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Jan. 6 Committee Concerned About Potential Witness Tampering; Flight Delays And Cancellations Snarl Airports For Millions; Heavy Rains, Thunderstorms Threaten Travel And Celebrations; U.S. Confirms $820 Million In New Military Aid For Ukraine; Airlines Struggle To Keep Up With Demand, Staffing Issues; Ballot Initiative Aims To Enshrine Abortion Protections In Michigan. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired July 02, 2022 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:00:49]

RYAN NOBLES, CNN ANCHOR: Turbulent travel, jam-packed airports, millions on the road. How the busiest travel weekend in years is shaping up.

Plus wicked weather. Severe storms threatening much of the northeast. New York, Boston, Philly and D.C. all in the bullseye. This as tropical storm Colin forms just up the South Carolina coast.

And striking back: how states are responding to the Supreme Court's rule on abortion and guns.

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining me. I'm Ryan Nobles reporting from Washington, in today for Fredricka Whitfield.

We begin with new information that appears to corroborate some of the stunning details from Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony this week before the January 6 committee. The former aide to Mark Meadows testified about the then President Trump's intense anger when security detail refused to take him to the Capitol on January 6.

Now sources in the Secret Service tell CNN that versions of this story have been circulating inside the agency over the past year. This development comes as allegations of witness tampering are getting extra scrutiny on Capitol Hill following Tuesday's explosive hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NOBLES: Witness intimidation has become a serious focus of the January 6 Select Committee. CNN has learned that both instances the committee presented as examples of possible witness intimidation during their hearing on Tuesday were directed at their witness, Cassidy Hutchinson.

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): He knows you loyal and you're going to do the right thing when you go in for your deposition.

I think most Americans know that attempting to influence witnesses to testify untruthfully presents very serious concerns. NOBLES: Sources say the committee believes that pressure was applied

at the behest of former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, a claim Meadows' spokesperson Ben Williamson rejects. "No one from the Meadows camp, himself or otherwise ever sought to intimidate or shape her conversations with the committee," Williamson said in a statement to CNN.

The accusations of intimidation come at the same time the "New York Times" reports that organizations close to Donald Trump have been helping to pay for the legal fees of witnesses before the committee. It's a practice that is not uncommon or illegal but according to the committee's former senior investigator, it does raise potential problems.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It does run the risk that they would be less cooperative than they would be if they had attorneys who were advising them who were being paid by the client. In other words, the witness themselves.

NOBLES: The committee is also still working with Secret Service to schedule another round of depositions for two agents at the center of a dispute over the former president's conduct inside the presidential SUV on January 6.

CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER AID TO MARK MEADOWS: -- described him as being irate. The president says something to the effect of, "I'm the effing president, take me up to the Capitol now."

The president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. Mr. Engle grabbed his arm and said, "Sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. We're going back to West Wing. We're not going to the Capitol."

Mr. Trump then used his free hand to lunge towards Bobby Engle. And when Mr. Ornato had (INAUDIBLE) he motioned toward his clavicles.

NOBLES: CNN learning that accounts of an angry Trump demanding to go to the Capitol over Secret Service objections and lunging forward in the SUV started circulating among the agents in the months after January 6.

CNN has learned that agent Tony Ornato who was also Trump's deputy chief of staff has met with the committee on two previous occasions. Some committee members say his version of events on that day were murky.

REP. STEPHANIE MURPHY (D-FL): He did not have as clear of memories from this period of time as I would say Miss Hutchinson did.

NOBLES: Meanwhile, the work of the committee was front and center last night in Wyoming.

[11:04:56]

HARRIET HAGEMAN (R), WYOMING CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: The only time that the J-6 situation ever comes up is when people talk about how unfair this entire committee is.

NOBLES: Vice Chair Liz Cheney's opponent, Harriet Hageman promoting conspiracy theories about the election results while Cheney accused her of doing Trump's bidding.

