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Suspect in Custody after Illinois Shooting; Lily Wathen is Interviewed about the Highland Park Shooting; Terrance Gainer is Interviewed about the Parade Shooting. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired July 05, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: It is July 5th in America. I'm Jim Sciutto.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Erica Hill.

A jarring, heart breaking Independence Day in America after a gunman opened fire into crowds of innocent people, families who had gathered for the Highland Park Fourth of July parade. Highland Park, of course, a suburb just north of Chicago. Those shots left six people dead, dozens hospitalized.

SCIUTTO: It is a sadly familiar event in this country. We know that. But for the victims, of course, it is entirely new. New dead, new wounded, newly fearful, and traumatized.

A 22-year-old male suspect is now in custody. Police called the attack random and intentional. It is difficult, but important to hear the moment that gunfire erupted to begin to understand the terror that people faced. I'll warn you, the video we're about to see is disturbing.

(VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Lord help us.

Personally, I witnessed bursts of gunfire like that before, but only from U.S. military firing positions while embedded with U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. That was on an American street.

HILL: Yes. And those bullets left a number injured, as we mentioned, and dead. The injured ranging in age from eight to 85 years old.

Dr. David Baum was there as the gunfire erupted, saw the immediate aftermath, and jumped in to help.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DAVID BAUM, TREATED SHOOTING VICTIMS AT JULY 4 PARADE: The people who were gone were blown up by that gunfire.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR, "NEW DAY": Blown up?

BAUM: Blown up. Blown up. The horrific scene of some of the bodies is unspeakable for the average person.

Those are wartime injuries. Those are - those are what are seen in victims of war, not victims at a parade.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Except now, sadly, they are seen in victims at a parade.

Following that mass shooting, Illinois Governor JB Pritzker summed up the emotions of experiencing such a tragedy on what was, of course, supposed to be a day of celebration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JB PRITZKER (D-IL): While we celebrate the Fourth of July just once a year, mass shootings have become our weekly, yes, weekly American tradition.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: The numbers back that up. This is at least the 308th mass shooting in this country, this year. We should note, CNN defines a mass shooting as one in which at least four people are shot.

CNN's Josh Campbell and Adrienne Broaddus, they are on the scene in Highland Park.

Now, Adrienne, first to you.

I understand you spoke with the mayor a short time ago. She's telling you she knew the suspect. What do we know?

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jim, she says she remembers this suspect as a quiet little boy. Listen in to some of that conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR NANCY ROTERING (D), HIGHLAND PARK, ILLINOIS: He was a Cub Scout in my Cub Scout pack. So, many years ago he was just a little boy, a quiet little boy that I knew.

It breaks my heart. It absolutely breaks my heart. I see this picture, and through the tattoos, I see the little boy. It's heartbreaking. I don't know -- I don't know what got him to this point. But let's ask that question of so many people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROADDUS: Like so many others, the mayor, who knew this suspect when he was in Cub Scouts with her, she was the pack leader, wondering what went wrong. When I spoke with her, she said a number of things led to what unfolded along this parade route behind us.

She also said that she believes the gun, which my colleague Josh Campbell will talk a little more about here momentarily, was purchased legally with the help of the suspect's father. Now, of course, we are waiting for information from police to confirm

whether or not that is the case. And like so many others I've heard from in this community, not only did she know the suspect's father, the mayor says back in 2019 the suspect's father ran against her in the race for mayor.

[09:05:05]

She was, obviously, devastated when we spoke and she says this could happen any day, in any city. Right now, the city is Highland Park. But she says, and I'm paraphrasing, if this conversation doesn't continue about -- and surrounding stricter gun laws, this will happen again.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: So many Americans this morning grappling with that, the fact that, as they know, with each shooting, the chances increase, that it feels like it could be anywhere.

Josh, there's always talk about were signs missed. What are some of the red flags that you've learned about?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the more and more we're learning about this suspect, we are seeing potential warning signs, particularly as it relates to his online presence. Now, yesterday, as we were covering this story, I was talking with a law enforcement source who sent me some links to some products online and said you need to grab this because we, law enforcement, we're about to take it down.

