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Zelenskyy Calls Russia A Terrorist State; NATO Leaders To Vote On Finland And Sweden Bids; Bombshell Testimony At January 6th Hearing; Drones, A Key Tool for Turkish Foreign Policy; Ghislaine Maxwell Sentenced; Anticipated Verdict on 2015 Paris Terrorist Attacks. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired June 29, 2022 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[02:00:27]

LYNDA KINKADE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, and welcome to viewers joining us from around the world. I'm Linda Kinkade and this is CNN NEWSROOM. Coming up. President Zelenskyy is urging the U.N. to remove Russia from the security council, calling it a terrorist state.

Well, leaders arrive in Madrid for the start of the NATO Summit as Finland and Sweden get a key approval to join the alliance.

And a bombshell testimony. The January 6 hearing what a former White House aide revealed about Donald Trump's involvement in the insurrection.

ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Center. This is CNN NEWSROOM with Linda Kinkade.

KINKADE: We'll begin with dramatic video and new details about that deadly Russian strike on a mall in Ukraine. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says these images show the modern moment when a Russian missile hit the shopping center, killing at least 18 civilians. CNN cannot independently verify exactly what the missile is hitting in that video. Other surveillance cameras in a nearby park capture the missile exploding Monday afternoon.

Russia claims that hit a factory storing weapons and ammunition. Ukraine's president says the deliberate attack on civilians proves Russia is a terrorist state and should be permanently banned from the United Nations Security Council.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Unfortunately, as of now, the United Nations does not have a legal definition of the term terrorist state agreed by all U.N. members. But this war that Russia is waging against Ukraine demonstrates not only the meaning of this concept, but all the urgent necessity to enshrine it legally at the level of the United Nations and punish any terrorist state. (END VIDEO CLIP)

KINKADE: When NATO leaders are gathering for a critical summit in Madrid, one that will likely determine what happens next for Ukraine and redefine European security for years to come. The meeting comes as NATO appears set for an historic expansion. In Tuesday, Turkey dropped its objections to both Finland and Sweden's NATO bids clearing the way for membership. It's a major blow for Russian President Vladimir Putin who used the possibility of NATO expansion to justify his war in Ukraine.

In Madrid, NATO allies are expected to declare Russia the most significant threat to their security. They also plan to bolster their defenses in the east closest to Russia. For more than 300,000 troops, we put on high alert, a seven-fold increase from current levels. Well, CNN is covering his story from every angle. Atika Shubert is standing by in Turkey. But I want to start with Kevin Liptak who joins us live from Madrid.

Good to have you both with us. So, Kevin, U.S. President Biden, over many months work to ensure that Sweden and Finland could and should join NATO. What helped push that deal over the line?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, Lynda, it's not exactly clear at this point, what concessions were made by Finland and Sweden to get this deal done. But there was a very important phone call yesterday morning between President Biden and President Erdogan of Turkey, where the two men discussed Turkey's objections to these countries joining NATO. And President Biden essentially told his Turkish counterpart that if this deal could be struck by the time this summit got underway, that it would be possible for the two men to meet formally bilaterally on the sidelines of this summit.

And they will do that later on today. So, President Biden really kind of nudging this along throughout this process. He did try and keep the United States out of these talks directly. He wanted to keep them between those two countries and Turkey to resolve the differences themselves. But when the idea came down to the wire, the president did sign off on the agreement that the leader struck.

And of course, this will put wind at the back of NATO leaders as they start gathering here in Madrid today. One of the things they're really focused on is bolstering NATO's force posture along the eastern flank, announcing hundreds of thousands of new force ready troops, really the most robust strengthening of NATO's force posture since the Cold War. And yesterday, the President Biden announced that he would send two additional destroyers to the Rota Air Base or Naval Station rather here in Spain really trying to up the United States' maritime presence in the region.

[02:05:03]

LIPTAK: He is expected to make a number of other announcements later today about increasing the United States' forced posture in Europe. Listen to a little bit of what he said yesterday about these NATO talks. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And today, NATO is united and as united and galvanized as I believe it's ever been. And we are ready to face threats of Russian aggression. Because quite frankly, there's no choice. It's been the most significant abuse of power since World War II.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIPTAK: So President Biden clearly trying to shore up allies as this war in Ukraine grinds on. Western nations have poured billions of dollars in aid and security insistence. Ukraine piled tons of sanctions on Russia but the momentum right now is still in Russia's favor. So, clearly leaders trying to turn that around this week here in Madrid, Lynda.

