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Griner Attends First Hearing; Cheney Defends Work on January 6th; Norm Eisen is Interviewed about Influencing January 6th Testimony; Millions Drive this 4th of July Weekend; Dennis Tajer is Interviewed about Air Travel. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired July 01, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:00:51]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A very good Friday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto, in London today, traveling back from the NATO summit in Madrid. Poppy Harlow is off today.

We are following several major stories this morning.

This morning, the WNBA star Brittney Griner is in a Moscow court for her first trial hearing. This after Russian authorities accused her of smuggling drugs into the country. Griner has already spent the last 130 days in a Russian jail. Officials have now extended her detention for six months pending the outcome of this trial. We should note, the State Department has said Griner has been, quote, wrongfully detained.

And, last night, CNN's Abby Phillip sat down with Griner's wife for an exclusive interview. You will hear part of that conversation in just a moment.

Back at home, though, new developments in the January 6th investigation. Sources tell CNN that someone tried to influence the testimony of Cassidy Hutchinson, the former Trump White House aide who shared damning details about what the former president was doing as the Capitol attack unfolded. We're going to have much more on that just ahead.

We do begin, though, this morning, in Moscow. CNN's senior international correspondent Frederik Pleitgen is outside the court where Brittney Griner's first trial hearing wrapped up, about an hour ago.

Fred, we should note, these trials take place in Russia with enormous political interference, often doing the bidding of the Kremlin. But what are we hearing from the Kremlin this morning and also U.S. diplomats on this?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Jim.

Well, the Kremlin this morning, in a regular scheduled call with the Kremlin spokesperson, said this was not a political trial, that they did not want to interfere, they did not want to comment on this trial. You look at what's going on today. We came here. The media was not allowed inside the courtroom. However, there were representatives of the U.S. embassy who were inside.

Now, Brittney Griner was there. And as far as the way that this trial date went, she was at first read the charges, obviously. She was asked whether she wanted to comment on the charges. She said that she did not want to. But she did say that she understood the charges against her.

There were two witnesses that were heard today. The trial, I would say - or this trial date lasted about - I would say about 2.5 hours and she was then led out of the courtroom.

Now, you're absolutely right, the U.S. embassy was here in the form of the charge d'affaires. The U.S. obviously says that Brittney Griner is being wrongfully detained here in Russia. I want to listen to some of what the charge said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELIZABETH ROOD, CHARGE D'AFFAIRES AT U.S. EMBASSY IN MOSCOW: The U.S. embassy, the American government, cares very deeply about this case and about Miss Griner's welfare, as do millions of Americans, as well as we care about the welfare of all U.S. citizens imprisoned overseas.

I did have the opportunity to speak with Miss Griner in the courtroom. She is doing as well as can be expected in these difficult circumstances. And she asked me to convey that she is in good spirits and is keeping up the faith.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PLEITGEN: So there's the charge d'affaires saying that Brittney Griner continues to be in good spirits despite the fact, of course, that this trial is one that could carry a significant prison sentence with it. The worst could be up to ten years in a Russian penal colony.

There were some details as to what exactly this trial is about that we found out today as well. The prosecutor apparently saying that they found two vaping cartridges inside Brittney Griner's hand luggage and her luggage when she entered Sheremetyevo Airport from outside of Russia in February of this year. Apparently one of them contained 0.25 of a gram of hash oil and the other one 0.5, around about 0.5 of a gram of hash oil. In total this is about 0.7 of a gram of cannabis oil that was apparently found with Miss Griner. Again, a severe prison sentence could follow as far as this trial is concerned.

I was able to speak briefly to Brittney Griner's lawyer after that. He did not want to make a prediction as to which way this trial will go. But we do know the next trial date, Jim, is set for July 7th.

SCIUTTO: Fred Pleitgen, in Moscow, thanks so much.

Last night, ahead of this morning's hearing, CNN's senior political correspondent Abby Phillip sat down with Brittney Griner's wife, Cherelle, for an exclusive interview.

