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Police Not Ruling Out Terrorism As Motive In Copenhagen Mall Shooting; Police Shot Jayland Walker Dozens Of Times As Seen On Bodycam Footage; Criminal Referrals, More Witnesses Expected From January 6th Investigation; Gavin Newsom Attacks DeSantis In New Ad; Fourth Of July Cookout Cost Surges; Surging Home Prices And Interest Rates; Gold Star Father To Receive Presidential Medal Of Freedom. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired July 03, 2022 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:04]

RYAN NOBLES, CNN HOST: Video from China shows a tornado smashing into the country's southern coast. That's just one of the storms associated with a typhoon that hit this weekend. The storm has flooded buildings, ripped off rooftops and uprooted trees. Extreme weather is expected to continue in China through August and experts say that climate change is at least partly to blame.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NOBLES (voice-over): Police not ruling out terrorism as the motive after several people are killed at a mall in Denmark.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They have arrested one person. It's a 22-year-old ethnic Dane they say. They're still looking for other people. The police chief said a manhunt is ongoing because they just don't know if there are any more people involved.

NOBLES: More to come. January 6th investigators teasing new revelations after last week's explosive testimony.

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): There will way more information and stay tuned.

NOBLES: And how the next hearing is set to focus on the mob on the mall.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Who was participating, who was financing it, how it was organized, including the participation of these white nationalist groups.

NOBLES: Meantime, Committee Vice Chair Liz Cheney says criminal referrals could be coming and include the former president.

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): The Justice Department doesn't have to wait for the committee to make a criminal referral. And there could be more than one criminal referral. NOBLES: Police in Akron, Ohio, released bodycam video in the fatal

shooting of Jayland Walker.

BOBBY DICELLO, LAWYER FOR WALKER FAMILY: At the time he was shot more than 90 or 60 or whatever the unbelievable number will be, he was unarmed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: Good evening. Thank you so much for joining us on this holiday weekend. I'm Ryan Nobles in for Pamela Brown in Washington. And you are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

And we begin this hour with the news unfolding right now in Copenhagen, Denmark. Several people are dead after a shooting at a busy shopping mall and police are not ruling out terrorism as a motive.

These are the people who made it out. Now we're going to show you the moment that's believed to show the panic inside as the shooting started. A warning that what you're about to see and hear is upsetting.

(VIDEO CLIP OF MALL SHOOTING)

NOBLES: Denmark's prime minister calls the attack incomprehensible, heartbreaking, meaningless.

CNN's Nada Bashir is following the investigation from our London bureau.

Nada, give us the latest.

NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ryan, the investigation is still very much ongoing. And we are still learning more information about this incident hour by hour. At this stage police have confirmed that one individual has been arrested so far, a 22-year-old Danish man has been identified. And police have said that there is no indication that other shooters were involved, although they haven't been able to formally rule out the possibility of further suspects just yet.

But of course they have confirmed that tragic news that there are several fatalities reported and at least three people have been hospitalized so far, although police have yet to provide any further details on their current conditions. That said, the hospital where these three individuals were taken has said that extra staff were called in to deal with the emergency situation. The incident of course took place during a busy Sunday afternoon at Copenhagen's Fields Mall, a popular shopping center in the city and an area that is very close to one of the city's largest concert venues where pop star Harry Styles had been due to perform this evening.

For now police say they are providing a major presence at the scene as their investigation continues. But the key question remains, what was the motive behind this incident? That is still unclear, although police officials have said that they cannot rule out the possibility that this may have been terror related, although I have to stress that of course this motive is still unclear and the investigation still very much ongoing -- Ryan.

NOBLES: All right, Nada Bashir in London, thank you for that report.

A tense call after police in Akron, Ohio, released disturbing bodycam footage in the fatal shooting of Jayland Walker. The NCAAP held a rally and march this afternoon to city hall. Akron officials and the family of Jayland Walker have asked for peace in the wake of the shooting. Akron native son and basketball star LeBron James tweeted, "Pray for my city today."