KINKADE: Exactly. A very busy day ahead for you there in Madrid. Kevin Liptak, thanks to you. Well, I want to bring Atika Schubert who joins us from Istanbul. And Atika, Turkey's president said repeatedly that he would not support Sweden and Finland's bid to join NATO, claiming that they were harboring terrorists. What changed his stance?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think certainly the U.S. did play a part in that as you heard from Kevin there, nudging Turkish President Recep Erdogan forward on this. Previously, it did seem as though Turkey wasn't in any rush to reach a deal. But clearly, this is a big win diplomatically, not just for Turkey, but also Sweden and Finland. Now they are cleared to enter NATO.

But in particular, it's a win for NATO. And it was the NATO Secretary General that announced this agreement. Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: And I'm pleased to announce that we now have an agreement that paves the way for Finland and Sweden to join NATO. Turkey, Finland and Sweden have signed a memorandum that addresses Turkey's concerns, including around arms exports and fight against terrorism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHUBERT: Now essentially, what Finland and Sweden have promised is to address Turkey security concerns, particularly as it deals with Kurdish independence groups that Turkey sees as terrorist groups. So for example, Sweden and Finland have both agreed that it would not support the Kurdish People's Protection Units or the YPG, and that they would recognize the Kurdish Workers Party a political party as a proscribed terrorist organization.

And this really brings Sweden and Finland in line with how Turkey sees these groups, but also the U.S. in the E.U. which he sees the terror -- sees the PKK as a terrorist group as well. So, these are just some of the security trends. One of the issues as well was that an arms -- there will be no arms embargo between the country and an intelligence gathering framework will be formed. So there's a lot going on there.

And I should point out the diplomatic language is just vague enough to allow for different interpretations by each of the countries.

KINKADE: (INAUDIBLE) Atika Shubert as always, our thanks to you there in Istanbul.

Well, in the hastily schedule, six public hearing held by the January 6 Committee, a top aide in the Trump White House revealed stunning details of the former president's actions that day. Cassidy Hutchinson testified that Donald Trump and his inner circle were well aware of the potential for violence on January 6th. CNN's Pamela Brown has more from Washington.

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CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER TOP AIDE TO PRESIDENT DONALD'S TRUMP'S WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF MARK MEADOWS: As an American, I was disgusted.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Bombshell testimony from surprise witness Cassidy Hutchinson, a former top aide to White House Chief of Staff, Mark Meadows.

HUTCHINSON: That evening was the first moment that I remember feeling scared and nervous for what could happen on January 6th.

BROWN: Hutchinson telling the committee White House officials knew something big was brewing for January 6th. Testifying that four days prior, Trump's former attorney Rudy Giuliani told her Trump himself plan to go to the Capitol on the 6th.

HUTCHINSON: We're going to the Capitol. It's going to be great. The president's going to be there. He's going to look powerful.

BROWN: And when she approached Meadows for more details, she says Meadows gave an ominous response.

HUTCHINSON: He didn't look up from his phone and said something to the effect of, there's a lot going on, Cass, but I don't know, things might get real, real bad on January 6th.

[02:10:05]

BROWN: After things did get real bad at the Capitol. According to Hutchinson, lead White House Counsel Pat Cipollone pleaded with Meadows to get Trump to do something just stop it saying.

HUTCHINSON: Mark, something needs to be done or people are going to die and the blood is going to be on your effing hands. This is getting out of control.

BROWN: And even when the rioters began to chant.

RIOTERS: Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence!

BROWN: Meadows told Cipollone Trump believed Pence deserves it.

HUTCHINSON: And Mark had responded something to the effect of, you heard him, Pat. He thinks Mike deserves it. He doesn't think they're doing anything wrong.

BROWN: Hutchinson said on January 7, Meadows encouraged Trump to condemn the rioters to salvage his legacy.

HUTCHINSON: There's already talks about invoking the 25th Amendment. You need this as cover.

BROWN: And Hutchinson describes seeing Trump express rage various times over stories regarding his 2020 election loss. One such time after his former attorney general told The Associated Press he had not seen widespread fraud that would change the election.

HUTCHINSON: There is catsup dripping down the wall. And there's a shattered porcelain plate on the floor. The valet had articulated that the president was extremely angry at the attorney general's A.P. interview and had thrown his lunch against the wall.

BROWN: A former Trump loyalist, Hutchinson testified that watching the violence and destruction unfold on January 6 was devastating.