CHENEY: She knows it wasn't stolen. I think that she can't say that it wasn't stolen because she's completely beholden to Donald Trump. And if she says it wasn't stolen he will not support her.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBLES: And joining me to discuss all these developments is Christopher McClenic. He is a former senior special agent for the Secret Service and a former special assistant U.S. attorney.

Christopher, thank you so much for joining us. You have so much expertise in all of these areas.

So let's first start with these allegations of possible witness tampering by members of the Trump orbit. Now, you currently work as a prosecutor. Is it inappropriate or possibly illegal for these associates of the former president to reach out to witnesses before they testify?

CHRISTOPHER MCCLENIC, FORMER SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT, SECRET SERVICE: Well, first off, good morning Ryan and thank you for having me.

In the reference to the illegality of it, there's some more missing information that I would need to categorically say whether it was illegal. But I can tell you highly inappropriate and quite dubious. It's something that should not take place and candidly something that as a prosecutor, as an attorney, I would never do.

NOBLES: So what kind -- you mentioned that you need more information to determine whether or not it would be prosecutable or a crime. What other evidence would it take for the Department of Justice to take that step?

MCCLENIC: Oh, more clear interviews to see what the motivation behind it. Candidly, I would know that -- I would know that any attorney practicing to -- in behalf of his client would actively come out and say that they were doing the best that they could to zealously defend that client or speak in that client's behalf.

The part that is dubious, if you will, is the fact that the money is coming from someone who they would have to speak against or that they would have to testify against. It's pretty obvious how that I think would be inappropriate.

NOBLES: Right. Right. Let's talk now about the issue with the Secret Service agents that were on the detail on January 6 and the conflicting reports from Cassidy Hutchinson and members of the Secret Service. They are now really at the middle of this investigation.

You worked for the Secret Service during the Trump presidency. You were in the Miami Field office. Do you think that you're fellow former Secret Service agents and you're a former Secret Service agent -- they're current Secret Service agents -- should they testify under oath about what they saw or heard the president do on that day?

MCCLENIC: Gosh -- I hope not. As an agent, as a retired agent, this would be unchartered waters, if you would. The Secret Service generally does not involve itself in these matters and for lack of better expression, the Secret Service tries to rise above them, if you will.

We have a good rapport with all of our protectees. And the idea -- those are of course, our protected people -- the idea that now one of them would have to -- or two or three of them would have to testify in behalf of a protectee opens up a whole new can of worms where we could theoretically destroy our rapport with our protected people.

NOBLES: But part of the problem here is that the Secret Service has gone on the record to refute parts of this. Going on the record for a statement through a spokesperson is not under oath, it's not under the penalty of perjury.

Since the Secret Service took that kind of really unique step in defending their agents, don't they now need to follow that up with testimony under oath, which they have offered?

MCCLENIC: I would say yes to maintain that credibility. Our motto is "Worthy of trust and confidence". And in order to maintain said motto, I think once you start you have to keep going forward. And it's unfortunate. There have been times that other protected persons, you know, there's been allegations against them and the Secret Service chose to stay out of it. So it's not a good day, to be honest with you..

NOBLES: Yes. And to take that one step further, you mentioned the desire of the Secret Service to try and stay above the fray, to not be political. But Tony Ornato was somebody that served as a Secret Service agent and then took a political job as the chief of staff before then going back to the Secret Service.

Was that an unfortunate decision by him and does it risk that future of the Secret Service staying above the fray when comes to politics?

MCCLENIC: I would say yes. I think the idea of going back and forth and then back again opens up a totally different array of problems and the scenarios that could come back to haunt you.

[11:09:58]

MCCLENIC: Again, I personally wouldn't have done it. That's his call. And hopefully that he'll be able to maintain clarity and fairness in both of them. But again, I wouldn't have done such a decision.

NOBLES: All right. Christopher McClenic -- somebody with a wide range of expertise and topics -- thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate it and have a very happy Fourth of July.

MCCLENIC: You do the same, Ryan. And thank you for having me. NOBLES: All right. Thank you.

Coming up, brace yourselves. Airlines nationwide are expecting the busiest travel weekend since the start of the pandemic and that means crowds, lines, delays and yes, cancellations.

