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Trump World Attempting to Influence January 6 Testimony?; Air Travel Delays; Biden Meets With Governors on Protecting Abortion Rights. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired July 01, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:31]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello, and happy Friday. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

Happening now: President Biden is meeting virtually with a group of Democratic governors, as the fight over abortion rights intensifies across the nation. Fierce legal battles are playing out in several states one week after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade.

The president has called for dropping the Senate filibuster rules to cement abortion rights into law and he is promising more announcements on the actions he will take.

CNN's M.J. Lee joins us at the White House.

Now, M.J., let's start with this meeting happening right now. It's notable that only allies are joining this call.

M.J. LEE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Ana.

We are about to see President Biden turn his attention to this news that absolutely rocked the country last week, of course, the Supreme Court's decision to overrule Roe v. Wade. This is a decision that the president himself had referred to as outrageous.

And what we are about to see moments from now is the president holding a virtual meeting with nine governors across the country. These are governors hailing from states that really span the country all the way from the West Coast to the East Coast.

I think we have a list of those governors, if you take a look there, governors from the states of New York, Colorado, Illinois, the state of Washington. And what we expect to see in this meeting, Ana, is basically a discussion between the president and these governors on what the federal government can do to try to help these individual states as they try to work out what they can do to help protect abortion rights for people in their individual states.

Now, this meeting, of course, is a reminder -- the fact that President Biden is calling this meeting with individual governors is a reminder of sort of the chaos that we have seen since last week's Supreme Court ruling, where, essentially, these states are there to sort of set the abortion policies on their own. And so much now has to do with whether the states are run by mostly Democrats or Republicans, so a hugely hot political issue in all of these dates -- Ana.

CABRERA: And President Biden said yesterday that he was going to make more announcements concerning abortions. Any insight into what he may say, or when those announcements are coming?

LEE: Yes, we will see whether the president makes any new announcements at this meeting today or where -- whether they will come after he has had a chance to talk to these governors, but just a reminder of some of the issues that the administration has already talked about.

They include things like protecting a woman's ability to travel out of state to get the health care services that she needs or access to medications that are related to abortion. So these are some of the issues that we expect the president to continue discussing.

Of course, the big news from the president over the last couple of days has been him weighing in and frankly saying, look, this isn't -- there isn't really a lot that I can do from the White House. The most comprehensive action that can be taken is for Congress to codify Roe v. Wade -- Roe v. Wade, and he has said that he supports changing filibuster rules to do that.

Of course, the votes are not there right now in order for him to see that happen in the Senate -- Ana.

CABRERA: M.J. Lee at the White House for us, thank you.

So, as we see some state abortion bans now go into effect, the actual enforcement of those restrictions could hinge on local prosecutors. And now dozens of district attorneys and some state A.G.s across the country are vowing not to prosecute abortion cases.

Some of those officials are in Texas, where Republican Governor Greg Abbott, signed the so-called Heartbeat Act into law last year. That bans abortions after a fetal heartbeat is detected, which normally happens about six weeks into pregnancy.

The legality of a separate law which could go even further is also tied up in a court right now in that state.

So, let's bring in Jose Garza. He's a district attorney for Travis County, Texas. That includes the big city of Austin, Texas.

Thanks so much for taking the time.

Talk to us about what's happening there right now. Are abortions being limited?

JOSE GARZA, TRAVIS COUNTY, TEXAS, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: They absolutely are being limited.

Right now, there is an enormous amount of fear and confusion all across the state. Right now, victims of crime, victims of sexual assault and domestic violence are without recourse. And what we know is that the decision by the Supreme Court and the actions of our state leaders here in the state of Texas have made our community less safe.

[13:05:02]

And so the work ahead of us is to protect the safety of our community.

CABRERA: So you signed on with about 90 other elected prosecutors around the country. And you're sending a message here, saying you're not going to prosecute abortion-related cases.

But, at the end of the day, is it really going to ensure access to abortion care there in Texas? Are doctors and health care clinics going to be willing to break the law?

GARZA: Well, in this moment, each of us has a responsibility to do everything within our power to keep our community safe, to protect the rights of women and families to make personal health care decisions.