HUTCHINSON: It was unpatriotic. It was unAmerican. We are watching the Capitol Building get defaced over a lie. It's something that it's still -- I still struggled to work through the emotions of that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Another revelation coming out from Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony is that Mark Meadows, her former boss and Trump's former attorney Rudy Giuliani sought presidential pardons relating to January 6. Now we do want to note the Secret Service released a statement in the wake of the allegations that the former president lunged at the wheel in the presidential motorcade because he wanted to go to the Capitol.

Now, in response to that the Secret Service says that it has been cooperating with the select committee since its inception and spring 2021 and will continue to do so including by responding on the record to the committee regarding the new allegations surfaced and today's testimony. Pamela Brown, CNN, Capitol Hill.

KINKADE: Joining me now from Los Angeles is CNN senior political analyst Ron Brownstein. He's also a senior editor at The Atlantic.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi, Lynda.

KINKADE: So this was a really damning testimony. An aide to the White House Chief of Staff describing a president seemingly willing to cross any line to remain in power. And when a Secret Service agent said he was not going to take the president to the Capitol. This ex-aide said the president lashed out. What was your assessment of today's testimony? BROWNSTEIN: It was extraordinary day. I mean, I thought the testimony from the Justice Department officials last week was possibly the most dramatic day of a congressional hearing in American history since John Dean's testimony in the Watergate Committee in 1973. And this was more explosive than that. You know, I thought the two most damning and significant revelations were one that Trump was clearly told that the crowd included people who were armed with a variety of weapons.

And his reaction was both to try to take down the magnetometers that screen people and still to send them toward the Capitol fully aware that they -- that there were people in the crowd who were armed. And the other, of course, was just the incredible detailed revelations that were as bad -- maybe worse than it looked from the outside. The Trump was clearly informed during the day about the violence at the Capitol and indicated through his chief of staff that he didn't want to do anything about it.

That he didn't think the rioters were doing anything wrong, and that maybe Mike Pence deserved what they were chanting hang Mike Pence.

KINKADE: Bob Woodward who famously investigated President Nixon and in recent years interviewed Trump for a book. So that this January 6 investigation and what happened today has written Trump's political obituary. Has it really? If he's paying no attention to this, which is what some of his supporters have told CNN if they're not watching this, will this really end his political career?

BROWNSTEIN: So obviously, we don't know. But I felt even at the time on January 6 that the events of that day would make it much more difficult for Trump ever to be elected president again. Not that it was going to crater his support. Not that it was going to preclude him from becoming potentially the Republican presidential nominee again. But just the events of that day I think would cause at least some slice of the electorate that voted for him in 2016 and 2020 to consider whether they wanted to entrust him again with the awesome powers of the presidency.

[02:15:17]

BROWNSTEIN: I think the revelations of this committee has deepened that, you know, I think there are going to be voters out there who -- whatever they think about his policies are going to look at all of this and say, is this a risk we really want to take again? And of course, as I say, that did not preclude him becoming the Republican presidential nominee again. But there's another as you know, big uncertainty in all of this.

X factor in all of this, which is that will he be indicted between now and the time of the next Republican presidential primaries?

KINKADE: Yes. And I want to get to that, but I do want to ask you whether the Republican Party itself will say enough is enough. And whether this will make it easier for Republican presidential hopefuls to challenge Trump. Should he try to run again?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, it is -- it is striking how few Republicans have validated the importance of these hearings. It's a -- it's an enormous contrast with Watergate, where you had elected Republicans at every stage of the process, saying, yes, this is significant. Yes, the revelations are important. Ultimately, of course, it was Republican leaders who convinced Nixon that he had to resign. We're not seeing that.

So those Republicans in the party who do want to see it steer away from Donald Trump, they are choosing to remain silent to allow the loudest voices in the party to be those who are condemning or trying to, you know, discredit the hearings, like the hosts on Fox. But having said all that, I do think that among the people who fund campaigns, among political leadership in the States, there are going to be more people who feel that Donald Trump is too tarnished, after all of this to win the presidency again, along the lines that I was discussing a minute ago.

And that will provide, I think, more support for other candidates. Having said that, he still has a lot of support in the party. And it's going to be challenging for anyone to deny him the nomination, not impossible, but challenging.

KINKADE: Just quickly, Ron, we've discussed how difficult it could be to prosecute a former president. But certainly, it seems the case against Trump is getting stronger.

BROWNSTEIN: Look, the committee said at the beginning that they were going to lay out a case that Donald Trump not only violated his oath of office in the broad sense, that he did things that were improper, but he did things that were illegal. And they have done that through testimony that has been almost exclusively if not completely, exclusively, from other Republicans.