And not to mention severe storms in parts of the country and a newly formed tropical storm that could impact your holiday plans. More on that, next.

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[11:14:52]

NOBLES: Right now, turbulent time for millions of travelers on this busy holiday weekend. Crowd sizes at airports are nearing near-pre pandemic levels and flight delays and cancellations are creating bottlenecks for passengers.

Add in the fact that AAA estimates a record number of Americans will hit the roads and it's shaping up to be one of the busiest travel weekends in years.

CNN's Nadia Romero is at Hartsfield Jackson International Airport in Atlanta. That's the world's busiest airport on a normal day.

Nadia, it's been up and down all morning. Seems like it's calmed down a little bit there now. Just give us a sense of what this weekend is like for travelers.

NADIA ROMERO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Right now, Ryan, we just have a few screaming toddlers. Besides that's it's a pretty quiet, peaceful moment in the airport right now because we just got over our busy morning rush.

But that rush came because there were so many people who tried to get out early -- 6:00 a.m., 7:00 a.m., 8:00 a.m. flights. So we saw that TSA line wrap all the way around and it took them quite a while, at least a half hour to 45 minutes for some people to get through that general boarding line.

Also we saw people whose flights were cancelled yesterday. He came back first thing in the morning to try to get out of Atlanta. I spoke with one woman who told me, no I do not want to be on camera. I'm wearing the same clothing I was wearing yesterday. I was stuck in Atlanta overnight. I'm not happy about it. I'm trying to get on a new flight today.

She's one of the people who would have been on one of those 1,100 flights that were cancelled between yesterday and today. We also have some 1,800 flights today that have been delayed so far.

Now despite all the delays and the cancellations, TSA says they checked in some 2.5 million people yesterday, alone and that is the highest number since before the pandemic, since February of 2020. I spoke with one man who says he's on his way back to California. He hasn't seen his family since before the pandemic because he was so concerned about the virus and things not being open. And so he says this is his first trip since the pandemic. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEONARD MCCOY, TRAVELER: We missed being around them and everything. So now we get a chance to go back to California and enjoy because of the holiday. I think that brings out goodness in everybody. We are ready for the Fourth of July, the fireworks, shootout and just enjoy. You know, have fellowship with every one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMERO: He just wants to enjoy finally being able to travel again. Now only about 14 percent or so of people are going to be traveling by air. The majority of people are going to be traveling by car. So 88 percent of Americans are going to be traveling by car. That's 42 million Americans who will be traveling 50 miles or more.

And you're going to see the highest congestion in your big cities. You guessed it -- Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles, New York, Seattle. So you're going to see those roads really congested with people. Not just to see the fireworks shows but before and after to try to get to where they are going and get back home.

Here back in the airport though, people are making their way through TSA pretty smoothly right now, but we should be expecting another rush towards the late afternoon, Ryan.

NOBLES: Nadia, I've been in that exact sport where you've been many times. It could be much, much worse. Of course, I've never done it with toddlers but as a father of four, I do empathize with the parents that are trying to get through this holiday weekend.

All right. Nadia Romero, thank you so much for that report. We appreciate it.

This weekend, stormy weather could cause problems for travelers and potentially put a damper on holiday plans.

Meteorologist Karen Maginnis is monitoring this storm system. Karen, what are you seeing right now?

KAREN MCGINNIS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes. We've got a fair amount of precipitation all across the United States. There are a few areas that are the exception. But I think a lot of people are going to have to dodge those showers, maybe some thunderstorms especially into the northeast during the evening hours.

So guess what that means. That's where we could see the potential for some delays. Now these are the current delays. Orlando has now disappeared. They were under time management delays, about a half hour. That has now fallen off. But there you see along that I-95 corridor -- you know, Washington, D.C., Philadelphia, New York, into Boston. This is where we're looking at these delays to kind of accelerate with the volume also the rainfall could be problematic -- That does not represent the cancellations. You won't see that that on a weather-related airport delay map.

