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January 6th Witness Tony Ornato At The Center Of Dispute Over Credibility; Trump Could Soon Announce 2024 Campaign Launch; Abortion Clinics Prepare For Influx Of Out-Of-State Patients; Summer Travelers Face Flight Delays, Cancellations; Brittney Griner's Wife Doesn't Believe The Maximum Effort Is Being Used To Bring WNBA Star Home; Akron Officers Placed On Administrative Leave After Fatally Shooting Black Man Multiple Times During Chase. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired July 02, 2022 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:30]
JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.
What really happened inside the presidential SUV on January 6th? Here is what we know. Sources within the Secret Service are now backing up explosive testimony from former Trump White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson saying they also heard about a confrontation inside the presidential SUV. According to an account that spread widely across the agency, then President Trump demanded to go to the U.S. Capitol and erupted when the Secret Service refused to take him. This lines up with Hutchinson's sworn testimony.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER AIDE TO WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF MARK MEADOWS: The president had very strong, a very angry response to that. Tony described him as being irate. The president said something to the effect of, I'm the effing president. Take me up to the Capitol now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: That Tony you just heard mentioned there, Hutchinson says that the information was relayed to her by then White House deputy chief of staff Tony Ornato.
CNN's Tom Foreman takes a closer look at Ornato's role inside the Trump White House.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HUTCHINSON: The president says something to the effect of, I'm the effing president. Take me up to the Capitol now.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Cassidy Hutchinson's story of then President Trump lunging at Secret Service agents January 6th spurred a quick denial from the man she says told her the tale, Tony Ornato.
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: According to the Secret Service source, Ornato was saying that this did not happen.
FOREMAN: So who is Tony Ornato? As a high-ranking Secret Service agent, Ornato protected presidents for years. But under Team Trump, he was given leave to be elevated to a new unusual and powerful role, assistant to the president and deputy chief of staff for operations. There he oversaw thousands of employees and worked so closely with the president that "The Washington Post" identified him as one of several people tied to the Secret Service facing criticism for appearing to embrace Trump's political agenda.
Some colleagues are also speaking out. A former communications director for Trump, now a CNN commentator, says she warned Ornato of potential problems before this chaotic clash of protesters at the White House in 2020. Only to have Ornato deny the conversation ever occur.
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: He is someone I don't -- I know to have been dishonest in the past.
FOREMAN: Ornato also disputed talking about moving Vice President Mike Pence from the Capitol during the January 6th attack, spurring another colleague to tweet, "Tony Ornato sure seems to deny conversations he's apparently had. Those of us who worked with Tony know where his loyalties lie." For now, Trump is defending Ornato and his service.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: These are great people. They've devoted their lives to it.
FOREMAN: And blasting the hearing.
TRUMP: And I think they were very embarrassed by it because it makes them sound terrible.
FOREMAN: But the January 6th Committee, which has spoken with Ornato, does not seem as impressed. From one member --
REP. STEPHANIE MURPHY (D-FL): Mr. Ornato did not have as clear of memories from this period of time as I would say Miss Hutchinson did.
FOREMAN: And from another, "There seems to be a major thread here. Tony Ornato likes to lie."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: And joining me now CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams and historian Ruth Ben-Ghiat. She's the author of "Strongmen: Mussolini to the Present," which now includes a new epilogue about January 6th. Ruth was also interviewed by the January 6th Committee, we should note, to offer insights about threats to democracy.
And I want to begin with a reminder for our viewers of something that Ruth said last time she was on our program, that turned out to be almost clairvoyant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUTH BEN-GHIAT, PROFESSOR OF HISTORY, NYU: If you're having a coup and you've summoned everybody and you expect to be anointed as the head of a new illegitimate government, you have to be there, and there's a phase in coups, they're violent, they're quick, and then you have your pronouncement of the new order, and so that's why he was trying to get there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: And we have since learned that Trump did try to go to the Capitol on January 6th, but his Secret Service stopped him.
I mean, Ruth, what is your reaction to everything that we learned this week, including this new CNN reporting that seems to back up what Cassidy Hutchinson was saying?
BEN-GHIAT: Yes, it's -- I'm really disturbed, not surprised, about the role of violence.
[16:05:04]
It was very telling to me that Trump's Chief of Staff Mark Meadows who seems to have been like the, you know, the control center of this whole operation, she said that when the violence broke out, he didn't seem concerned at all, and he didn't seem perturbed, and that's because violence was part of the plan. It has to be in a coup. And that's also why Trump wanted the, you know, weapons detectors removed.