And it focused very heavily on his state of mind that he was being told that his, you know, his statements that the election was stolen were wrong, that there was no basis for his claims of fraud. And that also that the course that he was pursuing and that he was demanding of others, like the vice president was illegal. Now, I'm not a lawyer. But both of those seem to be critical thresholds and establishing criminal intent and obviously increasing the pressure on the Justice Department to seriously consider this momentous step of potentially charging a former president.

KINKADE: CNN senior political analyst, Ron Brownstein. Thanks very much.

BROWNSTEIN: Thanks for having me.

KINKADE: Well, still to come. Police make new arrests and the case of dozens of migrants who were found dead in a truck in Texas. I'll speak with an immigration attorney about the desperate attempts to cross the U.S. border.

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[02:20:39]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NELSON WOLFF, BEXAR COUNTY, TEXAS JUDGE: Today we mourn for those 51 immigrants who came to us to grieve that fresh air, but instead found death in the state of Texas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KINKADE: A local judge and former mayor of San Antonio, Texas there speaking on behalf of those grieving the deaths of dozens of migrants. 51 people are now dead after being found in sweltering conditions in a semi-trailer on Monday. The investigation continues to find out what happened to Mexican nationals who authorities say were in the U.S. illegally had been arrested on firearms charges in the case.

Though they have not been directly linked to the migrants deaths. San Antonio's mare spoke to CNN about the tragedy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON NIRENBERG, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS MAYOR: This is probably the worst tragedy in terms of migrant -- migration that I know in recent history and the people that are responsible for subjecting other people to these conditions should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KINKADE: A house representative from Texas says the semi-truck passed through a checkpoint on the U.S. border in New Mexico near the city of Laredo. He is one of many who suspected this was a result of human trafficking. He says, "We talk about people coming in, but we also need to focus on the smugglers. These people are making a lot of money and killing people on the way up here."

Joining me now from Corpus Christi, Texas is Natalia Trotter. An immigration attorney for Raices. A nonprofit organization that provides legal services to immigrants and refugees. Thanks for joining us.

NATALIA TROTTER, IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY, RAICES: Thank you so much for having me.

KINKADE: So, this is a horrific story. 48 dead at the scene. Three pronounced dead at hospital. 16 others are being treated in hospital, including four children. And what's so shocking is police said there was no water inside the truck and no air conditioning. What do you make of that when you heard the details?

TROTTER: Yes. So we're deeply saddened by this tragic and horrific situation. We've -- so sad for the families of the victims. And for the victims who are in the hospital right now. We wish them a speedy recovery. And this is just a tragic demonstration of how our immigration system in the U.S. has failed and how our immigration system has, has created a situation where people are forced into these desperate situations in order to try to enter the U.S. seeking protection. So we're deeply saddened and we're frustrated that this in -- our immigration system has created this tragic situation.

KINKADE: The Mexican's consulate in Texas is fielding plenty of calls from families in Mexico, of reporting people missing. Officials also believe that some inside the truck were from Guatemala or in Honduras. Two people nearby with firearms have been arrested and charged in relation to this. This is potentially a big smuggling ring, right?

TROTTER: Yes, it could be. I mean, we see a lot of smuggling rings that take advantage of people who are in vulnerable situations, who are operated across the border or operate throughout Mexico and take advantage of people who are -- who are arriving at the U.S. border and who are in extremely in situations of desperation and vulnerability and exploit their needs for protection.

And so we've seen this happen and unfortunately, this is at a huge tragic level but this is a situation that happens frequently at the border where these rings take advantage of people and being.

KINKADE: A Texas congressman says that this particular semi-truck went through a checkpoint near Laredo, and the drive from that city to San Antonio where the truck was found is just 2-1/2 hours. Do you know what happens at these checkpoints? The truck doors opened and inspected.

TROTTER: It depends. Sometimes they are, sometimes they way through. It's kind of an inconsistent process at this point. So sometimes people are stopped and their papers are reviewed and for these trucks sometimes the trucks are open and CVP will review but oftentimes their ways through. So unfortunately in this situation these migrants weren't provided the necessary water and things that they should have at a -- at an earlier point.

[02:25:08]

KINKADE: We know that at least 650 people died trying to cross the U.S.-Mexico border last year. That's according to the International Organization for Migration. That's the most of any years since they began documenting deaths back in 2014. Natalia, why have we seen such a high death rate as migrants simply try to seek a better life?

