchinson had a front row seat to. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who do you remember being involved in those early

discussions around the Thanksgiving time regarding having alternate electors meet?

HUTCHINSON: Mr. Giuliani, several of Mr. Giuliani's associates, Mr. Meadows, members of Congress, although it's difficult to distinguish if the - if the members that I'm thinking of were involved during Thanksgiving or if they were involved as we progressed through December.

[09:05:00]

HOLMES: According to the committee, Hutchinson also testified that Meadows had been directly warned the events of January 6th could turn violent.

Hutchinson has a history in Republican politics. Now in her 20s, she previously worked for other high-profile conservatives, including Ted Cruz and Steve Scalise. Earlier this month, Hutchinson dropping her Trump world attorney for an ally of former attorney general and Trump punching bag Jeff Sessions, fueling speculation Hutchinson would appear live before the committee.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: And Hutchinson has been compared to John Dean. Of course, that is Nixon's White House Counsel, whose famous testimony, Watergate testimony, was what helped bring President Nixon down. If that is an accurate comparison, well, that's something we're going to learn later today.

Poppy.

HARLOW: Kristen, thanks very much for that reporting.

Joining me now to talk about all that we've learned ahead of this testimony, Margaret Talev, CNN political analyst and the managing editor of "Axios," and Elliot Williams, a CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor.

Great to have you both.

Margaret, let's just begin with the fact that Cassidy Hutchinson has already testified behind closed doors, has already been deposed on video, we saw those clips played in prior hearings. What does it say to you that all of a sudden, as a total surprise, she is brought before the American people and this committee on a week when they weren't even planning to have hearings?

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Poppy, it tells me that the committee believes that she has potentially explosive testimony and that it warrants getting it out now. We don't know precisely what that is. We know because of the evidence -- the information that's come out of her multiple depositions so far, we know she had extensive proximity to former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, President Trump himself. We know that she had information about pardons. We know that there's interest in how much information she may have had about documents that Mark Meadows reportedly burned. We don't know what we don't know.

But it's my expectation that there is no way that this hearing would be called with sort of such drama and the unexpected nature and timing if there wasn't information that the committee felt was a big deal, and that time was after (ph).

HARLOW: Yes, clearly, I mean, right before the July 4th holiday.

I mean, Elliot, what we do know from her prior testimony before this committee and her video deposition is that she did say under oath that Meadows and Giuliani were involved in early conversations about putting forward a fake slate of electors.

How do you think that that begins to address the three sort of questions that you believe this committee is honing in on?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, so, just to pick up on that, Poppy, I think there are a couple of big questions that you've seen over the course of these prior hearings. Number one, did anyone in the Trump orbit know what they were doing was illegal? Number two, where did - where or when did President Trump or anyone in the orbit acknowledge that they lost the election. And, number three, what kind of contacts might they have had with the planners or the Proud Boys or any of these people in advance?

So, you know, picking up on Margaret's point, you know, any testimony we're going to see right now on this sort of emergency basis is going to touch on any of those things. And some of the things that Cassidy Hutchinson has said already is the - that she was aware of meetings or conversations with respect to the fake electors and so on. So, no, I would think, again it's hard to speculate right now because it's just so early, but based on these open legal questions, that's probably what we're going to see.

HARLOW: And, you know, Margaret, I mean, what she says is so consequential. The fact that she had -- our reporting is that during one of her previous interviews with the committee, she had said that former President Trump suggested to her then boss, Mark Meadows, that he approved of those hang Mike Pence chants from rioters.

What is the significance of potentially this afternoon the American people hearing that out loud from her and politically also in terms of changing hearts and minds?

TALEV: Again, I think we don't know at this point what she's prepared to testify to, what she's prepared to testify about. But when you have a person like Cassidy Hutchinson, you know, White Houses are filled with young people who are the eyes and ears in the room, and the principles, the chief of staff, a president, lawyers, sometimes forget about these people. They just take for granted that these are the people who are there every day, that they're staffing or just keeping the, you know, wheels turning and they also take for granted that there is almost kind of like a permanent loyalty baked in. January 6th, I think, tested even some of the most diehard supporters

of the president's in terms of who they felt they served and who they had a responsibility (INAUDIBLE) information, and that's what we're - that's -- I think that's what we're going to see and hear today.

HARLOW: Elliot, there have been some who have been using her name at least in the same sentence as, you know, John Dean.

[09:10:03]

And the question is, you know, could this be sort of an Alexander Butterfield moment, which is a point you've raised, Margaret. What do you think, I mean, Elliot?