And so the other thing that stands out is that not only did he want to be driven there to the Capitol and be at the head of this, you know, violent thug march into the Capitol, but Miss Hutchinson testified that there were conversations about him entering the chamber. And what that says to me was, first, you know, you've neutralized the presidential chain of succession. You were going to do something to Pence, they were hunting Pelosi, Nancy Pelosi, speaker.
And so he was going to also have fixed the problem with the electoral counts because Pence wasn't there, and then he was going to declare himself at the head of this violent mob in the chamber as a legitimate president, and that's where that phase of the coup would have ended. It's extraordinary what we're learning from these hearings.
ACOSTA: What do you think -- I mean, what do you think would have happened had he pulled all of that off? We would just be on the dark side of the moon as a country. We would not know constitutionally what to do it would seem to me.
BEN-GHIAT: Yes, in such moments, you know, you could call out the military, and then you find out how split perhaps the military and law enforcement might be. And -- but he would have been there declaiming that he was the legitimate president creating a constitutional crisis.
ACOSTA: And Elliot, we now know that the committee believes that someone working on behalf of Mark Meadows applied pressure on Cassidy Hutchinson ahead of her testimony. I mean, there's been so many bombshells this week, it's hard to, you know, focus on one. There are too many, but using phrases like he knows you're loyal. Do the right thing, you're on our team. I mean, how significant is all of that, and does any of that amount to witness tampering?
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It actually does, Jim. It does not need to be violent or an actual threat. Simply saying, look, how's it going to be? Are you on our team or not? If the intent is there to corruptly persuade the person's testimony so that you either delay it, prevent it, or influence it. It looks pretty clearly that that's what they tried to do now.
Look, there's a pattern of former President Trump having done this or at least having been alleged to have done this in other circumstances. So, you know, compared to some of the other crimes that folks have talked about in the context of January 6th, seditious conspiracy and conspiracies against the United States, this is far more straightforward to prove where you just have to prove that somebody intended to influence somebody's testimony, and they did.
ACOSTA: And do you think Trump is more at risk of being criminally prosecuted given everything that we've learned over the last week? I mean, in particular, we talked about this with former officer Mike Fanone in the last hour, you know, this talk that Cassidy Hutchinson talked about Trump saying get rid of the magnetometers. I don't care if there are weapons there.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
ACOSTA: So there appears to be a knowledge of danger that was present.
WILLIAMS: Sure. Now, it's funny that you mentioned the magnetometers, Jim. That's the one fact that actually gives Donald Trump a bit of an out because the sentence right before that was I really care about this crowd size and the crowd is not big enough. Get rid of the magnetometers. If charged with that, the president could say look, going back to my inauguration, I was obsessed with crowd size.
So, now look, all of this evidence has been out there for quite some time. I do think the witness tampering is the strongest here, but now that we're seeing it playing out in front of us, I think many people in the public have a hunger for seeing something more than just hearings, and so maybe.
ACOSTA: OK. And Ruth, I mean, we know all too well you're an expert on autocrats. Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony this week gave us a glimpse into how Trump was behaving both before and during the insurrection, and she says she was told that he tried to choke a Secret Service agent or tried to put his hands on the Secret Service agent. He asked for the metal detectors to be removed. Just talked about that with Elliot.
I mean, you know, what do you think about this alleged behavior here compared to other rulers that you've studied?
BEN-GHIAT: Well, this is -- he and his party are behaving in a desperate way, and when autocrats think they're going down, they will do anything -- and we've seen January 6th -- to stay in power. What's really extraordinary is how Trump who came from outside of politics put the GOP in such a state of authoritarian subjection and discipline that the whole party is completely compromised. We're learning from these hearings just how many people were involved.
[16:10:00]
And unfortunately, I think we can expect more extremist behavior, aggressive behavior from the party because they are acting out of fear. They're guilty, and their coup failed, and they've been exposed to the world by these hearings, and so they are -- they're in emergency mode.
ACOSTA: And Elliot, we've been reporting that Trump is apparently thinking about an early 2024 campaign launch. Do you think his entering the race would make it more difficult for Merrick Garland to bring charges against him?
