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Experts Abortion Ruling To Hurt Women Of Color The Most; Group Welding Flags of White Nationalist Group March In Boston; NHL's Top Trophy Accidentally Delivered To Wrong House; Secret Service Staffers Back Up Part of Explosive Hutchinson Testimony; Source: Trump Could Announce 2024 Presidential Run This Month; AAA: 42 Million People Will Travel by Car Over the Weekend; July 4 Weekend May See Most Air Passengers Since Pre-Pandemic; Heavy Hail, Thunderstorms Threaten Travel & Celebrations. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired July 02, 2022 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[20:00:00]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN HOST: If you're not ready to buy yet, there's a minuteman missile national historic site in South Dakota where you can tour an underground bunker and silo for free.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: To the capitol --

MATTINGLY (voice-over): A window into a president unhinged on January 6th now backed by CNN sources inside Trump's own security detail.

CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE AIDE: The president reached up toward the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel.

UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: That story was circulating among the Secret Service, and it is in line with what Cassidy Hutchinson testified to.

(CROSSTALK)

NOBLES: The campaign for accountability continues more than a month after the mass shooting in Uvalde. School district police chief, Pete Arredondo, resigns from the city council.

Meantime, it's a hectic holiday travel weekend as airlines struggle to meet post-pandemic demand.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're scheduling more flights than we have people to fly them.

NOBLES: Despite soaring gas prices, a record number are hitting the roads.

The legal battle over abortion is beginning to take shape state by state.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is not over.

NOBLES: The president warns the Republican Congress would ban abortions nationwide.

BIDEN: This is going to go one way or the other after November.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: I'm Phil Mattingly in Washington. Pamela Brown is off today. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

During a blockbuster hearing with the January 6th committee this week, former White House aide, Cassidy Hutchinson, painted a portrait of an infuriated Donald Trump on January 6th, including a vivid account of his behavior in the SUV and demands to be taken to the capitol.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUTCHINSON: The president had the very strong, very angry response to that. Described him as being irate. The president said something to the effect of, "I'm the f'ing president, take me up to the capitol now."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: CNN has spoken with two sources within the Secret Service and they say they also heard about the incident from multiple agents.

The Team Trump has denounced the testimony as hearsay, even though Hutchinson says she's heard the story from White House deputy chief of staff for operations, Tony Ornato, who worked closely with President Trump.

Even before the events of January 6th, "The Washington Post" reported Ornato was among the Secret Servicemembers under criticism for appearing to embrace Trump's political agenda.

The January 6th committee has met twice with him, but the Secret Service notified them he will be made available to testify again under oath.

Cassidy Hutchinson didn't just reveal an account of Donald Trump's alleged fit about not being driven to the capitol. She also testified under oath that Trump knew people were bringing weapons to the capitol on January 6th, and that he didn't fear for his personal safety.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUTCHINSON: I was in the vicinity of a conversation where I overheard the president say something to the effect of, you know, "I don't f'ing care that they have weapons. They're not here to hurt me. Take the mags away"

(END VIDEO CLIP) NOBLES: Joining me is someone with a unique perspective on what we saw over the last seven days, CNN contributor, John Dean, former White House counsel to Richard Nixon.

John, you put a lot of pressure on the committee when you said the surprise hearing earlier this week needed to be a big deal. And then you later said it definitely lived up to that.

As someone who sat in Cassidy Hutchinson's seat during the Watergate hearings, what struck you most about the testimony?

JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: She's a very good witness. She had truth on her side, was conspicuous. She was comfortable in testifying. She obviously has spent some time on the Hill. So to it wasn't a foreign kind of atmosphere.

And she was very good. She was articulate. And clear memory of the episodes that she addressed. So I think she was -- she hit it out of the box, if you will.

MATTINGLY: You know, one of the things -- a name we heard a lot during that hearing is Pat Cipollone, the former White House counsel, the White House counsel at the time.