TROTTER: Absolutely. So I think, unfortunately, the implementation of title 42 which is -- where migrants arrived at the U.S.-border seeking asylum under U.S. and international law, and then they returned to Mexico and forced to wait in Mexico. This policy was implemented under the Trump administration and then has continued under the Biden administration. And this policy, unfortunately, places people in extreme risk at the U.S.-Mexico border where they're at risk of trafficking, kidnapping assaults.

And so they're often forced with a very difficult decision of whether to stay in Mexico and stay in these situations of vulnerability or to try to cross. And so this has put people in a situation where they've had to go to very big lanes in order to cross the U.S. border and trying to seek the protection that they need. So these programs that have been implemented title 42 and The Remain In Mexico program have been hugely influential in creating these situations of danger for migrants arriving at the border.

KINKADE: Yes. Clearly, these policies need to be reviewed urgently. Natalia Trotter, immigration Attorney. We appreciate your time. Thanks very much.

TROTTER: Thank you so much.

KINKADE: Well, still to come. Turkeys drones have played a critical role in Ukraine's fight against Russia. Well, now they're back in focus as leaders meet at the NATO summit. We'll explain why.

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KINKADE: Welcome back. NATO leaders have started arriving for critical summit in Madrid where Russia's war in Ukraine is expected to dominate the agenda. And it comes as NATO appears poised for a significant expansion. On Tuesday, Turkey reached to deal with Finland and Sweden about a security concerns and agreed to drop its objections to their membership bids. And that clears the path for both Nordic countries to join the alliance.

Well, joining me is CNN's Nina dos Santos standing by in the capital of Lithuania. Nina, great to see you. So, this is certainly an incredible move given that Turkey had resisted and actually repeatedly said it would not support the bids of both Sweden and Finland to join NATO. Why did Turkey change its stance?

[02:30:06]

NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN NEWS ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Well, extensively, the Turkish President, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, made this move right at the last minute to change his stance on Sweden and Finland's membership is because they received a memorandum of understanding, concrete written promises that these two Nordic nations would address two things.

One, their security concerns that Turkey had repeatedly raised. They'd alleged that there were sympathies for Kurtis-separatists that threatened Turkish's national security inside of countries like Sweden, but also to a lesser extent Finland. But the thornier issue was also that of arms embargos, where there is actually money at stake here.

Now, this is being seen as a big win. Getting Sweden and Finland to drop their objections to some Turkish weaponry that they've had, particularly Sweden led the call fallback in 2019. And that is crucial for a country like Turkey that has been building up its own big domestic weapons industry, focusing on one particular type of technology.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOS SANTOS (voiceover): The Bayraktar TB2, Turkey's most effective drone and one of its president's most assertive foreign policy tools. With NATO members meeting in Spain, Turkey's leader, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, is lobbying hard to lift embargoes on Ankara's weaponry. Just as he held out against Sweden and Finland joining the block until obtaining security guarantees at the 11th hour.

Finland had previously hinted that it would potentially buy Turkish drones if admitted to the alliance, while the UK might be the next to acquire them according to Turkey's industry minister. It's moves like these that have a revamp the image of Turkish drones. Once subject to embargoes due to their use in contentious conflicts, including in Africa.

ULRIKE FRANKE, DRONE ANALYST: The image of drones, in general, has changed over time. There really have been these waves of moment where -- moments where drones were seen as being negative and evil. And now indeed in Ukraine, they're seen as a really important system to be used by Ukraine against the Russian invasion.

DOS SANTOS (voiceover): Turkey's drones have become such a cult military item that they've inspired this pop song filmed on the battlefield of Ukraine.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

The Turkish economy may be stuck in the doldrums, but sales of drones have soared since the war in Ukraine started. Meaning, a boom for the drones' maker Baykar, co-owned by Erdogan's son-in-law, which last year posted record profits. But will Turkeys diplomacy, as it's being called, work?

FRANKE: One of the reasons why Turkey has started its drone program was indeed that it couldn't buy armed drones and other drones from, especially the United States, because the United States didn't want to export them. And then on the back of it, they'd realized, well, I can also export these systems to countries that may also not get American or Israeli or, indeed now, Chinese systems.

DOS SANTOS (voiceover): With the second largest army in NATO, Turkey is an unlikely country to be focusing so heavily on unmanned combat. But with drones like these for sale, one of Turkey's priorities at NATO is putting more of them on the market.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOS SANTOS (on camera): So, as you heard there, Lynda, these are cheap and very effective weapons that are growing in popularity. And they don't just have to be bought by governments. Remember that defense spending and who you procure your weapons from is also a big backdrop to these NATO negotiations when leaders meet. It's highly political, if you like.