WILLIAMS: No, and here's why. It's already really hard to bring charges against a former president. Some of the things that go into whether to charge somebody is the public interest served by bringing the charges, how confident are you that you're going to win, and sort of like the line in the television show "The Wire," you come at the king, you best not miss.
ACOSTA: Yes. Might that be on his mind?
WILLIAMS: Well, no. That's on Merrick Garland's mind because if you're going to charge a former president of the United States, the risks to the country of acquitting -- sort of not succeeding on the conviction are pretty great, and so they want to be sure that it's a successful case. So whether he runs in 2024 or not, it's a very significant and very challenging case.
ACOSTA: All right. Ruth and Elliot, thank you very much. Appreciate your insights, appreciate the expertise as always.
And now on whether Trump could launch a 2024 bid as we were just talking about, maybe as early as this month, let's go to CNN reporter Gabby Orr. She's with me now.
Gabby, what are you hearing from your sources?
GABBY ORR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Trump has been asking his aides and advisers for the past few months when is the best time for him to jump into the 2024 primary, and what I'm hearing is that he wants to do it sooner rather than later, and when I say soon, Jim, that means it could be as early as this month. He has told people in his orbit that he is eyeing a July announcement.
There had been talks previously that that might happen next week at a Michigan rally. That was scrapped, and now the question is, at what point does this happen, and why is this time line being pushed up? And the reason for that is what we've heard from the January 6th Committee. This looms over Trump and a possible presidential campaign, and he wants to sort of get out in front of that, change the narrative, redirect it back to him, but also put his Republican rivals on notice.
Ron DeSantis every single day is getting more popular with the Republican base, and that's a threat to Donald Trump if he wants to compete in a Republican primary, and so he knows that by getting out there early, beating those other guys to the punch, that could really freeze the field and work to his advantage.
ACOSTA: And to the question I was just asking Elliot earlier, might there be any considerations inside Trump world about trying to get ahead of a Merrick Garland announcement, making it more difficult for the attorney general to prosecute by saying I'm running for president again?
ORR: Well, look, I've heard from Trump sources that they are very surprised by what has been revealed in this public testimony, in these public hearings by the House Select Committee. Actually, more so than they anticipated, and it's obviously something that is on his mind. I mean, last week during the live testimony from Cassidy Hutchinson, he posted more than a dozen, you know, furious rants to his Truth Social Web site.
And so it's certainly something that he's reacting to in real time, and I think this is -- this goes back to Trump sort of always wanting to be his best messenger. He thinks that if he can launch a presidential campaign, get the earned media and sort of the television air time that accompanies that type of announcement that that will help him take control of his image again.
ACOSTA: Yes, put that in the headlines versus all the drops coming out of the January 6th investigation. I'll never forget what I had a Trump adviser tell me one time that, you know, one of the reasons why he wanted to run for re-election in 2020 was to avoid prosecution.
Gabby, thank you very much.
Coming up, a major loss for abortion rights activists in Texas after the state's Supreme Court almost a century old abortion ban from 1925 to go into effect.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:17:57]
ACOSTA: Nearly a century-old abortion ban is now back in effect at Texas. Late yesterday the Texas Supreme Court stayed a lower court's order that had temporarily blocked the state's abortion ban from 1925. Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton who had filed the request for a stay called it a victory and tweeted that the state's pre-Roe statutes are 100 percent, quote, "100 percent good law."
The lower court's initial block had allowed some Texas clinics to resume abortion procedures for up to six weeks into pregnancy despite Roe versus Wade being overturned. A separate Texas law prohibiting abortion is set to go into effect within the next few weeks.
With more states increasing abortion restrictions, some women are forced to travel across state lines just to receive services and it's expected to put a strain on some clinics.
CNN's Adrienne Broaddus has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They come by car and by plane to this Bloomington, Minnesota, clinic opened for its access to transportation arteries connecting Minnesota with states banning abortion.
SHARON LAU, MIDWEST ADVOCACY DIRECTOR, WHOLE WOMAN'S HEALTH ALLIANCE: Some patients may fly, some patients may prefer to drive, and so being near the highways that we are and the airport in Bloomington really gives patients, you know, the most options.
BROADDUS: Now Whole Woman's Health is one clinic bracing to treat more patients with I-35 connecting it to three of the states with the most restrictive abortion laws, including Texas and South Dakota right next door. Planned Parenthood CEO Sara Stoesz is also bracing for an influx.