What we saw was a trove of very troubling posts, including just as an example, the suspect allegedly posting an animation showing what resembles himself, a character, conducting an attack, and showing, you know, bloody scenes. So this type of material online obviously very questionable and raises that question of whether this was one of the same type of shootings that we've seen around the country where there were those warning flags and warning signs that someone should have picked up on in advance.

There's also the question about the weapon itself. Now, as you mentioned, the mayor says that this weapon was obtained legally. In that interview with our colleague Adrienne Broaddus, the mayor talked about that and, you know, talked about the potential origins of this weapon, that the father may have had a role in this. The mayor said, obviously, we're waiting for police to provide some type of information there.

We've seen that in other shootings as well. Just late last year, in Oxford High School, for example, in Michigan, I was just at that school last week doing a story on gun violence. In that case, it was the parents who were alleged to have provided access to the shooter. So a lot of questions there about how this weapon was actually obtained.

We do know, though, that according to authorities, they believe this was the person who came here behind me, on this parade route. One witness describing this as a battlefield, people running for their lives. This person up in a sniper type position. That was followed by a manhunt. Hours later, the suspect taken into custody without incident.

But even though he's off the streets now, there is a lot of work for authorities to do, again, to dig into his background, to try to get to that motive, and then finally to determine, were there other people that he knew that may have known that something was about to happen. A lot of questions there. The work for authorities really just beginning.

SCIUTTO: Goodness. And you look at that police presence there in the aftermath, and during the shooting in fact, and not enough to prevent this.

Josh Campbell, Adrienne Broaddus, thanks so much to both of you.

We should note, next hour, the Highland Park mayor will join us live. Lots of questions to ask.

Joining us now is Lily Wathen. She was at the Highland Park July 4th parade. Her grandfather, one of the dozens of people injured in the attack.

Lily, first of all, I'm sorry you and your family have to go through this. I can see it in your face right now. I can only imagine how you're handling this.

But my first question is - is really just how your grandfather's doing this morning?

LILY WATHEN, GRANDFATHER SHOT AT JULY 4 PARADE: He's doing OK. I was able to see him yesterday. He claims he's not in any pain. He was joking about how he ruined his shirt. So, he's thankfully doing OK.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: We're glad to hear he's doing - he's doing all right.

Look, as time passes, it probably gives you a little bit more time to process what he went through, what so many other people in the community went through.

Can you just give us a sense this morning what is it like for folks in Highland Park, what is it like for people like your grandfather who were there?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

WATHEN: It's still just so shocking to like even process that this happened in our town. Like, you never think that this is going to hit so close to home. And when it happens, it's just so, so shocking and, like, I still can't even, like, believe that that happened. Like, it was -- it was so scary.

SCIUTTO: Where were you when this unfolded? Can you tell us what you saw?

WATHEN: So, I was supposed to be in the parade. So, I was at the lineup. I hadn't started marching yet. I was at the metro station. And then all of a sudden we heard, like, these popping noises and people were saying, oh, it's just fireworks, don't worry, they're just signaling the start of the parade. And then we did see people running at us.

And initially people said, oh, they must have started a race in the middle of the parade because the possibility of what actually happened was just so inconceivable that people just couldn't believe it that a race in the middle of the parade seemed more likely than what was actually happening.

And then, you know, the cops and fire trucks that were lined up by us turned on their sirens and started driving away. And that's kind of when everyone said, oh, like, this is - this is for real. And we started running away, back into the metro station, just as far away as we could.

HILL: And how long did you shelter?

[09:10:03]

WATHEN: I know people who sheltered for hours in place. I ran to my grandma's house, which was just around the block, and we were stuck there for hours. We were there until easily 4:00 p.m.

SCIUTTO: Goodness.

There was, based on the video we've seen, a visible police presence prior to this. Did you see relatively tight security prior to the shooting around the parade?

WATHEN: Yes, for sure. There were, you know, so many cop cars there. There was so many police barricades, fire trucks, ambulances lined up that were to in the parade, that were there as security. It really did feel safe.

HILL: You mentioned, you know, this disbelief, understandably, this morning that this happened in your town, that it actually, you know, sort of -- it happened here.

Do you feel safe?

WATHEN: I would have said so, yes. I -- we never, ever had anything like this before. The most crime I've heard about is maybe a couple burglaries, but nothing ever like this. I would never have even imagined that something like this would happen at Highland Park.