Meanwhile, Jayland Walker's family is emphasizing the horrific nature of bodycam footage and said that they're troubled that the officers' statements have not been filed.

[19:05:07]

Akron's police chief said his officers' actions will be scrutinized.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF STEPHEN MYLETT, AKRON, OHIO POLICE DEPARTMENT: They need to be able to articulate what specific threats they were facing and that goes for every round that goes down the barrel of their gun and they need to be held to account.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: Let's go now to CNN's Polo Sandoval. He is live on the ground in Akron.

Now, Polo, you saw that bodycam footage. What can you tell us about it?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you, Ryan, that we have seen that steady flow of demonstrators come and go outside of the police headquarters here in Akron. Many of them frustrated and angered by what they saw in that very disturbing and shaking footage. Mainly that bodycam footage, and, you know, a lot of the questions here have been about this so-called perceived threat that Akron police said prompted the use of lethal force, and today we heard the police chief say that that will likely be for several reasons that the police officers felt the need to open fire.

Really with a barrage of bullets. One of them being that according to investigators, at least a working theory among investigators is that Jayland Walker apparently -- possibly fired at least one round from inside the vehicle during that traffic stop turned vehicle pursuit. And I say possibly because ultimately state investigators will have to definitely say if the evidence supports that theory.

But then shortly after that vehicle pursuit turned into a foot pursuit, that's where the video that we're about to play picks up. It is certainly disturbing. Not just for some but many viewers, as you will be able to see eight officers, eight police officers basically running after Walker after he jumps out of that car wearing a ski mask and then several seconds later that's when the police chief says those eight officers claimed that he went for his waistband and he took a firing position.

Here's the video.

(BODYCAM VIDEO CLIP OF POLICE SHOOTING)

SANDOVAL: Now it's important to mention that at this stage in the investigation almost a week into it, Ryan, both the police department and also the attorneys representing the Walker family say that he was unarmed at that particular moment when police opened fire. So that's really what is infuriating many people here is that perhaps not enough was done to de-escalate the situation after that pursuit turned from a vehicle pursuit to a foot chase -- Ryan.

NOBLES: So, Polo, tell us how the family is reacting to the release of the video and what they saw on the video.

SANDOVAL: I have to say with incredible grace. I had an opportunity to sit down with a cousin of the family yesterday and saying that their focus right now is on honoring the memory of their son. They are also reacting with tremendous patience saying that so far, up to this point, they have been satisfied with the way the investigation has been going in terms of the transparency. That being said, they are still demanding accountability.

If at the end of that state-run investigation, those investigators determined that there is some fault there on the side of the police officers. This is what their attorney, Bobby DiCello, said earlier today immediately following the release of that footage in terms of what they want to see at the conclusion of this investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICELLO: Justice for Jayland looks like this. Accountability and change in terms of the procedures and policies in place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: And again, adding one more note that from what I've heard directly from the Walker family is at this point they are letting the investigation run its course. They say that they have been kept up to speed by investigators and at the same time echoing the plea from Akron city officials for any demonstrations to remain peaceful and that's exactly what we've seen the last few days -- Ryan.

NOBLES: All right, Polo Sandoval, live in Akron, Ohio. Polo, thank you for that report.

And earlier today I talked with a CNN legal analyst and a former LAPD sergeant about the Akron shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHERYL DORSEY, RETIRED LAPD SERGEANT: The question that begs to be asked and answered is, how many rounds did each individual officer fire? And so they're going to have to speak to that. They're going to have to articulate what was the perception of threat and why was it necessary to fire however many rounds each officer fired. And so while we hear the police chief say that this could have potentially been a routine traffic stop, you understand an armed suspect wearing a ski mask is far from routine for officers who are conducting a traffic stop.