There is a Lithuanian aspect to this story as well. It's also the fact that Lithuanian civilians recently crowd sourced to buy their own Bayraktar drone from Turkey, raising several million dollars to do that to donate to Ukraine. The maker of these Bayraktar drones, Baykar, got wind of that and actually donated the drone itself. Again, another one of these PR winds for the big Turkish drone sector. And then they said, well, Lithuanians, if you like, instead spend the money on other types of help for Ukraine. This is a big foreign policy push by Turkey. It's also super strategic and it's come up at lightning speed. Lynda.

KINKADE: Yes, it certainly has. Nina dos Santos, some great reporting there. Thanks so much.

Ukraine's First Lady tells CNN that it's been very difficult to hold on through five months of war, and people can't see an end to the suffering. Olena Zelenska spoke to our Christiane Amanpour in an international TV exclusive. She says many Ukrainians thought the war would be a sprint, but now they realize it's more likely to be a marathon. And she talked about how it affected her family, as well as people across her country.

[02:35:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: First Lady Olena Zelenska, welcome to our program.

OLENA ZELENSKA, UKRAINIAN FIRST LADY (through translator): Hello, Christiane. And thank you for inviting me to do this interview.

AMANPOUR: Well, I'm really happy to talk to you. But obviously it comes at a sad moment for you, for your country, and a moment where, yet again, everybody realizes that anybody can be a target. After that missile attack on the mall, Kremenchuk, you know, nearly 20 people dead. What is your reaction to that? How ordinary people reacting to that?

ZELENSKA (through translator): Well, Of course, we cannot react in any other way than be shocked. This is indeed terrorism. We cannot call this any other name. Yesterday in Kremenchuk, more than 1,000 people were in the shopping mall. This is an ordinary shopping mall, there were children and adults there, and you've just said how many people died. We still don't know their final number. We are all shocked. And unfortunately, we are shocked yet again in this war. We were shocked many times. I don't know what else the occupiers can shock us with.

AMANPOUR: So, let me ask you, it is now into the fifth month of this war. Your husband, the President, told the G7 leaders that this war had to be ended by the end of this year. Can I ask you about morale? Your morale, your children's morale, the peoples' morale. Because everybody's been so impressed by the heroic resistance that Ukraine has mounted. But what is the morale five months in now?

ZELENSKA (through translator): You know, in the first week and months, we were like sprinters. We were doing a short run at high speed. We gave it 200 percent. But now, everybody now is running a marathon. We need to calculate our strength. We need to hold on, as you said, it's very difficult to hold on for five months. We cannot see physically or mentally, we cannot see the end of our suffering. So, we need to accumulate our strength. We need to save our energy. And all Ukrainians must do it. It's very difficult for all of us. And we need -- we are trying to find joy in simple things. Maybe stroke a cat or do something simple. But we all looking -- we all look forward for this war to end.

AMANPOUR: That's really poignant, what you say, try to do simple and beautiful things. How do you specifically feel about your safety? We know you told us, when we last talked over e-mail in April, that at the beginning of the war it happened. You barely were able to say goodbye to your husband. He sent you and the kids somewhere else in Ukraine to be safe. Now, I understand you can come back to Kyiv more often, more regularly. How do you specifically feel about yours and your family's safety?

ZELENSKA (through translator): Yes, fortunately, those two months when I didn't see my husband at all, that's in the past. I can see him sometimes in -- for a short time, and not very often but I can physically feel him next to me. This isn't normal. It's not a normal relationship when children cannot see their father and have to talk to him on the phone. So, our relationship is on pause, just as it is for many -- well, all Ukrainians.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KINKADE: Well, you can watch more of Christiane Amanpour's interview with the first lady of Ukraine anytime on cnn.com.

Well, there's still much more to come here on CNN Newsroom, including details of the two-decade prison sentence given to Jeffrey Epstein's former girlfriend Ghislaine Maxwell.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:40:00]

Welcome back. A verdict is expected in the coming hours in the trial of suspects in a 2015 terror attack in Paris. 130 people were killed by Islamist gunman during the attack at the Bataclan Musical, the (INAUDIBLE) of Stade de France sports stadium, and several other establishments in the French capital. The trial has gone on for nearly 10 months. One survivor from that night says, he's glad this 10-month- long trial is now coming to an end.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARTHUR DENOUVEAUX, BATACLAN ATTACK SURVIVOR: It's a relief -- it's mostly a relief. Both because it means that justice, you know, has made what it had to do but, also, because it means that this trial is behind me and I can go on with my life. So, you know, it's been a long 10 months but I think that we can be proud of what we've achieved. So, I'm just happy it's coming to an end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KINKADE: Well, the 2015 attack was the deadliest ever seen in France during peace time.