You've been very clear that he needs to testify. I think the committee's in the process of trying to figure something out. They subpoenaed him last week trying to finish out about privilege issues.

You made clear there's almost a moral requirement that he testify, that privilege shouldn't get in the way if there's criminal conduct, potential criminal conduct.

Walk me through what you mean by that.

DEAN: Well, what I -- my feeling is, this is a man who has taken his oath to the Constitution on at least three occasions when he twice admitted to the bar, once when he became White House counsel. That's a serious obligation.

He's somebody who has shown, as White House counsel in an impeachment trial, a propensity to get confused as to who his client is. His client is the office of the president, not Donald Trump.

[20:05:57]

And he's, as I say, got deeply confused about that during the impeachment trial when he was really representing Trump and forgetting the office that Trump held.

So I think that he -- we know from Cassidy's testimony that Cipollone is deeply knowledgeable about all these events. And he needs to come forward in the name of democracy.

MATTINGLY: Why do you think -- I mean -- in Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony, Cipollone came off as one of the few individuals in the White House, came off well, an individual that came off well. Why do you think he would be reticent to testify?

DEAN: Well, I think he's very concerned about his future. He's got a big family. He's got 10 kids. He practices law. And his practice will involve a lot of people from Trump world.

And he doesn't want to offend them. He wants to -- he wants to have those big retainers.

And he's obviously fearful that if he appears to be testifying against Trump causing problems for Trump, well they won't want to hire him.

So I don't think that's true. I think if he properly represents his client, who's the office of the president, he should come forward and tell what Trump has done to so severely damaged that office.

MATTINGLY: So I want to ask you about a term I hadn't heard since one of the impeachment trials -- they've all blended together at this point. The idea of "inherent contempt."

And that the committee, the Judiciary Committee, if he does not agree to testify, that the House must try and invoke inherent contempt, is what you tweeted here.

Tell people what that is. And two, it was never really considered during the impeachment trial, why should it be an option now?

DEAN: Historically, the House of Representatives gives each of its committees the power to enforce its subpoenas. It's been done historically.

Hasn't been done since the '30s because, in the interim, they started relying on the Department of Justice or bringing civil lawsuits to enforce subpoenas. But this puts you at the mercy of the person you're trying to get a subpoena on.

They control and can influence the lawsuit, how -- when they file it, how complex they make it. And the Department of Justice may or may not enforce the subpoena. We don't -- you're somewhat at their mercy.

They have their own rules in the Office of Legal Counsel as to when a White House witness doesn't have to respond.

So avoid all that. Go to the inherent contempt. It's a simple change of the House rules.

And there are a number of resolutions that have been introduced in each Congress for the House to do it. They could do it in one afternoon. They could resolve this.

And they could strip Cipollone of his leverage which is the threat of a lawsuit.

And you know, they could tell him, we want you up here, you're going to be on camera, and you're going answer all our questions, or you're going to be in contempt of the House. And that can be whatever the rules change it to. Make it $10,000 a day if you don't testify. That will get his attention. That will get him talking in front of the committee, too.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Be interesting to watch if it happens.

One thing I wanted to ask you about, at the very end of the hearing, the vice chair, Wyoming Republican Liz Cheney, described a pattern of potential witness tampering that, quote, "raises significant concern."

One witness said they were told that Trump was, quote, "thinking about you. That he knows you're loyal and hopes here doing the right thing."

Witness tampering is a federal crime. But this also sounds very much the way Trump universe has operated for decades now.

Do you think there's a case to be made that that's what's happening here?

DEAN: Well, they obviously have evidence of efforts right now that have already gone on. I suspect there's much more than Liz Cheney revealed.

And they're watching this very closely. It's a very serious crime. And I think the Department of Justice might want to have in its pocket some offenses where they can get witnesses talking. And this is exactly - because it's a serious crime.

And if these people are intervening on Trump's behalf and they're also potentially good witnesses, that can bring them forward certainly at the Department of Justice level, whether they'll help the committee or not.