Abby joining me now with more.

[09:05:02]

She had a message for President Biden. What did she say?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Jim.

Cherelle Griner is pretty clear-eyed about what her wife faces in Russia and she wants to sit down with President Biden. She believes that that is a pivotal step in the process of bringing her wife home.

You know, one thing to note that she told me, Brittney Griner cast her first ballot ever for President Biden - for President Biden, and Cherelle Griner thinks that that should mean something, that her plight should get all the way to the highest levels of this government and they should be willing to do whatever it takes, she said, whatever it takes to bring her wife home.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Do you trust that the maximum amount of effort is being put forward to bring BG home?

CHERELLE GRINER, WIFE OF DETAINED WNBA STAR BRITTNEY GRINER: No, I don't. And I hate to say that because I do trust that they are -- that the persons working on this are very genuine people. That I do believe.

But I don't think the maximum amount of effort is being done because, again, the rhetoric and the actions don't match.

You know, when you have a situation where BG can call our government, the embassy, 11 times, and that phone call don't get answered, you don't have my trust at that point until I see actions that are in BG's best interests. It would have been in her best interests for her phone call to have been answered. It would be in her best interest for her to be back on U.S. soil. So, until I see things like that, no.

PHILLIP: I know that you've had some conversations with the secretary of state and with other officials, but you want to talk to President Biden, right?

GRINER: Absolutely. And the reason why is because, I'm new to this, you know, so I don't -- I'm no politician. I just graduated law school. So I can only, you know -- I can only do those things that are being told are beneficial for my wife. And the most beneficial thing that I've been told is that, you know, you meet with President Biden, you know, he has that power. He is a person, you know, that ultimately will make that decision for BG to come home. And so while everybody else wants to tell me they care, I would love for him to tell me that he cares.

PHILLIP: What do you want to tell him? If you were to sit in front of him, what would you say speaking directly to him?

GRINER: Well, honestly, the first thing is, I want to humanize my wife to him. You know, BG, she's no politician. She, honestly, you know, didn't really get into this type of stuff when it comes to voting and all of that until, you know, we got married and, obviously, I'm very, very, very big on, you know, voting and all of, you know, the legal process and stuff in our system. And so this is her first year voting. You know, so his ballot was my wife's first-time --

PHILLIP: She voted for President Biden?

GRINER: She did. You know, she took -- made that conscious decision to trust in him and his administration.

PHILLIP: There's talk of prisoner swaps being the thing that needs to happen. Is that what you think should be done? Do you think that the administration should say, we will swap who you want for Brittany and bring her home?

GRINER: To the very honest with you, I don't really listen to much of the talk about the how and measures of, you know, what is necessary to get her home. But if that's what's necessary, then, yes, do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: And, Jim, as you know, there's been some discussion that there is, perhaps, a prisoner swap that could be made. A very high value prisoner for Russia, known as the merchant of death, who is imprisoned in the United States. And Brittney -- you know, Cherelle Griner did not talk very much about those details, but there is an awareness that if there is something that can be done, she wants that done. She wants a prisoner swap, if that is a possibility, to happen for her wife. And that was part of the message that she wanted to deliver to President Biden, you know, in this interview was that there's no prisoner that Russia wants that is of higher value, as I'm sure you can imagine, than her wife.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: And there is some precedent for this with Russia certainly, even recently, for swatches such as that.

PHILLIP: Exactly.

SCIUTTO: Abby Phillip, in Phoenix, thank so much.

Back here in the U.S., CNN has learned from three sources that former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson told the January 6th committee she was contacted by someone trying to influence her testimony. Vice chair Liz Cheney said earlier this week that people connected to former President Trump may have attempted to influence and intimidate at least two witnesses.

This comes as Cheney was forced to defend her work on the committee during a Republican primary debate in her home state of Wyoming while her Trump endorsed opponent repeated falsehoods about the 2020 election.