SARAH STOESZ, CEO, PLANNED PARENTHOOD NORTH CENTRAL STATES: We expect to see a minimum of 10 percent to 25 percent more people coming seeking abortion.
BROADDUS (on-camera): Can you guys handle the increase?
STOESZ: I don't know if we're going to be able to handle the increase. There is already a healthcare worker shortage and we've been struggling with that since the beginning of the pandemic. That hasn't gone away.
BROADDUS (voice-over): And that worries Liz Van Heel.
LIZ VAN HEEL, HAD AN ABORTION 6 YEARS AGO: I actually always thought I'd have two boys.
BROADDUS: Who knows the challenges of seeking this type of health care, even before the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade.
[16:20:08]
Six years ago, Van Heel says she and her husband went in for an ultrasound and left devastated.
VAN HEEL: It was Friday the 13th that my doctor told me the news that this baby was incompatible with life. And that's when I decided I wanted an abortion as soon as possible.
BROADDUS: Van Heel says her unborn baby had a neural tube defect, meaning her baby's brain didn't fully develop.
VAN HEEL: And that diagnosis meant that I would either miscarry at any time, or that moments after I gave birth the baby would die. I knew that continuing to carry a baby that was not compatible with life was not going to be good for my mental health or my emotional health. BROADDUS: The Minneapolis mother who later had a healthy child is
worried women like her will have an even tougher time getting an abortion.
VAN HEEL: That is worrisome. I would be honored to be a resource for anyone that needs it.
BROADDUS: Planned Parenthood says it's hearing from people like Van Heel offering to be a resource for those who live far from airports or don't have cars.
STOESZ: Someone reached out to me who owns a small plane, and she wants to organize a lot of her friends and others around the country who also have small planes and can land in rural parts of the country and can safely transport women to larger urban centers.
BROADDUS: But even for people with transportation, Planned Parenthood expects appointments will be in short supply.
STOESZ: I do think we'll see more use of abortion pills by mail because appointments are going to be difficult to get.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: That was Adrienne Broaddus reporting. My next guest knows all about the chaos after Roe versus Wade was overturned. She's about to move North Dakota's only abortion clinic over the border to Minnesota because her own state has a trigger law going into effect later this month, banning abortions except in cases of rape, incest or saving the life of the mother.
Tammy Kromenaker is the director of the Red River Women's Clinic in Fargo, North Dakota.
Tammy, what's this last week been like for you since Roe versus Wade was overturned?
TAMMI KROMENAKER, DIRECTOR, RED RIVER WOMEN'S CLINIC: Probably the most stressful and hard week of our entire, you know, clinic lives. The day the decision came out, less than a minute later, I had a patient calling to make the appointment -- make an appointment for an abortion, and I had to try and pull myself together and be there for her, and then that patient came in this week. I certainly did not tell her who she was, she doesn't need that emotional labor, but she's somebody I'll never forget. This has just been the most devastating and stressful and daunting week.
ACOSTA: And as you know, not everyone has the means to travel across the border to Minnesota. And in some cases, I guess some women are -- may try to fly to Minnesota because it's the only state that they can get to. What is going to happen to those women who are in those circumstances?
KROMENAKER: Well, you know, we know that women with privilege will always be able to travel somewhere to receive an abortion, but we also had a patient this week in our clinic that was past our gestational limit, and I have never worked so hard to try and find someone care. I literally didn't know which clinics were open. I had to text colleagues and ask, you know, can you see this patient? We finally are getting her out of state.
This is a person who's only flown once, so we are going to support her in her efforts to get out of state. We booked her flight for her. These are obstacles that people without privilege and low-resource folks are going to be facing huge obstacles and it is going to fall on the clinics and the local abortion funds to be that support for these patients, and this just shouldn't be the way the world should be.
Patients shouldn't have to work this hard, providers shouldn't have to work this hard, and funds shouldn't have to work this hard.
ACOSTA: And under one of North Dakota's trigger laws a physician could be charged with a felony for performing an abortion. Are you worried that eventually the laws will target not just physicians but the women themselves? And what about you?
KROMENAKER: You know, we had a patient in this week. We have a form where patients can fill out what concerns them, you know, things like, is this going to hurt? Is this confidential? And a patient didn't mark any of those but wrote in, will I be retroactively prosecuted for having this health care today? And then we had another patient from South Dakota make an appointment who asked literally if she would be stopped at the border. Was it legal for her to leave her state where abortion was illegal?