All right. Tropical storm Colin just doesn't look very good at all. Deep convection more to the south but this actually is about 5 miles off the coast of Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, my hometown. And they will see rip current here. There could be some delays. There's going to be a heavy surf here.

But most of that precipitation is offshore. Wilmington is now seeing some of that heavy precipitation. Lots of lightning, that's a problem. Don't be in the water with that.

But the rip current a problem here, scattered shower and thunderstorms across the deep south. Late in the day, it's New York, Washington and into Boston but also into the Central Plains.

So it could be problematic on the roads but also problematic for the airports as well. We'll keep you updated, Ryan.

[11:19:52]

NOBLES: All right. Karen Maginnis, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

And don't forget to join us for our coast-to-coast fireworks celebration and incredible music from some of the biggest stars. Celebrate the Fourth in America live on July 4th at 7:00 p.m. Eastern only on CNN.

And the U.S. just confirmed it's sending another $820 million in military hardware to Ukraine, much of it in form of missile systems. We'll hear why the U.S. and Ukraine are both saying it could make a big difference on the battlefield.

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[11:24:52]

NOBLES: Russian forces launching new attacks on a small but strategic Ukraine island. (INAUDIBLE) days earlier, Russian warplanes targeted Snake Island last night. Ukraine officials accused Russia of dropping phosphorus bombs on the island. CNN has not been able to independently confirm that claim.

CNN correspondent Scott McLean joins us now from Kyiv. Scott, why is this island so strategically important?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's strategically important, also symbolically important for the Ukrainians, Ryan. Remember day one of the war was when the Russians first took this island but not before a defiant message from a soldier on the island to a Russian warship in the face of calls to surrender.

It is economically important as well because whoever controls it can essentially control the shipping lanes in that area as well which are vitally important.

And of course, militarily it's important because the Russian for the last few months has really had a launching pad very close to the Odessa region that they have not been able to reach by land.

Now, the Russians say that they vacated this island as a good will gesture. Obviously that didn't last long. And if these Ukrainian claims are true that it was a phosphorous bomb that was dropped, that's significant because phosphorus burns bright, it also burns extremely hot. It will burn right through human flesh and obviously very dangerous for anyone who's in the vicinity there.

The Ukrainians say they are working to clear that island, to demine it. Perhaps this strike was meant as a message for the Ukrainians not to rush back there to try to establish some kind of permanent military outpost.

Wanted to mention quickly as well the situation in the far east of the country. There is intense shelling take place along the front line in Donetsk. People who remain in that area still in their homes. And we know that there are many are still -- are really confined to their basements as of late because the fighting is so, so intense.

My colleague Phil Black actually went to the front lines yesterday and he met up with a group of volunteer fighters who were camped out in the forest as the Russians were advancing. And they said -- they told Phil that "For every one heavy shot that we fire, the Russians are sending 10 or 20 back in our direction." They simply cannot compete when it comes to artillery fire power.

The Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has also long called for help beefing up their air defense systems. And now it appears that the Ukrainians are getting help with both of those problems, artillery and air defense in the form of this $820 million shipment of arms to the Ukrainians announced by the Americans yesterday, Ryan.

NOBLES: All right. Scott McLean in Kyiv. Thank you so much, Scott. We appreciate it.

The U.S. also confirmed Friday it will send an additional $820 million worth of military assistance. Most of it comes in the forms of long range missile systems similar those used to protect Washington, D.C. President Biden said he will provide aid to Ukraine for as long as it was needed.

Retired General Wesley Clark joins us now. He's a CNN military analyst, a former NATO Supreme Allied commander and now a senior fellow at UCLA Berkeley Center.

General Clark, thank you for being here. How are these missile systems that the U.S. has been sending over -- how are they making a difference on the battlefield? GENERAL WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: They've got good warheads

or they've got good destructive power if they hit. They are potentially guided by the global positioning system, GPS so they are accurate. And they have long range so they can stand and act ideally out of the range of any comparable Russian system if they fire back.

So it's a matter of artfully putting them in position, making sure you've got the target's coordinates right, firing and then scooting away before an aircraft or helicopter comes hunting for you.