SCIUTTO: This shooter, we heard the mayor just a few moments ago say that the mayor knew the shooter, was a den mother in his Cub Scout group. To have someone, an accused murderer in this case, come from the community, what's your reaction to see that?

WATHEN: Horrified. I mean that, to me, was so, so scary that someone we know, like, people could know other people that have the potential to do this, and they're just, like, our neighbors. Like, that's terrifying.

SCIUTTO: Boy.

HILL: It is - it is a lot to process.

Lily, really appreciate you taking the time to join us this morning. We are relieved to hear that your grandfather's doing better, able to crack some jokes.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: I know there are tough days ahead for you and for your community. Thanks again.

WATHEN: Thank you.

HILL: Well, two police officers were shot during another July Fourth celebration, this time in Philadelphia. We're going to show you the video of people running for safety. They're running down the Benjamin Franklin Parkway -- look at this -- after the gunfire. All this while fireworks from the event, you can see those off the top, were still being seen in the background.

SCIUTTO: Supposed to be a moment to celebrate, a day to celebrate. And, instead, look at the fear there as people run for their lives. The two officers were providing security at that July 4th concert when they were shot. One suffered a graze wound to the forehead, the other hit in the shoulder. We understand neither of those injuries life threatening.

Well, Philadelphia's mayor did not hold back when he addressed the gun violence he's seeing in his city and beyond.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR JIM KENNEY (D), PHILADELPHIA: It was a laid back, chill day. Weather was beautiful. Concert was beautiful. But we live in America, and we have the Second Amendment, and we have the Supreme Court of the United States telling everybody they can carry a gun whenever they want. It's like Dodge City. I mean, so, like, we have to come to grips with what this country is about right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: So far no arrests made in connection to that shooting in Philadelphia. Police are asking anyone with information to come forward.

HILL: Still to come here this hour, Illinois Senator Tammy Duckworth says the gunfire from yesterday's July Fourth parade reminded her of one thing, combat in Iraq. We'll talk to you a little bit more about what we're learning in terms of the gun that was used in yesterday's deadly shooting and how investigators are trying to piece together how and why this happened. HILL: Another story we're following.

The community in Akron, Ohio, still reeling from the police shooting of Jayland Walker, pictured there, who died after sustaining some 60 gunshot wounds. Tensions are high. Protests, though, do remain peaceful. How the Walker family is partially to credit for that. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:18:08]

SCIUTTO: This morning, police are still processing the scene of that mass shooting in Highland Park, Illinois, gathering evidence nearly 24 hours after a gunman opened fire on the crowd.

You know, Erica, we say things like processing the scene. That also means cleaning up after the many victims. You heard the doctor there describe their wounds. It's just a horrific scene on an American street.

HILL: Yes, he described them as wounds of war, not wounds that you would see at a parade.

You can see what was understandably left behind as people fled for safety, fled for their lives. Folding chairs, which you would, of course, bring to a parade. Strollers, bicycles, American flags strewn about, just left where they were yesterday as people ran.

Investigators say the suspect was armed with what they are describing as a high powered rifle.

Illinois Senator Tammy Duckworth, a combat veteran, of course was wounded in Iraq, says the sounds of that shooting in the video remind her of one thing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TAMMY DUCKWORTH (D-IL): The last time I heard a weapon with that capacity firing that rapidly on a Fourth of July was Iraq. It was not the United States of America. We can and we should and we will do better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Want to speak now to Terrance Gainer. He's the former director of the Illinois State Police. He also commanded U.S. Capitol Police. He's now a CNN law enforcement analyst.

Good to have you on, sir.

TERRANCE GAINER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Good morning, Jim. Good morning, Erica.

SCIUTTO: I think it bears repeating because, like the senator, I haven't heard gunfire like that except in war zones. I want to play it again -- again for our viewers. Please take a moment because it's disturbing to hear, but I want to get the chief's reaction.

Have a listen.

(VIDEO CLIP)

[09:20:07]

SCIUTTO: Chief, you have led police departments. Can police sufficiently defend against a weapon that fires that many rounds with that power and velocity in that short period of time?