There's -- there's certain inherent strains between the committee and justice. For example, in Watergate, the prosecutor didn't want me testifying, but I wanted to educate the public. Same thing's going on right now. You have these conflicts.

So I think, again, back to inherent contempt solves those problems.

MATTINGLY: Yes. One of the things -- you know, I've always been struck by people who think Watergate just happened, right? And in fact, it was years and investigations that people kind of poo-poo'd or said didn't matter. People forget the time window of things.

[20:10:01]

It kind of had a moment the last couple of weeks where you think, OK, things are picking up, perhaps people didn't think they would.

In your view, based on what you've heard and what you've seen over the course of the last several months, is this worse than Watergate? If so, why?

DEAN: It's not even comparable to Watergate. Watergate was Nixon cheating with the rules of re-election, trying to get ahead of his clients by -- his competition by getting information illicitly and then covering it up when he got caught.

We're talking about something very different here, with an insurrection that tried to overthrow the government, is 100 times more serious than Watergate.

And Watergate resolved itself nicely. We don't know how this is going to resolve itself.

That's why a witness like Cipollone is so important, to come in, get facts like Cassidy was able to put on the table for this committee and for the public.

So this is much more serious by 100 times Watergate. This could bring our government down. This could bring our form of government, our great experiment in democracy to an end if we don't resolve this properly.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Well, you would know better than anybody else.

John Dean, always appreciate your time, sir. Thank you so much.

DEAN: Thank you, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Those damaging revelations might just drive Donald Trump to declare another run for the White House and soon.

As CNN's Gabby Orr reports, it's all about timing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GABBY ORR, CNN REPORTER: Phil, former President Donald Trump has spent the last few months weighing the best time for him to announce a third presidential campaign.

And our sources tell us that he is leaning toward sooner rather than later. And when I say soon, I mean potentially this month.

Trump's allies have told my colleagues and me that he is closer than ever to taking that step. And he has put his aides and advisers on notice that he may want to launch a campaign before the end of July.

Now Trump had previously considered waiting until after the midterms to toss has hat into the 2024 primary. But there are three reasons that timeline has been pushed up over the past week.

For starters, he wants to divert attention away from the January 6th committee, its recent public hearings and bombshell revelations, which some of his allies tell us have been more damaging than they anticipated.

As one source put it, quote, "He knows that if he announces a run for president, he will be center stage again," end quote.

Trump also wants to put his potential Republican rivals on notice by beating them to the punch with an early 2024 announcement. And there's no one that applies to more than Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who would likely be Trump's top rival in a Republican primary.

And third, Trump wants to capitalize on this moment where President Biden's approval ratings have reached new lows and Americans are concerned about the current direction of the country.

Of course, voters would also likely have serious concerns about Donald Trump's personality and his prior behavior while in office. But he seems to think that economic concerns will triumph and drive a desire for change -- Phil?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: Thanks, Gabby Orr. Great reporting on that.

Now embattled Uvalde school police chief, Pete Arredondo, has resigned from his separate position on the city council.

Arredondo has been under fire for the police response to the Robb Elementary School shooting, a shooting that left 19 children and two teachers dead.

Arredondo wrote in his resignation letter, "It's in the best interests of the community to step down as a member of the city council, to minimize further distractions."

Earlier, I spoke to Zach Despart, from "The Texas Tribune." He said people in Uvalde also want Arredondo to resign as police chief.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZACH DESPART, POLITICS REPORTER, "THE TEXAS TRIBUNE": Since the shooting, many of them had expressed disappointment in Arredondo's conduct during the shooting. They had expressed disappointment that the city has not been forthcoming in releasing records about what happened.

Many of them today were grateful that finally chief Arredondo had stepped down from his position on the city council. Of course, many of them also want him to step down from his actual full-time job, which is the police chief of the schools' police department.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Arredondo had been elected to the Uvalde city council on May 7th, just weeks before the massacre.