[19:10:08]

NOBLES: And we also see, Sergeant, in the video, police using a taser at one point. How do officers make that decision to then turn to lethal force?

DORSEY: Well, it can happen in an instant. And so I don't know what they saw or why they thought that there was a need to use the taser and maybe the taser very quickly became ineffective. People don't understand that a taser generally only has two cartridges and once both are expended, you just have a piece of plastic in your hand and so I don't know what all went into the officers' veering very quickly from the use of a taser to the use of deadly force other than the fact at one point the suspect fired in the officers' direction and could have very well been armed during the foot chase.

NOBLES: So, Areva, police showed what they call a shot being fired from the car as it was being pursued and they then said that a shell casing was found on the highway. How important will this be in the investigation?

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Ryan, I think it's going to very important because we know the standard set by Tennessee v. Gardiner is that basically you don't shoot at a fleeing suspect or an individual unless that individual poses some kind of -- you know, substantial harm to the community or perhaps to the police themselves who are following that individual. So the fact that the police believed that there was a shot fired from the vehicle before Mr. Walker abandoned the car and started running away from the police is going to be used by the police to talk about the state of mind at the time that they used the lethal force.

Obviously I suspect them to say that because of that shot that was fired from the car, that they have still believed he was armed at the time that he started to run away from the police and we also know by the standard set by the Supreme Court the reasonable officer's perception at the time of the encounter --

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBLES: And the Akron Police Union just weighed in with a statement. It called the officers' action justified including, quote, "the number of shots fired."

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM, when we come back, January 6th Committee vice chair Liz Cheney teasing the prospect of a possible criminal referral of the former president. Our Zachary Cohen is live in studio and has a deep dive on the insurrection investigation when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:16:39]

NOBLES: It's been a very consequential past few days for the January 6th Select Committee with the blockbuster testimony from former Mark Meadows aide Cassidy Hutchinson highlights including her accounts of a furious Trump demanding to be taken to the Capitol and his clear understanding that some people in the mob were armed but posed no threat to him.

CNN national security reporter Zachary Cohen joins me now to talk more about what we have ahead of us.

So, Zach, six sessions so far and really this one we just heard from Cassidy Hutchinson has been the one that seems to have broken through the most with much of the American public. Adam Kinzinger talked a lot about Hutchinson and really the great risk she put herself in by coming to speak before the committee. And you and I both report about there was a genuine security risk for Hutchinson that the committee was very concerned about.

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Ryan. And the committee is really after the fact highlighted that point to really point to Cassidy Hutchinson's credibility. Right? And we're at a time now where, you know, some allies of the former president have tried to question her motives, have tried to question whether or not, you know, she had a different reason for appearing.

But the committee has said look, she has no other reason rather than to tell the truth, to show up in public under oath and tell the committee what she told them, and added things, Adam Kinzinger like you said her testimony is inspiring other witnesses to come forward. Take a listen to what he told Dana Bash earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KINZINGER: Yes. Again, I don't want to get into who or any of those details but -- and it's not even just Cassidy. By the way, she's been inspiring for a lot of people. This happens every day. Every day we get new people that come forward and say hey, I didn't think maybe this piece of a story that I knew was important but now that you guys -- like I do see this plays in here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: So, Ryan, I think really what's important about what Congressman Kinzinger said that this investigation still is continuing, right. We've seen six public hearings. But that's not going to be the end of it. They're getting more evidence, more information every day, and more people are coming forward as they put these pieces together. So we'll see what the end result of that is, but that's really what I want to underscore that this investigation is ongoing. NOBLES: Right. I mean, we've reported on depositions taking place on

the day of hearings. That's how much the committee's work is continuing. Now we also heard from the vice chair Liz Cheney today on the results that she expects. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONATHAN KARL, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: So the committee will or will not make a criminal referral?

CHENEY: We'll make a decision as a committee about it.

KARL: So it's possible there will be a criminal referral?

