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Trump Defended Rioters; Zelenskyy's Plea to Join NATO; Migrants Dead in Texas. Aired 9:30-10a ET
Aired June 29, 2022 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[09:34:06]
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back.
CNN is learning that Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony yesterday afternoon left several of former President Trump's aides and allies speechless. That includes one exchange that Hutchinson detailed between then White House Counsel Pat Cipollone and former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows about Trump's apparent approval of rioters chanting "hang Mike Pence."
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CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER AIDE TO WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF MARK MEADOWS: I remember Pat saying something to the effect of, Mark, we need to do something more. They're literally calling for the vice president to be f-ing hung. And Mark had responded something to the effect of, you heard him, Pat, he thinks Mike deserves it. He doesn't think they're doing anything wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Deserves it.
Joining me now, CNN political commentator S.E. Cupp and Olivia Troye, former Homeland Security and Covid Task Force adviser to Vice President Mike Pence.
So, Olivia, we have to start there.
[09:35:00]
What was it like for you, someone who worked loyally for Pence until you resigned the White House, to hear her testimony under oath that former President Trump approved of those chants, hang Mike Pence, and thought he deserved it?
OLIVIA TROYE, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY, COUNTERTERRORISM AND COVID TASK FORCE ADVISER TO MIKE PENCE: Yes, like I sat in the hearing yesterday, and to hear that, to hear that firsthand witness account, hearing that Pat Cipollone, who I worked with, and Cassidy, who I also worked with, discussed this and knowing that -- people in the White House knew that Mike Pence's life was in danger, and yet nothing was doing, and that Donald Trump was OK with that is just appalling. It's never going to get less shocking to me to hear that the president of the United States just sat there while his own vice president's life was in danger. That's never going to be normal to me, and it shouldn't be normal to any American out there.
HARLOW: Olivia, you worked, as I understand it, pretty closely with Cassidy Hutchinson on some key things, not just side by side, but on some key things for the administration. There are, it's important to note, some people who are disputing her testimony. Not just the former president, but the U.S. Secret Service, disputing what she testified happened in The Beast when the president so wanted to go to the Capitol.
Can you speak to her as a person, what the American people need to know about her, her credibility?
TROYE: Yes, look, Cassidy Hutchinson was a loyal staffer. She was very diligent in her work. I worked with her closely. Everyone who worked in the White House and worked in the West Wing know that she was a critical part of the operation. Like, I got closer to her during the Covid Task Force. I coordinated things with her. She's well familiar with the amount of work that went into evacuating cruise ships. I briefed her on that so that Mark Meadows would be aware. She was in the thick of it. And she's respected. She's a conservative Republican woman. And she's known in Republican circles on The Hill. So this is a known entity.
And, also, here's the thing, she has no reason to lie. The stories she told, they were so vivid in detail, and in accuracy, I mean, why would she have any reason to make that up? And so if they're saying that she lied, well, then Tony Ornato should come forward, under oath, take an oath, under, and testify then and explain to them why he told her that story then because she attributes it to him.
HARLOW: S.E., you've said yesterday was, in your words, quote, as bad as it gets. The question is who believes what. As I said earlier in the show, there is one truth, there just is, but when it comes to beyond any legal implications, the hearts and minds of a divided America, as a Republican, albeit not a Trump Republican, did yesterday move the needle significantly in your mind?
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, let me start by saying that Trump, obviously, we've known this for years and it was made clear yesterday, was not ever motivated by or led by an interest in democracy, the Constitution, even morality or ethics. He was mostly led by vengeance, which is why you got that quote about Mike Pence.
I think most of his fans like that about him. They don't mind ignoring the Constitution or his disregard for separation of powers and, you know, what democracy is supposed to do. They like the vengeance, the fact that he wanted to punish people, whether that was, you know, his quote/ unquote enemies in the press or Democrats or critics, really anyone that got in his way. They liked that about him.
So, I think, if you're already on team Trump, or you've at the very least decided none of that matters to you. I don't think you're moved by what we learned yesterday. But for the rest of us, I mean, that is literally as bad as it gets. That is a president who knew people were armed and told them to go march on the Capitol. I mean, it doesn't get much worse. In fact, it sounds like a movie. Like a bad one that you'd reject because it was so unbelievable and yet it was real.
HARLOW: So, let's just end on this, ladies, listening to this sound that I was really struck by yesterday at the end of the hearing from the chair, Chairman Bennie Thompson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): If you heard this testimony today, and suddenly you remember things you couldn't previously recall, or there is some details you'd like to clarify, or you discovered some courage you had hidden away somewhere, our doors remain open.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Olivia, having worked with a lot of the folks that they would like to hear from, I wonder if you think any of those folks from this White House, the Trump White House, will find that courage.
[09:40:00]
TROYE: Yes, I hope that they will. I mean if Cassidy stood up there by her -- on her own, by herself, and told the truth, and if she can do that, why can't others. They all lived this firsthand. We've all witnessed how dangerous Trump is. And, in this moment, I'm sitting in that room next to the law enforcement officers who were hurt that day. I can't tell you how heartbreaking and upsetting it was to watch their expressions as they heard that the president of the United States knew that they had weapons, he was inviting them in and that they were here for him and he was ready to lead the charge. They were disgusted and appalled. And my heart was just - it just sank.