GAINER: Well, Jim, it's very difficult, but they continue to train to do that. So, you have to be ready for the worst. But in this type of situation, where a sniper goes to a roof, notwithstanding how many law enforcement officers in the area, it is very, very difficult. So I think it goes back to the very problem we've all been talking about, is the availability of that type of weapon on our streets today.

So, the action of the Congress last week, and to try to do some things is a small start, but it's not doing anything to get rid of these high capacity rifles that can cause so much damage.

And I haven't heard that type of sound except in police practice since I was in Vietnam. So, we continue to do the same thing over and over with the same bad results.

HILL: So, staying on that point, doing the same things over and over, the same bad results. As you mentioned, you know, police departments are trying to do more training to deal with this reality, but if the weapons are still there, right, and even if there are -- we know Illinois has some of the strictest gun laws in the state, but there are surrounding states that have different laws. We see that all the time here in the state of New York.

This patchwork approach that we've seen for so long, and as things are changing more with the recent Supreme Court ruling, what does that change? I mean what do you see that can be done differently that could be effect whiff this is what you're up against?

GAINER: Well, absent the federal government doing some national legislation, each state, each jurisdiction has to take that particular aspect on. But then we also need the focus on the mental health aspects, educating parents and friends as to what they need to watch for in others, and also be stronger, have different ways to look at social media where we're trying to balance other constitutional rights. So, it is a very, very difficult task, and the consequences of terrible.

SCIUTTO: I wonder what weaknesses in the training have been exposed in recent weeks. If you look at Uvalde, clearly training did not work there, this idea of quickly confronting the shooter did not happen in Uvalde for more than an hour. Here, the shooter, despite police efforts in the moments following, got away, right? I mean the shooter was at large for a good period of time. Only through perhaps good fortune were there not further shootings following this deadly one here. What holes do you see in the training or is it that officers aren't

following it, or is it that training perhaps can't defend against all these things?

GAINER: Jim, I think the officers who responded to this did a great job. I think the Lake County Task Force, working with the local police department, the Illinois State Police, the FBI, the ATF, really did a great job.

What it -- the -- what appeared to me that the shooter scouted this area out. We now know that he lived just less than a mile or at least had a home less than a mile away, so he knew the area. I think, based on what we've seen so far, he was able to scope where he wanted to go, and what he wanted to do. And that -- from that point, he -- when he left his firearm, that also tells you something about the shooter on his mind, on what he needed to do to get away quickly, leaving the gun there and then exiting. Heck, he was so close to where his -- we know where he lived or his family lived, that he could have walked there. Where his car was or not. So, it would be impossible to try to take care of the people who were being injured. Those 30,000 plus people, and then get police into the alleys and every place to look for him. They closed off the area as quick as they could. The coordination was outstanding. The information we were getting from the spokesman who's a sheriff deputy on the Lake County Task Force was precise, giving out as much information as you can.

HILL: The fact that he did run, right, oftentimes, as we look at these horrific events, the shooter doesn't survive. Sometimes we learn later that that was part of the shooter's plan, right, suicide by cop. We see this come into play a lot.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: Does this tell you, based on what did happen, and that he did run, that this is someone who may be fitting a slightly different profile than what we're used to seeing?

GAINER: Well, the interviews and the interrogation that will go on with this guy will tell a lot more information. And you've got to realize, there's a lot of work still going on in this, as Josh has indicated. So, we'll need to learn more about him. We'll need to learn more about his social network of information, what his family was thinking about, how he got the gun, what we knew about him, and we'll try to fill in the gaps.

[09:25:07]

It's really too soon to say there were holes that we should have seen, but we've got to figure out how to do this better.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: Terrance Gainer, always appreciate your insight. Thanks for joining us this morning.

GAINER: Thank you. HILL: Still to come here, if you are forced with this moment, what do

you do? Do you run? Do you hide? You'll hear more stories from the people who experienced this terror firsthand, faced that split second decision as gunshots rang out at Highland Park's July Fourth parade.

SCIUTTO: They say run, hide, fight. Is that enough?

We are also moments away from the opening bell on Wall Street where U.S. stock futures are down. Markets were closed for the July 4th holiday. All three major indexes ended Friday with gains, factoring into investors' confidence today whether the U.S. will ease tariffs on China, as well as recession fears creeping back in with the Federal Reserve July meeting looming this month.

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