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Parade Shooting in Illinois. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired July 04, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:01]

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: Thank you, both of you, for being here.

We will have much more on this story and on that breaking news.

Thanks for joining INSIDE POLITICS. CNN's coverage continues with Kaitlan Collins right now.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Good afternoon. I'm Kaitlan Collins, in for Ana Cabrera this hour.

We start with a shooting at a July 4 celebration in a Chicago suburb. Police in Highland Park are responding to a shooting at the city's Independence Day Parade. And they have canceled other events that were scheduled for this afternoon.

We will go straight to CNN's Brynn Gingras, who is following the latest developments for us.

And, Brynn, obviously, we are just now learning about this. And it's a very chaotic situation. But what have you learned so far about the details of what happened?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kaitlan, chaotic is probably a good word to describe this, because we're getting multiple reports from different law enforcement agencies.

And what is consistent, it seems like it is still an active shooter situation. So you can imagine the flood of emergency units going to that scene to try to get that situation under control. So we're working to reach out to people that were at this parade. We're getting tweets from people who are actually at this parade.

And what we're hearing and seeing from those reports, are that someone -- one of the -- person told us they heard 20 to 25 gunshots rang out at the beginning of this parade, which started at about 10:00 a.m. Central time. That same person also told us that they believed to see someone who was bloodied and on the ground.

We also know about two local congressman -- or two local lawmakers, rather, that were there. One of them was actually about to march in that parade, was at the starting point. And he actually tweeted this.

This is Congressman Brad Schneider. He said: "Today, a shooter struck in Highland Park during the Independence Day Parade. My campaign team and I were gathering at the start of the parade when the shooting started. My team and I are safe and secure. We are monitoring the situation closely and are in touch with the mayor. Hearing of loss of life and other injuries."

Now, that's what we cannot confirm just yet, Kaitlan, is if there were any fatalities, how many injuries, but, of course, many are being reported, as far as injuries are concerned, at this moment. But we are still reaching out to hospitals to try to get a sense if they have taken in anyone who was injured by any sort of gunshot wounds possibly or any other type of injuries they might be experiencing at area hospitals.

We also know the governor of Illinois is assessing this situation, as well as local state and federal law enforcement agencies, so, again, a very chaotic, as you said, Kaitlan, scene right now in that suburb north of Chicago, as we're all still working to try to figure out exactly what happened at this Fourth of July parade that kicked off about two hours ago.

And it's still a very fluid situation, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Brynn Gingras, thank you so much. And we will check back in with you as you are learning more and confirming some of these details.

Right now, I'd like to go to Miles Zaremski, who was at the parade and heard these gunshots in Highland Park. He is joining us now on the phone from this Chicago suburb.

And, Miles, I'd like to talk to you. What can you just tell us happened? What did you see or hear?

MILES ZAREMSKI, WITNESS: Sure, Kaitlan.

I -- it was a nice day in Highland Park, weather-wise, so I decided to take a walk to the parade. And I was about a half-- block or so from the scene of the carnage, what turned out to be the scene of the carnage, which was Central Avenue, which is the main street in Highland Park.

And the cross-street was Second Avenue, Second Street. Anyway, at first, I heard a pop. And I thought maybe it was a backfire from one of the vehicles that had passed already, fire truck or police car or whatever. And then I thought maybe it was a firecracker. And then there were multiple pops.

And having been in the service many decades ago, it was not a handgun or a rifle or something. It was more like AR-15 or whatever. And I'd say I heard maybe, I'm guessing about 30 pops. And there was a pause in between, a set of pops, and then a second set of pops. And then the crowd that was on either side of Central started rushing, a stampede like -- going West, which is against me.

I was not knocked down. And then I gingerly went up and I saw blood on the sidewalk. I saw a bloodied body that looked deceased. I even saw what looked to be a young child, a boy being cuddled by his parents.

And I just saw it all over. And it was sickening. It was just chaotic. And I'm not going to get into the politics of gun control, but if it can happen in a suburb like Highland Park, which is loving and peaceful and a Chicago suburb, not only can it happen in churches and synagogues and schools, but it can happen in any community.

[13:05:03]

It was just sickening, Kaitlan, and that's probably the best word I can describe to see these people in blood on the ground not moving. Others were injured. How many were deceased, I don't know at this point.

COLLINS: Could you give a guesstimate, Miles, of how many -- what was the police presence on the scene, given, obviously, this was a Fourth of July parade?

(CROSSTALK)

ZAREMSKI: That's a good point.

I'm going to tell you, not only were police vehicles that typically always lead off the parade with fire trucks -- it's part of the Fourth of July parade in Highland Park -- but after it occurred, there were police there within moments, if not actually there.