And so I think that anyone who has facts and witnessed any of this should be coming forward. Why are you afraid to tell the truth? Just tell the truth. People need to be held accountable for what happened.
HARLOW: Olivia Troye, S.E., we're out of time, but thank, both, very, very much.
Still ahead, a desperate plea from Ukrainian President Zelenskyy as he calls for NATO to allow Ukraine into the alliance. We'll take you back live to Jim in Madrid as President Biden and world leaders attempt to alter the trajectory of the war.
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[09:45:46]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: New this morning, video of the very moment Ukrainian officials say that a Russian missile hit a shopping mall in Kremenchuk, Ukraine. There it is right there, that explosion, that was filled with civilians at the time. At least 18 people have been confirmed killed, dozens more still missing. They expect that death toll to rise.
CNN cannot independently verify exactly what the missile is hitting in this video. But we do have reporters on the scene. You can see there is not much left of that mall. It was an enormous strike.
President Zelenskyy, who released that surveillance video earlier today, says it is proof that Russia has now become a terrorist state, in his words. He is once again asking for Ukraine to be admitted to NATO.
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PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINE (through translator): NATO's open door policy should remind us of the mechanism of the old key (ph) metro (ph) barriers, they are open. But as soon as you approach them, they are shut until you pay. Has Ukraine not paid enough? Is our contribution to the defense of Europe and the entire civilization not enough?
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SCIUTTO: Has Ukraine not paid enough, he says.
CNN chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward joins me now.
Clarissa, this is a significant NATO summit. The list of deliverables so far, you have Sweden and Finland joining NATO over Turkish opposition, far from guaranteed before this came.
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE).
SCIUTTO: You have enormous growth of force deployments on the eastern flank, but you also have greater commitments to defense budgets by NATO allies. This is not what Putin wanted or I think expected.
WARD: Well, and that's why you heard President Biden saying that Putin had wanted the Finlandization of Europe and what he's getting is the NATO-ization of Europe.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
WARD: I mean Finland and Russia share an 800 - so, this is a big deal. This is very significant.
We know that President Putin wanted to rewrite the existing post-Cold War security agreement here in Europe. And he has effectively done that. But certainly not in the ways in which he had expected to do it.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
WARD: The real challenge, though, still remains, going forward, how long can NATO allies really continue this tough posture, because many of the leaders who are here, President Macron, Prime Minister Boris Johnson, President Joe Biden as well, are also facing serious political challenges at home. And that is what President Putin, I think, is counting on. SCIUTTO: Yes.
And, listen, I think folks forget, because it's hard to pay attention all the time, but the battlefield in the eastern Ukraine is increasingly deadly for the Russians but for the Ukrainians. The economic cost we've been talking about for the western allies are rising. Putin's hope is that he can last longer than the west, in effect.
WARD: He is banking on the fact that Russia has a very high pain threshold. They are feeling the pinch. They are feeling the bite. But they are not going to be the ones, if you ask them and talk to them, to cry on uncle first. They are counting on the fact that liberal democracies, by virtue of the fact that they answer to their voters and their constituents, will be forced to make some kind of compromises or concessions first.
SCIUTTO: Yes. And as you noted last hour, they -- these leaders have the problem of democracy, right? They have to answer to voters. Putin does not.
Clarissa Ward, thanks so much.
WARD: Thanks.
SCIUTTO: Poppy, back to you.
HARLOW: Thank you, both, Clarissa and Jim.
Meantime, a human smuggling plot turns deadly in Texas. Fifty-one migrants lost their lives. There are two people now this morning charged in connection with their deaths. We'll take you there for a live report.
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[09:53:39]
HARLOW: Fifty-one migrants, 39 men, 12 women are now dead after being abandoned in a sweltering hot tractor trailer in San Antonio. Officials confirm the victims were from Mexico, Guatemala and Honduras. And a U.S. Homeland Security agent is calling their deaths, quote, the worst human smuggling event in the United States.
Our Rosa Flores joins us live from Texas with the latest.
I know there were four kids also struggling to hold on to their lives after all of this. But this morning two arrests have been made. Is that right?
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Poppy, you're absolutely right. This is according to charging documents which show that federal agents were able to trace the registration plate of that semi. They found the registered address, went to that location and arrested two individuals and charged them with possession of a weapon by an undocumented person, which carries up to 10 years in prison. Now, we're learning more as well about the scene from the U.S.
attorney of the western district of Texas. She issued a statement in which it says that the victims here were found dead or incapacitated in and around this tractor trailer. So not just inside the trailer, but also around it.
HSI, Homeland Security Investigation, is leading this criminal investigation. I spoke to the special agent in charge. And he described this as the worst human smuggling event in the United States.
[09:55:04]
The death toll has increased to 51. According to officials here, there are 39 men and 12 women. The ages are still being determined. But, Poppy, from talking to this official, he says that there are indications that among some of the victims who have died, there could be children under the age of 18.
Poppy.
HARLOW: Oh, my gosh, what a tragedy.
Rosa, we appreciate the update.
Still ahead, former President Trump's behavior, actions on January 6th, all testified to by one of the former White House top aides. Yesterday, huge revelations from Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony, next.
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[10:00:01]
SCIUTTO: A good Wednesday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto, reporting from the NATO summit in Madrid in Spain.
HARLOW: And I'm Poppy Harlow in New York.