[09:10:10]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): I am frankly stunned that one of my opponents on the stage who is a member of the Wyoming bar, who has sworn an oath, as many of us on this stage have of the Constitution, would be in a position where she is suggesting that somehow what happened on January 6th was justified.

We have to put our oath to the Constitution above party.

HARRIET HAGEMAN (R), WYOMING CANDIDATE FOR U.S. HOUSE: And what we have is we have a committee in Congress right now that they're focusing on something that happened 18 months ago. They're not focusing on the issues that are important to the people in Wyoming, and they're also ignoring the corruption that is absolutely destroying Washington, D.C.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: CNN's Melanie Zanona joins me now from the Capitol.

And this was a key revelation from Hutchinson's testimony earlier this week, that the impression of possible witness tampering. What more are we learning?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes, there's been quite a few developments since that explosive hearing on Tuesday. At the tail end of that hearing, the select committee revealed that Trump and his allies had tried to influence at least two witnesses in their January 6th investigation. And it was communicated to these witnesses that Trump was paying attention, and Trump was hoping that they would remain committed.

Now, sources tell my colleagues that Cassidy Hutchinson, the former White House aide who testified earlier this week, was one of those witnesses. But, Jim, we should also point out that it's no secret how Trump has publicly tried to sway witnesses. Whether that's attacking people who have gone up against him, or praising people who have remained loyal to him.

And Cassidy Hutchinson has been at the center of some of those attacks this week. Trump and his allies have been working to try to discredit part of her testimony. Specifically they are -- privately anyway, disputing a story that she testified under oath that she was told by Tony Ornato about Trump reaching up and trying to grab at the steering wheel of the presidential SUV because he was so angry that his Secret Service wouldn't take him to the Capitol on January 6th.

Now, my colleagues have also reported that the select committee has spoken to Ornato, in fact twice at this point, and committee members have been frustrated with aspects of his testimony. Stephanie Murphy told NBC that Ornato was evasive about the incident in question. And Adam Kinzinger is drawing attention to instances where two former Trump officials say Tony Ornato lied to them, with Kinzinger tweeting, there seems to be a major thread here, Tony Ornato likes to lie.

So, clearly, some very serious questions and concerns about Tony Ornato's credibility here, Jim. I think the question now is whether any of these Trump officials who are privately disputing this testimony are going to come forward and do so publicly and under oath, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes, and it's one thing to tweet about it, it's another thing to testify under oath.

Melanie Zanona, thanks so much.

So, joining me now to discuss the legal aspects of this, Ambassador Norm Eisen. He's former House judiciary special council in former President Trump's first impeachment trial. He's also a senior fellow at Brookings Institution.

Good to have you on, sir.

I wonder, as we look at what we've learned about communications between people in Trump world and some of these witnesses, I mean there's almost a mafia don (ph) quality to some of these communications as described by witnesses, you know, the president, the former president, believes you will be loyal, et cetera.

But I wonder, what is the legal standard to establish witness tampering?

NORM EISEN, FORMER HOUSE JUDICIARY SPECIAL COUNSEL IN TRUMP'S FIRST IMPEACHMENT: Jim, witness tampering is forbidden under 18 USC 1512. And what the government would have to establish is what we seem to see emerging here, we don't yet have proof beyond a reasonable doubt that you would have for a jury, but a very troubling pattern. You need to show an effort to intimidate, coerce, or affect the testimony of a witness. And it needs to be corrupt. It needs to be done with bad intent.

SCIUTTO: OK.

EISEN: And the picture that we have here very much fits into that because we have seen what they're doing to Cassidy Hutchinson. We've seen Donald Trump and his cohort attempt to do this before most famously with Michael Cohen. Privately, we saw those messages. Privately they applied the pressure, Trump is watching, he reads transcripts, and then if you cross him, they blast you. And another element that's come out, they pay your fees. So, there's a financial aspect. And then, of course, the misrepresentations about her.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you about that because that was -- Hutchinson, for instance, had a lawyer team paid by Trump world before she switched lawyers. Would paying a lawyer to represent, that by itself is not criminal, but are you saying that fits -- that could fit into a fact pattern of witness tampering?