The longtime confidant of disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein was sentenced to 20 years in prison, Tuesday. Ghislaine Maxwell has been convicted late last year on five charges, including sex trafficking of a minor. CNN Correspondent Jean Casarez has more.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Maxwell was wearing a navy-blue prison jumpsuit. She was shackled at her ankles. And Judge Alison Nathan, in delivering the sentence, said that a significant sentence was necessary. She said that in the submissions by the defense that there was nothing about acceptance of responsibility. And she said that it was for her role, Maxwell's role, for what she was being sentenced, not for Jeffrey Epstein's conduct.

The judge proceeded with the sentence but before that, and we didn't know it was going to happen, but Maxwell, herself, stood up to given an allocution to the court. She's told the judge, but was actually speaking to the victims, that she was sorry for the pain you have experienced. I hope the conviction brings you closer. I had hoped that this day would bring a terrible chapter to its end. May this day help you travel from the darkness into the light.

She also said, it was difficult to address the court after hearing the emotion from the victims. And there were four victims of Maxwell that stood and gave in court victim impact statements. They read them, they would turn to Maxwell, they were emotional. Here is one, "I frequently express flashbacks and wake up in a cold sweat from nightmares retelling the awful experience. To this day, I attend meetings to treat alcoholism but I have had numerous relapses and know that only by the grace of God I continue to live. I have attempted suicide twice."

Now, the judge is recommending to the Bureau of Prisons that she go to Danbury, Connecticut. They make the final decision. But it is 20 years with five years after that of supervised release. Jean Casarez, CNN, New York.

KINKADE: And thanks so much for joining us. I'm Lynda Kinkade. World Sport is up next. And I'll back with much more news from around the world at the top of the hour. You're watching CNN.

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LEMON: OK. So, there was stunning testimony today from Cassidy Hutchinson who was an aide to then-White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows. But is there evidence? Is there evidence of criminal liability? That's the question. Let's talk about it. Elie Honig is here. Alice Stewart and David Axelrod, all back with me.

Elie, so we talked about White House Counsel Pat Cipollone telling Cassidy Hutchinson that, if anyone helped Trump get to the Capitol, they would be charged with every crime imaginable. Trump did not go to the Capitol and you know what happened in the car or what have you, that they wouldn't get him there, and well, that's to be determined. She's saying, you know, lunged all that stuff. Lunged for the guy, take me, I'm the effing president, or whatever. But based on today's testimony, do you think that the Trump White House has any criminal liability over what happened on January 6th?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I agree with Pat Cipollone. I mean, he basically said, we're in the midst of a crime spree here. And I think we crossed two important thresholds today. One is the violence threshold.

LEMON: Right.

HONIG: The direct link Donald Trump knowing that that crowd was armed. And the other is intent. Remember early on when the big question, the big point of dispute was, gee, did Donald Trump know what that crowd was going to do? Did he want them to remain peaceful or did he want -- want them to go into that Capitol angry? I mean, is there really any question about that anymore?

And so, Pat Cipollone actually nailed the crimes that I'm looking at. Conspiracy to defraud the United States, attempt to obstruct the proceedings in Congress, and I would argue, even now, that you have the force element. That's what makes seditious conspiracy. So, I think this was a game changing day.

LEMON: The question is, what would -- what is DOJ or if they're going to do anything?

HONIG: No -- and the big question I have is, has DOJ interviewed Cassidy Hutchinson? We don't know the answer to that. Jamie Raskin was asked that earlier on our air and he said he doesn't know. But if DOJ has not interviewed her yet, shame on them and they ought to do it as soon as possible.

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: When -- of course, you're the legal expert here. But the final cliffhanger of the testimony today, Liz Cheney putting out there the potential for witness tampering.

HONIG: Yes.

STEWART: Reading texts --

LEMON: Yes.

STEWART: -- and messages from people that say, hey, we know you are a team player. We know that you know that the former president reads all the testimony. So, there potentially could be claims for witness tampering if that proves to be true.

LEMON: Do you, guys, want to hear it? Let's hear it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LIZ CHENEY, (R-WY) VICE-CHAIR, JANUARY 6 SELECT COMMITTEE: This is a call received by one of our witnesses, "A person let me know you have your deposition tomorrow. He wants me to let you know he's thinking about you. He knows you're loyal. And you're going to do the right thing when you go in for your deposition."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Tampering or -- and -- to me, that's definitely influencing, for me.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, all I can think of when I heard that was that scene in "The Godfather", where the guy was the government witness --

LEMON: Yes.