There's only four systems there and (INAUDIBLE) another four sent there but it appears they are making a difference.

NOBLES: Ukraine says that at least 21 people were killed after Russian missiles hit a residential building and recreation centers in the Odessa region. Explain to me, if you can, what Russia's strategy is on the ground right now.

CLARK: The Russian strategy is essentially a war of attrition in the East to draw the Ukrainian forces in including relatively fully retrained reserve forces, territorial forces, pound them with artillery and then hold their best Russian forces back and then seek a breakthrough some time this summer. That would be the Russian strategy there.

And then for the rest of the country to punish, to undercut President Zelenskyy's leadership, to show that he can't protect the people. To sow terror, in other words. And that's what they're doing.

Some of it is -- maybe unintentional but there's been so many targets of civilian facilities and so forth that it's clear that this is more than simply an effort to strike infrastructure. This is an effort to target key facilities that will harm civilians.

NOBLES: As you heard in Scott McLeans report right there, there's another fight over Snake Island. How crucial is Russia's sea blockade of Ukraine right now?

[11:29:57]

CLARK: Well, first of all taking Snake Island back will be a big deal for the Ukrainians because it would give them control of the coastline provided they can put weapon systems there.

It's a rocky out crop. You can't just go in and dig there with shovels. You've got to have real excavation equipment. You have to go under ground to be protected from far. But if you have it, you could conceivably control the northwest corner of the Black Sea.

That means protecting Odessa from amphibious assault and also perhaps getting the grain out. So it's strategically very significant.

NOBLES: And before he left the NATO summit, President Biden said that the sanctions on the Russia are having an effect.

Take a listen to what he had to say. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Look at the impact that the war on Ukraine has had on Russia. They've had to renege on their national debt for the first time since the beginning, almost well over 100 years. They've lost 15 years of the gains they made in terms of their economy. So they're paying a very, very heavy price here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: Now, there are other measures though that the president didn't include which includes the sale of oil. Russia seems to be holding up pretty well there. Do you agree with President Biden that the sanctions are succeeding?

CLARK: Well, the sanctions are succeeding because they're crimping the general economy of Russia. They have taken a lot of wealth away from Russian -- wealthy Russians that are overseas. And some of that wealth would then have poured back into Russia. So it is hurting.

One of the other ways that he didn't mention that it's hurting is they can't get the chips they need, the high technology chips they need to improve their defense manufacturing.

So their (INAUDIBLE) production I'm told is stalled or stopped and they're relying on old missiles instead of new missiles which are -- the old ones less accurate. Now these are all good things. The problem is that the world needs oil and if you took all of the oil off market, several million barrels a day, it's a very inelastic demand function for oil until the price shoots up.

And in fact, our good friends in India have helped the Russians what they are setting up or have already set up. I can't quite tell which, it's a ruble-rupee exchange system where other nations can pay India in rupee for the Russian oil and the Indians feed it back to Russia in rubles. So they're actually acting more or less as an intermediary marketing Russian oil.

This isn't a good thing. And that the president and the G7 want to do is be able to somehow artificially constrain the price that nations pay for Russian oil. So the oil gets to the market but the profits don't go to Russia.

It's going to be tricky because the oil market is not fully transparent. There's lots of individual actors and different motivations but it is the right approach. I think it could be better implemented.

NOBLES: I mean you mentioned that the economic sanctions are having an effect. But how does that play into Putin's calculus here? How long is he willing to have these sanctions continue to batter the Russian economy because it doesn't appear as though it's making him back down militarily, at least not yet.

CLARK: Well, first of all, Putin is playing poker with the West. So if the sanctions were hurting, he's not going to tell us, Ryan. NOBLES: Right, right.

CLARK: He's going to act like it doesn't hurt. It is hurting but the thing is it's also hurting nations in the west. You saw Italy, France, Germany, other western allies would like the sanction regime and the war to be over.

And Putin is gambling that he can break their will before Ukraine breaks the Russian army and defeats him. And so it's a very asymmetric battle.