And I think that we are seeing leaders in communities across the state step up and do what's in their power. My responsibility is to keep our community safe. And I want to be clear for our community that we will not be prosecuting women who seek abortions, we will not be prosecuting people who provide abortions, because doing that would make our community less safe.

CABRERA: But will people still provide abortions? That's, I guess, the question.

Your term ends in 2024. There's always the chance that whoever replaces you could choose to prosecute these crimes, if it is the law of the land. So what makes you confident that health care providers are going to take that risk?

GARZA: Well, it is a significant risk for health care providers.

There is ongoing litigation here in the state of Texas that has allowed providers to continue to offer this service while this litigation is pending. And we're going to have to continue to fight.

But let me just say this about my community. I have this job because of the people who live in Travis County. The people who live in Travis County know how crucial it is for women and families to be able to make personal health care decisions without interference from the state.

And whether I am in this seat or someone else is, I'm confident that those will continue to be the values of our community.

CABRERA: Bottom line, though, you don't make the laws. You uphold the law, you enforce the law. That's your job. So are you saying you're just going to not uphold this law?

GARZA: Well, that's -- my job -- what the law says in the state of Texas is that the job of every prosecutor is to see that justice is done.

And so what we do in every case is to ensure a just outcome. It is unjust to prosecute a woman who is making a personal health care decision or a family that's making a personal health care decision. Those are the kinds of decisions that get made by prosecutors every single day all across the country.

And I'm going to continue to make those decisions with the best interests and the safety of my community in mind.

CABRERA: District attorney Jose Garza, thank you very much for sharing your perspective and your situation there in Travis County with us.

GARZA: Thank you.

CABRERA: If you are among the millions of people getting ready to head to the airport to begin your Fourth of July weekend, you might want to have a backup travel plan or maybe just take a sleeping bag with you to the airport.

At least 280 flights have already been canceled today so far. More than 2,100 are delayed. And airlines are warning there will be more.

CNN's Pete Muntean is at Reagan National. That's outside Washington.

Pete, this is like the Super Bowl of holiday weekends, we're told. Why don't airlines seem to be up to the challenge?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: In short, Ana, airlines got a lot smaller over the pandemic.

That, combined with the fact that bad weather is coming for some major hubs, that is when the deck of cards typically comes tumbling down and the cancellations begin to go up and up. We're already seeing it today, more than 200 cancellations nationwide, according to FlightAware.

There were more than 400 yesterday. Look at last weekend and the weekend before that, last weekend, 2,200 flights canceled nationwide, the weekend before, the Juneteenth and Father's Day weekend, 3,200 flights canceled nationwide.

Airlines right now are under this mandate from Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg to perform over the July 4 holiday weekend. He says that they must get their acts together, especially after these roving, massive cancellations.

Even though airlines put some of the blame back on the federal government for what they call air traffic control staffing shortages, I asked the transportation secretary about that. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: So who is really to blame when it comes to these massive cancellations?

PETE BUTTIGIEG (D), FORMER MAYOR OF SOUTH BEND, INDIANA: Well, let's be very clear. The majority of delays and the majority of cancellations have not been caused by air traffic control staffing issues.

The bottom line here is that the airlines that are selling these tickets need to have the crews and the staff to back up those sales.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:10:03]

MUNTEAN: Delta Air Line pilots picketed yesterday in some major hubs. They're off-duty. They say they're simply overworked because of the pandemic rebound. Delta Air Lines says it's in a very unique position, in fact, the most troubling time they say in a long time, according to Delta's CEO.

Delta has offered a waiver to all of its passengers flying today through July 4, allowing them to change their flights and their tickets completely free of charge if they want to, a bit of a win for airlines, Ana, although -- or for passengers, Ana, although a bit of an admission by Delta that things could get worse before they get better.

CABRERA: And, Pete, I always look for the silver lining here. We're hearing about a $10,000 perk perhaps as well?

MUNTEAN: Yes, airlines are smaller. There are fewer planes. There are fewer rounds. And they're overbooking flights.