[16:25:02]
So certainly there's fears from everyone. We could have a rabid zealous prosecutor come after us, but this care is important, and we've been here for a long time, and we're going to continue to fight to provide the care for the patients who need us.
ACOSTA: All right. Tammi Kromenaker, thank you very much -- Kromenaker, I should say, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it. Thanks for spending some time with us.
Pack your bags to hurry up and wait. The biggest travel weekend since the pandemic is here, and there's already chaos at the nation's airports.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:30:05]
ACOSTA: This July 4th weekend is already seeing the most air travelers since before the pandemic. But bad weather and airline staffing issues are plaguing the industry. More than 600 flights have been canceled in the U.S. and thousands of flights have been delayed.
CNN's Camila Bernal joins me from Los Angeles International Airport.
Camila, what are you seeing there on the ground? I hope the passengers there are getting lucky today. CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's not looking
horrible because we've been here on days where it's been really bad. But either way, no one wants to be stuck on a Fourth of July weekend waiting for a delayed or canceled flight.
Things have been running smoothly, though, here at LAX. We checked and there's still only 13 flights that have been canceled out of this airport. But nationwide as you mentioned, more than 600 flights already canceled.
And look, you are going to have longer lines no matter where you are in the country. We've seen the lines get really long at times, and then a little bit shorter.
And that's because more and more people are traveling overall. On Friday, TSA announcing that they screened more than 2.49 million people. That's the highest number that the TSA has seen since February of 2020. Those are pre-pandemic numbers.
The TSA spokesperson tweeting and saying we are back to pre-pandemic checkpoint volumes.
It is incredible. And actually, really nice to see a lot of people out and about traveling more and more.
And it also causes problems, and it also causes delays and cancellations. But a lot of people trying to stay positive.
I talked to one passenger who said that he travels for work, was delayed, but really trying to keep a good attitude about all of this.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say most of all, just the people working at the airport, they try their best to take care of it and accommodate, but nothing too bad. You just end up having to sit at the airport for a while longer, get an extra cup of coffee type of thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERNAL: Now not everyone wants to buy their coffee here at the airport. So a lot of people actually choosing to drive this holiday weekend, despite very high gas prices.
We know that, in comparison to flying, 42 million people are expected to drive this weekend. And 3.55 million expected to travel by plane and 2.42 million will travel by other means.
Clearly what these numbers show is that people are wanting to get out this Fourth of July holiday.
But when it comes to airports, we do know that the next couple of months will be difficult because of those shortages. Airlines say they can't hire enough people to deal with the influx of passengers. So they are telling people just get ready for a difficult summer when it comes to travel -- Jim?
ACOSTA: And do the best you can, as that passenger was saying to you earlier, Camila. Just be as nice as you possibly can to those airline workers who are just doing their best on a difficult situation.
Camila Bernal, thank you very much.
Coming up, a CNN exclusive interview with the wife of American basketball star, Brittney Griner, whose trial is underway in Russia. How she feels about the Biden administration's efforts to bring her wife home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHERELLE GRINER, WIFE OF DETAINED WNBA STAR BRITTNEY GRINER: I don't think the maximum amount of effort is being done because, again, the rhetoric and the actions don't match.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Plus, join Fareed Zakaria as he investigates the relationship between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia. The CNN special report begins tomorrow at 10:00.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:37:57]
ACOSTA: More than four months after the war in Ukraine began, Russian forces have evacuated their garrison on Snake Island.
The tiny island in the Black Sea made news on the first day of Vladimir Putin's unprovoked invasion when a Russian warship seized in the island called on the Ukrainian troops stationed there to surrender promising the Ukrainians to issue this famous response to the Russian warship, "Go "F" yourself."
Ukrainian military officials say Moscow launched air strikes on Snake Island Thursday to destroy the equipment it left behind. The Kremlin says it withdrew from the island as a, quote, "gesture of goodwill" to allow Kyiv to resume its grain exports.
There seems to be no goodwill gesture coming from Russia when it comes to Brittney Griner. The American basketball star went on trial near Moscow Friday for drug smuggling charges.
Prosecutors say she had less than a gram of cannabis oil in her luggage week before Moscow invaded Ukraine. If convicted, Griner faces up to 10 years in prison.
U.S. officials say the Kremlin is using the two-time Olympic gold medalist as a political pawn.