And there was also paramedic vehicles that were part of the parade too. So I'd say, within moments, within no more than 60 seconds, 90 seconds. And then we had police not only from Highland Park, but the county in which we live, Lake County. There were sheriffs, police with their AR rifles drawn, because it was an active shooter scene.

So it was pretty prompt. But just to hear the pop, pop, pop, and I was told that maybe it came from the roof of one of the businesses at the corner of Central and Second, it was going down as opposed to street level.

So...

(CROSSTALK)

COLLINS: Miles, how long had the parade been going on before you heard these pops?

ZAREMSKI: Right.

I -- the occurrence took place around 10:20 in the morning local time, and the parade typically kicks off at 10:00 a.m. Or a few minutes after a.m. What is very fortunate is that, before the actual parade, I think there's a dog parade with the kids and their parents that go at 9:30.

COLLINS: Yes.

ZAREMSKI: So if that gunman had been there earlier, there would have been mass carnage of young children.

COLLINS: The bike and pet parade that happened at about 9:30.

And when you were there and you immediately heard these pops, you said you could identify that it was a gun. Did it take a minute for other people to understand what was happening, given it's a parade, there's a lot of people around?

ZAREMSKI: Yes, I would say it took 15 to 20 seconds, because I suspect people saw people that were bloodied. And so there was a mass exodus from the site.

And people -- some people, I'm told, were hiding under cars or in the parking lot down the road. So, yes, I have never seen this, and I would hope no American would ever see this. Unfortunately, we have seen it all too often.

COLLINS: And, Miles, where did you go when you started hearing these pops, these gunshots?

ZAREMSKI: Well, having a first aid -- some training, I thought maybe I could help. But then they said, no, please move away. We're cordoning off the area. So I kind of slowly walked away and walked home.

COLLINS: And do you live nearby where the parade route is?

(CROSSTALK)

ZAREMSKI: But I did make first person observation of some of the carnage. And it was gut-wrenching.

COLLINS: How many injuries did you say you saw, Miles?

ZAREMSKI: Oh, I'm going to guess I saw 12 to 24 injuries, and that's purely a guess. And I saw a couple of lifeless bodies on the ground. So, but that's -- I mean, that's a first-person observation. And there may be more.

COLLINS: And, Miles, were these mainly children, families? What kind of people were you standing nearby at this parade?

ZAREMSKI: It was a variety of people that attend the July 4 parade in Highland Park, from little kids with their parents to older people just out for the morning, with a lot of pets. It is a delightful, patriotic, democratic thing to do on July 4. So it was people of all walks of life.

(CROSSTALK)

COLLINS: And, Miles, what does the area look like? Sorry, Miles, to interrupt.

ZAREMSKI: Go ahead, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: What does the area look like nearby? because you said you thought that you may be -- that maybe this was coming from a roof. Are there high buildings nearby? What does it look like in the...

(CROSSTALK)

ZAREMSKI: No, there aren't high buildings.

The building structures in downtown Highland Park are maybe one story, at most, two stories high. And on the corner, I believe the commercial property is only one story high. So they're not -- it's a suburban area that doesn't have at all tall buildings.

COLLINS: So no tall buildings nearby. And we can see -- we're seeing downtown, as this police presence has obviously blocked everything off. They have canceled other events.

ZAREMSKI: Oh, absolutely.

And other events, I'm told, in adjoining suburbs were canceled as well. This is absolutely disgusting.

COLLINS: And how long have you lived in the area, Miles?

[13:10:00]

ZAREMSKI: We moved here after I got out of law school in Highwood in 1973 and then moved into Highland Park, which is an adjoining neighborhood -- suburb south of Highwood, in 1985.

So we have been here about 37 years, something like that. Hello?

COLLINS: Miles, one other question. We're hearing from the governor now, who is saying that they are hearing, Governor Pritzker, that nine people have been reportedly shot at this parade.

Do you think you were standing -- how close were you to the people who were injured? Or did that -- did you have to walk a way a little bit to see?

ZAREMSKI: I was within feet of people that were injured and maybe within 10 feet of two people that I observed lifeless on the ground in a pool of blood.

COLLINS: You saw about 10 people, you said, Miles?

ZAREMSKI: Well, I -- no, well, I probably observed multiple people who had blood on their body from either an injury, and at least a couple of people that were lifeless on the ground in a pool of blood.

COLLINS: And were there ambulances on the scene already or was it mostly just law enforcement?

ZAREMSKI: Actually, there were probably a couple on the scene, but then ambulances coming to and fro.

COLLINS: And, Miles, did you hear a concern from authorities who were there about the fact that they had not located the shooter yet? ZAREMSKI: I had heard from somebody or a couple people, including one

police officer. I said, is this still an active shooter scene? He says, yes, get out of here. So, that's all I can tell you. And that was about 20 minutes after it occurred.