And we keep hearing anecdotally about this flight earlier this. And this flight earlier this week between Minneapolis and Grand Rapids -- it was on its way from Grand Rapids in Minneapolis. And passengers were offered up to $10,000 by Delta to give up their seat on the flight.

It's a pretty anomalous kind of thing. This doesn't happen all the time. The thing we keep telling folks is to try and book a direct flight if you can, leave early in the morning, beat the weather, before the thunderstorms come up at late in the afternoon. That's the way to do it.

The day of an hour-long layover, probably just not enough anymore -- Ana.

CABRERA: OK, Pete Muntean, thank you.

So, OK, if we can't get a $10,000 airline pay bump to give up our seats, how do we navigate these travel troubles?

Clint Henderson, travel guru and managing editor at The Points Guy, joins us now.

Clint, good to see you. First, I got to get your reaction to that airline offering $10,000

apparently for people to get bumped. Have you ever heard of such a thing?

CLINT HENDERSON, THE POINTS GUY: Ten thousand dollars is extraordinarily high. We don't usually see that -- amounts that high.

But they do go starting at $300 and go up to $1,000 oftentimes, especially these days. The problem is, they're going to put you on the next available flight. But is there a next available flight? That's the big question a lot of travelers have to ask themselves right now.

CABRERA: Yes, we mentioned hundreds of flights already canceled, hundreds more delayed today. This is becoming sort of a daily occurrence, it seems like.

What's your advice to those travelers? What options, what power do you have?

HENDERSON: So, right now, consumers have to be their own best advocate. You really need to have a backup plan.

The first thing I tell people is make sure you know what other airlines are operating the route that you want to take. So if you're flying American Airlines, for example, to Dallas, know if there's a Delta flight that you could potentially be put on. Be one of the first to rebook.

So what that means is you should have the airline's app downloaded on your phone. If things go sideways, you can potentially rebook yourself. But at the same time you're doing that, get in line in the customer service line, and also ping them on social media.

So make sure you're following the airline you're flying on Twitter, Instagram, because a lot of times, even if customer support on the phone is overwhelmed, you will be able to reach someone via direct message on Twitter or Instagram.

CABRERA: Should people expect to get refunded for flights that are canceled? I mean, some people may be going to a wedding, and they can't even get there in time to make that wedding. So now it's like, OK, what's the point, right?

HENDERSON: Yes.

CABRERA: I mean, our airlines, offering money and that sort of thing to make up for those cancellations?

HENDERSON: So, if the airline cancels your flight, you are entitled to a full refund, and not just a voucher. A lot of times, the airlines will try to give you a voucher, but you actually are entitled to a cash refund if they cancel your flight and you decide not to fly.

You also can sometimes get other forms of compensation. But you really need to follow up with the airline and be your own best advocate, like I said, because they're not going to voluntarily give you cash or points if you have had a trip interrupted or a trip delayed.

They also won't necessarily give you a hotel room, especially if it's weather-related. But you can ask for those things. And, sometimes, what we tell people to do, if you can't get through to customer service, then go ahead and book the hotel room, pay for your meals on your own, and then ask for reimbursement later.

CABRERA: Airfares are up more than 20 percent compared to pre- pandemic prices. And they're up nearly 40 percent if you just look at year to year, so over last year.

And yet Delta is saying they're expecting the most travelers of any weekend since before the pandemic right now. So is the message here airlines can just keep hiking prices because they can; consumers are going to pay for it?

HENDERSON: Yes, so far, we're not seeing any resistance from consumers to higher prices.

And what I think you're seeing is, there was so much pent-up demand during the pandemic that people are determined to finally make those trips they have been planning for two years, and they don't care how much it costs, how much gas prices are, how many flights are canceled. They're determined to travel.

[13:15:01]

I will say, there are deals still to be had out there, especially if you're willing to travel internationally. And if you can wait until shoulder season, the fall, September, October, there are some extraordinary deals. And I think the airlines will have gotten their acts together by then.

CABRERA: Clint Henderson, thank you very much for helping to guide us through the travel trouble this weekend and beyond.

HENDERSON: Good luck.

CABRERA: You too. Have a great weekend.