The thing that Putin may not fully appreciate is certainly he wants Ukraine, but he's all in on Ukraine. He's got 80-85 percent of his military committed in Ukraine and they haven't broken through yet.

But for the west, for NATO -- it's an insignificant commitment. I know we've put $8 billion in but for Germany, they put in 18 artillery pieces; France, 18 -- 24 artillery pieces. They can do that for a long, long time without it ever hurting.

So the way it feels in NATO is always that it's about to come apart and that they're going to pressure and so forth.

Putin shouldn't misread this because the truth is that NATO will hang together. There will always be domestic considerations in NATO just like there are in the United States. But strong leadership with the security which is more fundamental than the price of oil will put security first.

And so I think Putin is on a losing course. We just have to keep telling him this until he finally gets convinced that he's going to lose and then calls it off.

NOBLES: All right. General Wesley Clark, I'd be remiss, General, if I didn't thank you for your service on this holiday weekend. I hope you have great Independence Day. Thank you so much for joining us.

And we'll be right back.

[11:34:46]

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NOBLES: Peak travel season is here this holiday weekend and things are already getting pretty hectic. Airline passengers are bracing for frustrating delays, cancelations and dicey weather -- that's only part of the problem. As CNN's Pete Muntean reports, the blame game is well under way.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Millions of passengers are descending on airports along with summer storms putting short-staffed airlines to their biggest test in years. The TSA screened 2.44 million passengers at U.S. airports on Thursday, just shy of a new pandemic era record.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It feels much more like 2019 than the prior two years.

MUNTEAN: Though with more problems for passengers -- 3.5 percent of all flights this year have been cancelled, a 42 percent increase over 2019.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prepare to go the earliest time as possible.

MUNTEAN: Airlines say they are facing a range of challenges at the carrier and federal government level. Just this week, airlines pointed to air traffic control delays caused by staffing issues at a key facility in Florida.

So who is really to blame when it comes to these massive cancellations?

[11:39:59]

PETE BUTTIGIEG, U.S. TRANSPORTATIONS SECRETARY; The bottom line here is that the airlines that are selling these tickets need to have the crews and the staff to back up those sales.

MUNTEAN: In an e-mail to customers, Delta Airline CEO is apologizing for cancellations saying quote, "The environment we're navigating today is unlike anything we have ever faced."

Thursday, off duty Delta pilots organized picket lines at major hubs saying they are overworked.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON AMBROSI, DELTA AIRLINES PILOT: We have been flying record amounts of over time to in the recovery to help get our passengers safely to their destinations.

MUNTEAN: At its 24/7 command center in Virginia, the FAA says it is monitoring potential weather delays in cities across the country from forecasted thunderstorms, wind and low clouds.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No one likes to be delayed but sometimes that happens and we always are working together intricately to make sure that, you know, we mitigate that as much as possible.

MUNTEAN: Almost no major airline is safe from these massive cancellations. Delta Airlines is going so far as incentivizing its passengers to avoid this weekend's travel mess. It has put in place a travel waiver now through July 4th letting passengers rebook their flights completely free of charge.

Pete Muntean, CNN -- Reagan National Airport.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBLES: Thank you, Pete.

Let's talk more about this now with David Slotnick who is an airline business reporter with The Points Guy. And he joins me now live. So David, you crunched numbers on the airlines with the most cancellations and delays this summer. What did you find?

DAVID SLOTNICK, AIRLINE BUSINESS REPORTER, THE POINTS GUY: So we found a few things. One of the biggest findings is that things actually aren't quite as bad as it sounds. So most flights are getting out. And that's the good news.

The bad news is that cancellations are in fact up over normal summers. They are happening a lot more frequently than normal. And in a lot of cases, it's actually regional airlines which operate smaller flights from, you know, smaller cities, medium size cities to hubs and larger cities.

The bad news also is that we're seeing just a ton of delays, really way more than normal. Routinely 20 to 30 percent of flights are being delayed. And that's just been average. So some days that's actually worse.

And that means lot more missed connections. This obviously has a bit of a chain reaction because people are missing their connections, they can't necessarily get on the next flight because it's full. And it's just really creating havoc throughout the air travel system.