CHENEY: Yes.

KARL: Which would be effectively the committee saying that he should be prosecuted and this is the evidence that we've --

CHENEY: The Justice Department doesn't have to wait for the committee to make a criminal referral. There could be more than one criminal referral.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: And Zach, you and I have done a lot of reporting on this. The first thing, you know, we reported a couple of weeks ago is that most of the members of the committee do believe that Trump committed a crime, that what they're wrestling over is the benefit of whether or not it's worth it to issue a criminal referral to the Justice Department to try and encourage them to go there.

What was interesting is Lawrence Tribe who is one of Merrick Garland's professors at Harvard thinks that he believes that Garland will actually take that step of offering up an indictment. Do you think we're there yet?

COHEN: Well, Ryan, as you know and as the answer has always been only Merrick Garland seems to know the answer to that at this point, right. But the committee has done a really effective job of laying out evidence that not only points to potential criminal actions by Trump on January 6th itself but it ties in his efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

[19:20:03]

So we've seen other criminal investigations. The Fulton County D.A.'s office in Georgia is currently investigating former president Donald Trump for potential crimes related to his efforts to overturn the election results there. So, you know, every month this investigation has proceeded forward and, you know, every day that it continues we get more and more of a fuller picture and the potential for potential indictment of Trump increases every single day.

NOBLES: Yes. And to that point let's go back to Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony. So much has been made about this flap over this narrow portion of her testimony about whether or not Trump actually grabbed the steering wheel or lunged at a Secret Service officer. The one thing that is not in doubt, everyone agrees with, is that Trump was mad and he wanted to go to the Capitol.

I mean, how different would things have been if he'd been successful in that effort to try and get to the Capitol on that day?

COHEN: You know, that's exactly right, Ryan. That's important part from Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony is that Trump wanted to go to the Capitol and join his supporters who he knew were armed, according to the testimony that Cassidy Hutchinson delivered, but he felt didn't pose any threat to him because they were his supporters, right, and it really creates a scenario that is up to the imagination, but "The Washington Post" is reporting that he wanted this sort of TV moment, right.

He wanted him and his supporters on the steps of the Capitol pressuring the Republican lawmakers to follow through with overturning the election by throwing out the electoral ballot results. So, you know, we avoided that situation it seems based on what the Secret Service was able to do that day. But, you know, it's really important to remember that Trump wanted to go to the Capitol and he wanted to be there to pressure Republicans to overturn the election.

NOBLES: And he did stuff like this before, right, when he cleared Lafayette Park so he could walk over in front of the church during that period of time.

So the investigation obviously not over. The next thing we're going to hear about, Adam Schiff confirming today, that the next hearing is going to focus on these right-wing organizations that were there, really kind of spurred on the chaos at the Capitol. How consequential will these hearings be and will it incumbent upon the committee to draw connections between these right-wing organizations and Donald Trump or people that he's associated with?

COHEN: Yes, Ryan. I think this is all part of building that case that draws a line directly from Donald Trump to the violence that happened on January 6th. And, you know, they've done a good job of building that case step by step through the hearings that we've seen so far, and this through the money trail is something that we've heard a lot about over the course of the investigation but hasn't really been featured prominently in the hearings, and you know, it seems like they based on what the committee has been teasing so far.

We're going to hear more about that in the next hearing and , you know, we heard a lot about the former president's connections to people like Roger Stone, to people like Michael Flynn, who have faced criminal scrutiny in the past but, you know, the committee it looks like they're set to maybe draw a direct line between the former president and those people.

NOBLES: And obviously we've focused so much on the violence that took place at the Capitol on January 6th, but what this committee has shown is that they're just as concerned about these efforts to overturn the results of the election both federally and at the state level. What more could we learn about that?