WILLIAMS: Yes, and this is picking up on exactly Margaret's point. You know, in many -- we talked about this before as well, Poppy, you know, to some extent you're far more likely to get useful testimony about -- from the people in the room rather than the principles in the room. They have all kinds of reasons and lawyers around them and political legacies that they wish to protect the folks at the top, but it's the staff around them that are hearing and seeing everything and may have different loyalties, who may be able to provide far more useful and valuable information.

And, look, we're seeing her today, and not Mark Meadows. That itself is significant.

HARLOW: Yes. It's so significant. They should only have one loyalty, and that is to the Constitution and upholding this very fragile democracy.

Margaret Talev, thanks. Elliot Williams, great to have you both.

Still ahead, absolute tragedy stuck in Texas late yesterday. Fifty migrants found dead in the back of a semitruck in temperatures near 100 degrees. Sixteen more, including children, now at the hospital.

We will also take you live back to Madrid, where President Biden just landed for a critical NATO summit, Jim.

SCIUTTO: That's right. With the war still raging in Ukraine, Poppy, we are getting new reporting that the White House is not confident that Ukraine can win back all of the territory it has lost so far to Russian forces. Still, NATO allies committed to providing weapons toward the fight as long as it takes, they say. I'm going to speak to a former NATO deputy secretary-general for her views. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:15:52]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. I'm Jim Sciutto, live in Madrid, where you can see there, President Biden landed just a few moments ago for the NATO summit. Air Force One there. He'll be greeted by the Spanish king, as well as foreign minister, among others. Later today, he will meet with Spain's prime minister, just in the next hour.

White House officials have also announced, and this is crucial, that the president will meet tomorrow with the Turkish President Erdogan on the sidelines of the summit. That's key because Turkey has been standing in the way of Sweden and Finland joining NATO. We'll see if the U.S. is able to move Turkey into the yes column on their accession (ph) to the alliance.

A top priority for today's agenda continues to be Russia's war on Ukraine. Earlier, the White House announced the U.S. is committing nearly $3 billion to address global food shortages due to Putin's invasion. Remember, Ukraine's a big producer of grain and corn. Concerns that could lead to famine in parts of the war - world, the war's disruption.

CNN's chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins joins me now.

Kaitlan, beyond the show of support, we've already heard those words even where you were at the G-7 summit, saying that the alliance is going to be with Ukraine as long as it takes. Those were Biden's words.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

SCIUTTO: What beyond that shows of support - and, by the way, that's important, showing that they are still together on this, but in terms of concrete steps do we expect from the summit here?

COLLINS: We expect, coming out of the NATO summit, that there will be new sanctions announced. You'll see President Biden make a statement on that. He is holding a press conference once he wraps up his official meetings, which really don't get started until tomorrow. He's meeting with the king and the president of Spain. He's got a big dinner tonight. His official meetings start tomorrow. And that's where they're going to get down to brass tacks of what they are going to do next with this, how they're going to respond to Putin because you see they come - they are coming off the heels of this G-7 summit where they've agreed to ban imports of Russian gold.

They're also trying to come to an agreement on putting a price cap on Russian oil so Putin can't make as much money.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

COLLINS: And so that is going to be the focus here. But also on whether or not they are going to reinforce their alliance, their -- the troops that they have here on the eastern flank of NATO. That, of course, is key because that has been what Biden has talked about all the time.

You see him walking down the stairs now of Air Force One.

SCIUTTO: There's the president now.

COLLINS: We'll see if he speaks to reporters. But that has been a big echo of this. President Biden has said what

President Putin wanted the least, which was to strengthen NATO, has happened as a result of his invasion of Ukraine. And so that's going to be the focus here of how they're military standing behind Ukraine, but also dealing with the reality of just how long this invasion has gone on and potentially how much longer it could go on because President Zelenskyy, of course, said in that virtual meeting that he wanted them to, of course, see this end by the end of the year.

SCIUTTO: And we're seeing those sanctions take effect. Russia defaulting on its debt for the first time in many decades there.

Again, the president has just arrived in Madrid for the start of this key NATO summit, meeting Spanish officials there, the king, the foreign minister. Also joining him there will be the U.S. Ambassador of the United States to the kingdom of Spain.

Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. We'll have you back in the coming days as we watch events here in Madrid.

Well, the U.N. Security Council as well, it's going to hold an emergency meeting today to discuss Russia's deadly missile strike in the last 24 hours on civilians at a crowded shopping mall in central Ukraine. At least 18 people were killed, 21 people are still missing. Many got out just in time when there were air raid signals.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is calling the attack, quote, one of the most defiant terrorist attacks in European history.

Here with me now to discuss again as we see President Biden arriving here in Madrid is the former NATO Deputy Secretary-General Rose Gottemoeller.