NOBLES: Yes. Sometimes I almost prefer the cancellation so that I can start from scratch and figure out how I'm going to get home, a delays sometimes makes it more difficult.

Now, you also wrote that U.S. carriers were maybe a little too ambitious in planning their summer flight schedules and that's really just angered passengers more. Explain what you mean by that.

SLOTNICK: Yes. So airlines put pretty ambitious schedules out. They knew the travel demand was surging and they put enough flights in their system basically to try and meet that demand to make sure that they could fly everyone.

The problem was, they just don't have the crew to do that. And you know, they should have known at the time. Now, there's a lot of reasons. They keep pointing to things like sick outs, which, you know, are happening. The pandemic is still going on and pilots get COVID just like anyone else.

The problem is they just really didn't account for the fact that they weren't going to be able the fly these flights without relying on crew over time. That's not really a way to have a sustainable system and it's leading to the situation where they're finding to have that they can't necessarily operate what they're expecting to.

Now all of the major airlines have cancelled some flights. They have scaled back their schedules a little bit. But it's still a situation where really they're having trouble meeting these flights.

NOBLES: And you mentioned that overworked pilots at carriers across the board, off duty Delta pilots were picketing this week at major hubs over their schedules and pay but the airlines have blamed some disruptions on air traffic controller shortages. It seems like they just don't have enough workers for any of these roles.

These are critical roles for safe travel. I mean how much should passengers be concerned about this?

SLOTNICK: Yes. I mean you know, they have a point, as Pete said in the segment a moment ago. You know, there's lot of different causes for this and air traffic control shortages are certainly part of this.

The good news is that this doesn't affect safety. This is the reason for the delays. They are making sure that everything is safe. They're keeping the spaces (INAUDIBLE) between planes. They're making sure that every one is rested enough. And that creates a lot of delays but it does guarantee safety. So that's the good news here.

NOBLES: So there might be people watching us today that maybe haven't ventured out since the pandemic started more than two years ago. Maybe they just aren't people that fly a lot. I mean what's your advice for someone who is facing these flight delays and cancellations and doesn't have that kind of experience with it?

SLOTNICK: Sure. So the most important things to do here are just leave as much time as possible. Get to the airport early. You know, lines are really bad. Just everything is short staffed so that includes their check-in agent, the gate agents, things like that.

Get there early. And you know, just make a point of making a frequent flier account so that you can log into the app, your airline's app. Look at your reservation that way. And just make a habit of checking it in the days and hours leading up to your flight.

[11:45:01]

SLOTNICK: If something is cancelled, if something is delayed. You'll see it there first. And that's really just a good way to maybe, you know, get on top of things or note that you should start calling the airline or getting in the customer service line. It's just a way to sort of be your own advocate and sort of take as much control of the situation as you can.

You know, the other thing is just consider which credit card you're booking with. A lot of the time there's travel insurance built in. So you know, if there are delays or anything, maybe call the number on the back of your card, see if there's anything that can help you with.

NOBLES: That advice about downloading the app is very good, David. When I finally figured that out, that made life a lot easier when I was traveling a lot during campaign season.

All right. David Slotnick, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate it.

And the Supreme Court's reversal of Roe v Wade has sparked lawsuits in dozens of states as abortion rights activists try and block bans and extreme restriction. We'll have more on those efforts when we come back.

[11:45:52]

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NOBLES: And breaking overnight, the Texas Supreme Court has issued a ruling allowing a nearly century-old abortion ban to take effect. The 1925 law which was written before the Supreme Court's 1973 Roe v Wade decision that was just overturned weeks ago bans abortions and punishing those who perform them.

Texas' attorney general Ken Paxton is calling the ruling a pro-life victory.

And the fallout from the overturning of Roe v Wade is sparking new legal and political fights in dozens of other states including Michigan.

CNN's Jeff Zeleny has more on how the issue of abortion rights could come down to that state's voters this November.