COHEN: That's right. As you talked about earlier, there's actually an ongoing criminal grand jury investigation in the state of Georgia right now. The Fulton County D.A.'s office has been investigating, you know, the former president's attempts to overturn the election results there in Georgia. As we've learned through the hearings, it was really a focus of the Trump effort to overturn the election writ large. Now we could see potential criminal charges come from that but like the question with Merric Garland, we'll have to ultimately see if prosecutors take that step and do indict the former president.

NOBLES: And then of course, against the backdrop of all of this is that Donald Trump may announce that he's running for president again. There's two parts to this question, right. One, how does it affect him politically? But also, is there a legal component to this? Does it make it more difficult for Merrick Garland to push ahead with an indictment if he's the leading candidate for president on the Republican side?

COHEN: That's right, Ryan. With how, you know, how complicated it is to indict a former president think about how it's even more complicated it is to indict someone who's running for president and was also a former president. So there's no question that if Donald Trump announces he's running for president in 2024 that only complicates matters more for Merrick Garland. So we do see this sort of political calculation but also maybe an attempt by President Trump to sort cover himself a little bit by announcing a run for president in 2024.

NOBLES: All right. Zach Cohen, I know you do a good job doing this because I work with you on it every single day. So it's good to see you and thanks for being here on a holiday weekend.

COHEN: Appreciate you having me.

NOBLES: All right.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM, and still ahead, the Golden State governor takes on the Sunshine State governor. New CNN reporting on why California's Gavin Newsom is launching an attack ad on Florida's Governor Ron DeSantis. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:29:00]

NOBLES: The Real Action Team for California Governor Gavin Newsom is out with a new political ad except it's not airing in his home state. It will air on the other side of the country, in Florida on July 4th. The target? Republican governor and rumored presidential candidate Ron DeSantis. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D), CALIFORNIA: Freedom? It's under attack in your state. Your republican leaders, they're banning books, making it harder to vote, restricting speech in classrooms, even criminalizing women and doctors.

I urge all of you, living in Florida, to join the fight or join us in California.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: Earlier I spoke with CNN's Isaac Dovere, one of the reporters who broke this story about what Newsom is up to.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: He says that what he is doing is not running for president but what he's trying to do is get his party to wake up and to be much more aggressive. He said to me the rules of engagement have changed and that there needs to be a different approach that the Democrats take to dealing with Republicans.

[19:29:59]

And he says Ron DeSantis is the target here because Ron DeSantis is the poster child for what Republicans are becoming and what it is in a post-Trump politics. He said, "We're as different as daylight and darkness to me." And he really wants to draw that contrast out and do it as aggressively as possible.

NOBLES: I mean, it's pretty fascinating that Newsom, you know, not too long ago, was facing a recall challenge. He's obviously come out of this even more politically emboldened that he can feel confident enough to run ads in Florida during his own re-election bid. So how's DeSantis responding to all of this?

DOVERE: Well, DeSantis' response is, well, he can light money on fire, if that's what he wants to do, but Newsom is doing this in a very deliberate way. The ad is airing on FOX. It is airing on July 4th. It is very focused on the idea of freedom, of redefining the term into something that Democrats should be talking about, again.

He says -- he told me when we spoke last week that he is worried that Republicans are winning in defining the terms of the debate, and they're winning in what's going on here and he wants to grab that back.

But you're right, a year ago, right now, he was facing a recall and a lot of trouble. Now, things are very different for him.

NOBLES: And also probably, it doesn't hurt that it gets us talking about it as well also.

DOVERE: Obviously.

NOBLES: It's an important strategy. So, obviously now, everybody is thinking, is this all about 2024, which is interesting to think about it because conventional wisdom would say that the frontrunners are Donald Trump and Joe Biden, not these two other guys.

But is this about 2024? Are we seeing kind of the first salvos in that potential battle in a couple of years?

DOVERE: Look, it's certainly it would feel like if Newsom weren't going out of his way to say "No, no, no, no, no," anytime anybody has asked, including me. He says that's not what this is.