EISEN: Indeed, Jim. They're very -- in my private practice, I've often represented executives when the corporation pays. But there are very strict ethics rules.

[09:15:01]

In fact, you need to be even more rigorous in that situation. You don't share, without permission, what your client is telling you, when you're being paid by another. You never let it affect your professional decisions. Certainly not as is being reported. Her prior lawyer encouraging her not to testify.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

EISEN: And then, if it's true, she changes lawyers and she steps forward. So, it fits into a larger pattern. And I think it's very important to consider Ornato, who has an alleged pattern of lying, his attacks on her after her devastating testimony as part of that larger pattern we've seen before from Donald Trump.

SCIUTTO: Final question, if I can. Does it make a difference, from a legal perspective, if those communications go through an intermediary? In other words, it's not the president reaching out to witnesses, but others on behalf saying, well, the big man is watching, he believes you'll be loyal, et cetera. Does that make a legal difference?

EISEN: It does. It cuts two ways, Jim. On the one hand, it can broaden the conspiracy. It brings another person in. On the other hand, it allows, as we - we've seen this a lot in the history of the prosecution of the mafia in the United States, of organized crime, it allows the crime boss to be one degree removed. But here, it looks like they've been a little sloppy based on - based on what we saw on Liz Cheney, but on the big screen at the hearing, and direct representation of Trump.

SCIUTTO: Norm Eisen, always good to have you break it down. Thanks so much.

EISEN: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Still to come this hour, today expected to be the busiest travel day of the holiday weekend at airports. But, boy, airline staff shortages could affect your flight. I've had it happen to me a bunch. I'm sure you have as well. I'm going to speak to the head of the pilots union about what's going wrong and what can fix it.

Plus, the big break that helped U.S. Marshals track down a Texas yoga instructor suspected of killing an elite cyclist.

And, embattled Uvalde School District Police Chief Pete Arredondo misses an emotional city council meeting filled with grieving families demanding answers.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My nieces and nephews have to see that at Walmart or HGV (ph), or go to school and know that they still have their jobs because - well, we have to follow the laws (ph). So, suck it up.

These kids were obliterated. My sister was obliterated.

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[09:21:43]

SCIUTTO: Today is expected to be the busiest travel day of the July 4th holiday weekend, as a record number of Americans hit the road. AAA predicts about 42 million people will drive 50 miles or more. This despite high gas prices.

CNN's Leyla Santiago is at a gas station in Miami.

Leyla, what are you seeing down there?

LEYLA SANTIAGO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'm seeing gas prices that are higher than the national average of $4.84. And I'm also seeing that when folks and families come to this gas station here in Miami, you know, you see what you would expect to see, a sort of grumble when you look at the price, the total of what it takes to fill up at the pump. And then you're also talking to people who will tell you they've really made this, the soaring gas prices, a part of their planning for the holiday weekend.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ITAMAR ABERGEL, TRAVELING BY CAR THIS HOLIDAY WEEKEND: We thought a lot about where to go, what distance, like, maybe share a big car, you know. We had to thought on different solutions.

Feel like I need to be more, you know, to calculate my actions more because things are getting, like, very frustrating. So, it's not easy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANTIAGO: And that gentleman, Itamar, he is not alone. A lot of people echoing that sentiment.

So, let's break down the exact numbers. What exactly are we going to see from travelers this weekend? The gas price is certainly a factor, but it doesn't appear, anyway, according it the AAA forecast for Independence Day weekend, that it's holding back all that many people because when you look at their forecast, they expect 42 million travelers to be driving this weekend. And that's an increase from last year and a record-breaking number, 3.5 million people in the airports and 2.5 million that will be traveling this July 4th weekend through some other means.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Leyla Santiago, in Miami, thanks so much.

Well, airlines are preparing for passenger volumes not seen since before the pandemic, they say. Already more than 200 flights have been canceled, 800 delayed. That number expected to grow throughout the day.