First, if we could begin - and thanks so much for joining us this morning.

On the significance of this strike, given the timing as western leaders meeting in Europe first with the G-7 in Germany and now here in Madrid, do you see that attack on a civilian target as a deliberate affront to the west, in the midst of those meetings?

ROE GOTTEMOELLER, FORMER DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL, NATO: Moscow is clearly showing that it wants the NATO leaders to sit up and take notice, that it is still a potent military force.

[09:20:05]

But this attack is savage and barbaric. It simply is clearly focused on a civilian target. Moscow has been claiming, oh, no, no, there was nobody in that mall at the time. We were hitting a weapons dump nearby. But this is, of course, absurd. It's really clear that they are doing the maximum to ensure that NATO and indeed the rest of the world is taking notice. I think it's good that the U.N. will be meeting today to discuss this matter and I hope -- I hope to condemn Russia. SCIUTTO: As we've been speaking there, there's the president getting

into his motorcade now. His first meeting on his agenda here in Madrid with the Spanish prime minister.

Putin believes, as I've been speaking to European officials, believes that he can wait out NATO. He can wait out the U.S. That he can continue to pummel Ukrainian forces in the east and bear the economic cost because he believes that over time Europe and the U.S. will suffer so much from rising energy prices, inflation, et cetera, this they will break. And I wonder if you believe Putin may have that right?

GOTTEMOELLER: Well, that has been the Soviets and now the Russian strategy forever, to try to divide NATO and to try to divide NATO from the Ukrainians in this case. But every step that Putin has taken, every step that the Kremlin has taken, has driven NATO together into a more coherent and unified alliance together now with the Ukrainians, supporting the Ukrainians in their fight against the Russians.

So, if the Russians continue to undertake these barbaric attacks, such as the one on the shopping mall, it will do everything to unify the alliance.

So, I think, yes, it is clear that Putin thinks he can wait out the NATO alliance, divide and conquer. But, on the other hand, they're behaving in a way that ensures coherence and unity.

SCIUTTO: That's right. I mean and we're seeing that here, the alliance, in fact, with every intention, if they can get over Turkish delays at this point, to expand, not shrink, to expand the alliance.

An interesting step here because in addition to sending more weapons to Ukraine, you also see the announcement now of NATO's own forces increasing the size of a force on high alert to 300,000. They've been sending more both troops and weapons to their eastern front here.

I wonder, what is the seriousness of the alliance's fears of a direct Russian attack in the future, the near future perhaps, on a NATO member, not just Ukraine?

GOTTEMOELLER: That's the whole message of this summit meeting is that NATO will be prepared to defend itself no matter what. I think, frankly, at the moment, Russia has its hands full in Ukraine. That's one of the reasons that Sweden and Finland feel confident joining NATO now, asking for NATO membership is that they believe the Russian armed forces are so spread out and focused on Ukraine that they cannot undertake further attacks. But it is definitely a threat for the future and that is what NATO is reiterating at this summit meeting that they will be ready to defend themselves no matter what happens in the future.

I want to emphasize that those 300,000 troops are therefore a reinforcement. They will not be permanently deployed forward in the NATO alliance, but will be available for reinforcement. And that is a big and important step.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and available on short notice. That's part of the message there, to respond quickly to any emerging threat.

Rose Gottemoeller, thanks so much for joining us this morning.

GOTTEMOELLER: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: And, Poppy, you see the level of concern there. Not just in Ukraine and among allies here at NATO, but among NATO about its own eastern flank.

HARLOW: Absolutely. It is great to have her on this morning.

Jim, we'll get back to you in just a second.

But, ahead, a horrific human tragedy in San Antonio. That is what the mayor of San Antonio, Texas, is calling this scene where at least 50 migrants were found dead inside a semitruck. We'll have a live report ahead.

We are also waiting for the opening bell on Wall Street this morning. Stock futures are higher. Looking to rebound from Monday's losses. Investors paying attention to signs of an economic deceleration in the U.S. Inflation continuing to run at multidecade highs.

Meanwhile, U.S. oil prices also rebounding after recent losses with crude today at more than $111 a barrel.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:29:33]

HARLOW: Welcome back.

The Department of Homeland Security this morning is leading an investigation into the deaths of 50 migrants found in a semitruck in San Antonio, Texas. Yesterday, a worker in a building nearby heard calls for help and found the victims and 16 survivors in that trailer.

Priscilla Alvarez is on the scene and joins us now.

You're, obviously, outside of the hospital where they're trying to save the lives of those 16. And I should note there are children. We don't know their ages, but children among those hospitalized.

[09:30:03]

Do we know anything about their condition and do authorities have any leads on who could be responsible?