But Ron DeSantis, of course, he said, it does look like he's running for President and there is a lot of thinking that DeSantis could be angling to be the alternative to Trump out there.

There is a big fight going on here between the Florida view of the world, the Ron DeSantis view of the world and the Gavin Newsom view of the world and the California view of the world. And so is that the future of the party? Is this going to be 2024? Or 2028? A little preview here? Maybe.

But for right now, it is Gavin Newsom deciding to spend $100,000.00, not a huge amount of money in the context of a re-election campaign. There is a lot of interest in both of these players as potential leaders of the party, and I think it's because it's not just who they are or who they are demographically, but what they are leading, what they are representing in the country.

Ron DeSantis has a very clear governing agenda and Gavin Newsom has a very clear governing agenda. They do not match up at all, and in a country that is divided and trying to figure out which one we are going for, you see that in a lot of ways, we are deciding between a Newsom-style, California-style approach or what is the DeSantis- Florida-style approach.

NOBLES: Well, and still ahead, a look at how much more expensive a July Fourth cookout will cost this year.

Plus, inflation is keeping the American Dream out of reach for so many right now. We'll look at the struggle for people who are trying to buy their first home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:37:05]

NOBLES: The cost of a Fourth of July cookout is way up from last year. The American Farm Bureau Federation says it will now cost an average $69.00, that's up 17 percent from one year ago. Ground beef, chicken breasts, and pork and beans, they're all more than 30 percent. That data was taken from 176 of volunteer shoppers.

Rising interest rates and surging prices are making it harder than ever for people to afford their first home. The interest rate for a 30-year fixed mortgage is now 5.7 percent. That's actually down slightly from the previous week, but one year ago, it was only 2.98 percent.

Meanwhile, home prices keep rising.

David Greene joins me now to talk more about this. He's the host of "The Bigger Pockets Real Estate" Podcast. He's also the author of "Skill: A Top Producing Agent's Guide to Earning Unlimited Income."

David, this is a topic that's got to impact so many of our viewers here today. These rising rates and prices, it is really making it nearly impossible for someone to buy a first home?

DAVID GREENE, HOST, "THE BIGGER POCKETS REAL ESTATE" PODCAST: The first time homebuyers just can't seem to catch a break.

Before when we had low rates, it made homes more affordable so people could pay more for the same house and that led to these bidding wars where the first time homebuyers couldn't really compete. Now that rates are higher, they're often priced out, they can't get pre- approved for the price that they need to pay to compete with people that are either trading up or have a lot of money saved up from different things.

I'm in the Bay Area. We have a lot of tech companies, the IPO, their employees get a lot of cash and then they can go put it into the housing market and the first time homebuyers are kind of getting squeezed. Unfortunately, at that price point until we get more supply in the market, this is probably going to continue.

NOBLES: So David, you say that home prices are even surging in places that were once considered affordable. Here is a look at three different locations in different parts of the country. Home prices in Dallas, Texas expected to rise 22 percent in the next year; Knoxville, Tennessee, they're expected to go up 23 percent; even Roseburg, Oregon, which has a population of 23,000, the cost of a home is projected to increase 20 percent.

I mean, with prices like these and rising interest rates, how can people find affordable places to live?

GREENE: Well, the thing you have to understand about why prices are going up is in those markets, it is often a lack of supply. We're not building enough homes.

So, even as rates go up, if people are sitting around expecting Dallas real estate prices to go down where they can't build houses fast enough for the population, it is not very likely to happen.

Now, the investors, people like me that buy real estate as an investment, this is still working out really good for us because those assets are going to hold their value because there's not enough of them. But for the first-time homebuyer, it's becoming harder and harder.

Our advice for what people should do if they are in that position -- because my heart really goes out to them -- is that they should look at what we call house hacking.

Now, house hacking is this concept where you buy a property, even if the mortgage is higher than you're comfortable with, with the intention of renting out part of that home to someone else.