Coming up next, Vice President Kamala Harris emerging as one President Biden's top messagers of reproductive rights as the abortion battle takes shape.

Also ahead, the search underway for missing crew members after a ship breaks into two during a typhoon near Hong Kong.

[20:14:48]

And a fiery crash during an airshow. This one happened on the ground. The stories coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: This holiday weekend may be the busiest for U.S. airlines since the pandemic slowed the world to a crawl. More than 3.5 million people are flying this Fourth of July long weekend.

But with bad weather, staffing shortages, all airlines have had major problems. At last check, more than 600 flights have been canceled, and nearly 5,000 delayed.

AAA says about 42 million Americans are hitting the road. That would be a record for the Fourth of July weekend. One glimmer of good news. The national average price of gas is down about 14 cents a gallon from the record in mid-June.

Let's check with CNN's Camila Bernal. She's in Los Angeles at LAX.

Camilla, what are you seeing now in the airports? Everybody's a little nervous going into this weekend.

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Phil. Thankfully, today, Saturday, has been more calm than yesterday and really the last couple of days. Nonetheless, passengers are being told to get here early. They say they need extra time to go through security and get bags checked in.

[20:20:03]

That's because a lot of people are flying on this holiday weekend. In fact, TSA saying they screened more than 2.49 million people on Friday. That's the highest number they've seen since February of 2020.

The spokesperson for the TSA saying we are back to pre-pandemic checkpoint volumes.

I mean, they are amazing numbers when you talk about how many people are flying on this holiday weekend. And it could be a good thing.

But the problem is that the airlines just cannot keep up with the influx of people. They say they have shortages of staff from all sorts of levels. And a lot of that they say then causes delays and cancelations.

I talked to one passenger who told me that he's been traveling for work, had one delay, but is trying to keep a very good attitude about all of this.

Here's what he told me --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say most of all just the people working at the airport, they try their best to take care of it and accommodate. But nothing too bad. You just end up having to sit at the airport for a little longer, get an extra cup of coffee type of thing. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BERNAL: Now not everyone is as positive. But of course, there are some cases that are a lot worse.

And even the Delta Pilots Union saying they share the frustration of a lot of passengers who are just upset about delays and cancelations.

They're currently in the middle of contract negotiations. They are protesting the slow progress as they negotiate.

They say they need better pay, retirement, just work benefits and in general work and job security. But they do say they're tired, and they are frustrated.

The airlines, though, saying it's not just the pilots. They also say there are shortages in air traffic controllers, for example.

And so when you add all of these things up, it just translates to problems and headaches, not just this holiday weekend but the entire summer.

So a lot of these passengers are going to have to prepare for difficult travel and possibly a lot of headaches -- Phil?

MATTINGLY: I feel like if we all had that guy's perspective that you interviewed, we'd probably be in a much better world at this point.

Camila, I am co-opting that dude's energy and taking it with me for the remainder of this weekend.

Camila Bernal, great reporting as always. Thank you so much.

All right. Severe storms could threaten some plans this Fourth of July weekend.

Meteorologist Karen Maginnis takes a look ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAREN MAGINNIS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Across the Deep South, showers and thunderstorms coming up for Sunday. Also monsoonal moisture across the interior west and the four corners region with severe weather into the northern tier.

As far as weather-related delays are concerned, taking a look at the forecast weather delays for Sunday, Atlanta, major airport could be impacted by afternoon and evening thunderstorms.

Where you see the yellow, Minneapolis, Albuquerque, Denver, you're looking at fairly minor delays, maybe 15 minutes or 30 minutes during those afternoon storms.

All right, should be a beautiful forecast for Boston, 83 degrees, mostly sunny. It looks like all across the Florida peninsula showers and thunderstorms. It's just typical for July. And as we look across the central U.S., temperatures in the mid 90s,

upper 90s. It's just going to be a hot forecast there.

A little bit of wet weather possible in Seattle. Los Angeles looking pretty good. Salt Lake, a hot forecast there, as well, 96 coming up.