COLLINS: And how many years have you been going to this parade, Miles?

ZAREMSKI: Oh, my gosh.

(CROSSTALK)

COLLINS: I mean, obviously, this is a huge concern.

ZAREMSKI: Living here for 37 years, maybe 32, 33 years. It's just a nice thing to do for an hour or two in the morning on July 4.

Nothing in my lifetime in this community and this area -- and I grew up in Evanston, which is just north of Chicago, has this ever occurred. It's frightening, Kaitlan, to think that you hear these shots and you observe what you have observed. But, unfortunately, it's been happening too often in our country and now in our suburb.

COLLINS: It's very frightening, and especially for those watching. Obviously, there are a lot of Fourth of July parades happening across the country at this moment.

ZAREMSKI: Absolutely. If it can happen in Highland Park, it can happen anyplace, in any law-abiding community.

COLLINS: Miles, we're so sorry this happened to you. We're obviously still learning a lot of details about this. Thank you for joining us to give us some of the details of what you saw and what you heard and witnessed. We will check back in with you.

For the moment, we are going to take...

ZAREMSKI: Thank you, Kaitlan. Pleasure talking with you .

COLLINS: Thank you so much, Miles. We do appreciate your time.

Meanwhile, we're going to take a quick break.

We will be right back, as we are learning more about what has happened at a shooting at a Fourth of July parade in Highland Park, a Chicago suburb.

We will be back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:17:43]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, we were watching, I think it was the band go by.

And I was actually videotaping some of it. But the things that occurred were happening behind me and it kind of timed well with the band. So it seemed like it was just fireworks. And I was thinking to myself -- because I have been here many years. I lived in Highland Park for a very long time, all my life almost.

And I just never saw that much things used to make the fire -- the parade better. So I was thinking, fireworks? Wow. Cool. So instead, then it kept going. I turned around. I'm like, wait a minute, that's not fireworks. I saw things falling off of Ross' roof, like black things.

And I was like, oh, God, this is -- these are not fireworks. So I started feeling -- I was getting hit on my leg. And I didn't know what he was feeling. But I knew I was getting hit everywhere in my leg, my bottom of my body. I got -- I got him to get down on the ground.

But, unfortunately, because it was happening near us, we still were getting hit. So I told him, run inside. We're getting hit by gunfire. So I told him we got to run inside. And we ran inside a Gearhead. And that's when everybody was running inside.

And then we started noticing how many people were bloody. It wasn't just a joke. It wasn't just like, oh, something like a little BB gun or something. It was intense. And people were bleeding everywhere and screaming and crying. And it was just so sad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: We're following this breaking news out of Highland Park, Illinois.

It's a suburb of Chicago, where there has been a shooting at the Fourth of July parade. The governor says nine people have been shot at least. And we are hearing from witnesses about multiple rounds fired and multiple injuries that he also witnessed on the ground.

We're joined now by retired New York Police Department Supervisor Keith Taylor. He's a professor at the Department of Law, Police, Science and Criminal Justice Administration at John Jay College.

Thank you so much for joining us.

And you just heard from Miles, as he was a witness at this parade. He said that he was standing there and that he believes he heard about 20 to 25 rounds fired at this parade and then says he also saw multiple injuries on the ground.

And so I wonder, Keith, what are the first things that authorities are looking for when something like this is happening in such a crowded dynamic as a parade, where obviously, clearly, you just heard from that other witness there, there was a lot of chaos.

KEITH TAYLOR, FORMER NYPD SUPERVISOR: They're looking to find the shooter or shooters and stop them from incurring more violence. They are looking to address the injured and those deceased. They're

looking for more vital evidence that they can use to help them track down exactly how this occurred and who did it and, of course, why.

[13:20:11]

And my condolences go out to the families of those who are killed and injured, because this is an awful, awful thing to have to deal with on the celebration of this country's birth.

COLLINS: Absolutely.

And that's why it raises so many concerns, because, of course, there are so many of these Fourth of July parades happening around the country. I should note we have not confirmed any of the fatalities ourselves. We are still learning more details from authorities.

But when you're someone who's at a parade like this, and there are many going on around the nation -- and you just heard that woman. She said at first they thought, oh, it's fireworks. So they thought it was something parade-related. And then they realized that it was something much more serious.

TAYLOR: A lot of confusion, a lot of frustration and fear, anxiety when you see individuals bleeding and lifeless. It -- individuals could be injured simply from trying to get away from that carnage.

And so I am -- I think that this is going to eventually lead to an investigation to a potential domestic terrorism incident, because this was simply to incur fear in the lives of individuals that were there to just commemorate and celebrate the Fourth of July.