So maybe you buy a triplex, you live in one of the units, you rent out the other two, the rent you bring in significantly offsets your mortgage. It allows you to save up money, and then in the future, you can maybe sell that house, get the equity and trade up into something that you'd rather live in.

[19:40:20]

NOBLES: My sister and brother-in-law did that exact thing. They bought a triplex, rented out two sides of it and then were able to eventually sell it and make a good profit on it, to get into the home that they're in now.

So rising prices are hitting hard in a lot of areas and it is not just housing. And that's led many Americans to start running up some credit card debt. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTEN HOLT, CEO, GREENPATH CREDIT COUNSELING: People who called us in 2021, on average had about $10,000.00 in credit card debt. People on average calling us this month, it is at $14,000.00.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's significant. That's a lot of money.

HOLT: Yes, so it's like -- it's 40 percent higher than it was last year. Like that, to me is like "Holy cow."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: So the Federal Reserve says now that revolving credit debt, which includes credit cards, hit a record $1.8 trillion. That's up 20 percent. So David, how does this affect the housing market? What does it mean for buyers?

GREENE: You know, when it comes to what you're approved for on your mortgage, it doesn't affect people as much as you might think, and the reason is, when we qualify somebody for a mortgage, we're using the minimum payment on that revolving credit card debt.

So for instance, someone that owes about $20,000.00 in credit card debt, it probably only cost around $100.00 to $200.00 a month against them on their debt. So when it comes to the pre-approval amount, that isn't a big thing. But when it comes to the psychology of the people that are buying houses, no one feels good taking on a whole bunch more debt of a home while they have consumer debt and revolving credit card debt and rates keep going up on those houses where people are expecting either the price to come down or the rates to come down.

So it puts you in this psychologically difficult situation, and I will say this, a lot of people look at houses like stocks. They look at the price of the house and they want to buy low and sell high. And if you're looking at real estate from an investment perspective, that is not the best way to look at it.

Understanding how to analyze a property for cash flow will do a lot more for your wealth building than just trying to buy low and sell high. NOBLES: I live in the Washington, DC suburbs and the prices that some

of these houses are going for, it is just -- it's eye popping. It's incredible.

So David, this is hitting consumers and potential homeowners all over the country. We appreciate you being here, David Greene. Have a very Happy Fourth of July.

GREENE: My pleasure.

NOBLES: And this coming week, 17 great Americans will get the nation's highest civilian honor, the Medal of Freedom.

Next, I'll ask one of those recipients, Khizr Khan, what this moment means to him. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:47:13]

NOBLES: President Biden will award the nation's highest civilian honor, the Medal of Freedom to 17 recipients this week.

This exclusive list includes people like Olympian Simone Biles, US soccer star and activist Megan Rapinoe; Sandra Lindsay, the first American to receive the COVID-19 vaccine, and Khizr Khan, he is a Gold Star father, who famously spoke out against Donald Trump back in 2016.

And we're so pleased that he's our guest tonight. Mr. Khan, thank you so much for being here. Just tell me what does this honor mean to you and your family?

KHIZR KHAN, MEDAL OF FREEDOM RECIPIENT: Ryan, thank you. I'm delighted to be with you.

First, I'm grateful to President Biden and his administration for being champions of diversity and equal dignity, our foundational values of our democracy and of our nation.

We are honored and delighted that an immigrant, a first generation immigrant is considered for this honor and we accept this award on behalf of all of those who have immigrated to this country, and have contributed to the strength of this nation.

We are grateful. It means so very much to us.

NOBLES: So, you of course, first rose to prominence at the 2016 Democratic National Convention. I just want to play a little bit of your speech from that night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KHAN: He wants to build walls and ban us from this country.

[BOOING] KHAN: Donald Trump, you're asking Americans to trust you with their

future. Let me ask you, have you even read the United States Constitution?