All right, the fireworks forecast. This is for everybody at that 9:00 hour. Raleigh could see some thunderstorms. Atlanta the same. Elsewhere, we're looking at some pretty fine weather through the Midwest.

Also for Los Angeles, 62 degrees. Denver, I think you'll be fine with 75 degrees. Maybe a couple of showers around Seattle. And that temperature around 9:00 p.m. should be close to 60 degrees.

Phil, back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: Thank you so much, Karen.

Now one piece of good news if you want to avoid travel. You don't have to go anywhere to enjoy the Fourth of July. Stay with CNN for coast- to-coast fireworks and incredible music from some of the biggest stars. Celebrate "THE FOURTH IN AMERICA" live Monday at 7:00 p.m. Eastern.

[20:24:15]

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What essentially has happened is the statement has been made that the government has a right to come in your home and tell you as a woman and as a family what you should do with your body.

We also know that we've had a history in this country of government trying to claim ownership over human bodies.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE; Exactly. Yes, that is right.

HARRIS: And we had supposedly evolved from that time and that way of thinking. So this is very problematic on so many levels.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Vice President Kamala Harris there drawing comparisons between abortion rights and slavery.

Now experts say the Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade will have negative impact on women of color the most. I want to bring this Charles Johnson, the founder 4Kira4Moms. It's an

organization fighting to reduce maternal mortality. And Linda Goler Blunt, the president and CEO of the Black Women's Health Imperative.

Linda, I want to start with you.

When you first heard the ruling, when it was made public the decision, what crossed your mind?

[20:29:54]

LINDA GOLAR BLUNT, PRESIDENT & CEO, BLACK WOMEN'S HEALTH IMPERATIVE: Well, Phil, the first thing that I thought about was my mother and how devastated she would be if she were still alive, to think that all she fought for had come to this and had been overturned and women lost these rights that she fought so hard about.

[20:30:00]

But then I thought about what's going to happen to maternal mortality rates. For black women, they could increase it by as much as 33% and 21% for women overall.

And we know poverty rates will go up, probably 15 to 20 percent, because the single cited reason -- most of the reason women make for having to choose abortion is because they can't afford to have the child. But I'll tell you, the other thing that really breaks my heart is to think about all these young girls 9, 10, 11, who are going to grow up with this sort of constant message that women somehow can't be trusted to make the best decisions for their own health, care, and bodies.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You know, Charles, this is obviously something that's very personal to you. I want to ask you about that in a little bit. But on the issue of maternal mortality, you know, there are studies that show some type of correlation, as it relates to abortion, the U.S. already has one of the highest maternal mortality rates in the developed world. I think black women are three times more likely to die while giving birth than white women.

You know, what's your sense right now in terms of what needs to be done on the policy level, particularly in these states that already have abortion bans in place or trigger laws? What needs to be done to try and address? What is clearly a significant problem and was before the decision actually even came down?

CHARLES JOHNSON, FOUNDER, 4KIRA4MOMS: Sure. Certainly, Phil, so you know, like you said, what we know is this, is that, you know, in our country, women are being failed. And that during the pandemic in 2020, those already horrendous numbers actually increased by 40 percent. And the racial disparities, particularly for black women, giving birth actually widened by 19 percent.

So to force women into having birth, in a country where they are already unsafe, and where they're being failed time and time again, and this is women from all walks of life, but particularly black women, it is a true violation of human rights.

With that being said, I think that on the state level, states have got to step up to the plate, and either take progressive steps to make sure that they are a haven for women that would like to make certain choices. And, you know, my hope is that we will, you know, be able to stand up on a national level, but the states will step up to the plate as well.

MATTINGLY: You know, Linda, on the issue of, you know, if women in these states, if black women in the States, minority women in the states want to get an abortion, they are going to have to travel, it seems pretty clear at this point in time.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, average cost of traveling by car, including appointment cost, gas, you know, what you're looking at in a situation like this, you can see right there $1,214 by car, $1,479 if you're going by plane. What are the answers here when the economics don't line up for being able to do something like that for some of these women?