Our Abby Phillip spoke exclusively with Griner's wife about the fight to bring her home.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Tell me about what you've been able to hear from Britney from in time. There was the call that didn't happen. What have you been able to hear from her while she's been in detention?
GRINER: So, I haven't really been able to hear anything that brings me the most assurance about her well-being to that degree because the call would have given me that. So I don't know how well she's doing.
PHILLIP: Do you trust that the maximum amount of effort, is being put forward, to bring B.G. home?
GRINER: No, I don't. And I hate to say that, because I do trust that they're -- the persons working on this are very genuine people. That, I do believe.
[16:39:59]
But I don't think the maximum amount of effort is being done. Because again, the rhetoric and the actions don't match.
When you have a situation where B.G. can call our government, the embassy, 11 times, and that phone call don't get answered? You don't have my trust, at that point, until I see actions that are in B.G.'s best interests.
It would have been in her best interest for her phone calls to have been answered. It would be in her best interest for her to be back on U.S. soil. So until I see things like that, no.
PHILLIP: I know that you've had some conversations with the Secretary of State, and with other officials. But you want to talk to President Biden, right?
GRINER: And the most beneficial thing that I've been told is that you meet with President Biden. He has that power. He is the person that ultimately will make that decision for B.G. to come home.
And so, while everybody else wants to tell me they care, I would love for him to tell me, he cares.
PHILLIP: What do you want to tell him? If you were to sit in front of him, what would you say speaking directly to him?
GRINER: Well, honestly, the first thing is I want to humanize my wife to him.
PHILLIP: There's talk of prisoner swaps being the thing that needs to happen. Is that what you think should be done? Do you think that the administration should say, we will swap who you want for Brittney?
GRINER: To be very honest with you, I don't really listen to much of the talk about the how, in measures of what is necessary to get her home. But if that's what's necessary, then, yes, do it.
PHILLIP: What do you want the world to know that your wife is facing in this so-called trial that she's about to face?
GRINER: That's a really good question. I want people to try and put themselves in her shoes, you know? And just think about the fact that this, you know, this is not a typical system. You're not just walking into a situation where there's a balance of justice.
She's walking into a situation there where the system has 99 percent conviction rate. So in their system, there isn't innocent. It's guilty.
PHILLIP: Have you seen any of the pictures that have been released, this week, of her?
GRINER: I have. I have.
PHILLIP: And what did you think?
GRINER: It was very disheartening, you know? And honestly, I told you, I like to be very frank with my wife and authentic when I do write her, you know?
And I told her, I said, "I saw a picture. And honestly, for a second, I thought you was insane," I said, "And it kind of took me aback."
And so, I told her I was like, "I just want to tell you one thing." I said, "If you are losing your mind, just be gracious with yourself, because you're human, and that's OK. And that when you come back, we will love you back whole."
And I said, "If you aren't going insane, just do me a favor. And just try and keep whatever integrity, you can control, by not allowing them, to depict you, in ways that are not really, your current state," I said.
"So, if you got to put a hoodie on, and cover your head, do it. Don't allow them to try and strip you completely to that degree."
Because, at the end of the day, they're controlling the media, over there. So, I try not to take it as just truth. But it did make me worried.
PHILLIP: Has she had a chance to respond?
GRINER: She did.
(LAUGHTER)
PHILLIP: OK. What did she say?
GRINER: Well, she laughed. She did. She said, "Babe, I promise, I'm not a lunatic, yet." She said, "I haven't completely gone crazy," she said.
But I was very shocked, because when I turned that corner, it was over 100 news outlets with cameras waiting, right there.
PHILLIP: Wow!
GRINER: And she told me that she was also very exhausted because, again, this is not a normal process.
So, B.G. has happened to travel over five hours' round trip, when she goes to court, in a very, very, very tiny cage, with her knees bent, feet up to the ground, because it's not big enough for her to fit in.
So, she is experiencing a lot the days before she walks into court. And so she was just like, "It was just a lot. I was in a terrible mood. My body was hurting. And just, I was shocked, when I turned that corner."
PHILLIP: When she first disappeared back in February, when did you first know that something was wrong?
GRINER: The minute I woke up. It was just too many messages. And the mere that she said, Babe, wake up, wake up, wake up. And I'm like what is going on. And she said, "They have me in this room. I don't know what's going on."
I'm like, "Who are they? What room?