Trump world is paying for their legal fees, but is there more to this story? A new report is raising some serious questions about whether the former president is influencing testimony in the January 6 investigation.

Plus: five hours in a small cage just to get to court. U.S. basketball star Brittney Griner has now been detained in Russia for months on supposed drug charges. Today, her trial began. Details on that.

And nobody's giving us answers. Anger erupts at a Uvalde City Council meeting, as families plead for information the mass shooting. Why haven't they gotten answers?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:20:23] CABRERA: The president is speaking on abortion ahead of his meeting

with governors this afternoon. Let's listen in to what he just said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Filibuster should not stand in the way of us being able to do that.

But, right now, we don't have the votes in the Senate to change the filibuster on -- at the moment. That means we need two more votes now -- not now, when we vote probably after November, more senators and House majority -- and the House majority elected in November, to get this bill to my desk.

So, the choice is clear. We either elect federal senators and representatives who will codify Roe, or Republicans who will elect -- the House and Senate who will try to ban abortions nationwide, nationwide.

This is going to go one way or the other after November. So let's remember, the reasoning of this decision has an impact much beyond Roe and to the right to privacy more generally. Justice Thomas himself said that, under the reasoning of this decision, that the court should reconsider marriage equality and contraception.

And there's a lot of stake here. In the meantime, I want to hear what the governors are doing, talk about my plans and discuss what we can do until Congress acts. This is not over. It's not over.

I'm going to turn it over to Jen Klein, the head of the White House Gender Policy Council, and we will proceed with the discussions.

Jen.

JENNIFER KLEIN, CO-CHAIR, WHITE HOUSE GENDER POLICY COUNCIL: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. President.

And I'd like to add my thanks to each of you for joining and for your leadership...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: OK, we're going to keep listening in to this, and we will bring you any new information as the president announces his plan.

He did say, "This is not over," when it comes to abortion rights here in America. Again, we will monitor and bring you new developments.

Meantime, there are new questions today about Donald Trump and his allies and their possible influence on witnesses who testify before the January 6 Committee. "The New York Times" reports the former president's political organization and some of his supporters have paid for or promised to cover the legal fees of more than a dozen witnesses.

So this reinforces what former Trump White House communications director Alyssa Farah Griffin revealed here on CNN yesterday. Now, remember, Griffin is a close personal friend of Cassidy Hutchinson, the former West Wing aide who delivered that explosive testimony earlier this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Cassidy actually came to me and said, "There's more I want to share with the committee" a couple months ago.

I put her in with Congresswoman -- put her in touch with Congresswoman Cheney. She got a new lawyer. And that's how this testimony came about.

What people need to understand is, Trump world was assigning lawyers to a lot of these -- these staffers who themselves don't have big...

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Wait. Assigning lawyers

FARAH GRIFFIN: Well, I should say covering the costs of lawyers for people who don't have big legal defense funds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Joining us now is Michael Moore, a former U.S. attorney for Middle Georgia and former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti. He is also the host of the "On Topic" podcast.

Gentlemen, it's always good to have your expertise. Thank you for being here with us.

Michael, Trump world paying for lawyers for some of these people sitting down with the committee. Legally, is that sound?

MICHAEL MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: You know, they're -- I'm glad to be with you, first.

There really is not a problem with an organization paying to have a lawyer or lawyers represent people that may have been involved, for instance, in an administration.

The problem here is, it seems to probably create a pretty clear and instant conflict of interests, given the questions and given the inquiry made by this committee. And so that's the issue. So I think it was smart that Ms. Hutchinson got another lawyer to lead her along.

And I think it probably plays into the larger narrative that Trump continues to try to control the testimony and pull puppet strings from people -- for people as they talk about his involvement and his team's involvement in January the 6th.

So can an organization pay for a lawyer? Absolutely, they can.

CABRERA: Right. So...

MOORE: Is it a problem when there's a conflict of interests? That's where we're at now.

CABRERA: OK.

And that's where I wanted to go, because I think it's an important point that you are making there, which is, some of these witnesses, they're young. They may not have a go-to lawyer. They maybe can't afford it. So here they have an employer or a former employer providing legal representation for matters related to their employment. That might be how you could look at it.