BLOUNT: You know, it's really a shame in a country like the U.S. that spends more on health care than any other developed country, that it comes down to how much money the patient has in order to get the best possible care, because you're right, traveling is going to be out of the question for a huge percentage of women who need abortion care.

So there are a couple of things that the black woman's health imperative for doing one raising money and raising funds for abortion funds to help pay for those travel costs, childcare, food, lodging, these things that you mentioned, but also looking at extra-legal approaches, such as sourcing, emergency contraception, Plan B medication, abortion, to figure out a way to get that to women, because to be honest, most women will not be able to travel, they won't be able to leave their jobs or their families. So we've got to figure out a way to bring the care to them where they are.

MATTINGLY: Charles, I want the last question go to you because, again, I've mentioned this at the top, but this goes beyond just abortion, right, just previously spoken at length on CNN, how you believe race played a role in your wife's death after doctors failed to heed your warnings about deteriorating condition after she gave birth.

You know, when you compound racism in health care, lack of abortion access, again, there are studies that that kind of try and get this, but it's a very different world than when those studies were done. Where does this end up? You know, what are we looking at in months or years ahead?

JOHNSON: You know, and, Linda, and I just have so much respect for the work that Linda and so many other women, particularly black women-led organizations have been doing for decades on this front. But it's painful to think that we are in a situation where we are going to see in addition to these other barriers that women oftentimes black men will have to turn to dangerous alternatives. And so the reality of the situation is, I want to just -- let me just say this. Nobody wants to have an abortion. But it is up to us as a country to make sure that when certain choices are made, that we provide a safe, equitable way for people to do, what it is they choose, and they feel is right for themselves and their families.

[20:35:22]

And, you know, my hope is that this -- we will not see this compound and already horrific problem, you know, forcing women into a system, as you said, that is statistically documented to be racist, and has had ridiculous medical outcomes historically on people of color, particularly women of color, are seeing the worst of it. So it's an imperatively important that we as a community, as a country, step up to the plate, and make sure that we, you know, protect women's rights do what they feel is best for their body.

MATTINGLY: Charles Johnson, I appreciate your time. I appreciate your willingness to tell your tragic personal story. Linda Goler Blount, thank you so much for your time and your perspective, guys. Thanks a lot.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

All right. You're live in the CNN Newsroom. A group carrying white nationalist flags marched through Boston today. And it comes just weeks after members of the group called the Patriot Front were arrested in Idaho. CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem joins me live, next, with more on the group and what exactly they're doing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:40:35]

MATTINGLY: The mayor of Boston is denouncing an afternoon march through downtown. This is video posted on Twitter from the Real Mac Report that shows people holding flags, bearing the symbol of the white nationalist group, Patriot Front. They're followed -- they followed the path of the city's Freedom Trail.

And Boston Herald reports there's at least one scuffle and cites the Boston Police Department is saying an African-American man was injured. A few weeks ago, police arrested 31 men near a pride event in Idaho. Police say they were tied to the Patriot Front, and we're plotting to riot.

I want to bring in Juliette Kayyem, she's a CNN national security analyst and a former assistant Homeland Security Secretary. Juliette, what can you tell us about this group specifically?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes. So Patriot Front, like we learned when they got out of that U-haul in Idaho is sort of subset or a knock-off of the more violent white supremacist groups that we're starting to hear of now in terms of January 6, Proud Boys and others. That doesn't make them not dangerous. It's just that their real focus is on performative. Look at me, I'm going to wear this sort of khaki, preppy, geeky outfit masked myself. And it's sort of it's very -- it's quite performative. They are -- they are -- they can be dangerous, but what they're doing is they are showing up in places where there will be a disruption. And they want us to note that disruption, even though they didn't do anything that any more than just 30 guys showing up in khaki pants.