AXELROD: -- and they got to him. And he shows up at the -- I guess it was a Senate hearing. It's a Senate hearing. And, you know, completely denies everything that he had said. Previously -- I mean, it was --

LEMON: I think that's what they were hoping for.

AXELROD: -- it was really, really gangster-ish. What -- I mean, it's the only way you can refer to it. I want to make a point about the whole -- the flap about whether he lunged at the secret service guy in the limo. No one disputed -- it's interesting, nobody disputes that he angrily wanted to be taken to the Capitol.

The real issue is, I mean, that was a dramatic flourish and it'll -- we'll know -- we'll find out what the facts were as best we can. But no one is disputing the fact that he wanted to go down there with the mob to the Capitol and be part of what was going on down there.

STEWART: But just -- in that --

LEMON: What is the -- but then, what is the take away here for the supporters and allies of the president? Even conservative media today, they were like, wow, that -- that's a lot.

STEWART: Yes, that's the shocking part is they actually acknowledged that for the first time. Look, I have spoken with several members -- Republicans members of the House and Senate today. They still look at this as a witch hunt from the Democrats. They look at this, they've called this -- several of them had called this a kangaroo court. They call it a political prosecution. They say that Liz Cheney should be the last person asking questions, and they wish that there was a Trump ally on this Committee to, what they say, put a lot of this evidence into context. But at the end of the day, when you hear this evidence and hear this testimony, it's pretty damning.

LEMON: But they could have had --

STEWART: And there's no amount of lipstick you can put on this to make this not look it.

LEMON: But could they have had a Trump ally on there?

[02:50:00] AXELROD: It could have, yes. They chose not to. That was Kevin McCarthy's decision. He wanted to put Jim Jordan and others on there who we now know were part of the deal.

LEMON: Can I get a pardon, please?

AXELROD: It was a part of the deal. So, the speaker said, no. And said, you can put other people on the Committee. And he -- and I think Donald Trump, at that point, said, no. We don't want to legitimate it. We want to call it a kangaroo court. They're executing a political strategy.

But I will say this, tonight in Illinois, for example, there was a race between two Republican Congress -- members of Congress. One was a freedom caucus member named Mary Miller. Trump went and endorsed her over the weekend. It was a very close race at the time. It looks like she's going to win by more than a few points tonight. The endorsed -- the candidate for governor jumped on a moving train there. But the guy's a 100 percent Trumper, Darren Bailey, who got nominated there.

So, we shouldn't underestimate the loyalty that people feel to Trump among his base. And it -- you know, I don't know that it has been -- it may have been shaken among some. I don't know among most. The real question is, does that -- two things, does it translate into, yes, we'd like him to run for president again. And I think this may have some impact on how people view him moving forward. And I think people are tired of the 2020 stuff. And they may want to move forward.

The second thing is, on this issue, this is not just a legal issue, what the justice department does. There is no parallel here. If the justice department indicts a president of the United States who, you know, was the preceding president, there are consequences to that that have to be considered. Including, how all those people who were out there with guns and knives and all of that, how do they process this?

So, I mean, this is a really, really complex situation. I think what Donald Trump did was despicable. And I -- and, boy, I'm not a lawyer, much my mother chagrin, but I think that it sure feels like he bears legal responsibility for and in Georgia as well. But you have to weigh a lot of factors before you bring that case.

HONIG: You do.

LEMON: Thank you. Appreciate it.

Today's hearing was a damming account of the then-president's actions on January 6th. And that's not all. There's bad news for Trump on the investigation in Georgia, as David just mentioned. We're going to tell you why, that's next.

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[02:55:00]

We're learning tonight, documentary filmmaker, Alex Holder, has been subpoenaed by the district attorney of Fulton County, Georgia as part of her investigation into the Donald Trump's pressure campaign to get State officials to overturn election results. A lawyer says, Holder will comply. He was given widespread access -- behind the scene access, I should say, inside the Trump White House. Interviewing the former president and his family and allies for his upcoming documentary, "Unprecedented", which will be released on Discovery Plus which is owned by CNN's parent company. A source saying the D.A. is seeking Holder's cooperation. As well as, raw footage from the documentary.

A damning portrait of then-president desperate to get to the Capitol insisting, I'm the effing president. All of today's bombshell testimony, next.

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