American Airline - Airlines for America, rather, the group representing major U.S. airlines, tells CNN they are, quote, navigating a range of challenges, including weather and staffing at the carrier and federal government level, and making every effort to help ensure smooth travel this weekend and year round.

I want to speak now to Captain Dennis Tajer. He's a commercial pilot and the communications chair of the Allied Pilots Association, which represents some 15,000 U.S. airline pilots.

Captain, thanks for taking the time this morning.

DENNIS TAJER, COMMUNICATIONS COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN, ALLIED PILOTS ASSOCIATION: Thank you. A pleasure to be with you.

SCIUTTO: So you hear the statement there from the airlines saying range of challenges, weather, staffing. When I've flown recently, and I've had a lot of delays and I'm sure a lot of people have had the same, staff will quietly tell me, man, this is a staffing issue. We don't have enough flight crews. We don't have enough flight attendance.

And I wonder what you're finding. Is this really about a staffing shortage?

TAJER: Well, I fly for American Airlines, and this week we had clear skies and we had over 700 cancellations.

SCIUTTO: Wow.

TAJER: One of the flights I was on was canceled. Over 90 percent of those flights were attributed to not having a pilot connected to the flight deck.

[09:25:05]

So, this is -- this really comes to the egg or the chicken. The bottom line is, management was not prepared. They sold tickets for flights that they could not properly maned this summer. And this is the second summer in a row.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

TAJER: You know, in June, for American Airlines, nearly 800,000 passengers have been impacted by cancellations, not even started on delays. So the $54 billion that kept the airlines from collapsing, the investment, that worked, but they failed to recover. And two summers in a row now.

SCIUTTO: Yes, I -- that's my next question, $54 billion, that's taxpayer money, was supposed to bring the kind of planning you were talking about, hopefully prevent this kind of thing.

Are you saying that that money didn't go where it should have gone? TAJER: It didn't at American Airlines. They incentivized early

retirements, 1,000 pilots. They gave some 5,000 pilots leaves of absence. It reduced pay rates. All voluntary. They parked 100 airplanes. All of this triggered as well as their decision to not keep pilots current, which was one of the obligations of the loans. So all of this started this training backlog. And that's when we came out of the pandemic, and it has continued because management can't seem to get it right.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

TAJER: But they focused on selling the tickets and there's fingers crossed that they could get it done. And they've laid it on our plates and it's not working. There are unrealistic schedules. We've got pilots fatiguing out, timing out. The bottom line is, passengers, they're being canceled when it shouldn't have happened. This was preventable.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

TAJER: (INAUDIBLE).

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this, because, of course, you can't create pilots out of nowhere. It takes a lot of hours in the cockpit. Like, it takes a lot of training to qualify.

I know they're trying to recruit new pilots, train them up, but that takes some time. I mean how long will this shortage last, do you think, and is enough being done now to fill the gaps?

TAJER: No, enough's not being done. And airlines have spoken to that. At American, they've offered up a two-year, 50 percent override for the regional -- the smaller carriers because they think the shortage is at least two years long.

SCIUTTO: Wow.

TAJER: United said it's three to five years. So, this is a long-term problem because of a failure to plan. But we can get through this. With the pilot unions, we can increase the training productivity, but management has been more focused on just printing the tickets, collecting the money, and not ensuring that we can execute reliably.

And we're going to help fix that, but management teams need to listen to us, particularly at American Airlines. And it's not just about the money. This is about realistic scheduling.

SCIUTTO: Yes. You don't want to overstretch pilots. And, boy, it's no fun when your plans get canceled when you're trying to fly.

Captain Dennis Tajer, thanks so much for joining us.

TAJER: Thank you, sir.

SCIUTTO: Coming up next, rescue operations still underway after Russia once again attacked civilian targets in Ukraine. This time killing at least 20 people in the Odessa region, a residential building there you can see. We're going to take you live to Ukraine just ahead.

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