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GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER, (D-MI): I don't think many knew that Michigan would snap back 91 years to a law that would render this pro-choice state one of the most extreme in the country.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Governor Gretchen Whitmer is on the front lines of the new abortion fight where a temporary court order is all that is keeping Michigan from reverting to a 1931 law that made abortion a felony.

WHITMER: No exceptions for rape, no exceptions for incest. This is how serious this moment is and how dramatic life could be upended in Michigan.

ZELENY: Meeting with women in the Detroit suburbs, Whitmer sounded the alarm about the Supreme Court overturning Roe versus Wade as fallout ripples across the country from courts to campaigns. It is suddenly a central issue in battleground governors' races in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania where Democrats say they are the last line of defense from Republican challengers and GOP controlled legislatures pressing for more restrictions.

WHITMER: The most important economic decision a woman makes in her lifetime is when and whether to have a child and this court decision threatens to rip that away from every woman in the country. And it's going to be up to governors and that is why this fight is so important.

ZELENY: Does this issue, you think, overtake other issues, other challenges, head winds that your party was facing.

WHITMER: The inflation has taken a toll. The cost of gas, the cost of groceries. It is tough. But I also know that you take away someone's ability to make their health care decisions, that only compounds the pain that families are going to feel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tudor Dixon, Michigan mom on a mission.

ZELENY: Tudor Dixon is the leading Republican candidate for governor, strongly opposed to abortion rights.

TUDOR DIXON (R-MI), GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, I think on both sides, it energized people. Certainly you have the pro-life people that feel like this is a win and then you have the pro-choice people who want to see something different.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will you sign Reproductive Rights Bill that is in this petition yet.

ZELENY: Abortion rights supporters are collecting signatures to put the issue on the November ballot, a movement under way for months that is catching new fire in the wake of the court's ruling.

SHARON BASEMEN, ABORTION RIGHTS SUPPORTER: Friday, all hell broke loose. You know, people saying, what can I do to help. We're getting a lot of people who aren't necessarily Democrats coming to sign because they just think it's wrong.

ZELENY: John Murray, a small business owner of a baby and children's store said he will sign the petition because it is an issue for men as well.

JOHN MURRAY, SMALL BUSINESS OWNER: If you have a daughter, if you're married, if you have a sister, if you have a mother, right, like if you don't feel like my wife feels like I'm less of a human right now than you are. She's like you have more rights than I do right now.

ZELENY: A proposed constitutional amendment in Michigan is seen by the ACLU as a test run for other states, navigating the post-Roe world.

LOREN KNOGALI, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ACLU OF MICHIGAN: This will serve as a model for other sort of similarly situated states that really will be a beacon in the midst of a really difficult time for reproductive rights supporters.

ZELENY: That is exactly why opponents of abortion rights vow to fight the ballot initiative in hopes of stopping it in Michigan.

CHRISTEN POLLO, SPOKESWOMAN, CITIZENS TO SUPPORT MICHIGAN WOMEN AND CHILDREN: We will either have a ban on abortion that protects human life, or we will have this anything goes abortion amendment. This is a little bit of a test to see what they could do in other states.

ZELENY: Now organizers of this petition drive have just a few more days to gather enough signatures to put the question on reproductive rights on the November ballot that would enshrine the protection for abortion rights in the state constitution.

This is a test case in Michigan. Supporters will try this in other states across the country as well. It does all but guarantee one thing, this issue will still be front and center come November.

Jeff Zeleny, CNN -- Detroit. (END VIDEOTAPE)

[11:54:51]

NOBLES: Jeff Zeleny, thank you.

Still ahead, an investigation is underway after a 25-year-old black man was fatally shot by police in Ohio. Details about the incident just ahead.

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[11:59:48]

NOBLES: Hello and thank you for joining me. I'm Ryan Nobles in today for Fredricka Whitfield.

Millions of Americans are buckling up for a busy Fourth of July holiday. Right now, huge lines are greeting travelers at airports across the United States. Airlines are predicting pre-pandemic numbers of passengers this weekend. But cancellations and delays are creating frustrating bottlenecks for many.