[CHEERING AND APPLAUSE]

KHAN: I will -- I will gladly lend you my copy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: As I told you in the break, I was there that night. How has your life changed since that moment?

KHAN: You know, Ryan, we always have been a testament to decency of America. The strength of America accepting immigrants to its shores to this shining city, we are testament to that. We have received some criticism, but amazing love, and amazing respect on flights, shopping malls, streets, restaurants, wherever we have stepped, people have shown their respect and their dignity and an amazing number of letters, flowers to our door without knowing our address, just our name and the name of city with one message, and I'll sum it up in one sentence and that is, "Thank you for telling us your story. Thank you for telling us our family's story, our family that migrated to this country long ago."

So amazing. We have we have remained and we continue to be the testament to the goodness of this country.

NOBLES: And you've also been doing the work. Last year, President Biden appointed you to the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom, what has that experience been like?

KHAN: Amazing. This is an institution that I have come to admire. It assesses the condition of religious freedom throughout the world and then shares the importance of tolerance towards one another. Equal dignity, respect for religious freedom, all faiths are included, so my experience there had been very positive.

We have and we continue to contribute towards the recognition that we are all equal in the eyes of our Creator. We all hold equal respect towards our fates, and our religion and tolerance is the call of the day.

NOBLES: You know, Mr. Khan, I'm sure there's a lot of people watching tonight, who are just feeling like there is so much division in the country right now, that there are so many things that wide swaths of the country just disagree about.

As we prepare to celebrate Independence Day tomorrow, what is your feeling about the future of this country? Do you remain optimistic? And are you concerned about just how partisan and divisive the country is right now?

KHAN: Ryan, allow me, we pay tribute, I know tomorrow is Fourth of July, we pay tribute to our men and women serving, protecting our democracy, protecting our freedom, we pay tribute to their valor. We pay tribute to our veterans and their families, and to all those that have given their all and their families.

They protect us. They protect our democracy. They protect the goodness of this country.

Our democracy is facing challenge not only domestically, but throughout the world, globally as well by our adversaries. This is the time to come together. This is the time to realize our foundational values that uplifts humankind, that uplifts mankind, that uplifts human being to equal dignity; this is the time to come together so that we can all face and convince the world about the goodness about the strength of American democracy and the goodness of America.

I am positive, as I mentioned earlier, that we have become a testament to the goodness of America, to American democracy, to the democratic values, our foundational values of diversity of equal dignity. So we are positive. We are hopeful.

And that is my mission to continue to speak not only domestically, but throughout the world to tell the world that look at American democracy, American rule of law, it uplifts all of us, complete -- this journey is not complete. There is so much more that needs to be done, but still comparing to the rest of the world, we stand for human dignity, for human respect, for equal rights for all.

NOBLES: Well, Mr. Khan, thank you so much. Congratulations on this honor. I'm sure your son is looking down incredibly proud of you and everything that you've done for this country.

We appreciate you being here.

KHAN: Thank you, Ryan.

NOBLES: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:59:19]

NOBLES: As America prepares to celebrate Independence Day, we pause to note a special honor for a World War Two veteran, Hershel Woodrow Williams who passed away last week at the age of 98.

Today, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced that Williams will lie in honor in the Capitol Rotunda once Congress returns to session.

Williams, known as "Woody" was a bona fide hero who served in the United States Marine Corps and fought in the Pacific Theater. He was awarded the military's highest decoration for combat service, the Medal of Honor by President Harry S. Truman in 1945.

It was for heroism above and beyond the call of duty during the Battle of Iwo Jima.

Williams was America's last surviving World War Two Medal of Honor recipient. And thank you so much for joining me this evening.

Don't forget our Fourth of July celebration here on CNN tomorrow night starting at seven o'clock.

I'm Ryan Nobles. "Watergate: Blueprint for Scandal" is next.

Have yourself a very fun and safe Fourth of July.

[20:00:25]