(CROSSTALK)
[16:45:01]
GRINER: And I'm like "Babe? You never use "Babe."
And I was like, "Who are they?" That was like my first question to her. "Who are they and what room?" Once I got the answer to those questions, that "they" were TSA agents.
I called the agent and said you need to get somebody there now. Like, wherever my wife is at, you need to get somebody there now.
PHILLIP: Do you think she's being used as a political pawn by Russia?
GRINER: Honestly, all of this stuff is so new to me. I didn't even understand what a political pawn was for a minute.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: She's an American. She's a black woman. She's a lesbian woman. All of those things. I mean, when you realize kind of the context around that, what did you -- what did you think?
GRINER: It was a big pill to swallow. I just didn't understand it. Like, it felt like a movie for me. I didn't understand these terms, and these words.
And in my mind. B.G.'s just my best friend, you know? So like, I know, she's a big deal. But did I ever think that she could be big enough, to where somebody would want to use her, to get something else? No, you know?
So, it was really hard for me, to grasp that, you know? But then I realized, like, the answer to that question is yes, like, yes.
Can they get something, in return for B.G.? Yes, they can. Are they willing to do that? Yes. And, at this point, I want them to. Whatever you want, please ask?
PHILLIP: There are a lot of families who are going through what you are going through. Paul Whelan is still in Russia. Trevor Reed just returned.
What has your connection been like with those other families of wrongfully detained Americans?
GRINER: They were so loving. I just met, you know, some very genuine broken people, and they were, you know, arms wide open for me for support in any type of way throughout the process.
The first thing they said was, you know, do not be quiet about this. Do not let them forget about your loved one. They will forget about your loved one. We are three years in, we are four years in.
And my heart was breaking hearing it because I prayed to god, you know, three years does not pass by and B.G. is still wrongfully detained in Russia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: And our thanks to Abby for that story.
Coming up, the state of Ohio bracing for more protests after a black man is shot multiple times by police with body cam footage set to be released.
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[16:52:20]
ACOSTA: In Akron, Ohio, some Fourth of July festivities are canceled this weekend as the city braces for protests after the deadly police shooting of a black man. And 25-year-old Jayland Walker was shot multiple times.
Polo Sandoval joins us now from Akron.
Polo, city officials are planning to release some very important body cam police footage tomorrow. What is the family saying about that footage?
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They haven't been able to see that footage quite yet. One of the attorneys has seen it yesterday. He says what he was able to witness in that video, it was an event that he describes as not just, quote, "indescribable but also unspeakable."
Now, in terms of how this all started, this was a Monday just shortly after midnight when Akron police officers tried to carry out a traffic stop, and we've learned from the information available so far that Walker was believed to have been behind the wheel refusing to stop, and then the vehicle chase basically started.
At one point, according to Akron police, officers reported a firearm was discharged from inside that vehicle before the occupant basically bailed out of the car, and the result was a foot chase.
And this is what's key. According to Akron investigators, they're saying that the actions of the suspects caused officers to perceive -- that's the keyword -- perceive that he posed a threat, so they responded with gunfire shooting and killing Walker.
Now, in terms of what we expect tomorrow, again, a portion of that body camera video is likely to be released.
We have heard and seen from peaceful demonstrators, small groups, but very passionate groups that have voiced their concern calling for accountability and for justice as these officers remain on administrative leave.
And ahead of what's expected to be even larger crowds tomorrow, city officials here are bracing for that possibility, including setting up the various pieces of equipment throughout downtown potentially to shut down vehicle access to various roads.
At the same time, as you mentioned a while ago, we also heard from the Akron mayor who says that he canceled one of the Fourth of July festivals that was scheduled for this weekend, saying that it's not the right time for a city-led celebration as this investigation continues, Jim.
And as we heard from many people today, we would absolutely agree with that.
ACOSTA: All right, Polo Sandoval, so much pain there in that community on this Fourth of July weekend.
Thank you very much for that report. We appreciate it.
[16:54:46]
Coming up, a new report that former President Trump is offering to cover legal fees for witnesses in the January 6th committee hearings. The ethical concerns that that obviously raises ahead.
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ACOSTA: All right, get a load of this, a baby bear in a pickle. This week, a cub was spotted in a tree near a North Carolina home with a plastic container stuck on its head.
[16:59:51]
The state wildlife biologist was called to the scene and helped free it. The baby bear was able to rejoin its mother a short time later unharmed.
You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.