The reason why they're doing this, and we've had a problem with them in Boston before and other groups, it's twofold. One is the fights that we're having politically about where does this end, right, as America can become more radical or less radical get played out in these groups as well. And so they're all trying to one up each other. Because we don't know if their better days are ahead. Or their better days are behind them.

I'm of the school that their better days are behind them. And that what's happening now is you're seeing sort of the last gasp of organizations that can't get money and can't recruit easily. So that's why we're seeing this.

So the other is just in light of what's happening in the -- in the legal sphere. The ad -- I would say the radicalization in blue states are showing up in blue states is a little bit of a taunt, I think. I think it's a -- I think it is aggressive behavior in areas like Boston that are liberal, but then are seeing what's going on around the world -- around the country. And the sort of extreme conservatism that's taking over parts of the country. So that's what we're seeing right now in terms of domestic radicalization.

But once again, I'm of the school that these are -- these are groups that do not have a way forward to grow. And that is, I think, the success of a number of efforts that we've seen legally. And I hope, you know, sort of just Americans being sort of sick of it.

MATTINGLY: Yes, and are apparently so proud of their cause that they can't show their faces. I do want to read --

KAYYEM: Exactly.

MATTINGLY: -- a statement from Boston mayor, Michelle Wu, quote, "The disgusting hate of white supremacists have no place here, especially when so many of our rights are under attack. We will not normalize intimidation by bigots, as we mark Boston's legacy as the cradle of liberty. We celebrate the continued fight to expand those liberties for all."

The mayor has vowed to fight for reproductive rights after the Supreme Court overturned Roe versus Wade. She appears to be referencing that here, but this actually gets in something that you just said, which I think is interesting. The volatility, right now, the polarization, right now, the pendulum that I think everybody expected to swing back after the 2020 election hasn't necessarily in any way, perhaps it's gotten worse. What's your sense of that? Because you kind of have an optimistic take about these types of groups. What about more broadly?

KAYYEM: Well, so my optimistic take about these groups is because the more that the language of hate is taken out of the political discourse. I'm not going to be coy here. I think the more that the January 6 commission committee, basically denigrates makes Trump seem like a loser as he's -- as he's clearly as the better off we are, because there is a linkage between the radicalization that we saw in the white supremacist groups and the rise and then -- and reign of Donald Trump. So just -- and that's just factually accurate that just comes from numbers from the FBI.

[20:45:12]

But I do -- I, you know, since the abortion decision came down, although we don't know what's animating this group, but Mayor Wu certainly pinpointed it that rights are under attack. What we have to realize is that it's an untenable position for many of these organizations to allow blue states to just do what blue states are voting to do. So they don't believe in federalism. They believe in a Christian, right-wing rights view of the world of the -- of the country, maybe even the world.

And so this idea that well, we'll let some states like liberal Massachusetts do this, but then we're conservative states like Wyoming will do that. They don't believe it. And so they're going to start to show up in blue states to sort of.

You know, it's a taunt it's a --it's a, you know, it's a -- it's a little bit of, of what I was saying this, it's performative. They know they don't have the voting power here. And I think that that shows them -- I think the very difficult position that the United States is in.

MATTINGLY: There's no question about that. Juliette Kayyem, appreciate your perspective as always. Thanks so much.

KAYYEM: Thank you. Bye.

MATTINGLY: All right. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

And ahead, the NHL's big mistake involving its most precious trophy. The guys who accidentally hosted the Stanley Cup. Join me live coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:50:59]

MATTINGLY: If you're a hockey player, there is one ultimate goal, whether it's peewee or pond hockey juniors or the arenas of the National Hockey League, win it all and hoist the Stanley Cup. Lay your hands on that beloved Stanley Cup trophy. Here's the rub.