COLLINS: And, Keith, when you hear Miles say,-- says he heard 20 to 25 rounds. He says he previously served. So he believes it was not a handgun. He said it sounded more like an AR-15. Obviously, we haven't confirmed that yet.

But what do you hear from that? And then both Miles and the other woman, the witness who was interviewed, said that they believed it was coming from somewhere up higher, maybe a roof top or something like that. So what do you think of when you hear what those witnesses are saying they believe what's happening.

TAYLOR: I believe that witness testimony, witness information is going to be very important for the investigation, as well as the many videos of this incident that occurred, what individuals saw, anything suspicious that can help the police track down who -- the individuals who are responsible for this.

COLLINS: And how much security is there typically at something like a Fourth of July parade? It's in a suburb, of course.

Miles said there were people on the ground immediately there as soon as he noticed that there were shots being fired. But how much security typically is there for something like a Fourth of July parade? TAYLOR: There's a good amount of security, especially when you have

federal representatives there, you have elected leaders, mayors, and Boy Scouts and all sorts of folks who are there just to be in the parade or to watch it.

And so you're going to have a good amount of security at the local, state and federal level to make certain that these types of situations do not occur.

COLLINS: And when they do occur, you heard Miles saying he tried to help out. He says he's trained in first aid, but is the best advice for people to just immediately leave the situation?

Because you see there is such chaos on the ground. And, obviously, now you can see the massive police presence that's there.

TAYLOR: So, getting away from that scene is going to be imperative.

Once that area has been designated as safe enough for the first responders to attend to the injuries of the wounded, then that can be done. But the primary thing is to lessen the opportunity to be a target for someone who is shooting at a crowd.

COLLINS: And, obviously, this nation is unfortunately no stranger to these shootings. We have seen so many of them happen in Oklahoma and Texas and New York recently.

When authorities in communities are preparing for something like a parade like this, obviously, you want it to all go off as smoothly as planned. How do they prepare now for something like this, potentially given it's unfortunately a reality that everyone has to keep in mind?

TAYLOR: They plan in advance. They have operational plans that they work collectively on, again, state and federal input, using resources that are designed to make certain that, if there are injuries that occur, everything from heat exhaustion to more serious types of injuries, that there will be sufficient resources there to protect and save individuals who are participating.

So it takes quite a bit of planning. And it also includes the intelligence that the government has at the time regarding potential threats to these activities.

[13:25:17]

COLLINS: And there's so many other activities, there's so many of these parades happening across the U.S. today on this Fourth of July.

What's your advice? And what would you say to those who have upcoming parades that they're going to today? Or what kind of warning signal does this send to them?

TAYLOR: I would listen to what our federal intelligence communities are saying.

The Department of Homeland Security less than a month ago released a report talking about increased violence due to extremism. And so that has to be part of the calculations in terms of security for mass gatherings, such as parades as this.

COLLINS: Keith, what else just stands out to you as you're looking at this? We're still learning so much about what's happening on the ground. We haven't confirmed whether or not they have located this shooter yet.

We haven't confirmed how many injuries there have been, just the governor saying he believes at least nine people were shot at this parade at this Chicago suburb. What else are you looking for as we're still trying to confirm the details of this?

I'm looking at the sophistication of the attack itself, if it were something random, where you have people running away, there was some sort of fight, and then they produced guns. You're not seeing that here. So I believe there was a level of planning that indicates that this may have been with a political message of some sort involved, some sort of extremism act for a extremist political message.

COLLINS: And 20 to 25 rounds, what does that tell you?

TAYLOR: We will find out with the investigation.

Sorry?

COLLINS: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

COLLINS: And when you hear people -- Miles, who was a witness who spoke with us earlier, he said he believes he heard about 20 to 25 rounds being fired. What does that tell you?

TAYLOR: That it could have been an automatic weapon. Could have been multiple shooters. It tells me that this was not something that was random, that there was -- 20 to 25 rounds within that short space of time indicates that there was a serious threat to the individuals there.

COLLINS: Yes, Miles said the parade has just been going on for about 20 minutes or so when he first heard the shots that had been fired.

Keith, I want you to stay with us, because we have a lot more to talk to you about.

We are getting new pictures in of injuries that have happened as a result of this shooting that has happened in Highland Park. You can see a woman injured on the ground, bloodied, as someone holds her ankle and grips it.

And you can still see chairs and blankets spread out in the background, as people were obviously sitting, watching this Fourth of July parade before the shooting started.

We will be back shortly with more details as we're learning more. So stay with us on what has been happening at this July 4 parade shooting in a suburb outside of Chicago.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)