And that happens in other settings, right?

But, Renato, that isn't inherently witness tampering, is it? Where is that line?

RENATO MARIOTTI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yes, great question, Ana. Yes.

No, it's definitely not. And as you just said a moment ago, it's pretty commonplace. It occurs all the time in matters that I'm involved in and have been involved and have been involved in for many years. It's pretty common, for example, for a company to pay for the lawyers of a former employee or a current employee, something like that.

[13:25:17]

So I think the issue in terms of witness tampering is whether or not somebody is trying to corruptly influence your testimony in a material way, trying to change the facts that she's telling the committee, that sort of thing.

And I do -- and I do -- would note that there was some testimony regarding that at the end of the hearing, where there was, for example, a text message, I believe it was, that was shown on the screen. And Ms. Hutchinson recounted some testimonies of a phone call, where she was suggested to help keep something silent to protect certain people. That's a much serious -- more serious concern.

CABRERA: I do wonder, Michael, if attorneys for perhaps a bunch of witnesses are paid for by the same people, are they allowed to communicate amongst themselves about testimony related to their shared clients?

MOORE: They're not allowed to share client confidences. But they are allowed to do what is often called a joint defense agreement, if that's the case, but that -- we're not at that place yet. We're not at a prosecution.

We're merely before -- in a congressional inquiry. Interestingly enough, the issue of witness tampering may be one of the biggest threats to Trump yet. And that is because it's an offense that happened after he was a sitting president. And so it sort of removes some of the arguments that we're going to hear about whether or not he had privilege, whether or not a president can be charged with a crime and those things, whether or not he was a candidate at the time. But imagine if...

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: But, technically, he was still president, though -- technically, he was president...

MOORE: He is not now, though.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: ... past January 6, up until the inauguration of Joe Biden.

(CROSSTALK)

MOORE: That's right.

CABRERA: Yes, but not now. You're right, not now.

MOORE: But the witness intimidation, when we're talking about it, and the communication is going on now.

And so that, in and of itself, is a separate federal offense. And so we don't need to get caught up in whether or not we go after somebody on a whim and speculation and hearsay and this type of thing. And I hope they have more evidence and some direct links to him as they go forward, if they decide to charge him.

But you have here a pretty clear indication that it's coming from his inner circle. And so those people will start to talk. And I expect you will find some text trafficking, some e-mail traffic, some direction about making sure that people stay in line.

We already know that a little bit, because they have told at least one of the witnesses that he tends to read the transcripts...

CABRERA: Yes.

MOORE: ... which is a clear indication that he's at the top of the ladder here.

CABRERA: Renato, we learned that Tony Ornato, the man who Cassidy Hutchinson said told her that story about the alleged incident involving Trump lunging at the wheel and at a Secret Service agent, that he already met with the committee twice, but it's unclear if he was asked about that specific incident.

Right now, though, through other people, we're told he denies that story. But I wonder, in your experience, does it make a huge difference when someone's testifying voluntarily compared to under oath? Do you get different answers sometimes?

MARIOTTI: Well, sure, there's no question that when you are in a proceeding where they're raising their right hand and there's a court reporter, you do get different answers. In fact, I remember times where I would put the -- let's say, the wife

or girlfriend of a defendant into the grand jury to get their testimony when they were lying to try to cover up something, and they would change their tune when they were under oath, because they didn't want to get in trouble.

Now, here, obviously, a Secret Service agent, I would expect that you would ordinarily tell the truth. I have heard allegations about political motives, I will say. Just like anyone else, federal agents have political views. And I'm -- I have worked with some Secret Service agents who had strong views. So that wouldn't surprise me as well.

I do think he should testify under oath. And people can decide what the truth is here.

CABRERA: OK, thank you both, Renato Mariotti and Michael Moore. I really appreciate all of that. Happy Friday. I hope you enjoy the holiday weekend.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: She's been detained in Russia for more than four months on questionable drug charges, and now the trial for WNBA star Brittney Griner has officially gotten under way, as Griner's wife tells CNN the 6'9'' player is put in a very tiny cage for five hours every time she has to go to court.

We're live in Moscow next.

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