You pulled it over your head, you carry it, you see it right there, Colorado Avalanche won the Cup last weekend. And the tradition dictates that each player gets to have it for a day. But the delivery intended for the team captain see him right there. It's botched. And Lord Stanley was delivered by mistake to neighbors who just happened to be our guests in what is by far my favorite story of like the last six months, and has gotten better and better as I've read or watched any of your local interviews, Kit Karbler and Dmitri Rudenko join me now.

Kit, such a great story. Walk us through it, an SUV backs down your driveway, and then what?

KIT KARBLER, STANLEY CUP ACCIDENTALLY DELIVERED TO HIS HOME: Well, Dmitri says to me, there's somebody here to visit and I was like, we're not expecting anybody. It was 6pm. And I had seen the trophy on the newspaper in the morning, and I didn't realize it was going to be in our driveway that day. I had no expectations. But he said, there's somebody here to see you. And then he mentioned something about -- what did he say?

DMITRI RUDENKO, STANLEY CUP ACCIDENTALLY DELIVERED TO HIS HOME: I was in the kitchen at that time. And I see the SUV pulling back, backing up into the driveway. And I had a question for Kit, did you expect anybody? So, he said no. And I see them opening the trunk. And I saw the black case. And I recognize the case because we watched the final games. And we saw them bringing them to the ice.

And I jokingly asked him, Is that the Stanley Cup? And he says yes. So we laughed about it. And, of course, I had -- we think it two. We then went outside and they opened the case and there's Kit.

KARBLER: Well, there, yes -- at that point the sun was shining in pretty good at that time in the afternoon, and our kitchen window faces that. And it literally lit up the kitchen when he opened the back.

RUDENKO: Yes, I don't know what it was. I mean, it gets so bright so fast.

KARBLER: And they were about to bring it in. But I think at some point, they realized they had the wrong address. And I mean --

RUDENKO: I think we're realizing the same time, something's wrong.

KARBLER: Right.

MATTINGLY: Yes. So, I love -- I love the fact that --

KARBLER: I asked if I can hold it.

MATTINGLY: Go ahead.

KARBLER: Go ahead.

MATTINGLY: No, no, go.

KARBLER: Well, I asked him if I could hold it or touch it and whatever. And he said, sure. His name is Phil, he's a really nice guy. You know, he came to the house, and came me out and met my dog. And then the dog went out. So we helped me wrangle up our dog. And that's when we started looking at the Cup. And, you know, I explained to him that that -- the address wasn't correct. And, well, they knew that by them because we live in a pretty modest house compared to the one that they might live in. RUDENKO: Yes, but overall, it was such a fun experience. I mean, we can't stop talking about it. It took quite a while to convince our friends that it's true --

MATTINGLY: You didn't take a selfie. You took -- yes, you took a picture but you didn't take a selfie. Is that true?

RUDENKO: No.

KARBLER: Yes, because I didn't -- I mean it was enough for me to hold it. You feel the engraving and everything. We -- they would have let us pick it up and the dog drink water out or for that matter? I mean, well, I don't know. They were not -- they were that friendly and that (INAUDIBLE)

RUDENKO: That's really nice (INAUDIBLE)

KARBLER: I just wanted to get on its way and I never once crossed my mind to take selfies with it. It -- the picture of it was enough for me. And like he said, our friends didn't believe us. I posted it on next door and they put it under lost and found. Well, that got a lot of attention.

MATTINGLY: Let me tell your friends if they -- if they don't believe you. We are now making very clear, your story is true. You have found the Stanley Cup and given it to its correct your owner. Kit Karbler or Dmitri Rudenko, thank you so much for again my favorite story of this entire week.

[20:55:00]

RUDENKO: Happy Fourth of July.

MATTINGLY: Happy Fourth, guys.

KARBLER: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: The search underway now in the South China Sea for the crew of a ship that broken half. Dramatic video showed one survivor pulled into a helicopter from the ship as he was sinking. Three people were rescued at the fate of 27 others is unclear. The vessel has caught a typhoon and went down about 200 miles southwest of Hong Kong.

I'm Phil Mattingly in Washington. The Nineties starts now.